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| JayDugger | blaap | 01:23 |
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| justanotheruser | bluup | 03:18 |
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| kanzure | bored | 04:11 |
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| JayDugger | Background information for long-term planning: "Opportunities and challenges of a world with negligible senescence" | 04:40 |
| JayDugger | Technological Forecasting and Social Change, Volume 99, October 2015, Pages 77–91, doi:10.1016/j.techfore.2015.06.031 | 04:40 |
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| JayDugger | also at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040162515001985 | 04:41 |
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| kanzure | what were some of the "fix global warming by creative use of terraforming earth" proposals | 05:31 |
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| kanzure | tor should be encouraging mobile phone users to run highly ephemeral, temporary tor exit nodes for 10-20 minutes per day on a random timer | 06:09 |
| kanzure | users who are opposed to running exit nodes full-time may not be opposed to running a temporary exit node | 06:09 |
| kanzure | if they are worried about the 20 minute period each day then they could have even further reduced service, like 20 minutes once every 10 days or something | 06:09 |
| kanzure | with enough users with those settings, there would be a large quantity of exit nodes at any given time anyway, even if individually users are just offering 20 minutes at a time | 06:10 |
| c0rw1n | that's a v good idea :-) | 06:10 |
| c0rw1n | ideally, p2p nets should be flat meshes ... all clients having a full stack of everything | 06:11 |
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| catern | kanzure: is the tor network capable of handling such huge churn? | 07:58 |
| kanzure | 07:18 <+wgreenhouse> kanzure: ephemeral exit nodes aren't really a thing, because it takes time for the directory authorities to notice you and deem you a valid exit | 07:58 |
| kanzure | 07:19 <+wgreenhouse> kanzure: intermittent systems can be useful as bridges, though (entry points for people censored from reaching normal tor entry guards) | 07:58 |
| kanzure | 07:20 <+wgreenhouse> so if a distro wanted to default to running a tor relay, best a bridge :) | 07:58 |
| kanzure | 07:21 <+wgreenhouse> kanzure: also exits should preferably run a fully recursive dns resolver, since they handle all the lookups forwarded to them from tor clients | 07:58 |
| kanzure | 07:22 <+wgreenhouse> that'd be bad news for a random person on their laptop I think | 07:58 |
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| kanzure | http://lesswrong.com/lw/mnp/travel_through_time_to_increase_your_effectiveness/ | 08:07 |
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| maaku | i would visit lesswrong more frequently if articles of that caliberwere more frequent | 08:26 |
| c0rw1n | a simple way is to read the articles from the known-good users | 08:36 |
| c0rw1n | gwern, eliezer, yvain, so8res, lukeprog, alicorn, ... ( ymmv ) | 08:36 |
| kanzure | i can't tolerate any of those users | 08:43 |
| kanzure | phil goetz is sometimes okay, i'm glad he finally quit jcvi | 08:43 |
| c0rw1n | wot ... i totally understand for eliezer and alicorn ( i don't intolerate them, 's just i get some ways how others could ), but gwern and yvain? i'm curious how comes | 08:45 |
| kanzure | gwern is squandering himself by just sitting around blogging | 08:45 |
| kanzure | yvain i dunno | 08:45 |
| c0rw1n | yvain aka scott alexander ? | 08:46 |
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| kanzure | i haven't seen his lesswrong posts | 08:46 |
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| maaku | kanzure: jcvi? | 08:51 |
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| maaku | yvain is ok | 08:52 |
| maaku | i've had serious issues with the writing of everyone else on that list | 08:52 |
| maaku | gwern is squandering himself by not having any practical experience on anything, ever (and not giving credence to why that is important) | 08:55 |
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| JayDugger | Fertilize the oceans by dumping iron into them. | 09:23 |
| JayDugger | Cool the planet by pumping sulfate aerosols. | 09:24 |
| JayDugger | J. Hall's aerovore ideas, and his weather control machine. | 09:24 |
| JayDugger | Solettas and sun shades too, but those usually get described in the context of Martian or Venusian terraforming. | 09:25 |
