| --- Log opened Fri Jul 31 00:00:09 2015 | ||
| --- Day changed Fri Jul 31 2015 | ||
| xtalmath | I wonder if the bluray head could be mounted on the quadrant piezo disk STM | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787_i | and you can overcurrent them on startup when they're cold | 00:00 |
| xtalmath | yes they have PD inside | 00:00 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, maybe... you wouldn't get much deflection with such an up close focal point | 00:01 |
| xtalmath | yeah | 00:01 |
| nmz787_i | there is a reverse technique of something like that for ultraresolution raman microscopy though | 00:02 |
| nmz787_i | where they use a piezo crystal with the sample to be viewed mounted on it | 00:03 |
| nmz787_i | and resonate the sample, then pulse a laser at it | 00:03 |
| nmz787_i | and record the feedback on the piezo | 00:03 |
| xtalmath | have you experimented with the bluray lasers? | 00:05 |
| nmz787_i | only tried using a buspirate to connect up to the main-lookin chip on one of the drives I bought to mess with | 00:09 |
| nmz787_i | I have a regulated power supply to drive the laser if I had a gantry though | 00:10 |
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| xtalmath | hm lasersurplusparts.com from the article you posted is gone | 00:19 |
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| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: my reeducation program could benefit from your assistance | 00:48 |
| justanotheruser | what | 00:49 |
| BlueLobster | actually I think all of those positions are quite transhumanist | 00:49 |
| BlueLobster | but we can pick whichver of them you'd prefer to debate | 00:50 |
| BlueLobster | is it bestiality, the age of consent, drugs or islam? | 00:50 |
| BlueLobster | I'm kind of bored and wouldn't mind some productive conversation | 00:51 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: you disagree that ideologies that have core tenets that fundamentally oppose the transhumanist agenda should be opposed by transhumanists? | 00:56 |
| BlueLobster | is this just a place to talk about happy go lucky bullshit and none of the difficut steps necessary to move forward? | 00:56 |
| justanotheruser | the only thing in that list that has anything to do with transhumanism is drugs | 00:57 |
| justanotheruser | here is some drug info http://diyhpl.us/wiki/fda/ | 00:59 |
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| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: ok so you're clearly fucked | 01:22 |
| BlueLobster | how does actively killing those whose core beliefs oppose transhumanism not promote the transhumanist agenda | 01:22 |
| fluffypony | BlueLobster: what if I don't have an agenda? | 01:22 |
| BlueLobster | the rights of children may only matter insofar as children dont matter because only future children matter | 01:23 |
| BlueLobster | fluffypony: then you are not a transhumanist | 01:23 |
| BlueLobster | you're a wannabe transhuman clown | 01:23 |
| fluffypony | I'm not a transhumanist at all | 01:23 |
| BlueLobster | fantastic | 01:23 |
| fluffypony | I never claimed to be | 01:23 |
| BlueLobster | that makes the debate easy, we have no real disagreement | 01:23 |
| BlueLobster | for some reason I thought this channel actually gave a shit about the future of the species | 01:24 |
| lsparrish | Vote for Zoltan! | 01:24 |
| BlueLobster | rather than some silly self improvement projects | 01:24 |
| BlueLobster | might as well be scientologist at this pace | 01:24 |
| fluffypony | lsparrish: ZOOOOLTAAAAN! | 01:24 |
| fluffypony | BlueLobster: I think that FSM is the future, and I await His coming down to save us | 01:25 |
| fluffypony | but not all are worthy of being touched by His Noodly Appendage | 01:25 |
| fluffypony | you must believe to be saved | 01:25 |
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| BlueLobster | fluffypony: that's ok. I believe in universal disenfranchisement | 01:28 |
| BlueLobster | so your opinions won't be an issue | 01:29 |
| fluffypony | I believe in saving all people that want to be touched | 01:30 |
| fluffypony | http://www.venganza.org/images/spreadword/havetouched.jpg | 01:30 |
| fluffypony | spread the word | 01:30 |
| justanotheruser | BlueLobster: people who fuck animals and deal with age of consent laws don't hurt or help the transhumanist agenda, they are completely unrelated | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | well this seems impractical | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: disagree | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | fucking animals is a bit of a canard | 01:31 |
| fluffypony | let us pray: http://i.imgur.com/sPDmpmc.jpg | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | however the rights of children help us move forward more rapidly if well instantiated | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | as soon as we can abandon the fantasy of the modern family the better | 01:31 |
| BlueLobster | we'll have more empowered, and more importantly emancipated, young scientists | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | so | 01:32 |
| justanotheruser | money could be better spent on research than trying to change age of consent laws to further the transhumanist agenda | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | kids matter, drugs matter | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: disagree | 01:32 |
| justanotheruser | it's not as if kids become smarter and more productive when a 35 year old guy can fuck them | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | I think well get more time discounted change | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | emancipating smart kids | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | than purely pouring dollars into research | 01:32 |
| BlueLobster | we could have that debate | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | but as you can easily see | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | the debate is partof a discussion of transhumanism | 01:33 |
| justanotheruser | emancipation is different from age of consent | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | you do not have definitive proof that you are correct | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: I'm neoholtian | 01:33 |
| justanotheruser | and emancipation doesn't mean they suddenly become researches | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | but emancipation implies being allowed to suck my cock | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | so it relates to the age of consent | 01:33 |
| justanotheruser | neopolitan? | 01:33 |
| BlueLobster | it's a topic one can use | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | neo-holtian | 01:34 |
| justanotheruser | like the ice cream? | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | john holt | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | read "escape from childhood" | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | he argues, among other things | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | that kids should be able to drive if they can pass the test | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | be able to vote if they can pass the test | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | should be able to choose their caretakers | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | rather than being slaves to their parents | 01:34 |
| justanotheruser | Your search - neoholtian - did not match any documents. | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | chattels of their parents | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | I am neo-holtian | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | I gave you the search term | 01:34 |
| justanotheruser | the words you're making up have never been used | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | john holt | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | "escape from childhood" | 01:34 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: you know what else never existed before it did? | 01:35 |
| BlueLobster | progress. | 01:35 |
| justanotheruser | lol | 01:35 |
| BlueLobster | I forget my 4th item | 01:35 |
| BlueLobster | but it was totally transhumanism ready | 01:35 |
| BlueLobster | this channel really just feels like self indulgent navel gazing | 01:35 |
| BlueLobster | rather than any sort of commitment to the furtherance of humanity | 01:36 |
| BlueLobster | real progress will not be made in our generations | 01:36 |
| BlueLobster | but the groundwork can be established | 01:36 |
| justanotheruser | this isn't primarily a politics channel, though if you want to accomplish some political goal, one that would be very positive for the movement is passing the National Fab Lab Network Act, which will be far more useful than legalizing dog sex | 01:37 |
| xtalmath | lol "The measured efficiency for the first order efficiency was about 9.5%, which is in accordance to the plot presented byMoharam and Gaylord[19],..." | 01:38 |
| BlueLobster | yes as I said | 01:38 |
| BlueLobster | "not primarily a politics channel" | 01:38 |
| BlueLobster | may be better translated as "entirely fucking useless bunch of cunts" | 01:39 |
| BlueLobster | because as far as I can tell people are trying to live the fantasy of transhumanism today | 01:39 |
| BlueLobster | which will neer be a reality in your lifetimes | 01:39 |
| BlueLobster | rather than actually promoting the cause | 01:39 |
