| --- Log opened Fri Apr 17 00:00:55 2015 | ||
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| FourFire | Hello, kanzure what is that context of the topic quote? | 00:08 |
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| archels | .head www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov | 04:46 |
| yoleaux | 200, text/html, 14085 bytes | 04:46 |
| archels | not loading here | 04:46 |
| chris_99 | works here | 04:47 |
| cluckj | works here too | 04:47 |
| archels | it just sits at "connecting..." here, even on wired connection/different PC | 04:48 |
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| kanzure | http://i.imgur.com/efjrGqf.jpg | 05:26 |
| kanzure | http://i.imgur.com/mj5vC8B.jpg | 05:27 |
| kanzure | http://i.imgur.com/vToUXzg.png | 05:27 |
| kanzure | propaganda http://imgur.com/a/UwcaF | 05:27 |
| kanzure | bb8 rolling on to stage http://i.imgur.com/umSzUjp.gifv | 05:27 |
| kanzure | FourFire: george church quote is from george church conference talk | 05:28 |
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| kanzure | another fun selective breeding project would be for shorter duration of sleep in mice | 07:26 |
| kanzure | "How to run far: multiple solutions and sex-specific responses to selective breeding for high voluntary activity levels" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3025687/ | 07:27 |
| kanzure | "The response to uniform selection may occur in alternate ways that result in similar performance. We tested for multiple adaptive solutions during artificial selection for high voluntary wheel running in laboratory mice. At generation 43, the four replicate high runner (HR) lines averaged 2.85-fold more revolutions per day as compared with four non-selected control (C) lines, and females ran 1.11-fold more than males, with no ... | 07:28 |
| kanzure | ... sex-by-linetype interaction. Analysis of variance indicated significant differences among C lines but not among HR for revolutions per day. By contrast, average speed varied significantly among HR lines, but not among C, and showed a sex-by-linetype interaction, with the HR/C ratio being 2.02 for males and 2.45 for females. Time spent running varied among both HR and C lines, and showed a sex-by-linetype interaction, with the HR/C ... | 07:28 |
| kanzure | ... ratio being 1.52 for males but only 1.17 for females. Thus, females (speed) and males (speed, but also time) evolved differently, as did the replicate selected lines. Speed and time showed a trade-off among HR but not among C lines. These results demonstrate that uniform selection on a complex trait can cause consistent responses in the trait under direct selection while promoting divergence in the lower-level components of that ... | 07:28 |
| kanzure | ... trait." | 07:28 |
| kanzure | "Replicated selection experiments of various types provide a powerful way to explore multiple solutions that may occur in response to relatively well-defined types of selection [13–18]. As noted by Mayr ([2], p. 1505), ‘Breeders and students of natural selection have discovered again and again that independent parallel lines exposed to the same selection pressures will respond at different rates and with different effects, none of ... | 07:29 |
| kanzure | ... them predictable’ (but see [19]). Most commonly, experimental evolution approaches begin with replicate populations derived from the same genetic stock, i.e. lines whose ‘gene pools’ are initially identical except for sampling (founder) effects." | 07:29 |
| kanzure | what. there's no way that people start with such an empty gene pool. why would you do that. | 07:29 |
| kanzure | "As one example, Weber et al. [20] compared five replicate pairs of Drosophila melanogaster lines that had been divergently selected with respect to wing shape. They found that 29 loci showed consistent expression differences in all five paired comparisons. However, for a pair of lines that derived from a different base population the significant loci were almost entirely different. Thus, the gene pool of the starting population ... | 07:29 |
| kanzure | ... influenced the evolutionary outcome at the level of gene expression. Weber et al. [20] did not indicate whether the replicate selected lines showed consistent divergences with respect to the trait under selection, i.e. wing shape." | 07:29 |
| kanzure | hah what "Genetically correlated effects of selective breeding for high and low methamphetamine consumption" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1601-183X.2009.00522.x/full | 07:33 |
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| kanzure | why did they take 40 generations for that | 10:35 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding#Mutagenic_varietals | 10:39 |