| JayDugger | Revoke the Test Ban Treaties so we can build nuclear-pulse rockets. (You knew that was coming.) | 09:27 |
| JayDugger | Did I miss any of the terraforming earth ideas? | 09:28 |
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| JayDugger | Ah, that LW post has the same author as the person who did the SRS in a classroom setting experiment. | 09:30 |
| maaku | JayDugger: to my knowledge India, Pakistan, and Israel are not signatory to the nuclear test ban treaties | 09:31 |
| maaku | so go get Orion built in India | 09:31 |
| maaku | so every now and then I join #lesswrong and have a trollish urge to release that distributed, decentralized, unkillable AGI I'm working on | 09:34 |
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| AmbulatoryCortex | israel, india, and pakistan are all signatories to the partial test ban treaty | 09:34 |
| maaku | ah, just not the comprehensive treaty | 09:35 |
| c0rw1n | maaku: i wish to subscribe to your newsletter | 09:35 |
| c0rw1n | > distributed, decentralized AGI | 09:35 |
| c0rw1n | > do want | 09:36 |
| JayDugger | In any practical sense, if you had a nuclear pulse rocket, who's going to stop you after you launch? | 09:36 |
| c0rw1n | presumably you wouldn't get to launch it | 09:37 |
| maaku | c0rw1n: no joke. a few years ago I received two death threats from LW/SIAI fanatics, which prompted a thought exercise on how to construct a dead-mans switch they would respect | 09:37 |
| JayDugger | Agreed. | 09:37 |
| JayDugger | maaku: Really? | 09:38 |
| maaku | and, to my own surprise, I found something that i think would work and only take a year or two of work | 09:38 |
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| c0rw1n | maaku: grm yeah, hopefully some day they'll understand that there's no magic algorithm to overcome the limits of computation ... | 09:39 |
| maaku | JayDugger: yeah really. didn't take it too seriously as far as such things go, but it can't be totally ignored | 09:41 |
| maaku | especially as I'm not trying to be anonymous online | 09:41 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | wait | 09:42 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | france hasn't signed it, use them | 09:42 |
| maaku | haha and they have nukes! | 09:42 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | same with china and north korea | 09:43 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | can't say I blame france for not signing it, considering their history | 09:44 |
| maaku | so who exactly is the nuclear test ban constraining? | 09:44 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | everybody else with nukes | 09:44 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/PTBT_Participation.svg | 09:44 |
| maaku | AmbulatoryCortex: well that explains why France worked with Israel and South Africa | 09:44 |
| crescendo | maaku: didn't realize you hung in this room, hey | 09:44 |
| maaku | crescendo: heyo | 09:45 |
| JayDugger | maaku: and Iraq, though not for their weapons program. Though the same could be said of Israel. | 09:45 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | so yeah, if you want to launch an orion, you'd need to work with frace, china, or north korea(heh) | 09:46 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | also, the other developed countries would probably object to getting EMPed | 09:46 |
| maaku | launch from north korea | 09:47 |
| JayDugger | After you launch, though. See above. | 09:47 |
| maaku | (or the middle of the pacific) | 09:47 |
| JayDugger | Right, which brings you back to France for French Polynesia. | 09:47 |
| JayDugger | You could do chemical lift or on-orbit assembly, so long as you're dreaming. | 09:48 |
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| AmbulatoryCortex | better to just build in on Luna | 09:48 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | fizes all the issues | 09:48 |
| c0rw1n | something somethiong orbital lift mumble murgle | 09:48 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | fixes* | 09:48 |
| JayDugger | Earth to orbit, mumble, mumble. | 09:48 |
| JayDugger | Plus you can't spring a fait accompli in that case. Every military power with a lick of sense would try to stop that launch. | 09:49 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | I doubt you could conceal the construction of an orion spacecraft from spies | 09:50 |
| JayDugger | Probably not, agreed. | 09:50 |
| maaku | step 1: have french polynesia win the 2032 summer olympics | 09:51 |
| maaku | *hosting | 09:51 |
