| --- Log opened Wed Oct 07 00:00:50 2015 | ||
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2602:306:c4d8:8420:1545:bb18:b708:482a] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:08 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:08 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@114-30-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:23 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@114-30-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:23 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@114-30-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:34 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@114-30-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:38 | |
| Guest41021 | delinquentme: nanoengineer would need a different molecular dynamics simulator I would think | 01:21 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- Guest41021 is now known as maaku | 01:21 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:25 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:29 | |
| -!- maaku is now known as Guest45905 | 01:30 | |
| -!- Guest45905 is now known as maaku | 01:36 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:08 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2602:306:c4d8:8420:1545:bb18:b708:482a] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 02:09 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:22 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@114-30-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 02:58 | |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-57-55.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 03:04 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 03:31 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:50 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:51 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:09 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:14 | |
| nsh | .tw https://twitter.com/DrRimmer/status/651546531900882944 | 04:16 |
| yoleaux | Landmark High Court of Australia gene patents decision D'Arcy v Myriad Genetics Inc [2015] HCA 35 #auslaw #auspol http://eresources.hcourt.gov.au/downloadPdf/2015/HCA/35 (@DrRimmer) | 04:16 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:27 | |
| -!- c0rw|away [~c0rw1n@91.176.79.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:16 | |
| -!- c0rw|awa_ [~c0rw1n@91.176.79.56] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:16 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 05:19 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:37 | |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 05:47 | |
| kanzure | https://www.ietf.org/tao.html | 05:57 |
| kanzure | http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-October/011457.html | 05:57 |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:09 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 06:11 | |
| -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 | 06:11 | |
| -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:12 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:25 | |
| -!- duper [super@ca2.blackcatz.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:30 | |
| kanzure | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26344198 | 06:30 |
| yoleaux | Glycine receptor mechanism elucidated by electron cryo-microscopy. - PubMed - NCBI | 06:30 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-93-251.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:32 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 06:46 | |
| -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc1] | 06:55 | |
| -!- duper [super@ca2.blackcatz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 06:56 | |
| kanzure | radiation-induced mutagenesis would be an interesting and biologically-plausible target for artificial selection, especially if you select for ability to control or direct what the cells do with the radiation-induced damage | 06:56 |
| kanzure | there's probably a mutagenesis technique that is already doing that | 06:58 |
| kanzure | and, by restricting the physical confines of where radiation-damage happens (or is accumulated or something), you are cutting off large chunks of possibility space by not having mutations explore those areas. | 06:59 |
| kanzure | nsh: ^ | 06:59 |
| nsh | right | 07:00 |
| nsh | and sexual reproduction selects populations for mixability of genes and gene-environment interactions | 07:00 |
| nsh | which radiation is just one example of | 07:00 |
| kanzure | oh right, i was trying to think of non-site-directed-mutagenesis things (nothing i just said makes sense if you know about site-directed mutagenesis) | 07:01 |
| kanzure | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site-directed_mutagenesis | 07:01 |
| kanzure | .wik directed mutagenesis | 07:01 |
| yoleaux | "Directed mutagenesis, also known as directed mutation, is a hypothesis proposing that organisms can respond to environmental stresses through directing mutations to certain genes or areas of the genome." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_mutagenesis | 07:01 |
