| --- Log opened Sat May 09 00:00:06 2015 | ||
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| CaptHindsight | anyone have a list of countries that typically have earlier access to new types of medical device, methods, treatments etc? | 07:42 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | look at the commerce export control list. they have a list of countries that are not allowed to receive certain technologies. | 07:42 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: I consider the USA to be one of the late ones in getting new tech approved... | 07:56 |
| CaptHindsight | I was looking for a list or a report on countries that have FDA equivalents that are influenced more by medical progress than by special interests and corporations trying to keep the status quo | 07:58 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnCKGI7Fnm8&t=8m20s | 08:00 |
| yoleaux | Germany forging technology - YouTube | 08:00 |
| CaptHindsight | I thought that someone here would have found the end runs around the FDA and similar by going through nations in Africa or South America | 08:04 |
| kanzure | ted chiang story http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/ | 08:11 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: there are a bunch of countries that are popular for medical tourism | 08:11 |
| kanzure | specifically, i mean you should be looking for "medical tourism" destinations | 08:14 |
| @fenn | cool video, certainly looks like an automatable process | 08:24 |
| kanzure | http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/Grove_-_433MHz_Simple_RF_Link_Kit | 08:24 |
| @fenn | there are few nations with highly competent health care systems that aren't also subject to corruption of regulatory capture from their strong healthcare industries | 08:26 |
| @fenn | thailand is the only one i can think of atm | 08:27 |
| kanzure | india has been making some progress at least on patents | 08:28 |
| @fenn | progress in which direction | 08:29 |
| kanzure | positie | 08:29 |
| kanzure | positive | 08:29 |
| @fenn | that doesn't help | 08:29 |
| kanzure | they will often slap down a drug manufacturer and force them to price their drugs very low | 08:29 |
| kanzure | "what! but you wouldn't be uploading the person.." "i don't think you understand just how much i'm willing to cut to make things work" | 08:30 |
| @fenn | are these scenes from your screenplay | 08:31 |
| @fenn | mad doktor leitl is confronted in his laboratory by professor hughes | 08:32 |
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| kanzure | both from my forthcoming screenplay and from yesterday logs | 08:33 |
| kanzure | also, dr. overkill is in the room too | 08:34 |
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| MrHindsight | fenn: I was aware of the low cost medicines in Thailand. How are they on medical devices? | 09:12 |
| MrHindsight | say someone has a new piece of diagnostic equipment and just wants to make it available to the world vs having it sat on by regulatory bodies | 09:13 |
| MrHindsight | selling it for other than medial use is one way but most docs won't touch it with a 10ft pole | 09:14 |
| MrHindsight | medial/medical | 09:14 |
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| kanzure | pva film pattern transfer to 3d objects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUhPrAqiY0 | 09:40 |
| kanzure | doctors often wont touch things even if it is legal, so you're safe there | 09:43 |
| MrHindsight | heh | 09:45 |
| MrHindsight | kanzure: there is also flexigraphics, it uses a flexible film that gets pulled by vacuum over the part and then sublimates the image onto the parts | 09:46 |
| kanzure | vacuum seems like it might be more precise | 09:47 |
| kanzure | but water is easier to setup | 09:47 |
| MrHindsight | I've been doing it with inkjet direct to non planar parts for year with a multiaxis inkjet | 09:47 |
| MrHindsight | year/years | 09:47 |
| MrHindsight | the problem with water is the throughput speeds | 09:47 |
| @fenn | neat | 09:48 |
| @fenn | MrHindsight: more info on that multiaxis inkjet? what's it called? link? | 09:49 |
| MrHindsight | http://onelabs.com/maxp00.htm | 09:49 |
| MrHindsight | multi-axis inkjet, similar to multi-axis CNC, only with deposition nozzles, printheads, etc vs cutting tools | 09:50 |
| @fenn | seems like a robot arm would be more appropriate for this sort of task | 09:55 |
| @fenn | i can't really see much from the image thumbnails on that page | 09:55 |
| MrHindsight | fenn: this one has <5um repeatability http://ibin.co/219WOZD6IsUv | 09:55 |