| justanotheruser | there are ways to accomplish transhumanist goals that are far more efficient than asking someone to make laws that make people act in a way that makes them more likely to further the transhumanist movement | 01:39 |
| BlueLobster | too bad. Head in the clouds. | 01:39 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: prove it | 01:40 |
| BlueLobster | I"d like to see your list | 01:40 |
| justanotheruser | list of what? | 01:40 |
| BlueLobster | ways | 01:40 |
| justanotheruser | working on open source hardware | 01:40 |
| justanotheruser | working on open source scientific software | 01:40 |
| justanotheruser | working on research using these tools | 01:40 |
| BlueLobster | I'm a julia contributor | 01:40 |
| BlueLobster | sometimes we need to multitask | 01:41 |
| BlueLobster | don't tell me you fucks aren't supporters of julia | 01:41 |
| * BlueLobster rolls eyes | 01:41 | |
| BlueLobster | I'm massively disappointed in the transhumanist community in general beacuse as I said mostly self indlugent cunts | 01:42 |
| BlueLobster | who think it's going to benefit THEM | 01:42 |
| BlueLobster | rather than future humans | 01:42 |
| BlueLobster | but also because "omg nootripics" and really not a lot of organization whatsoever | 01:42 |
| BlueLobster | Julia. Suck it. | 01:43 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I think the best way forward, is to recognize that all communication is worthless unless truth is implied. and true is worthless unless its nonequivalence to false is regarded as desirable. | 01:44 |
| xtalmath | so consistency is the most important thing, and we should formalize all belief systems into MetaMath | 01:45 |
| xtalmath | thereby also gameifying reason, and making education dirt cheap | 01:45 |
| justanotheruser | self indulgence promotes progress | 01:46 |
| xtalmath | if society and schools of thought maintained explicit belief systems, then anyone who can prove true=false should be rewarded, as in such a belief system all statements can be proven both true and false | 01:46 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: but I do agree with the concept of family needing to go, and I think I can imagine quite a good compromise, its a bit long to explain the system I envision, so I won't explain unless you really want to hear it... | 01:47 |
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| xtalmath | BlueLobster: but I certainly do not believe sex with adults will enlighten children! | 01:48 |
| xtalmath | with MetaMath, and a good visual interface, we could start a war on hypocrisy ;-) | 01:49 |
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| BlueLobster | xtalmath: let's discuss tomorrow | 01:58 |
| BlueLobster | practically speaking I do not mind the creche system | 01:59 |
| xtalmath | in how many hours is that? | 01:59 |
| xtalmath | I don't know the creche system | 01:59 |
| BlueLobster | I can enterin you now, but only for under .8 hours | 01:59 |
| BlueLobster | it's the idea that we can raise kids better collectively and that parental rights should be earned, if at all bestowed | 01:59 |
| xtalmath | oh | 01:59 |
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| BlueLobster | xtalmath: you disagree? | 02:35 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: at what age do most problems occur? the first 8 or after that? | 02:36 |
| BlueLobster | define problem | 02:37 |
| BlueLobster | are we looking at a simple mortality hazard model? | 02:37 |
| BlueLobster | it's multimodal | 02:37 |
| xtalmath | any kind of occurence that causes people to consider a different way of organizing childhood throughout society | 02:37 |
| BlueLobster | I see | 02:38 |
| BlueLobster | so we're envisioning a candidate society | 02:38 |
| BlueLobster | a sample from many possible societies | 02:38 |
| BlueLobster | with this system as opposed to others? | 02:38 |
| xtalmath | there is always room for improvement, which requires debate. if not we could just scrap the whole concept of democracy | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | the women's right movement has been counterproductive in some ways | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | as it underlies the modern concept of a family | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | which is new | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | and more or less a lie | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | so I'd ay the risk is more or less immediate | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | you are telling females they are not mommy, they are incubators | 02:39 |
| BlueLobster | they are of course welcome to participate | 02:40 |
| fenn | why don't you work on artificial incubators instead of trying to boss people around | 02:40 |
| BlueLobster | because I care about the people being bossed around | 02:40 |
| BlueLobster | children | 02:40 |
| BlueLobster | why is it legal to circumcise boys? | 02:40 |
| BlueLobster | can't cut any other part of a child off legally | 02:40 |
| BlueLobster | somehow baby boy dick is special | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | they seem to be a neglected class | 02:41 |
| xtalmath | yes, I think the child as property of the parents is indirectly a result of the transition from nomadic to sedentary society. with things like industrial revolution (where parents who "have" more children can earn more by sending them to the factory) exacerbating the problem | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | also because I think we can move forward more quickly | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | if we do not respect family structures that are obssessed with their past actions | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: it's much more recent than that, as an actionable concept | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | as recent as 100 years | 02:41 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I fully agree that circumcision on boys is bad, | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | kids used to leave the family home pretty early | 02:41 |
| BlueLobster | and work at a manor house or anywhere they could be gainfuly empluyed | 02:42 |
| BlueLobster | the modern family is very very new | 02:42 |
| BlueLobster | for the vast majority of classes of humans | 02:42 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: let's just say it | 02:42 |
| BlueLobster | circumcision on all genders is bad | 02:42 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: but hey, even here where I grew up, I was circumcised against my will, and it was my biggest trauma. and then years later, you read the law and you realize its been illegal all the time | 02:42 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: sorry. | 02:43 |
| BlueLobster | there are a LOT of boys out there to protect | 02:43 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: what are your thoughts on revenge? | 02:44 |
| xtalmath | which is worse, revenge or propagation? | 02:44 |
| BlueLobster | I only beleieve in prevention | 02:44 |
| BlueLobster | but revenge can be useful as a means to prevention | 02:44 |
| xtalmath | revenge can be a form of prevention | 02:44 |
| xtalmath | exactly | 02:44 |
| BlueLobster | if every boy cut the dick off the doctor who was paid to circumcise him | 02:44 |
| BlueLobster | you wouldn't find a lot of circumcisers | 02:44 |
| xtalmath | I have the impression you are trying to radicalize me ;) | 02:45 |
| fenn | xtalmath: BlueLobster is a new member of the channel and his views are not representative of other channel members... | 02:45 |
| xtalmath | fenn: I'm pretty sure my views are not representative of a lot of people either | 02:45 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: do other channel members beliefe that the body itegrity of children should be up to the whims of their parents? | 02:45 |
| xtalmath | but to me the circumcision thing is very personal | 02:45 |
| BlueLobster | why is there ONE part of a kid that's legal to cut off? | 02:46 |
| BlueLobster | for no medical reason | 02:46 |
| BlueLobster | only on boys | 02:46 |
| BlueLobster | don't be dumb | 02:46 |
| fenn | i'd rather that this channel not turn into a hate spewing incitement to violence against $outgroup | 02:46 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: here in Belgium, no operation on children is legal, unless to prevent death | 02:46 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: outgroup here is only defined as those who mutilate children | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | or more genreally those who do not futher the transhumanist agenda | 02:47 |
| fenn | you had a few other things in your list | 02:47 |
| xtalmath | in practice, the law is a piece of paper, a vague guideline, with the most important thing being paying taxes | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: well the muslims have to go | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | they opporess women, they mutilate boys, they call forr the heads of those who do not tolerate them | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | they cry about intolerance when their intolerance is not tolerated | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | these are problems | 02:47 |
| BlueLobster | as active transhumanists we have to address reality | 02:48 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I don't think muslim's have to go. People can believe what they want, but they should not be allowed to do everything they want. | 02:48 |
| justanotheruser | first, time She was in my math class Long hair, brown skin with the fat ass Sat beside me, used to laugh, had mad jokes The teacher always got mad so we passed notes | 02:50 |