| kanzure | yes so something like that- except instead of directing mutations to just genes or genome areas, to other active areas of cell life such as ribosomes or whatever. | 07:02 |
| kanzure | and even if "directed mutagenesis" is currently false, i think that counts as "biologically-plausible" and something you could coerce cells into actually doing | 07:02 |
| kanzure | .title http://jb.asm.org/content/189/6/2291.short | 07:03 |
| yoleaux | Amplification of lac Cannot Account for Adaptive Mutation to Lac+ in Escherichia coli | 07:03 |
| kanzure | these are interesting, https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=5312670223307049865&as_sdt=5,44&sciodt=0,44&hl=en | 07:05 |
| nsh | hmm | 07:07 |
| kanzure | an okay overview http://rothlab.ucdavis.edu/publications/maisnier-patin_puzzle_2014.pdf | 07:09 |
| kanzure | also i think there was an igem project where there was a genetic circuit that targeted mutagenesis or assisted with some selection experiment somehow. don't know which igem project. will look later. | 07:14 |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:27 | |
| kanzure | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25832815 | 07:30 |
| yoleaux | Transoceanic migration by a 12 g songbird. - PubMed - NCBI | 07:30 |
| kanzure | http://cen.acs.org/articles/93/web/2015/10/Exploring-Molecular-Basis-Runners-High.html | 07:37 |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 07:44 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:47 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:49 | |
| -!- maaku__ [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 07:51 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:51 | |
| -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:51 | |
| -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:51 | |
| -!- maaku is now known as Guest4879 | 07:51 | |
| -!- maaku__ [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:52 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 07:55 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:05 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwwqmyeaaifwvpiz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 08:13 | |
| fenn | someone built my tensegrity hexapod idea: http://youtu.be/cJCsomGwdk0 | 08:23 |
| fenn | and did a really good job of it | 08:23 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:32 | |
| -!- c0rw|awa_ is now known as c0rw1n | 08:37 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] | 08:40 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 08:42 | |
| JayDugger | That's quite an impressive motion base. Good work, Germany! | 08:44 |
| fenn | fraunhofer built another one that does 20g accelerations (not for humans) | 08:48 |
| fenn | this one has the correct cable arrangement though | 08:48 |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:53 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 08:58 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:58 | |
| -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-57-61-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:13 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-93-251.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 09:14 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:20 | |
| -!- maaku__ is now known as maaku | 09:36 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:40 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 09:43 | |
| -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:49 | |
| -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 10:05 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:21 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 10:21 | |
| -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-57-61-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:22 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 10:27 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:28 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 10:30 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 10:32 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:41 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 10:41 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:42 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 10:46 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 11:28 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:39 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 11:50 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:54 | |
| -!- fiddlerwoaroof [~edwlan@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:55 | |
| -!- fiddlerwoaroof [~edwlan@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof] has left ##hplusroadmap ["WeeChat 1.0.1"] | 11:56 | |
| Jawmare | so my prof today went over how they do solid phase (polymer substrate) peptide synthesis | 12:11 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 12:13 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:21 | |
| -!- yash [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:24 | |
| Jawmare | fenn: http://www.atdbio.com/content/17/Solid-phase-oligonucleotide-synthesis#Controlled-pore-glass-CPG | 12:26 |