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| kanzure | "Stickleback fish have both marine and freshwater species, the freshwater species evolving since the last ice age. Fresh water species can survive colder temperatures. Scientists tested to see if they could reproduce this evolution of cold-tolerance by keeping marine sticklebacks in cold freshwater. It took the marine sticklebacks only three generations to evolve to match the 2.5 degree celsius improvement in cold-tolerance found in wild ... | 10:43 |
| kanzure | ... freshwater sticklebacks.[18]" | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_evolution | 10:43 |
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| CaptHindsight | who currently have the fastest DNA sequencer available? | 12:18 |
| kanzure | do you mean "the most parallel"? | 12:33 |
| CaptHindsight | if you want to sequence an entire strand who has the fastest sequencer available? | 12:41 |
| CaptHindsight | like the nanopore only with better accuracy | 12:41 |
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| CaptHindsight | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing#Illumina_.28Solexa.29_sequencing | 13:02 |
| CaptHindsight | "throughput can be multiples of 1 million nucleotides/second, corresponding roughly to 1 human genome equivalent at 1x coverage per hour per instrument" | 13:02 |
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| kanzure | gene_hacker: yo | 13:09 |
| gene_hacker | yo | 13:09 |
| kanzure | i need 2 million mice by tomorrow do you have a person | 13:11 |
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| catern | science trucker | 13:12 |
| gene_hacker | if you were in maryland, they could probably get you some within a day | 13:13 |
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| nmz787_i | gene_hacker: I bought an SEM a few days ago, should need minor work to get it up and running, at which I think it would then be minimal work to get it to be useful for producing photolith masks (or other patterning) | 13:58 |
| chris_99 | ooh, how much did that cost out of interest | 13:58 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/edn-moments/4429862/RCA-demonstrates-electron-microscope--April-14--1940 | 14:00 |
| yoleaux | RCA demonstrates electron microscope, April 14, 1940 | EDN | 14:00 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: $200 | 14:00 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: got the manual too... still waiting on some (partial from what I was told) schematics | 14:01 |
| chris_99 | wow! | 14:01 |
| chris_99 | how much fixing do you think it'll need | 14:01 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: also learned I can get more info if I sign an NDA with the manufacturer... but going to hold out on that unitl I get stuck (if that happens) | 14:01 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: I believe it's just a triangle/saw tooth wave generator and/or an amplifier that need work | 14:02 |
| nmz787_i | so I am thinking of using that DDS generator like nickjohnson was working on (btw nickjohnson, are you selling those?)... or maybe just a DAC and an amp | 14:02 |
| nmz787_i | DDS vs DAC will depend on if the DDS can change quickly enough such that it could be used for patterning, rather than just raster scanning like an old TV | 14:03 |
| CaptHindsight | nmz787_i: post what you need before you sign an nda | 14:03 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: yep | 14:03 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: to be specific, I guess schematics/service-manual for a Jeol JSM-T200 | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | i've posted asking in a few places online already | 14:04 |
| CaptHindsight | nmz787_i: how handy are you with a scope? | 14:06 |
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| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: i'm pretty decent with a microscope, spectroscope, and oscilloscope | 14:09 |
| nmz787_i | i've used a periscope once or twice at a science center | 14:09 |
| CaptHindsight | heh oscilloscope | 14:09 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I've got a 4 channel gigasample Rigol | 14:10 |
| CaptHindsight | worse comes to worse it's so old we should be able to figure out the electronics pretty easily | 14:10 |
| CaptHindsight | https://youtu.be/SWVu-qPR-Ws?t=5m36s shows the board and his schematics | 14:13 |
| CaptHindsight | nmz787_i: http://benkrasnow.blogspot.com/ maybe he can share the schematics ben dot krasnow at gmail | 14:20 |
| cluckj | are you homebrewing an electron microscope? | 14:28 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: ben's who told me about the NDA | 14:46 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: reverse engineering at the least! | 14:46 |
| cluckj | sweet | 14:46 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: I think he will send me photocopies of those schematics, as he received them without an NDA | 14:46 |
| nmz787_i | but he said they were incomplete, at least compared to the NDA-related docs | 14:47 |
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| superkuh | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9396095 - The same end mechanistic outcome as galvanic vestibular stimulation but targeting way further down the chain. | 14:57 |