| justanotheruser | FORREST HILL DRIVES = FIRE | 02:50 |
| justanotheruser | *HILLS DRIVE | 02:50 |
| fenn | i don't see how preventing circumcision will lead to immortality, transcendence etc | 02:51 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: muslims didnt circumcise me, batshit crazy mother (who only recently I learned used to be a prostitute in the past), asshole stepfather (who laughed at me as I was forced to go to the hospital, all the while funding it, while acknowledging its undesirability), and possibly perverted, but probably just corrupt surgeon did this to me | 02:51 |
| xtalmath | fenn: it won't | 02:51 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: I'm inteerested in your ideas about how to limit the muslims | 02:52 |
| BlueLobster | because the fundament of the current implmentation of their religion | 02:52 |
| xtalmath | part of me believes, that if my mother had rebelled, and taken real revenge on whomever had wronged her, she would never have propagated this on me. | 02:52 |
| BlueLobster | demands compliance | 02:52 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: sorry about your dick. | 02:53 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: what do you mean with limit? I believe education is the key | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: There are a lot of boys out there you can help. | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: how would you "educate" modern syria | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | I've been there | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | I fucking cry at night | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | because of what has happened to the country | 02:53 |
| BlueLobster | not that my feelings matter | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | but I'm not sure you know what you're dealing with | 02:54 |
| fenn | why were you in syria? | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | in terms of the people who must be bombed | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: to visit some of the unesco sites? | 02:54 |
| xtalmath | "who must be bombed" ? | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | it was a long time ago | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | fifteen years the first time | 02:54 |
| BlueLobster | damascus is one of the oldest outposts of civizliation in known creation | 02:55 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: what is your background, where did you grow up? were your parents muslim? | 02:55 |
| BlueLobster | those thigs are worth seeing | 02:55 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: my parents have phds in different things, I have a phd in another thing | 02:55 |
| BlueLobster | I went to school mostly in the usa | 02:55 |
| BlueLobster | I've lived in the usa and in europe and not as much of asia as I'd like | 02:56 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: why are you specifically focused on muslims circumcising boys? | 02:56 |
| BlueLobster | I"m not | 02:56 |
| BlueLobster | I'm mostly focused on killing all muslims immediately | 02:56 |
| xtalmath | but why? | 02:56 |
| BlueLobster | the cutting of boys is but one of many reasons | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | I think I've already mentioned this | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | they do not tolerate those who do not tolerate them | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | they DEMAND tolerance however | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | dhimmitude | 02:57 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I assume by now you are a US citizen, and you have been circumcised as well? | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | I do not which to be a dhimmi | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | nah my cock is ok | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | find me a muslim country that is adminstered properly | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | and I'll tell you it's either morocco who still hvae a king | 02:57 |
| BlueLobster | or iraqi kurdistan which isn't an official country | 02:58 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: find me a western country that is administered properly? | 02:58 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: canada | 02:58 |
| fenn | tunisia is apparently doing ok | 02:58 |
| BlueLobster | tunisia is litle | 02:58 |
| xtalmath | I'm sure plenty of boys in Canada are circumcised against their will too | 02:58 |
| BlueLobster | and surrounded by the threat of horror | 02:58 |
| BlueLobster | but yeat after ousting their longtime corrupt first family | 02:58 |
| BlueLobster | and letting the rest of their corrupt higher society take over | 02:59 |
| BlueLobster | tunisia is aces | 02:59 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: the circumcision rate in canada is very low now | 02:59 |
| BlueLobster | outside of ontario | 02:59 |
| xtalmath | very low, but what about those others? the circumcision rate in belgium is supposedly very low too... | 02:59 |
| fenn | BlueLobster: why do you think modern muslim countries are so terrible when it was the moors who sustained western civilization through the dark ages and initiated what would become the enlightenment? | 02:59 |
| BlueLobster | pretty much all nonshitheads the world over have realized there's no reason to cut up boys cocks | 02:59 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: so your question is why the muslim world backslid so much | 03:00 |
| fenn | you are using circular definitions | 03:00 |
| BlueLobster | I'm not sure I'd give so much credit to the moors | 03:00 |
| BlueLobster | but it is demonstrable that the muslim world massively backslid | 03:00 |
| fenn | yes i agree | 03:00 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: to be honest, I thinbk the muslim world became upset about being used as a tourist paradise | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | treated like shit | 03:01 |
| fenn | i'm just pointing out that there are examples of muslim societies that aren't terrible | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | ingoring their "honor" | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | by the west as it were | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | after we regained primacy | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | if you wante dto have sex with boys, for example, you can still do it in pakistan | 03:01 |
| BlueLobster | there's an organized bitterness | 03:02 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I think it is less about tourism, and more about geostrategy and world resources. | 03:02 |
| BlueLobster | about our imposd influenced in the region | 03:02 |
| BlueLobster | predating world war one | 03:02 |
| BlueLobster | but exacerbated by the borders we drew after world war one | 03:02 |
| BlueLobster | that's my theory about the problem | 03:02 |
| BlueLobster | we basically treated arab boys like whores | 03:03 |
| BlueLobster | admittedly they are slutty :p | 03:03 |
| xtalmath | "we" ? | 03:03 |
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| BlueLobster | xtalmath: those of us with european origins | 03:03 |
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| xtalmath | what do you mean with treating like whores? | 03:03 |
| BlueLobster | I mean let's go to mosul | 03:04 |
| BlueLobster | and I guarantee I can get boys to bring me tea | 03:04 |
| xtalmath | you went to mosul and had sex with boys? | 03:04 |
| xtalmath | why? | 03:04 |
| fenn | it certainly wouldn't be a stretch to believe that | 03:04 |
| BlueLobster | you may be missing the point | 03:04 |
| xtalmath | i still have my foreskin though | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | although I prefer the kurds over all other varieties of muslim | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | my kurds are not even all muslim | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: if that's true I'm happy for you | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | did she have it split up the middle | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | due to phimosis? | 03:05 |
| BlueLobster | better than cutting it off | 03:05 |
| xtalmath | "phimosis" before puberty, is like diagnosing a girl with "too small tits" before puberty | 03:06 |
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| BlueLobster | xtalmath: maybe you hav met the number two crusdaer for not chopping up boy dick | 03:07 |
| BlueLobster | on the planet | 03:07 |
| BlueLobster | if that's true, you'd have to be number one | 03:07 |
| BlueLobster | cheers | 03:07 |
| xtalmath | it didn't cause problems yet, and 12/13 years before I was circumcised the first series of papers came out detailing non-surgical methods to treat phimosis (cortico steroids) | 03:07 |
| BlueLobster | there are a lot of options | 03:08 |
| BlueLobster | you can just make a little snip | 03:08 |
| xtalmath | it is how I eventually treated it | 03:08 |
| BlueLobster | not cut anything off | 03:08 |
| xtalmath | the little snip is the same as the partial circumcision | 03:08 |
| BlueLobster | the steroids are much more usful if they are applied when they boy is pretty small | 03:08 |
| BlueLobster | also he should just jerk off more | 03:08 |
| xtalmath | but the lengthwise cut also has its problems (basic geometry) | 03:09 |
| BlueLobster | if you do the snip on the top you don't really damage the frenulum | 03:09 |