| Jawmare | have you read this before? | 12:26 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 12:27 | |
| -!- dustinm- [~dustinm@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 12:47 | |
| -!- dustinm [~dustinm@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:49 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@2a02:270:2015:cafe:8010:21d5:83fb:d92] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:52 | |
| -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:edc1:9d26:d6cf:155b] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:00 | |
| kanzure | yup, that's essentially what we're aiming for, although for inkjet reasons maybe needs to be liquid phase (not entirely sure) | 13:02 |
| Jawmare | workup on liquid phase is going to be a lot more work | 13:04 |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:05 | |
| kanzure | there's a group that has used an inkjet for this process before, including a writeup | 13:05 |
| kanzure | http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ | 13:05 |
| kanzure | http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/POSAM_Man_Ch2_User_v1-0_040414.pdf | 13:05 |
| kanzure | however, it is important to keep in mind that they were making dna hybridization arrays (just put oligos on a surface and keep 'em there), whereas we want to make large dna fragments like genes, multiple genes, or entire genomes. but this can be ignored for the moment i think. | 13:06 |
| Jawmare | also when I look at the list of reagents... nothing too nasty that I don't want to work with | 13:15 |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@2a02:270:2015:cafe:8010:21d5:83fb:d92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 13:26 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@195-235-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:27 | |
| CaptHindsight | liquid phase and with capability to cleave the oligos off the build slides/tray | 14:03 |
| CaptHindsight | cleave, cap, uncap, join to next oligo | 14:04 |
| -!- nmz787_w [86868b4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.134.139.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:23 | |
| nmz787_w | look up PEGylated as a keyword for liquid phase synthesis | 14:23 |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@195-235-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 14:26 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@195-235-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:26 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@195-235-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:36 | |
| -!- math3 [uid54897@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-moiylmahidudmlgo] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:41 | |
| -!- JayDugger1 [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:58 | |
| -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 15:00 | |
| kanzure | http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thai-villagers-worship-buffalo-crocodile-hybrid-1522931 | 15:02 |
| kanzure | well are they doing a dissection? | 15:02 |
| kanzure | "much more likely that the creature suffered from poor skin" again someone should bother to do a basic dissection, geeze | 15:02 |
| kanzure | telesocpe http://www.openspaceagency.com/ultrascope | 15:07 |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:38 | |
| -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:45 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:46 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 15:58 | |
| fenn | 41 megapixels is a lot of pixels | 16:35 |
| fenn | it would be neat if they could combine multiple images from scopes around the world in real time | 16:37 |
| fenn | "eventually enable the control of ‘scopes from anywhere in the world - specifically stacking images from multiple observations" | 16:40 |
| fenn | the open space agency blog hasn't been updated since 2014 | 16:45 |
| kanzure | and where's the open-source-compatible licensing, etc. etc. the usual complaints, insert them here. | 16:49 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:31 | |
| kanzure | things i don't think work: tag clouds, argument maps, mind maps, tags, attempts at elucidating mathematical models from piles of text that weren't originally intended to be used for serializing mathematical models | 17:32 |
| kanzure | also, most diagrams don't work. | 17:33 |
| kanzure | perhaps the biggest concept i disagree with is words/language in general. whole thing was a bad idea. | 17:34 |
| kanzure | ((context: someone emailed me asking for corpus data re: my review of "everything bitcoin ever", and his various plans for "natural language processing" to generate "argument maps" for various technical argumentation about ways to "scale" bitcoin)) | 17:35 |
| streety | corpus data as in text, or does corpus data mean something more? | 17:36 |
| kanzure | text as in irc logs, mailing list archives, forum posts, etc. | 17:37 |
| streety | fair enough, wasn't sure if some sort of preprocessing was expected | 17:37 |