| nmz787_i | omg google mail is such crap junk sometimes | 15:01 |
| nmz787_i | I can't filter based on a subject having a square bracket (or a literal string for that matter) | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | ugh | 15:02 |
| * nmz787_i facepalm | 15:02 | |
| * nmz787_i hates new-age software | 15:02 | |
| * nmz787_i F-the-cloud | 15:02 | |
| chris_99 | probably faster to download the data from google takeout and just grep it | 15:05 |
| kanzure | deathamphetamine | 15:07 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: that would mean I need to use a different app on all my devices though then, right? since I can't have this filter on my phone, etc | 15:19 |
| nmz787_i | (a new mailing list i'm on doesn't use LIST headers... and there are a ton of replies that are 'I AM OUT OF OFFICE - RESPONSE WILL BE SLOW' kind of mails in reply to the question I just asked about that SEM | 15:20 |
| chris_99 | oh i mean just as a one off thing, you can grab a dump of all your google stuff | 15:21 |
| cluckj | nmz787, mind if I get nosy about it....for science? | 15:22 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: hmm? | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: ask me questions? | 15:24 |
| cluckj | yeah | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | sure | 15:24 |
| cluckj | thanks | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: what did you have in mind? | 15:26 |
| cluckj | I'm not sure yet | 15:26 |
| chris_99 | have you got the SEM already? does most of the stuff power up? | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: I need to pick it up.... was planning to move it into my new house, but that has been delayed for hopefully only 2 weeks... so I need to move it into storage for a few weeks until I get done moving | 15:29 |
| chris_99 | aha, i wonder, what kind of power it draws | 15:29 |
| nmz787_i | they told me they were able to move it with 4 or 5 guys, but I think I'm just going to rent a truck with a lift gate... then after I move the SEM, I'll use the truck to move my house stuff into the storage too | 15:29 |
| chris_99 | wow is it that heavy | 15:29 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: there's some specs here http://www.labexchange.com/nc/en/buy-devices/d/serial/13303/ | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | "100 V, 50/60 Hz, single phase, 2 kVA (basic instrument: 1.2 kVA; attachments: 0.8 kVA). Starting current 60 A (0.2 sec.)" | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | they said they had it hooked up to a 30A breaker and had no problems, though the image was weird due to the weird beam steering signal | 15:31 |
| chris_99 | weird beam steering signal? | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | the beams electromagnets have a triangle wave form, so they start low, ramp up, drop down and start again | 15:33 |
| nmz787_i | this is supposed to drag the beam from (i.e.) left to right, then start again at the left | 15:34 |
| nmz787_i | but the seller said the waveform didn't look right | 15:34 |
| chris_99 | ah, the waveform going to the electromagnets?, they haven't got the video from the SEM working? | 15:36 |
| cluckj | the only question I have off the top of my head is "why?" | 15:38 |
| cluckj | which is kind of the ur-question | 15:38 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: well the video 'works' as far as what the electron beam strikes shows up on the view-screen.... but the electron beam isn't being rastered/scanned over the sample properly | 15:40 |
| cluckj | I'll come up with something less obtuse when I get a chance | 15:41 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: why I am reverse engineering it? why i am learning to repair it? why am i wanting to own one/use one? | 15:41 |
| cluckj | yes | 15:41 |
| chris_99 | ah gotcha, sounds a fun project | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | heheh | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: I want to make micro/nano fluidics for lab-on-a-chip purposes... doing biotech/chemistry on a scale approaching single-molecule... or at least a number of molecules that is trackable (versus bulk reactions where you just assume you have billions/trillions of reactions going on) | 15:43 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: these things are expensive, the service contracts are expensive... if I learn to do this stuff myself I can potentially save myself a bunch of $$$.... on purchasing instruments or getitng them fixed. as a bonus, if I get good at it, I could charge people to pay me to fix their stuff. | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | also I can document the design openly | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | so ya know, people in rural africa with a multi-machine-tool can make their own | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | those tools made into lathes and such out of old engines or something | 15:45 |