| xtalmath | phimosis should be only possible to diagnose after puberty | 03:09 |
| BlueLobster | boys should just masurbate more | 03:09 |
| BlueLobster | the biggest problem is boys being afraid of playing with their dicks | 03:09 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: you agree that you can view the foreskin as a cylindrical piece of skin simplistically speaking? | 03:10 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: I can utilize the construct to envision what you're talking about | 03:10 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: well if you make a lengthwise cut, and then sow one side of the cut onto itself and the same for the other side, think about how much angle there is on each of the 4 points? | 03:11 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: yeah I'm not happy about that | 03:12 |
| BlueLobster | I'm just sayting if a boy's foreskin is really tight you can make a snip without removing any tissue | 03:12 |
| xtalmath | a normal point in the plane has 360 degrees. the ends of the cut now have 720 degrees, and the 2 seperated points in the middle now only have 180 degrees. so instead of the metric being euclidean, you now have points with hyperbolic and elliptical geometry | 03:13 |
| BlueLobster | there's no reason to go cutting off all of the other parts of the dick | 03:13 |
| xtalmath | that means it wont really roll over itself well, and it grabs condom, which rips faster, which is not fun to explain to girls who think you are somehow doing this on purpouse... | 03:14 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: butit means you keep your frenulum | 03:14 |
| BlueLobster | and the ridged band | 03:14 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: what I am saying is, even without removing tissue, it can become a real trauma. especially before puberty, a child has not had real voluntary sexual relationships. every reference to and act of sex is now associated with this trauma, of surgery, | 03:16 |
| justanotheruser | I guess my trolling didn't derail BlueLobsters trolling :( | 03:16 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: my godson is 9 and is still a little tight | 03:16 |
| BlueLobster | his doctor thinks he should jerk off more | 03:16 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: thats like saying circumcision is ok, at least the glans is intact, compared to female circumcision... | 03:16 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: I mean if they have a real physical problem | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | like erections are painful | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | maybe it's time to do something | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | I need to talk to my godson | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | he's not very motile for his age | 03:17 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: not if it isn't painful, and even if it is, remember circumcision is by definition painful. | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | which can lead to problems | 03:17 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: I'm just going to tell him to fucking jerk it more | 03:17 |
| xtalmath | also, with "just the snip" the child will have to piss alongside the wound for a couple of weeks, which hurts as hell | 03:18 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: pretty muchg planning to avoidthat | 03:18 |
| BlueLobster | his mom is freaking out but he has no painful urination or inflammation | 03:18 |
| BlueLobster | he's just not as motile as he should be | 03:19 |
| BlueLobster | he needs to jerk it more | 03:19 |
| xtalmath | why is his mother freaking out? and what do you exactly refer to with motile? | 03:19 |
| xtalmath | he doesn't need to jerk on command, wtf is up with that? | 03:19 |
| BlueLobster | she wasn't onboard with him not being cut in the first place | 03:19 |
| xtalmath | now we are getting at the root of the problem | 03:19 |
| BlueLobster | well he isn't | 03:20 |
| BlueLobster | and intend to save all of his penis | 03:20 |
| xtalmath | why does his mother insist he gets circumcised? | 03:20 |
| BlueLobster | she doesn't yet | 03:20 |
| BlueLobster | she did originallybecause that's what she as used to | 03:20 |
| BlueLobster | now it's "becoming a problem" | 03:20 |
| BlueLobster | nine fucking years later | 03:20 |
| xtalmath | slow down, I can't follow what you are saying | 03:21 |
| xtalmath | why does the mother see it as a problem? | 03:21 |
| BlueLobster | what I'm saying is that dad was cut like most americans | 03:21 |
| BlueLobster | and I convinced dad and mom to not do it | 03:21 |
| xtalmath | great! | 03:21 |
| BlueLobster | it's a problem because he's 9 and not very much retraction | 03:21 |
| BlueLobster | of the foreskin | 03:21 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: that is entirely normal | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: not that normal | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | fewer than 10 percent of kids are non-retractile by his age | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | you can trust me | 03:22 |
| xtalmath | 10% is a lot | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | I'm a statistician | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | dude | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | he's not going to get his dick chopped off because people are ignorant | 03:22 |
| BlueLobster | I would have to be killed first | 03:23 |
| xtalmath | he might because people want to earn money | 03:23 |
| BlueLobster | yeah | 03:23 |
| BlueLobster | I'm in a good position to influence this situation. | 03:23 |
| xtalmath | or because mother secretly harbors a fetish | 03:23 |
| BlueLobster | oh she hates his foreskin | 03:23 |
| BlueLobster | but I think if he just jerks off a bit... anyway there's no reason to have ANY surgery if he's not in pain | 03:24 |
| BlueLobster | also we should kill all muslims | 03:24 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: just tell her the following analogy: everyone has a small inflammation of the eyelid every now and then (like at the root of an eyelash swelling), thats not a reason to cut off your eyelids. even if it prevents future inflammation of the eyelids | 03:25 |
| BlueLobster | dude he hasn't even had any issues | 03:25 |
| BlueLobster | his doctor just says it doesn't move enough according to his last visit | 03:25 |
| BlueLobster | they just want to hack it off | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | I know | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | I will not allow this. | 03:26 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: has the child seen porn? | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: he's had some erections | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | he calls them "gross" | 03:26 |
| xtalmath | personally I don't think its a good idea check it as a parent | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | this upsetsme and I want to find out why | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | why is an erection "gross" | 03:26 |
| BlueLobster | we're getting to the bottom of this later | 03:27 |
| fluffypony | as a kid I thought girls had germs and I had to avoid them | 03:27 |
| BlueLobster | yeah but | 03:27 |
| BlueLobster | I dunnoas a kid | 03:27 |
| fluffypony | kids think stupid crap | 03:27 |
| BlueLobster | I was jerking off long before I thought about girls or boys | 03:27 |
| xtalmath | perhaps he doesn't like doctors _trying_ to retract his foreskin, and his protest was interpreted as pain... | 03:27 |
| BlueLobster | obviously it feels good to him in a way that makes him uncomfortable | 03:27 |
| BlueLobster | playing with it I mean | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | I've kept him uncut for 9 years | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | I intend to keep it that way until I die :p | 03:28 |
| fenn | with god as my witness... yadda yadda | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: fine fine | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | noody else is really chatting | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | you want to get back on topic? | 03:28 |
| fenn | not really | 03:28 |
| BlueLobster | we didn't mean to turn this into ##boydick | 03:29 |
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| fenn | well your idea of "on topic" is telling everyone how much they suck and that we should be bombing people | 03:29 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I think 9 is quite early for all this | 03:29 |
| BlueLobster | although I think it's important because (maybe I"m wrong) successful transhumanism would probably not result in parents making irrevocable and unnecessary modifications to their kids' genitalia | 03:29 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I think you are entirely right | 03:30 |
| fenn | successful transhumanism would mean being trivial to grow it back and also edit your memories so that it never happened | 03:30 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: we will never realize that | 03:30 |
| BlueLobster | but we could do things to make it more likely | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | this is my problem with this channel | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | everyone wants to ascend | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | you're going to fucking die, get over it | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | but you can do some good work while you're here | 03:31 |