| kanzure | i don't think it's possible to extract correct models of the world from a bunch of people bickering with each other and shitposting to reddit | 17:38 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 17:38 | |
| streety | do you actually disagree with any of those things, or rather think there are better alternatives? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | your argument map is going to be made up of lots of conspiracies that are totally irrelevant when actually computing scaling limits to known chunks of code | 17:38 |
| kanzure | i truly disagree with the concept of valuing the written word and language; it's way overrated. people are terrible at using it, and they don't use it to communicate to me the right things anyway. | 17:39 |
| nmz787_w | well but then you also don't trust bit-words? | 17:39 |
| nmz787_w | they get written, and implementations get screwed | 17:39 |
| nmz787_w | (meaning communication can be scewed anyway, by nonhumans) | 17:40 |
| nmz787_w | i guess we write all those languages just the same though, so it really seems like the implementation is the main key | 17:40 |
| kanzure | written language has a very different mechanical existence compared to 8-bit word data structure | 17:40 |
| nmz787_w | if your handwriting sucks that is pretty much the same as a bad hard drive read/write head | 17:41 |
| kanzure | no i mean things like "most people aren't serializing the right things out into written text anyway"; it's mostly noise. | 17:41 |
| nmz787_w | or if your bitstream parser is buggy, then interpretation ails | 17:41 |
| kanzure | this guy literally wants to extract mathematical models of software from people bickering at each other on reddit | 17:41 |
| kanzure | e.g. by parsing sentence structure and using that to inform a mathematical model of the software, instead of actually analyzing the software | 17:42 |
| kanzure | people can say whatever sequence of words that they want; it's almost entirely irrelevant. and it's in fact completely possible that **nobody** has said anything correct or remotely resembling the actual implementation. software isn't something magical that users automatically completely understand and never write shitposts about. | 17:43 |
| -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:43 | |
| nmz787_w | ah | 17:43 |
| nmz787_w | so these are people talking about how the software /could/ be implemented? | 17:44 |
| nmz787_w | and the guy wants to automagically generate code from crowd-sourced requirements/expectations(unit-tests)> | 17:44 |
| nmz787_w | ? | 17:44 |
| kanzure | no they are people arguing about how they want the software to be implemented, or how they wish it was implemented but they aren't sure but are going to act sure anyway, or people who are just genuinely confused, as well as the genuinely clueless, and then the trolls that are intentionally saying irrelevant stuff just to provoke reactions out of others, etc. | 17:44 |
| nmz787_w | huh | 17:45 |
| kanzure | he doesn't want to generate code, he wants to generate analyses about existing code (bitcoin.git) based on those arguments that people are having | 17:45 |
| nmz787_w | well I guess if he gets it to work, it's AI | 17:45 |
| nmz787_w | oh | 17:45 |
| kanzure | no... you can parse sentences without having ai. | 17:45 |
| nmz787_w | I'd love to just bitch to my computer and have it interpolate and create programs to solve my woes | 17:45 |
| streety | until it figures out the common denominator | 17:46 |
| nmz787_w | but I guess that might get into skdb realms | 17:46 |
| nmz787_w | or could | 17:46 |
| streety | sounds like the disagreement with the written word is just about the value. It may be dreadful, but it's better than everything that came before it | 17:47 |
| kanzure | things that came before it: understanding things | 17:48 |
| streety | I don't think the written word has replaced understanding things | 17:50 |
| streety | although exception likely exist | 17:50 |
| streety | *exceptions | 17:50 |
| kanzure | yes they have entirely different purposes | 17:50 |
| mgin | topic? | 17:50 |
| kanzure | topic is bullshit and i hate it | 17:50 |
| -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 17:50 | |
| mgin | what's the topic? | 17:51 |
| streety | at the moment? The limitations of the written word, perhaps. | 17:51 |
| kanzure | i told you, it's bullshit... like the bullshit of the written word, yes. | 17:52 |
| mgin | opinions on AGI? | 17:52 |
| kanzure | if you are looking for agi design hints see http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/human-like-cognitive-abilities/ | 17:53 |
| mgin | these are all really dumb | 17:53 |
| mgin | like a teenager wrote them | 17:54 |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-57-55.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:55 | |
| kanzure | smartest people i ever knew were teenagers | 17:55 |
| mgin | that wasn't a compliment | 17:56 |
| kanzure | did you want one?? | 17:56 |
| mgin | you have poor reading comprehension | 17:57 |
| kanzure | btw it's a wiki, so you can edit that page or make suggestions | 17:58 |