| maaku | then hide it under the construction of giant domed arenas | 09:52 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maaku, concealing it visually wouldn't be the issue | 09:52 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | concealing all the required expertise would be | 09:52 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | and materials | 09:52 |
| JayDugger | Well, you'd want to conceal the launch site too. No sense letting the opposition know it. | 09:53 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maaku, I forget, weren't you a civilian or navy nuke for a while? | 09:58 |
| JayDugger | maaku: step 2? | 10:00 |
| c0rw1n | > transhumanists with nukes | 10:01 |
| c0rw1n | > best plot hook | 10:01 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | militant transhumanists with nukes! | 10:02 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | eh, nah | 10:03 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | pacifist transhumanists with nukes? | 10:03 |
| c0rw1n | if you squint hard enough, MAD is pacifist ... | 10:04 |
| JayDugger | Meh...who'd believe that? "Seriously, everyone, we just wanted them for a fireworks show on Sir Isaac Newton's birthday." | 10:04 |
| maaku | AmbulatoryCortex: nah, physics background, contracting at nasa, bitcoin | 10:04 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | "We just want to ride them to space!" | 10:04 |
| c0rw1n | nobody would believe it for *Newton* | 10:04 |
| c0rw1n | maaayyyybe Feynman | 10:05 |
| maaku | would have been commercial space if not for bitcoin | 10:05 |
| kanzure | jcvi is j. craig venter institute | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | "Would you believe Einstein's birthday?" | 10:05 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maaku, ah, ok | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | "No? How about Dyson?" | 10:05 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | Oppenheimer's birthday? | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i don't understand fight club | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | Maaku, I found https://api.nasa.gov/ earlier this week. Are you involved with it? | 10:07 |
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| maaku | kanzure: fight club is a deconstruction of modern norms regarding mascelinity and the construction of the male analogue of feminism | 10:07 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maaku, wat? | 10:07 |
| maaku | took too many film classes in college | 10:08 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | ah. | 10:08 |
| maaku | AmbulatoryCortex: nah i worked at https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ and http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/ | 10:09 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | neat! | 10:09 |
| JayDugger | Ah. Thank you for your work on those. | 10:10 |
| kanzure | maaku: as far as i can tell it's about a bunch of depressed losers | 10:12 |
| maaku | kanzure: this is also correct | 10:12 |
| c0rw1n | *snrk* | 10:13 |
| maaku | but if you want to know what the artistic message is (why those losers are depressed), it is about the neutering of masculinity in modern society | 10:13 |
| maaku | c0rw1n: back to the previous topic, you'd be interested in a decentralized agi network? | 10:15 |
| c0rw1n | maaku: it's a basis of my personal utopia :D | 10:16 |
| maaku | c0rw1n: being replaced by machines? | 10:17 |
| c0rw1n | replaced, arguably ... | 10:18 |
| c0rw1n | augmented so much by a p2p mesh of exocortices that the humans would be a tiny part of the network | 10:19 |
| maaku | well the framework is simple. a general architecture for specifying minds: a high level virtual machine for thought (too complicated to explain this component over irc), plus a resiliant network using everything we have learned from filesharing and bitcoin | 10:25 |
| maaku | communication is by transmitting sub-brains to be introspected on the other side | 10:25 |
| maaku | so a local mind connects to the network and finds other minds, solving problems by broadcasting challenges and receiving solutions | 10:26 |
| maaku | goals and utility functions are local policy | 10:27 |
| c0rw1n | makes all of the sense so far :-) | 10:29 |
| Betawolf | https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1244002.1244013 | 10:30 |
| Betawolf | .title | 10:30 |
| yoleaux | Guarding security sensitive content using confined mobile agents | 10:30 |
| kanzure | any form of ai too advanced to explain over irc is an ai that is impossible | 10:42 |