| MrHindsight | it depends on the part geometry | 09:55 |
| MrHindsight | robot arms aren't that accurate | 09:56 |
| MrHindsight | ^^ 5-axis inkjet ~300mm^3 print area | 09:56 |
| @fenn | that's tiny | 09:57 |
| @fenn | this is for making figurines? | 09:57 |
| MrHindsight | yeah for smaller parts | 09:57 |
| MrHindsight | cell phone cases, laptops etc | 09:57 |
| MrHindsight | you can print electronics with them as well | 09:58 |
| MrHindsight | all with fluids | 09:58 |
| @fenn | metal based inks or just etch mask? | 09:58 |
| MrHindsight | all sorts | 09:58 |
| MrHindsight | metals, metal oxides, polymer semiconductors, dielectrics etc | 09:59 |
| MrHindsight | we can print circuit boards all from just fluids as well | 09:59 |
| MrHindsight | conductors, substrates, multilayer and many components | 10:00 |
| @fenn | interesting | 10:00 |
| MrHindsight | resistors, capacitors etc | 10:00 |
| @fenn | can you do BGA fanout? | 10:00 |
| MrHindsight | no problem | 10:00 |
| @fenn | why isn't this more common knowledge? like hobbyists always want to do custom BGA stuff | 10:00 |
| MrHindsight | it's more like multiwire than multilayer since you can print without layers | 10:00 |
| MrHindsight | ^^ than machine is $200K | 10:01 |
| MrHindsight | than/ that | 10:01 |
| @fenn | yeah but you don't need the machine, just the print head | 10:01 |
| @fenn | 2D circuit boards are fine for most things | 10:01 |
| MrHindsight | it's been on the website for years | 10:01 |
| @fenn | first i've heard of it, and i pay attention to this sort of thing | 10:02 |
| MrHindsight | most hobbyists have trouble with a cnc glue guns vs tech like this | 10:02 |
| MrHindsight | -a | 10:02 |
| MrHindsight | we mount lasers and ebeam heads on them as well | 10:03 |
| MrHindsight | so you can print features sub-micron | 10:03 |
| MrHindsight | 2 photon polymerization, focused ion beam etc | 10:04 |
| MrHindsight | ^^ runs linuxcnc | 10:04 |
| @fenn | what do you even use that for? | 10:04 |
| @fenn | sub-micron features i mean | 10:04 |
| MrHindsight | micro and nano machines | 10:04 |
| @fenn | does your lab have a webpage? | 10:06 |
| MrHindsight | graft proteins onto polymer nano machines, synthetic virus or small sensors that won't trigger immune reactions | 10:06 |
| MrHindsight | that was the link for one of the labs | 10:06 |
| MrHindsight | hope to be making DNA sequencers and printers soon | 10:07 |
| @fenn | oh i see the sewer penguin | 10:07 |
| MrHindsight | old coreboot logo, when it was still LinuxBIOS | 10:08 |
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| MrHindsight | a lot of our work and tools can be applied to bio | 10:10 |
| MrHindsight | thats what interests me here | 10:11 |
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| @fenn | friend of mine started a company making large array sensors using off the shelf camera chips with adsorbed biomolecules such as antibodies | 10:16 |
| @fenn | the idea is you can detect the difference in surface plasmon resonance frequency when the antibody has attached to its target | 10:17 |
| MrHindsight | there's lost of things in Bio that don't seem to even have been touched | 10:17 |
| MrHindsight | lost/lots | 10:17 |
| MrHindsight | <-- typo king today | 10:18 |
| MrHindsight | i saw lots of things on kanzure's list that are pretty easy to slap together | 10:18 |
| MrHindsight | fenn: image sensors are really low cost now | 10:19 |
| @fenn | sure, and most people would benefit from eating more fish and vitamin C and exercising, but they don't | 10:19 |
| @fenn | there's like a willpower deficit or something | 10:19 |
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| MrHindsight | bbl | 10:20 |
| @fenn | magnesium | 10:20 |
| * fenn mutters | 10:20 | |
| @fenn | "Very high accuracy systems with resolutions to 0.2nm" hard to believe | 10:22 |
| @fenn | anyway i am jealous | 10:23 |
| @fenn | if i had all those tools available i would probably just frolic around basking in the awesomeness and never get anything done | 10:27 |
| kanzure | willpower deficit is because i am hogging all of it | 10:32 |
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| CaptHindsight | fenn: the piezo positioners are good down to a few angstroms | 10:42 |
| CaptHindsight | not high speed, but you can make moves that small | 10:42 |
| CaptHindsight | fenn: http://www.pi-usa.us/products/Nanopositioning_Scanning_Stages/index.php | 10:43 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.pi-usa.us/products/Nanopositioning_Scanning_Stages/index.php#SAPN P-712 Low-Profile OEM Piezo Stage / Scanner | 10:47 |