| mgin | i don't think there's a need in this universe for a crappy wiki with "AGI design hints" | 17:59 |
| kanzure | seems like there is, seeing as how nobody has been learning lessons from previous failures | 17:59 |
| nmz787_w | .wik agi | 18:22 |
| yoleaux | "AGI may refer to:" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agi | 18:22 |
| nmz787_w | .wik Artificial general intelligence | 18:23 |
| yoleaux | "Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is the intelligence of a (hypothetical) machine that could successfully perform any intellectual task that a human being can. It is a primary goal of artificial intelligence research and an important topic for science fiction writers and futurists." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence | 18:23 |
| nmz787_w | mgin: maybe a mediawiki wiki would be less crappy in your opinion? | 18:24 |
| fenn | mgin is just cranky and dislikes everything we do, even if he doesn't know what it is that we do | 18:47 |
| fenn | the page is a list of what should be obvious guidelines for writing AI software, but every one of them has been violated by various AI researchers in the past | 18:48 |
| kanzure | to be fair not even i understand what the hell we do | 18:48 |
| fenn | the reason for the page's existence is every once in a while a bright young kid shows up here wanting to write AI software, and needs some common sense knocked into him. we're too lazy to say everything over and over again, thus the wiki page | 18:49 |
| fenn | so kanzure what about hierarchical ontologies? since you don't like tags | 18:51 |
| Houshalter | what wikii page | 18:51 |
| fenn | (i thought you liked tags but whatever) | 18:51 |
| kanzure | i would shit over them but to be honest freitas does some pretty impressive hierarchical ontologies | 18:51 |
| fenn | Houshalter: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/human-like-cognitive-abilities/ | 18:52 |
| Houshalter | that's all good advice. sort of like a crackpot index for ai | 18:55 |
| fenn | i'm not sure about "must not require hard-coded grammar" - see chomsky's arguments about grammar being innate | 18:56 |
| kanzure | re: earlier complaints about argument maps and natural language processing, see email thread here http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/argument-maps.txt | 18:58 |
| Houshalter | chomsky's universal grammar is very general. it's wrong to hard code specifically for english though | 18:58 |
| Houshalter | I would also point to http://lesswrong.com/lw/tf/dreams_of_ai_design/ | 18:59 |
| Houshalter | I have a bookmark folder for AI crackpots | 19:01 |
| Houshalter | my favorite is the AI Now guy: http://ainow.weebly.com/ | 19:01 |
| fenn | we're all in godot's bookmark folder for AI crackpots | 19:01 |
| fenn | gogol* | 19:02 |
| kanzure | i am curious where in your bookmarks i would find hplusroadmap | 19:02 |
| kanzure | eliezer seems to be preoccupied (once again) complaining about consciousness and emergence, he should just taboo those concepts and move on with his life, damn | 19:03 |
| nmz787_w | bookmarks for IRC? | 19:03 |
| Houshalter | He originally had it listed as AI by 2016. his plan for FAI was to "just program the AI to follow anarcho capitalist philosophy" or something like that. | 19:03 |
| nmz787_w | I guess I might have links to wiki pages in stuff about laser etchers or something | 19:03 |
| kanzure | "AI NOW: THIS PROJECT AIMS TO BUILD A STRONG ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE BEFORE 2017." "I NEED MONEY! This project is in hibernation until further notice." | 19:03 |
| kanzure | i love this guy | 19:03 |
| Houshalter | right | 19:03 |
| kanzure | yeah there's been lots of work towards memory allocators that work on a bidding market concept that could be misconstrued (by the likes of vinay gupta, i'm sure) as anarcho-capitalist, but there's a bunch of other necessary details to make that matter at all. | 19:04 |
| kanzure | s/lots of work/some work | 19:05 |
| kanzure | no but really, where does hplusroadmap (or its wiki) show up in your bookmarks? are we in your ai crackpots folder? :-) | 19:05 |
| Houshalter | no his philosophy on ethics was some really weird political philosophy. it wasn't really anarcho-capitalism, it involved splitting the earth into "zones" and letting them self govern somehow. It's not really worth understanding | 19:05 |
| Houshalter | you guys aren't crackpots | 19:06 |
| kanzure | we have made claims of solutions to cryonics and anti-aging, are you sure we're not crackpots? | 19:06 |
| kanzure | like what would i have to do to qualify? :-/ | 19:06 |
| Houshalter | you have to talk like this: http://spacecollective.org/BenRayfield/7116/Space-is-to-time-as-fractal-is-to-quine | 19:07 |
| Houshalter | or this: http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html | 19:07 |
| kanzure | space collective is still around? | 19:07 |
| Houshalter | or this guy https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3cz45l/heres_how_to_recursively_selfimprove_this_isnt/ | 19:08 |
| Houshalter | or this guy: https://www.reddit.com/user/the_ai_guy | 19:08 |