| kanzure | fight club is way less interesting than you assholes made it sound | 10:42 |
| kanzure | i want my two hours back | 10:42 |
| JayDugger | Spend the next few minutes researching movies similar to Fight Club. Commit to avoiding them in the future. | 10:43 |
| JayDugger | Won't recover your lost time, but might help avoid future disappointments. | 10:44 |
| kanzure | 17:40 < katydee> I actually practiced it for a while under Val, he used to run this "rationalist fight club" thing in berkeley | 10:54 |
| kanzure | 17:41 < katydee> where he would basically teach aikido to people from the community | 10:54 |
| kanzure | ugh | 10:54 |
| kanzure | when did counter culture get so fucking lame? | 10:54 |
| c0rw1n | what "counter" culture? | 10:55 |
| kanzure | well how do you explain counter culture labs then...? | 10:55 |
| kanzure | and also, repo the genetic opera should have used a better story where they can't just decide that heart-lung machines are fake, or that bodies are the best incubators of organs in dystopic societies | 10:57 |
| kanzure | in conclusion, everything sucks and i hate you people for not stopping them from sucking so much | 10:58 |
| c0rw1n | what, already told you i want a clone of your brain (so i'd get shit done like 100x faster) | 11:02 |
| JayDugger | You should've watched Repo the Genetic Opera for the costumes, not the plot. | 11:02 |
| kanzure | and if you're going to bother graverobbing, you might as well do it for genomic reasons, not for fake chemical reasons | 11:03 |
| kanzure | i think the music was better than the plot, except for all the words | 11:03 |
| kanzure | oops i mean better than the costumes. and plot. | 11:03 |
| kanzure | also i thought the daughter's name was shadow until i learned the poor name they picked, so i'm gonna stick with shadow | 11:06 |
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| maaku | kanzure: building minds is hard. i think it's the more extraordinary claim that there exists a general, computable algorithm that could be conveyed in a few lines of text over IRC | 14:30 |
| FourFire | Ran A marathon today | 14:31 |
| FourFire | Body ailed me | 14:31 |
| FourFire | I damn well want upgrades!, better get to work on my H+ projects | 14:31 |
| FourFire | I want to makep rogress on the BCI this year. | 14:32 |
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| maaku | in the 'make it unkillable' domain, it's interesting to point out that lightning micropayments makes it posible to use bitcoin as a currency for incentivising network resiliance | 14:32 |
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| mgin | fuck death man | 14:32 |
| maaku | 'i'll pay you 25 cents to consider this problem, $5 if you can provide a solution better than X' | 14:33 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | have your distributed AGI also generate bitcoins? | 14:35 |
| c0rw1n | look, if your agi can't do things more profitable than hashing, you've done it wrong | 14:36 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | heh | 14:36 |
| maaku | AmbulatoryCortex: no, no reason to | 14:36 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maybe I'll have my AGI make paperclips | 14:38 |
| maaku | c0rw1n: ? | 14:40 |
| maaku | oh nevermind, misparsed it | 14:40 |
| c0rw1n | ok :-) | 14:40 |
| maaku | yeah in first stages requests would be things like 'generate a set of differential equitions that explains this data' | 14:42 |
| maaku | but the architecture is contineously evolving and tweaking both its suite of algorithms and it's own operation, doing reinforcement learning on past problems | 14:43 |
| maaku | and there's a local api for uploading information into mind-space -- code, data, goals -- or inspecting/modifying existing information / memories | 14:45 |
| maaku | as well as a network daemon that is continuously sharing and trading mind parts with other nodes it is connected to | 14:45 |
| maaku | so if you teach your node something useful -- e.g. a hand-crafted text parser -- that is immediately shared and in common use by all connected nodes that find it useful | 14:46 |
| maaku | as well as being continuously evolved for improvements and test-mapped to other problem domains locally in each node | 14:47 |
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| kanzure | https://tree.opentreeoflife.org/ http://opentreeoflife.github.io/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10244999 | 19:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/16/1423041112.full.pdf | 19:57 |
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