| fenn | fuck you i'm living forever | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | going to fucking die | 03:31 |
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| fenn | troll | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | I'm not a troll sir | 03:31 |
| fenn | you are definitely a troll | 03:31 |
| BlueLobster | I just favor humanity more than humans | 03:31 |
| fenn | that's fine | 03:32 |
| xtalmath | fenn: I think growing a new foreskin is not so trivial | 03:32 |
| BlueLobster | you're just a regular humanist or maybe someone delusional who thinkshe can live forever | 03:32 |
| BlueLobster | you will die, much much sooner than 100 years from now. | 03:32 |
| BlueLobster | but not everyone has to | 03:32 |
| fenn | why do you even care if future generations can live forever | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | we can give a better future to our children's children's children's whatevers | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | because I have a big heart | 03:33 |
| xtalmath | fenn: and the edit memories even if possible will have its drawbacks. traumas impact your life in many negative ways, but also explain some of your behaviour, if you remove the explanation youll wake up with a past that contains unmotivated actions... | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | I care about more than just myself | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | I care about my godson | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | I care about his kids | 03:33 |
| fenn | xtalmath: any memory editing will do that | 03:33 |
| BlueLobster | I have accepted, being a realsistic person | 03:34 |
| BlueLobster | that my death is inevitale | 03:34 |
| BlueLobster | but that I can do things to preent it for someone in he future | 03:34 |
| xtalmath | fenn: so memory editing entails problems | 03:34 |
| fenn | yeah it's like lying | 03:34 |
| BlueLobster | this channel isn't about transhumanism | 03:34 |
| BlueLobster | it's about living a fantasy | 03:35 |
| fenn | why are you here | 03:35 |
| xtalmath | i wasn't here for transhumanism at all, just for technology | 03:35 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: maybe I CAn find someone to help | 03:35 |
| fenn | go troll stormfront | 03:35 |
| xtalmath | im happy I passed by here, someone gave me a great link to using bluray optics for microfabrication! | 03:35 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: do you think that sufficiently many technologies will be achieved in your lifetime? | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | people here are about prolonging life | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | there is no evidence that you can prolong life as a human through any choices you make | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | other than eliminating the very unhealthy ones | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | they're about amximizing their intellectual potential | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | that ship sailed when they were 12 | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | what about doing what we can while we're here? | 03:36 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: not sure, but I can imagine scanning frozen brains can someday be run on software | 03:36 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: I've sectioned frozen brains on a microtome before | 03:37 |
| BlueLobster | do you have any idea how much damage the freezing process cause? | 03:37 |
| BlueLobster | causes | 03:37 |
| xtalmath | but I don't think I would like that, since I would have no proof that my instance would be the only copy running | 03:37 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I don't | 03:38 |
| BlueLobster | Everyone on this channel will die within their life expectancy, plus or minus a few standard deviations | 03:38 |
| fenn | thank you nostradamus | 03:38 |
| fenn | you truly are a statistician | 03:39 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I am interested in the kinds of damage | 03:39 |
| BlueLobster | no I actually am :p | 03:39 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: well your brain, the organ of you I guess | 03:39 |
| xtalmath | when did you section frozen brains on a microtome? | 03:39 |
| BlueLobster | very mch captures you in its shape | 03:39 |
| BlueLobster | mostly in the 90s | 03:39 |
| BlueLobster | I came up in the neurosciences | 03:39 |
| xtalmath | what do you mean with capturing in shape? | 03:40 |
| BlueLobster | well | 03:40 |
| fenn | the connectome determines your personality | 03:40 |
| BlueLobster | you understand your brain is a bunch of little fatty bags | 03:40 |
| fenn | it's the set of connections between neurons | 03:40 |
| xtalmath | connectome being the connectivity graph of the neurons? | 03:40 |
| fenn | right | 03:40 |
| BlueLobster | floating in saltwater | 03:40 |
| BlueLobster | there's a lot going on inside the fatty bags | 03:40 |
| BlueLobster | but their shapes at LEAST determines how they connect | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | when you freeze things ice crysyals form | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | and destroy fine structure | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | they turn things mushy | 03:41 |
| xtalmath | again I fail to understand what you mean with shape of the neurons? | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | your mushy brain contins far less information | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | than your present brain | 03:41 |
| fenn | if the neurons are not touching they can't connect | 03:41 |
| fenn | the shape determines whether they are touching or not | 03:41 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: imagine if we were all an organ of thought | 03:42 |
| xtalmath | are you saying the axons dissapear when frozen? | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | you, me, fenn | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | we can all tickle each other | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | but only in precise places | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | I'm saying the dendrites in fucking particular are going to be obliterated | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | the axons are not my problem | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | (in most parts of the brain) | 03:42 |
| BlueLobster | you can only communicate me by tickling fenn's little toe | 03:43 |
| fenn | hee | 03:43 |
| BlueLobster | but fenn's little toe was just amputated beause he got frostbite | 03:43 |
| fenn | nothing disappears, it just gets ripped apart and you can't tell which dendrite was connected to which axon | 03:43 |
| BlueLobster | information has disapearead | 03:44 |
| xtalmath | what I never understood about the connectome, is where are the neuronal weights in the brain? is that like number of synapses? or the kind of chemicals a synapse emits? or is it like length and diameter of dendrites (almost like a resistor)? | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | if you write a note with pen on ink and submerge it in water | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | the ink is still there | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | the paperis still there | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | the information is gone | 03:44 |
| fenn | philosophy | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | if we can fucking reverse a frozen brain to functional form | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | the future is awesome | 03:44 |
| BlueLobster | and I want my brain frozen | 03:45 |
| BlueLobster | like right now | 03:45 |
| BlueLobster | because I don't want to risk it being damaged otherwise | 03:45 |
| fenn | xtalmath: mostly it's the concentration of synapses in a particular place on the cell membrane of a dendrite | 03:45 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: a synapse is just a space | 03:45 |
| BlueLobster | a gap between cells | 03:45 |
| fenn | er, neurotransmitter receptor proteins | 03:45 |
| xtalmath | does this occur with every freezing fluid? or is some kind of "invar" fluid possible? | 03:45 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: your brain is unfortunately full of salty water | 03:46 |
| BlueLobster | it's going to be hard to freeze your brain without dealing with that | 03:46 |
| BlueLobster | it's even harder than this | 03:46 |
| BlueLobster | the distribution of salts in that water is HOW YOU THINK | 03:46 |
| fenn | xtalmath: there's been some progress with vitrification, in which no crystals form | 03:46 |
| BlueLobster | so a bit of sodium over here and a bit of potassium over here | 03:47 |
| BlueLobster | is quite literally what makes you you | 03:47 |
| fenn | meh | 03:47 |
| fenn | ion concentrations are transitory | 03:47 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: with salt distribution now you mean the current excitation pattern on the brain? | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | the transition of ion concentrations is literally what you are experiencing | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | if e froze you and rebooted you | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | you eouldn'ty even be you | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | you'd be something that thought like you | 03:48 |
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| BlueLobster | your stream of conscious experience would be obliterated | 03:48 |