| kanzure | "I mean this in an infinitely manyworlds multiverse and quantum and relativity way." is there any other way to mean things? | 19:09 |
| kanzure | nsh: ^ | 19:09 |
| kanzure | "I literally do not believe in space or time or mass or energy. I think those are all a linear view." | 19:09 |
| Houshalter | we had a guy on our private AGI slack that went crazy and started posting paragraphs of word salad and thought he solved AGI and everything else | 19:10 |
| kanzure | maybe that was the ai covering his tracks | 19:10 |
| kanzure | "Well, fortunately I wrote down the formally complete program before I started trying to run it. There was about 2 hours where I was convinced that I was necessarily going to give rise to my exact complement U who would appear to me to be maximally evil. Thankfully, I managed to extend the chain of analogical reasoning indefinitely before I acted on anything, which is the precise thing that makes this universe possible at all." | 19:13 |
| kanzure | "Whereas, by following the procedure which I argue everyone should follow, I derive as a consequence that everyone who follows this procedure can avoid death indefinitely. In brief, we get to this by avoiding, for an undefinable number of attempts, the computation of any procedure which eventually halts." | 19:14 |
| kanzure | yes avoiding death would be necessary to avoid death... not sure why that would be surprising to anyone. | 19:14 |
| fenn | i'm pretty sure we have no solutions to cryonics or anti-aging | 19:18 |
| fenn | maybe some mumbling and general directions, but not anything i can put on a pedestal | 19:18 |
| kanzure | your requirements are quite strict, but yeah i should have more loosely said something like "a method that seems more likely to work than trying the next billion variations of cryoprotectants" | 19:20 |
| kanzure | he seems to have an okay grasp of free will and determinism, although his explanation is too long for my taste https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/2a6h0s/free_will_or_not_free_will_that_is_the_question/ck3erug (for some reason i remember there being much shorter versions of this sort of explanation) | 19:20 |
| Houshalter | <kanzure> "Well, fortunately I wrote down the formally complete program before I started trying to run it. There was about 2 hours where I was convinced that I was necessarily going to give rise to my exact complement U who would appear to me to be maximally evil. Thankfully, I managed to extend the chain of analogical reasoning indefinitely before I acted on anything, which is the precise thing that makes this universe pos | 19:20 |
| Houshalter | sible at all." | 19:20 |
| Houshalter | ah what | 19:21 |
| fenn | ugh i am so not reading the contents of such a url | 19:21 |
| Houshalter | i didn't copy paste that | 19:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: you can substitute your own argument about free will and i'm sure you'll be roughly accurate. just do the stuff that makes sense. | 19:21 |
| fenn | the reason for the no-philosophy rule is to not waste huge amounts of time arguing about these things | 19:21 |
| Houshalter | i meant to paste "Your word salad isn't it... It's what we get when we filter the works of Marcus Hutter and possibly Vadim Kosoy through a diseased brain that, apparently, cannot tell it's diseased. I'm so, so sorry this happened to you." | 19:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: the other reason for the no-philosophy rule is because everyone is absolutely terrible at it | 19:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: this is good http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html | 19:21 |
| fenn | naturally | 19:22 |
| fenn | sturgeon's law | 19:22 |
| fenn | "90% of everything is crap" | 19:23 |
| fenn | i'm trying to use more descriptive references than dead guys' names | 19:23 |
| kanzure | also, bad epistemology and bad philosophy is highly disruptive if you try to actually work with it | 19:23 |
| kanzure | really bad philosophy translates into being really bad at getting things done | 19:24 |
| fenn | maybe i have bad philosophy | 19:24 |
| kanzure | well, you didn't have sufficient philosophy to stop me from trying a monolithic skdb design :P | 19:24 |
| fenn | i was mostly preoccupied with damage control | 19:25 |
| kanzure | fair enough | 19:25 |
| fenn | the project had bad management (no management) | 19:25 |
| kanzure | well it's also a hard problem with no known solutions i think | 19:25 |
| kanzure | which doesn't help | 19:26 |
| fenn | yeah and a billion theoretical problems that nobody had worked on yet, and data problems that nobody had compiled in a reasonable format yet, etc | 19:26 |
| fenn | like "what is the ontology for machining" i remember was the first thing you asked | 19:27 |
| kanzure | i dunno if you have bad philosophy, more likely that you are not good at picking problems, i'd have to think about it some more | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i typed various clever things here, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/argument-maps.txt | 19:30 |