| nmz787_i | another benefit is I can teach kids about the 'real world' | 15:46 |
| cluckj | the "real world"? | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | poke their finger, draw some blood, dry it on a microscope slide, throw it in the light-microscope... then into the SEM | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | etc | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | same with plant cells, etc | 15:47 |
| cluckj | so stuff that they can't see without instrument mediation? | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | if i had a SEM when I was a kid... I imagine I'd be a supergenius by now | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | yeah | 15:47 |
| cluckj | lol | 15:47 |
| cluckj | why kids in particular? | 15:47 |
| cluckj | or folks in africa? | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | well the supergenius comment | 15:48 |
| nmz787_i | you can replace africa with me parachuting into the Amazon | 15:48 |
| nmz787_i | with a pocket knife | 15:48 |
| nmz787_i | well, to make it a bit easier it could be a swiss army knife | 15:49 |
| rk[1] | to make it more exciting.. it could be a razor blade | 15:49 |
| cluckj | well yeah you don't want to start building an SEM too much from scratch | 15:49 |
| nmz787_i | one thing i really wonder is about the precision of manufacture the SEM needs/requires... I imagine it's crazy high... but I actually don't know | 15:49 |
| rk[1] | SEM == scanning electron microscope? | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | cluckj: actually the parachuting into the Amazon dream/idea/goal has been with me since the first year I was in Biotech school | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | rk[1]: yep | 15:50 |
| rk[1] | ah. | 15:50 |
| cluckj | there's no documentation of the precision, so you need to figure out how to build one to get the tolerances? | 15:50 |
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| nmz787_i | cluckj: well I at least need to take-it-apart | 15:51 |
| nmz787_i | (and put it on takeitapart.com, of course) | 15:51 |
| cluckj | nmz787_i, lol; what happened to motivate you like that? | 15:51 |
| nmz787_i | 3D scan all the parts or something | 15:51 |
| cluckj | I know that particular feeling, and I can trace it back to like...one moment that it came from | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | uh, money money money money.... moneeeyyyyy | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | idk, life goal | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | what else is going on that's cool this century? | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | ok | 15:52 |
| rk[1] | yeah, i have never used one.. i really want one.. heh. i also belive that i would be a genious if i had one | 15:53 |
| nmz787_i | I was hiking in the himalayas... went from the wet side of Nepal to the dry side (tibetan plateua)... and the ppl were hiking up with cans of kerosene for fuel... the south side had lots of water/rain/moisture, but the north side had none/lack of but lots of solar energy | 15:53 |
| rk[1] | i just got a 10x to 150x digital microscope and i already feel smarter! | 15:53 |
| nmz787_i | so I thought biotech was the best way forward with my goals | 15:53 |
| nmz787_i | lol | 15:53 |
| rk[1] | the best part was, as soon as i got it working on my new machine i thought to myself: "i should test this out on something interesting. so i grabbed a pine needle i recently aqcuired whislt on a walk; sure enough after inspecting it for a minute or so.. i discovered a 0.5 x 1.5mm SCORPION on my desk!! | 15:54 |
| cluckj | I'm not sure I see where that's connected to biotech? | 15:54 |
| cluckj | rk[1], tite. | 15:55 |
| rk[1] | i did some reasearching and seemingly it was a Lacewing larva | 15:55 |
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| nmz787_i | cluckj: engineering of biofuels | 15:58 |
| cluckj | ah | 15:58 |
| cluckj | (sorry, my baby is distracting me!) | 16:02 |
| nmz787_i | it's bored you're not showing it SEM images! | 16:03 |
| cluckj | srsly | 16:03 |
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| nmz787_i | "The University of KwaZulu-Natal in Durban, South Africa, is home to an interdisciplinary Nanotechnology Platform consisting of 4 pillars in Nano Energy, Nano Materials, Nano Health and Quantum Physics." | 16:12 |
| nmz787_i | "We are working on materials for energy applications, specifically on the development of an off-grid refrigeration unit for rural areas in Africa" | 16:12 |
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| nmz787_i | .title http://www.gizmag.com/nanoparticles-wounds-heal-faster/36780/ | 16:36 |
| yoleaux | Nanoparticles help wounds to heal 50 percent faster | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/jid201594a.html | 16:36 |