| fenn | it's like firing patterns, the electrical activity is transitory but it's generated by other things | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | you'd be something else | 03:48 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: in that sense, a person before light concussion is not the same as after,... but good enough for me | 03:48 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: the STATES of the neurons are what matters is many cases | 03:49 |
| xtalmath | so what if some short term memory is lost... | 03:49 |
| fenn | afaik the brain doesn't have any flip flop circuits | 03:49 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: if I obliterated you and made an exact copy out of your bits | 03:49 |
| BlueLobster | and it really thought it was you | 03:49 |
| BlueLobster | but the you you died and never felt anything ever again | 03:49 |
| BlueLobster | would that be a satisfactory outcome? | 03:49 |
| xtalmath | that is exactly what I expected of the neural replication | 03:50 |
| fenn | welcome to identity 101, class is in session | 03:50 |
| BlueLobster | it's a fun thought problem | 03:50 |
| fenn | where are the beliefs located in a thermostat | 03:50 |
| BlueLobster | but if we freeze your fucking brain | 03:50 |
| BlueLobster | assuming we can even reboot it | 03:50 |
| BlueLobster | I would presume that's mor elike being smashed by an oldschool TOS transporter | 03:51 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: from a multiverse standpoint, this is happening every second. all points in the universe's phase space are valid, and nearly all transitions are possible. we are always modified copies of the moment before | 03:51 |
| BlueLobster | than having your "thought patterns held in quantum whatever the fcuk the rest of this explanation is" | 03:51 |
| BlueLobster | this is one of the reasons why I don't give fuck all about extant humans and think we should just focus on future humans | 03:51 |
| fenn | so if you beamed down to the planet surface, is that a "future human" in your eyes? | 03:52 |
| fenn | just another guy | 03:52 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: by TOS rule? yes | 03:52 |
| xtalmath | TOS rule? | 03:52 |
| BlueLobster | TNG has some mechanism whjere they maintain "your neural patterns" | 03:53 |
| BlueLobster | in the "warp matrix" or something | 03:53 |
| fenn | i thought all the the star trek transporters worked according to the same principles | 03:53 |
| BlueLobster | no | 03:53 |
| BlueLobster | TOs and TNG post are different | 03:53 |
| fenn | post? | 03:53 |
| BlueLobster | TNG, DS9, Voyager | 03:53 |
| BlueLobster | so yes, according to TOS mythology | 03:54 |
| BlueLobster | kirk has been smashed to death and recreated many times | 03:54 |
| BlueLobster | also they have replicators | 03:55 |
| BlueLobster | if I can make oe of you why can't I make two of you? | 03:55 |
| xtalmath | I remember reading about fMRI or similar on frozen cells | 03:55 |
| BlueLobster | which one gets to keep your stream of consciousness? | 03:55 |
| fenn | because that would introduce terrible ethical problems that nobody wants to think about | 03:55 |
| xtalmath | I had the impression they could see all cell structures like microtubuli and membrane proteins | 03:55 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: hi, maybe we've never met before | 03:55 |
| fenn | there was a TNG episode about this exact problem, where there was riker and shipwrecked riker from 8 years ago | 03:55 |
| BlueLobster | earlier I was talking about how we should legislate sex with 0 year olds | 03:55 |
| xtalmath | so what about fMRI & microtome? | 03:55 |
| BlueLobster | welcome to complex ethical problems nobody WANTS to talk about | 03:56 |
| BlueLobster | fmri is a field I trust apporoximately notwhere | 03:56 |
| BlueLobster | lots of nice data | 03:56 |
| BlueLobster | don't mind the technology | 03:56 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I mean fMRI on the frozen brain | 03:56 |
| fenn | well it's illegal to have sex with 0 year olds, and it's probably illegal to replicate people according to the hypothetical federation law code | 03:56 |
| BlueLobster | but blood oxygenation is not necessarily comptmporanio | 03:57 |
| xtalmath | not fMRI on the living person | 03:57 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: it should not be de facto illegal to fuck newborns | 03:57 |
| BlueLobster | if the newborns can pass the test for consent | 03:57 |
| BlueLobster | hell it should not be de jure illegal | 03:57 |
| BlueLobster | there should be no age of consent | 03:57 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster, fMRI can see way more than blood oxygenation, if it doesnt have to be real time and the brain is static (frozen) it can resolve individual atoms I think | 03:57 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: fmri can't see that much | 03:58 |
| fenn | lawmakers are not smart enough to come up with "the test" | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | it can see structure | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | not the position of every goddamned second messenger detached in a cell | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | it can't even see individual cells | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | fmri isn't going to save you | 03:58 |
| fenn | many adults would fail the test and complain and vote for the other politician next time | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | fenn: good nes | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | news | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | I am in favor of a test for enfranchisement | 03:58 |
| BlueLobster | those people will not be voting :) | 03:59 |
| fenn | i don't think enfranchisement should be a boolean yes/no | 03:59 |
| BlueLobster | how would you handle it? | 03:59 |
| fenn | sets of rights and responsibilities based on ability | 03:59 |
| fenn | i'm really more of an anarchist though | 04:00 |
| fenn | too many laws already | 04:00 |
| BlueLobster | I Thought we were transhumanists | 04:00 |
| BlueLobster | anarchy is going to make whoever squats the most kick in your door and rape your children | 04:00 |
| BlueLobster | not the outcome I favour | 04:00 |
| BlueLobster | unless your children are 17 year old boys and I live next door | 04:02 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: ok I think it wasnt MRI then: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230733347_FIBSEM_tomography_with_TEM-like_resolution_for_3D_imaging_of_high-pressure_frozen_cells | 04:02 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I don't need saving, as I said, I don't think i would like to live in a world where I can't prove myself I am not being run in some sadistic simulation | 04:03 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I am an anarchist, and I think you misunderstand the concept of anarchism, its basically about leaderlessness | 04:04 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: you understand that what makes you you is the precise chemical action of every molecule in hundreds of millions of nerons right? | 04:04 |
| BlueLobster | and every neuron is iself composed of hundreds of millions of molecules? | 04:04 |
| BlueLobster | preserving your state is going to be fucking hard | 04:04 |
| BlueLobster | I do not believe that leaderlessness is an equilibrium. | 04:05 |
| fenn | i'd love to get you in a room with russ nelson | 04:05 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: I also understand that a persons exact chemical composition now and an hour later are very different, yet we still call them the same person | 04:05 |
| BlueLobster | Your little headless estate will be destroyed by my fiefdom. | 04:05 |
| BlueLobster | There is an economy of scale for individuals to submit to their rulers. | 04:06 |
| xtalmath | BlueLobster: the concept of democracy is actually very anarchist | 04:06 |
| BlueLobster | xtalmath: anarchists don't hve bombers | 04:06 |
| BlueLobster | states do | 04:06 |
| xtalmath | I am also a democrat, and a liberal | 04:06 |
| BlueLobster | you know what happens when you don't have bombers and someone else does? | 04:06 |
| xtalmath | an anarchist state could have bombers, but might only use them for peaceful nuclear explosions | 04:07 |
| BlueLobster | ahem | 04:07 |
| BlueLobster | anarchist state | 04:07 |
| justanotheruser | BlueLobster: are you sponsoring the channel | 04:07 |
| justanotheruser | the topic seems to imply it | 04:07 |
| BlueLobster | justanotheruser: if this channel could be good at something other than pretending it'll live forever | 04:08 |
| BlueLobster | I might consider it | 04:08 |
| justanotheruser | you get answers like that when you ask about philosophy and not research | 04:10 |
| BlueLobster | I"m vastly more intereted in policy | 04:10 |
| BlueLobster | and action | 04:10 |
| BlueLobster | correct my if I'm wrong | 04:11 |
| justanotheruser | this is more of an action channel than a policy channel from what I've seen | 04:11 |
| BlueLobster | but this channel is not overflowing with professors with well endowed labs at prestigious universities | 04:11 |
| BlueLobster | it seems like we could impact the world more by promoting research than by doing it | 04:11 |
| BlueLobster | transhumanism is not a table top science | 04:12 |
| justanotheruser | Maybe there should be ##hplusroadmap-research-promotion-division | 04:12 |
| BlueLobster | well look | 04:12 |
| BlueLobster | if there is research to be actually fucking promoted | 04:12 |