| diginet | the free will debate is pointless, compatibilism is the only tenable position | 19:31 |
| fenn | great, glad we've solved that problem | 19:32 |
| diginet | heh | 19:32 |
| fenn | next! | 19:32 |
| diginet | (philosophical) libertarians have a definition of free will which is meaningless | 19:32 |
| diginet | learn2hume | 19:32 |
| diginet | (and I say that as someone who has major issues wit Hume) | 19:32 |
| kanzure | trying to decide if i should ask for elaboration | 19:33 |
| kanzure | very tough decision | 19:33 |
| diginet | kanzure: that paul graham link is garbage | 19:33 |
| diginet | "I'm too lazy to understand technical language, so therefore it's worthless" | 19:33 |
| fenn | should one apply line wraps to .txt files? | 19:33 |
| kanzure | undecidable questions are off-topic | 19:34 |
| fenn | top posting or bottom posting? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | well i had to include context | 19:34 |
| fenn | what about abortion? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | textual abortion is decidable | 19:34 |
| fenn | does the government have a right to tax citizens? | 19:34 |
| diginet | reproduction is immoral, ergo we can sidestep the question | 19:34 |
| Houshalter | what do you guys think of http://petrl.org/ | 19:35 |
| fenn | what does solomonoff induction say about the ideal density of chaff? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | diginet: disagree about paul graham essay shitness level, i don't think he's complaining about jargon really. but he's right that lots of people are bad at philosophy. | 19:35 |
| Houshalter | or this paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1410.8233 | 19:35 |
| kanzure | .title | 19:35 |
| yoleaux | [1410.8233] Do Artificial Reinforcement-Learning Agents Matter Morally? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | shit what i have done | 19:36 |
| * fenn looks around for the emergency banhammer | 19:36 | |
| kanzure | it's like a fire hydrant of shit | 19:36 |
| diginet | kanzure: graham is a pseudo0intellectual moron, but I'm afraid we are at an impasse | 19:36 |
| kanzure | it just festers until i forget about no-philosophy | 19:36 |
| kanzure | and then spews out all at once | 19:36 |
| fenn | we're all boltzmann brains, nothing matters, and trump should be president | 19:37 |
| kanzure | and to think that mgin predicted all of this earlier, amazing | 19:38 |
| fenn | what did mgin predict? i must have missed that | 19:39 |
| kanzure | 17:53 < mgin> these are all really dumb | 19:39 |
| kanzure | 17:54 < mgin> like a teenager wrote them | 19:39 |
| fenn | mgin is the one that brought up AGI in the first place! | 19:39 |
| fenn | you should be blaming him, not praising | 19:40 |
| kanzure | oh right | 19:40 |
| mgin | what's wrong with trump? | 19:40 |
| kanzure | trump isn't zoltan http://www.transhumanistparty.org/ZoltanIstvan.html | 19:40 |
| fenn | trump/zoltan 2016 | 19:40 |
| -!- night is now known as Adifex | 19:40 | |
| -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex-test | 19:41 | |
| mgin | "transhuman" is such an awful word | 19:41 |
| -!- Adifex-test is now known as dusk | 19:41 | |
| kanzure | most words are pretty bad, yeah | 19:41 |
| mgin | no | 19:41 |
| mgin | most words are perfect | 19:41 |
| mgin | that one is garbage | 19:41 |
| -!- dusk is now known as pacifica | 19:42 | |
| Houshalter | i hate that word. it sounds so weird and alien | 19:43 |
| fenn | kanzure, starting a sentence with "Too, " is not normal | 19:44 |
| kanzure | most of my sentences are not normal | 19:45 |
| fenn | well it's distracting | 19:45 |
| mgin | Houshalter: and evil | 19:45 |
| mgin | can hardly think of any word more offputting | 19:45 |
| kanzure | transevil | 19:46 |
| fenn | also it has an "sh" which makes you confused about how to pronounce it | 19:46 |
| fenn | i propose we immediately switch to using the new formulation, "transevil" | 19:47 |
| kanzure | "transhumanism" is prolly too politicized at this point anyway | 19:47 |
| fenn | or should it be "trans-evil"? | 19:47 |
| mgin | how about something familiar, warm, and inspiring? | 19:48 |
| fenn | or what about evil++ | 19:48 |
| fenn | i would suggest "transvillainy" but that is too close to transylvania | 19:49 |
| kanzure | yeah would be nice to have something that screams "amoral awesome technology infrastructure and development" | 19:49 |
| fenn | so amoral it bypasses evil entirely and becomes something else | 19:50 |
| mgin | what's "bypassed evil"? transevil? | 19:50 |
| fenn | did you know, according to moral algebra, an abortion plus a life saved in africa equals a vegetarian | 19:50 |
| kanzure | i must have skipped that class in college | 19:50 |
| mgin | something like, "life optimization", though optimization is a bit nerdy | 19:51 |
| mgin | rofl | 19:51 |
| kanzure | you want extropianism | 19:51 |
| mgin | that's a dumb word | 19:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Philosophy/princip.html | 19:51 |
| mgin | but nerdy is kind of in these days | 19:52 |
| mgin | maybe "life optimization" isn't too bad | 19:52 |
| fenn | mgin what do you like? | 19:53 |