| yoleaux | Journal of Investigative Dermatology - Abstract of article: Fidgetin-Like 2: A Microtubule-Based Regulator of Wound Healing | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/jid201594a.pdf | 16:36 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fjid.2015.94 | 16:36 |
| cluckj | okay | 16:38 |
| cluckj | probably back for a bit | 16:38 |
| cluckj | what about lab-on-a-chip is interesting to you? | 16:39 |
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| cluckj | <cluckj> probably back for a bit | 16:45 |
| cluckj | <cluckj> what about lab-on-a-chip is interesting to you? | 16:45 |
| cluckj | I was trying to think about the lab-in-a-box the other day and ended up writing about spacetime compression | 16:47 |
| kanzure | such focus | 16:48 |
| cluckj | yep | 16:48 |
| kanzure | typical reasons- cheapness, repeatability, lower reagent volume, less mass, faster hardware iterations (but only in some cases), single cell isolation and related methods, etc. | 16:49 |
| cluckj | also yep | 16:50 |
| cluckj | what I went for was portability | 16:51 |
| cluckj | if you have a tiny lab, instead of having to go out into the "real world" to get samples to bring back to the lab, you can bring the lab with you | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | yeah | 16:54 |
| cluckj | without going into too much of my discipline's theoretical framing, that portability lets a researcher do a different kind of work | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | increased control of the chemistry and reduction in reagent costs are the main drivers for me I guess | 16:55 |
| kanzure | most microfluidic devices are not portable | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | yeah not today | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | there have been a few field-ready devices | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | but they're the minority of publications | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | or the commerical items that have been/are produced are parts of overall much larger systems | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i1 | i.e. the microfludic is tiny, but it requires a big microscope with a big light source and Desktop computer with CRT monitor (non optional) | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i1 | common portable microfluidics would be like... pregnancy tests I guess | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i1 | but they're pretty minimal as far as microfluidic tech goes | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i1 | bbl | 16:57 |
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| cluckj | my blood glucose meter too, I imagine | 16:57 |
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| nmz787 | aww I was just thinking of CaptHindsight | 20:19 |
| kanzure | use .to | 20:30 |
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| nmz787 | hi CaptHindsight | 20:50 |
| CaptHindsight | howdy | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | did you say you would get back to me about something a few days ago?? | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | oh, about deposition with ebeam | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | (or for that matter, enhanced milling even) | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | I imagine you might be able to do directed electrochemistry or something | 20:53 |
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| CaptHindsight | I was thinking about a wider rage of materials | 20:55 |
| CaptHindsight | then I remembered that the main interest here are materials for biomed | 20:55 |
| CaptHindsight | my interests are wider, so nevermind :) | 20:56 |
| nmz787 | ah, well, I'm not averse to learning more | 20:56 |
| nmz787 | nanobots are cool | 20:57 |
| nmz787 | they can be coated for biomed apps ;) | 20:57 |
| nmz787 | or for some other things, space or oil drilling or something | 20:57 |
| nmz787 | fixing my engine by adding nanobot oil | 20:58 |
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| kanzure | catern: welp i'm muted in lesswrong | 21:00 |
| Madplatypus | Me too! | 21:01 |
| Madplatypus | Frankly, Gwern and Burninate are probably going to sort this out the way it's going. | 21:01 |
| Madplatypus | >14) Buy a lobbyist to get the National Fab Lab Network Act of 2010 to go through the House of Representatives, and other motions that are in direct support of open source hardware. The Fab Lab Network Act specifically calls for the creation of 1 fablab or hackerspace per 700,000 U.S. citizens, so approximately 407 community hackerspaces by 2015. $150,000?? | 21:06 |
| Madplatypus | This is entirely an achievable goal. | 21:06 |
| kanzure | sure | 21:06 |
| kanzure | yes, most of our goals are achievable | 21:06 |
| Madplatypus | Well, I mean, more specifically, something I can start working on. | 21:07 |
| Madplatypus | I know people who know people. | 21:07 |
| Madplatypus | And you'd be surprised how far you can take that sort of chain | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | $3k isn't much to /start/ a hackerspace | 21:09 |