| CaptHindsight | the P-722 and 752 is down to Resolution <0.1 nm | 10:48 |
| @fenn | the copy made it seem like it was also 7mx3m table size and 3m/s velocity 2g acceleration as well as 0.2nm resolution | 10:49 |
| @fenn | s/copy/text/ | 10:49 |
| @fenn | there are hybrid systems with linear motors and piezo stages but i'm told it's fiddly in practice | 10:51 |
| @fenn | for machine tool vibration cancelling at least | 10:51 |
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| * fenn assimilates some nuts and bolts | 10:54 | |
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| CaptHindsight | fenn: that is how it's done | 10:54 |
| CaptHindsight | much depends on your understanding of machine building and science | 10:54 |
| CaptHindsight | take the variations of FDM printers for example | 10:55 |
| CaptHindsight | they are all over the place in terms of design skill | 10:55 |
| @fenn | gantry routers are even worse | 10:55 |
| CaptHindsight | heh | 10:55 |
| @fenn | FDM is low force so frame design doesn't matter as much | 10:56 |
| CaptHindsight | bbl lunch | 10:56 |
| @fenn | a simple thermal enclosure would do wonders for most FDM designs | 10:56 |
| CaptHindsight | and understanding of adhesion | 10:57 |
| CaptHindsight | surface tension vs temp :) | 10:57 |
| CaptHindsight | but now you sound like an "overbuilder" :) | 10:57 |
| @fenn | i'm more of a parallel kinematics nutjob | 10:58 |
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| @fenn | use the force vector, luke... | 11:00 |
| kanzure | ahh that new keyboard feel | 11:13 |
| kanzure | gonna have to take this keyboard out for a spin | 11:13 |
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| CaptHindsight | http://www.networkworld.com/article/2920720/opensource-subnet/brainwave-reading-patents-spike-on-increase-in-commercial-mind-reading-apps.html Brainwave-reading patents spike on increase in commercial mind-reading apps | 11:18 |
| CaptHindsight | delayed lunch | 11:18 |
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| kanzure | the v key is overly sensitive | 11:20 |
| kanzure | sensitivvvvve | 11:20 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | brushing the corner of the v key on my way to the b key is enough to set it off :| | 11:24 |
| CaptHindsight | bad key switch? | 11:24 |
| kanzure | membrane-style | 11:24 |
| CaptHindsight | maybe the membrane has a slight bulge in the V key | 11:27 |
| CaptHindsight | puts the silicone with carbon coating a bit closer to the printed contacts below | 11:28 |
| CaptHindsight | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Membrane_keyboard_diagram_FULL_SCALE.png | 11:29 |
| CaptHindsight | can you exchange the keyboard? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | sure vbut this is already vbetter than what i had | 11:30 |
| kanzure | other keyboard i had typed some of the keys ivnto the ground | 11:30 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, is there a keyword for the quiet japanese boss who does nothing in meetings but observe? | 11:38 |
| delinquentme | But everyone knows hes in charge? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | wise | 11:38 |
| delinquentme | nooooo something more specific | 11:38 |
| delinquentme | its gotta be a thing | 11:38 |
| @fenn | the keyboard you keep sheathed until you're ready to kill in one swift motion | 11:45 |
| kanzure | is there a way for me to tone down the sensitivity | 11:46 |
| delinquentme | booze | 11:46 |
| delinquentme | just pour it ll over that keyboard | 11:46 |
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| namespace | fenn: A hulking mechanical metal giant from the 70's? | 13:11 |
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| catern | fenn: where is that trope from | 14:15 |
| namespace | catern: Samurai movies/etc. | 14:17 |
| namespace | Why? | 14:17 |
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| kanzure | boop | 17:50 |
| cluckj | beep | 18:04 |
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| timothys | bong | 18:54 |
| kanzure | hello timothys | 18:55 |
| kanzure | welcome back | 18:55 |
| timothys | can't be everywhere at once, but that doesn't stop me from trying. | 18:56 |
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| timothys | reboot | 19:14 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 22:59 |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 10 00:00:07 2015 | ||
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