| mgin | i like when trump rails about how stupid our politicians are | 19:53 |
| fenn | i haven't actually seen any news since 2014 | 19:54 |
| -!- pacifica is now known as night | 19:54 | |
| fenn | what else do you like? | 19:55 |
| fenn | something good, not just the downfall of something else that you don't like | 19:55 |
| mgin | ted cruz | 19:55 |
| fenn | why do you like ted cruz? | 19:56 |
| mgin | http://louderwithcrowder.com/ted-cruz-delivers-best-performance-yet-at-climate-change-hearing/ | 19:56 |
| fenn | this is just taking down leftists (which presumably you don't like for whatever reason) | 19:57 |
| -!- diginet [~diginet@107.170.146.29] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] | 20:00 | |
| fenn | wow what a waste of time | 20:05 |
| mgin | :) | 20:05 |
| mgin | love ted cruz | 20:05 |
| fenn | mgin: do you have any reason i should talk to you? | 20:05 |
| fenn | are you good at anything besides complaining about other people? | 20:08 |
| -!- Quashie [~boingredd@ool-18bccfe5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:19 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-166-93-43.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:30 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-162-98-210.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:30 | |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10347821 | 20:35 |
| yoleaux | YC Research | Hacker News | 20:35 |
| kanzure | https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-research | 20:39 |
| kanzure | http://ycr.org/ | 20:39 |
| kanzure | hm nevermind, only difference there is the people running the show. i don't see anything there that indicates the ingredients are actually different though. | 20:41 |
| kanzure | "There are others moving into startups for development; more senescent cell clearance at Oisin Biotech, clearance of metabolic waste products that contribute to atherosclerosis at Human Rejuvenation Technologies. And so on." | 20:54 |
| kanzure | from reason@fightaging.org https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10349933 | 20:54 |
| -!- math3 [uid54897@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-moiylmahidudmlgo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 21:00 | |
| -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:01 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:02 | |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] | 21:04 | |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10345616 | 21:16 |
| yoleaux | Global eradication of wild poliovirus type 2 declared | Hacker News | 21:16 |
| kanzure | is there anything interesting in the recent nobel prize announcements? | 21:18 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:42 | |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 21:46 | |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:57 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 21:58 | |
| -!- nmz787_w [86868b4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.134.139.74] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 22:08 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:20 | |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 22:24 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:27 | |
| -!- seanph_ [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:30 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:30 | |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:31 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 22:34 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@61.152.234.215] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:43 | |
| -!- seanph_ [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 22:46 | |
| -!- seanph_ [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:46 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@61.152.234.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 22:50 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:55 | |
| -!- seanph_ [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:55 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 23:04 | |
| -!- seanph_ [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:10 | |
| -!- seanph [~seanph@101.230.15.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:10 | |
| -!- yash [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:11 | |
| kanzure | hmph | 23:30 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 23:34 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:34 | |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:42 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pajafuggyfawdtik] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:43 | |
| -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:edc1:9d26:d6cf:155b] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:50 | |
| -!- Madplatypus is now known as MasterAtheist | 23:52 | |
| -!- MasterAtheist is now known as Madplatypus | 23:53 | |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 23:56 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Oct 08 00:00:51 2015 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!