| nmz787 | you'd want at least 12 months of rent and utilities | 21:09 |
| CaptHindsight | China announced a similar plan a few years ago. A hackerspace in every larger town ~200 | 21:12 |
| CaptHindsight | the budget was similar ~$200k for each | 21:14 |
| kanzure | Madplatypus: there's a bunch of other projects floating around in here. if there's certain things that you are good at, we can tell you more specific projects. | 21:15 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: whats available? funding, space, equipment, good advice? | 21:17 |
| kanzure | advice, funding, equipment, space, in that order | 21:17 |
| kanzure | space is very hard to do over the internet | 21:17 |
| kanzure | none of you jerks are in the same spot | 21:18 |
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| CaptHindsight | http://www.caspa.com/node/5742 this was an adventure to apply for | 21:20 |
| Madplatypus | Unfortunately I'm not much for programming as of yet kanzure. Learning, but. | 21:21 |
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| kanzure | .title | 21:21 |
| yoleaux | Chinese American Semiconductor Professional Association | 21:22 |
| CaptHindsight | anyone in the channel in China? | 21:23 |
| Madplatypus | There'll be something political/policy/orgnizational for me to do within this community sooner or later, though | 21:23 |
| kanzure | i think the toothpaste person or ParahSailin is in china | 21:23 |
| kanzure | also there's #szdiy | 21:24 |
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| kanzure | but they speak some alien language | 21:24 |
| CaptHindsight | there is a bunch of low cost brand new factory space in Nanjing as well | 21:25 |
| CaptHindsight | 10k sq ft is maybe $500 usd/mo | 21:25 |
| nmz787 | oh $150k for each hackerspace, or $150k for total budget? | 21:25 |
| kanzure | for the person | 21:26 |
| kanzure | this was a project that someone told me about | 21:26 |
| kanzure | probably someone from the fablab group? | 21:26 |
| kanzure | i dunno | 21:26 |
| kanzure | that was 2010 though. that's long gone. | 21:27 |
| CaptHindsight | must be $60M total, not 400 spaces splitting $150k | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | cause $150k / 407 potential hackerspaces ~~ $3k each | 21:27 |
| CaptHindsight | then again that America Makes group in Ohio is a joke | 21:27 |
| kanzure | the money was something about hiring a specific lobbyist | 21:28 |
| kanzure | i should have written down more details | 21:28 |
| CaptHindsight | what do you want built? have a wish list? | 21:30 |
| nmz787 | efficient DNA synthesizer has been my goal for a while... there's a lot of other things that get built along with that effort | 21:30 |
| kanzure | so many things | 21:30 |
| CaptHindsight | yeah the DNA synthesizer is on my list again, I got tired of waiting | 21:31 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/diybio-equipment.yaml | 21:31 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/analytical-instrumentation | 21:31 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/perfusion-equipment.yaml | 21:32 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/comparison/fablab.yaml | 21:32 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/comparison/techshop.yaml | 21:32 |
| CaptHindsight | https://nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system I've been wondering why their system has been so inaccurate | 21:33 |
| kanzure | low mass cnc, space habitats, organ perfusion chambers, pick your poison | 21:33 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf | 21:33 |
| CaptHindsight | making much of this is not really hard, it's dealing with the patents in the west | 21:35 |
| CaptHindsight | in a few years China and Mexico might have better tech than whats in the USA | 21:36 |
| CaptHindsight | just due to patents | 21:36 |
| kanzure | they have their own patent systems | 21:38 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: please define "low mass cnc" | 21:38 |
| kanzure | stewart platform | 21:38 |
| kanzure | did you know that the soviet union had patents | 21:38 |
| catern | i bet i know what this channel will say | 21:39 |
| catern | but | 21:39 |
| catern | if was to take a single class in a "science", what would be the science to pick to maximize usefulness? | 21:40 |
| CaptHindsight | 6th grade general science with a good teacher | 21:41 |
| kanzure | catern: "How to make almost anything" at mit | 21:41 |
| catern | well sadly | 21:41 |
| catern | i'm not at MIT | 21:41 |
| kanzure | don't let that stop you | 21:42 |
| catern | (fug) | 21:42 |
| kanzure | catern: then, a machine shop class of some kind | 21:42 |
| CaptHindsight | never let school stop you from learning | 21:43 |
| catern | kanzure: OK | 21:43 |
| catern | that's a good point | 21:43 |
| catern | I'll do that | 21:43 |
| kanzure | i wonder if mit has online videos of "How to make almost anything" | 21:44 |