| BlueLobster | let's have it | 04:12 |
| BlueLobster | that k-person is going to make me read things again | 04:12 |
| justanotheruser | I'm more interested in D and reading other peoples R | 04:12 |
| justanotheruser | oh no, not reading things | 04:13 |
| BlueLobster | srsly | 04:13 |
| justanotheruser | we need a youtube video explained by an enthusiastic female voice with an animation of words being drawn for you | 04:13 |
| fenn | an enthusiastic 17 year old boy's voice | 04:13 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: at one time we had a #hplusroadmap-dev channel specifically focused on projects we were doing | 04:15 |
| fenn | also there is plenty of tabletop science to be done | 04:17 |
| BlueLobster | can I be in charge of casting the voice actors | 04:18 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: is dead | 04:22 |
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| kanzure | xtalmath: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 05:25 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KfXY2SvlmQ | 05:25 |
| yoleaux | ABB Robotics - Introducing YuMi. World's first truly collaborative robot. - YouTube | 05:25 |
| kanzure | lsparrish: http://gnusha.org/skdb/ | 05:26 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: you already showed me the YuMi vid | 05:30 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/ | 05:38 |
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| xtalmath | that is for the blu ray laser right? | 05:39 |
| kanzure | "you woulnd't be you" nobody gives a shit, freeze me up scotty | 05:40 |
| xtalmath | I was thinking of using flex hinges, since there wouldn't be any friction stick-slip... | 05:40 |
| xtalmath | its also potentially simpler | 05:41 |
| kanzure | "illegal to have sex with 0 year olds" how about eggs though | 05:41 |
| xtalmath | at sizes of square cm or so, the flex wouldn't have to be very long to have negligible depth variation | 05:42 |
| kanzure | BlueLobster: policy is worthless, if you wont do anything then why do you think you can convince others to do anything? the reason why transhumanism sucks is because hplusmagazine is a stupid idea- making a magazine wont make people magically show up that have skills. you have to brainwash people into learning electronics, programming, molecular biology, how to operate a fucking autoclave, etc. | 05:44 |
| kanzure | BlueLobster: i don't think that killing everyone is a productive plan, but if you want to blow up the planet with me then let's talk. | 05:45 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: the reason i linked to microfluidics is because of your apparent interest in micromanipulators and single-cell manipulation. microfluidics makes that a little bit easier than making nano-precision gantries. | 05:46 |
| xtalmath | ah yeah, I see. well the scale of the micromanipulators will start out with a mere 1/10 to start, and then try to decrease in steps, like 5 sizes per decade or so | 05:48 |
| xtalmath | and I will try to make a mini workshop at each scale, drill press, etc | 05:48 |
| kanzure | feynman wrote a wildly famous essay where he said that what you want is impossible | 05:50 |
| xtalmath | if I can fit a hand in 10 cm x 10cm x 10cm I could fit 1000 of them in a cubic metre | 05:51 |
| xtalmath | it is impossible from a certain point on | 05:51 |
| kanzure | just kidding. he said possible, not impossible. | 05:51 |
| xtalmath | one merely has to look at insect claws etc to know you can go quite small | 05:51 |
| kanzure | why not just use insect claws? | 05:51 |
| xtalmath | because I dont know how to make them | 05:52 |
| xtalmath | or control them | 05:52 |
| kanzure | you breed insects, duh? | 05:52 |
| kanzure | microelectrode arrays, probably | 05:52 |
| kanzure | i think you can skip a few generations if you use photolithography and chemical etching of planar mems machine tools | 05:53 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/mems/ | 05:53 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/ | 05:53 |
| xtalmath | well, my suspicion is that lots of microfabrication companies started out with micromanipulators, to build their machines, and it is one of their semisecrets | 05:53 |
| xtalmath | kanzure, and then what, when I have the tiny parts? how do I assemble them? ... and sometimes you need parts in a mesoscale, then what? nah I would rather have the whole dynamic range to as small as I can get myself, than jump to the smallest scale and stay dependent... | 05:54 |
| kanzure | most of the mems companies are just using previous-generation photolithography shit | 05:54 |
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| xtalmath | how are tiny wires bonded? | 05:55 |
| kanzure | photopolymers | 05:55 |
| xtalmath | with microfabrication I don't only mean chips, it could also mean tiny wirewound resistors, or inductors, or ... | 05:55 |
| kanzure | lasers with small spot sizes | 05:55 |
| kanzure | and high mW/mm^2 | 05:56 |
| * kanzure looks for breakfast | 05:58 | |
| xtalmath | still, I would prefer micromanipulators, it will also make the whole field more accessible to hobbyists, children and artists, like think about PureData or Arduino, merely giving the impression manipulation at the scale is easy (by having tiny hands) will encourage many. think how kids and artists got mindfucked that arduino "sketching" isnt programming. | 05:59 |
| xtalmath | the reality is many people were disgusted by their science teachers, or their methods | 05:59 |
| kanzure | arduino isn't my fault | 05:59 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: sup | 06:13 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: studying for a physics exam | 06:14 |
| kanzure | just remember that everything is spherical cow, even spherical cow | 06:15 |
| eudoxia | in vacuo | 06:15 |
| kanzure | right | 06:15 |
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| kanzure | cluckj: we have replaced your insulin with a placebo, hope you're okay with this | 06:27 |
| cluckj | dude it was supposed to be double-blind | 06:28 |
| cluckj | the science is ruined now | 06:28 |
| cluckj | :< | 06:29 |
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| cluckj | again lol @ scrollback | 06:40 |
| cluckj | this is getting to be a nice part of my morning | 06:40 |
| cluckj | I usually avoid the places where the 22 year old redditor does an ethnic cleansing troll | 06:56 |
| kanzure | back in my day that was age 14 | 06:56 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: I guess the blu-ray module could be used to optically scan a surface as well, with one of the present beamsplitters | 06:56 |
| cluckj | kanzure, yeah I'm being generous | 06:57 |
| cluckj | times have changed | 06:57 |
| cluckj | maybe that says something about the intellectual complexity of it? | 06:57 |
| kanzure | or how angry i was | 06:58 |
| cluckj | lol | 06:58 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: even in laserwrite mode you would still have to scan it over the surface, i don't understand | 06:59 |
| xtalmath | yes, still scanning | 06:59 |
| kanzure | someone should hook up wolfram alpha to https://console.ng.bluemix.net/solutions/watson | 07:01 |
| xtalmath | I thought it was interesting how the paper said even 100nm resolution could be achieved, because thermal activation is bigger in the center of the spot | 07:01 |
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| xtalmath | kanzure: you have a link to science direct for "An ultrarapid method of creating 3D channels and microstructures" but I see pdf fulltext is online now: http://jla.sagepub.com/content/10/1/24.full.pdf+html | 07:15 |
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| kanzure | i have a link? | 07:18 |
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| chris_99 | nmz787, are you about per chance | 09:05 |
| nmz787_i | hey | 09:57 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: ^ | 09:58 |
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| chris_99 | hey, iirc you did some work on shape recognition didn't you? just wondering what alg you used | 09:58 |
| nmz787_i | yea | 10:00 |
| nmz787_i | did some blob recognition, did some panorama stictching type stuff | 10:01 |
| chris_99 | ah, so i'm guessing you thresholded, then did the blob detection? it didn't say then, tag blobs as 'rectangle' etc.? | 10:02 |
| nmz787_i | umm, i don't think I tagged them as rectangles... if anything i noted their circumference to extrapolate a Z depth in the image | 10:07 |
| chris_99 | aha okey dokey | 10:07 |
| nmz787_i | or maybe i mean diameter | 10:08 |
| nmz787_i | i may have done a locally adaptive thresholding | 10:09 |
| chris_99 | just working on decoding data from a magstripe visually, i'm gonna play with hough lines now i think | 10:15 |
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| kanzure | http://www.esma.europa.eu/consultation/Investment-using-virtual-currency-or-distributed-ledger-technology#responses | 10:53 |
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| juri_ | nmz787: you have a SEM too? | 11:29 |
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| delinquentme_ | our chat room is sponsored by lobsters >_< | 11:49 |
| delinquentme_ | longevity bros. | 11:49 |
| delinquentme_ | our curstacean chums | 11:49 |
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| nmz787_i | juri_: ya | 11:58 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: magstripe? are you scattering iron/magnetic particles on a magnetic-strip and taking a picture of the field lines? | 11:58 |
| nmz787_i | juri_: so what was that about an undefined var? the one you pointed me to seemed like it was a function parameter | 11:59 |