| kanzure | i remember fenn either found mit machine shop videos or they were nist educational machine shop videos | 21:44 |
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| catern | well, I'll do that if I can find a machine shop class | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | catern: physics probably... or some lab-mostly class in biotech or semiconductors | 21:49 |
| catern | what physics tho | 21:49 |
| nmz787 | community colleges are the best value | 21:50 |
| catern | and can't I just read the feynman lectures | 21:50 |
| kanzure | and there's always software stuff | 21:50 |
| kanzure | feynman lectures don't make you useful :P | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | if you can only take one class, then it will have to be the one you can get into (either the lowest in the college... or the one you can convince them you're OK to let in to) | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | catern: lab classes are super cheap per hour of experience | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | anything with instrumentation that interests your | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | you | 21:51 |
| catern | just suggest whatever, I can take more than one in this thought experiment if you think there would be prerequisites | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | the only semiconductor class I took was, umm, IC Technology... I made transistors | 21:52 |
| nmz787 | we started with a wafer, spin coated it, exposed it with a photolithography mask, etched it, bombarded/implanted it with ions selected with a mass spectrometer, added some oxide, blah blah, baked for 1.5 hours until it smelled nice, etc... then tested with a microscope and hairlike probe things | 21:53 |
| nmz787 | 'genetic engineering' or 'molecular biology' or 'bioseparatations' or 'analytical chemistry'... lots and lots | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | there are years worth of great lab classes | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | including the computer sciences | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | if it wasn't for the damn strict timelines, I'd probably enjoy school a lot more than I do | 21:55 |
| catern | ok so | 21:56 |
| catern | basically | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | take all the classes | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | basically | 21:56 |
| catern | "whatever you pick, pick a lab class" | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | as a better rule, yes | 21:56 |
| catern | sound advice | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | if you want your money's worth, if you don't care about a degree | 21:56 |
| kanzure | don't pick boring lab classes | 22:04 |
| kanzure | learning to setup a bunsen burner is bullshit, you can watch a youtube video for that | 22:05 |
| catern | true, true | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | i | 22:20 |
| nmz787 | i'm not sure any lab class is just about that sort of thing, unless it's bio or chem 101 | 22:20 |
| nmz787 | and even then it would be like a 5 minute thing at most | 22:21 |
| kanzure | the vast majority of all my lab hours were spent doing really boring stuff | 22:23 |
| kanzure | but that's mostly because from grade 6 through 12 nobody is capable of memory, so they just have you do the same stuff over and over. and then college assumes the same (what i waste of my time). | 22:24 |
| kanzure | s/i waste/a waste | 22:26 |
| nmz787 | the grade i remember least is grade 2, 4, 5 | 22:26 |
| nmz787 | grades | 22:26 |
| nmz787 | I guess it's possible that some schools really suck | 22:27 |
| kanzure | second grade was spent learning german, spanish, knitting, gardening, and candlewaxmaking | 22:27 |
| nmz787 | but I can say that most of the lab classes I chose were cool | 22:27 |
| nmz787 | i did none of those things in 2nd grade | 22:28 |
| nmz787 | I remember the music teacher failing me and my dad (a musician) having to come in to defend me | 22:28 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: what country were you in at the time? | 22:29 |
| nmz787 | TX | 22:30 |
| nmz787 | ? | 22:31 |
| kanzure | i was in texas (usa) | 22:31 |
| nmz787 | everything is bigger in texas, even education | 22:32 |
| kanzure | well second grade was a private school | 22:33 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20060206092258/http://www.austinwaldorf.org/brochure/philosophy2.htm | 22:33 |
| CaptHindsight | he I think I failed science in 7th grade even though I won the city science fair that year | 22:34 |
| nickjohnson | nmz787_i: it's available for preorder :) | 22:53 |
| Taek | <kanzure> don't pick boring lab classes <---- I reiterate this point. Talk to seniors/grads and ask what classes they would take | 23:52 |
| kanzure | hello Taek | 23:58 |
| Taek | hello | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sat Apr 18 00:00:32 2015 | ||
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