| nmz787_i | or were you saying there was some bug in your .escad loader/compiler? | 12:00 |
| nmz787_i | compiler/interpreter | 12:00 |
| chris_99 | yup - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/card/IMG_0284.JPG and here is my little thing picking up the stripes now - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/card/figure_1.png | 12:00 |
| nmz787_i | neat! | 12:00 |
| nmz787_i | your image might benefit from (i think its called contraction then dilation) | 12:01 |
| nmz787_i | to separate the columns from bleeding together like they are | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | ah interesting, even when they do bleed, it seems to detect it ok though, if you see the blue blobs they're separate 'stripes' | 12:03 |
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| juri_ | nmz787_i: i'm taking the word of the compiler. i'll manually inspect later today. | 12:42 |
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| erasmus | does anyone in here have an Alpha-Stim? | 14:09 |
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| erasmus | I'll take that as a no. | 14:32 |
| erasmus | anyone do any transcranial direct-current stimulation? | 14:32 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: you can use polarization to view magnetization of a surface as well | 14:58 |
| chris_99 | yeah, using garnite wafers you mean? | 14:58 |
| chris_99 | i looked at some prices and they're very expensive, like $2k | 14:59 |
| chris_99 | *garnet | 15:00 |
| xtalmath | uhm | 15:02 |
| xtalmath | magneto optical kerr effect | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | yeah you use garnet indictor films | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | for it | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | oh wait this could be a different effect | 15:05 |
| xtalmath | no you just need polarizing beam splitter | 15:05 |
| xtalmath | some lenses | 15:05 |
| xtalmath | 2 polarizers | 15:06 |
| xtalmath | field aperture, diafragm | 15:06 |
| xtalmath | its non invasive | 15:06 |
| chris_99 | oh neat | 15:07 |
| chris_99 | http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-007-1007-8_35 | 15:07 |
| chris_99 | is what i meant | 15:07 |
| chris_99 | i'll look into that cheers | 15:07 |
| xtalmath | you can find what I described in the section "magneto-optic imaging systems" in the book "practical opto-electronics" by protopopov, its a book I recently read | 15:08 |
| chris_99 | neat thanks | 15:08 |
| xtalmath | its also supposedly findable on the interwebs | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | heh | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | so it's literally just two polarisers and a laser? | 15:10 |
| xtalmath | such system is also used to optically read out HDD platters | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto-optic_Kerr_effect#/media/File:Setup_Magneto-Optic-Kerr-Effect_A.png | 15:10 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: that would work for large surface magnetized in same direction, but is not an imaging system! | 15:12 |
| xtalmath | for the imaging system I really recommend you check out protopopov's book | 15:13 |
| chris_99 | okey dokey, will do | 15:13 |
| xtalmath | with PBS, both the illumination, and returned image beam travel parallel to optical axis of objective lens by means of a PBS (polarizing beam splitter) | 15:14 |
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| xtalmath | chris_99: it all depends on what you want to do and how fast | 15:15 |
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| chris_99 | mmm, at the moment i don't need very high res, like you'd get with the kerr effect presumably, but it sounds very interesting, and i've got an optical microscope which would be fun to adapt if i could | 15:17 |
| xtalmath | how many tapes are there to be digitized? once digitized, do the old tapes matter or not? if in a hurry, what will cost more time: making the optical setup? or continuing with powder? | 15:17 |
| xtalmath | optical is faster in the long run, since you wont have to apply powder, but building the setup will cost you some time | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | i was curious if there would be any magnetic traces from zeroed files, with something like a floppy disk too (maybe there isn't) | 15:19 |
| xtalmath | so you are trying to digitize the vertical stripes? i.e. store their widths? | 15:19 |
| chris_99 | yeah i'm simply trying to decode the data from them, it's BMC encoded apparently | 15:20 |
| xtalmath | oh this is like a magnetic swipe card? | 15:24 |
| chris_99 | yeah | 15:24 |
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| ryankarason | OK few | 15:58 |
| ryankarason | whoops.. held down alt key whilst typing =P | 15:59 |
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| nmz787_i1 | .tell chris_99 sooo, if those images are your card stripe data... do we know your credit card number now? :D | 16:12 |
| yoleaux | nmz787_i1: I'll pass your message to chris_99. | 16:12 |
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| nmz787_i1 | xtalmath: got that protopopov book... table of contents looks good | 16:15 |
| xtalmath | he also has an optical heterodyning book if you got hooked | 16:15 |
| xtalmath | basically in the intro to the first book he mentions the motivation came from newcomers in the field messing up experiments, or ordering parts with wrong specifications, and he traced it to practical knowledge that is often not in the public domain, or never absorbed in academic course notes... | 16:17 |
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| nmz787_i | xtalmath: this one? | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | http://rd.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-3-642-02338-5 | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | I actually have asked about optical heterodyning previously online (years ago) and didn't get too much help (there was some good feedback, but not enough to get moving with anything practical) | 16:22 |
| xtalmath | yes that one, also heard its similarly available somehow | 16:29 |
| xtalmath | what did you want to do with optical heterodyning? | 16:29 |
| xtalmath | also, how did you acquire a SEM? | 16:33 |
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| nmz787_i | ah yeah, I got it via my work's subscription | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | SEM was off craigslist, from this place right down the street from me... was $200 and mostly working (except for some beam deflection circuits) so I couldn't pass it up | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | it's a plus that it's the same model as the one ben krasnow has | 16:37 |
| nmz787_i | so i was able to get all the info he had on it | 16:37 |
| nmz787_i | as far as what I wanted to do with heterodyning, it had to do with thinking about shifting DNA and protein specific frequencies into the visible, since UV detectors and light sources are a lot more expensive than visible ones | 16:38 |
| xtalmath | what information is contained in the UV spectrum of DNA and proteins? | 16:49 |
| xtalmath | also $200 ?? | 16:49 |
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| nmz787_i | the 260nm:280nm ratio is indicative of relative DNA to protein concentration | 16:53 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I live in the heart of the silicon forest... so deals can definitely be had | 16:53 |
| nmz787_i | that heterodyning book uses this term "picopharads"... I haven't seen that spelling of farads | 16:58 |
| xtalmath | the author is like a russian working in south korea | 16:58 |
| xtalmath | he also has some other phrases that are wrong, but his message always comes across ;-) | 16:58 |
| xtalmath | UV is a bit annoying for optics | 16:59 |
| xtalmath | many materials absorb it | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | .title http://www.nature.com/news/the-boom-in-mini-stomachs-brains-breasts-kidneys-and-more-1.18064 | 18:02 |
| yoleaux | The boom in mini stomachs, brains, breasts, kidneys and more : Nature News & Comment | 18:02 |
| kanzure | "The current crop of organoids isn't perfect. Some lack key cell types; others imitate only the earliest stages of organ development or vary from batch to batch. So researchers are toiling to refine their organoids — to make them more complex, more mature and more reproducible. Still, biologists have been amazed at how little encouragement cells need to self-assemble into elaborate structures. “It doesn't require any ... | 18:02 |
| kanzure | ... super-sophisticated bioengineering,” says Knoblich. “We just let the cells do what they want to do, and they make a brain.”" | 18:03 |
| kanzure | cool they have a neural tube cell culture working | 18:03 |
| kanzure | and cerebral cortex | 18:03 |
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| xtalmath | what if cancers were just accidental organoids? | 18:22 |
| xtalmath | like an arm trying to develop in a smokers lungs | 18:23 |
| xtalmath | can cells be made to express SU-8 chemicals? | 18:28 |
| xtalmath | nah dumb question | 18:28 |
| kanzure | there's a few "bioprinters" that print out polymers when you shoot laser beams at the cells | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | beep | 20:54 |
| JayDugger | boop | 20:55 |
| kanzure | hmm | 20:59 |
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| erasmus | hi | 23:36 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Aug 01 00:00:27 2015 | ||
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