| --- Log opened Wed Oct 14 00:00:56 2015 | ||
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| FourFire | kanzure, managed to ask a couple of questions | 01:22 |
|---|---|---|
| FourFire | answer to my question: 12% of xrisk occurring, supposedly before the end of the century, 50% before 2500 | 01:23 |
| FourFire | Answer to your WBE roadmap question: He could write one of two books, an easy one, which would be 1000+ pages, and never be complete, explaining his philosophical perspectives, and a hard one, which would be the much shorter but definitely much more useful WBE roadmap update. He says it needs to be done but isn't happening now and won't without "a lot of pushing" | 01:26 |
| FourFire | supposedly a Randall Koene, of carboncopies.org is "roping together people" to push for this being done. | 01:27 |
| FourFire | kanzure, ^ | 01:27 |
| FourFire | I also invited him to this channel, and he recognised your name. | 01:28 |
| FourFire | no time for silly questions about RPGs, unfortunately, lots of people wanted to talk to him after his talk | 01:29 |
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| poppingtonic | FourFire: awesome, was the talk recorded? | 01:50 |
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| FourFire | it was | 01:54 |
| FourFire | let me see if I can find you a link | 01:55 |
| poppingtonic | thanks | 01:55 |
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| FourFire | hmm doesn't look like it's uploaded yet, perhaps it will become available here later: https://www.conferize.com/conferences/cutting-edge-2015/schedule/into-the-different-future | 01:58 |
| FourFire | I'm at work now, but perhaps I can talk to the video people a bit later today. | 01:59 |
| poppingtonic | cool, thank you! | 02:04 |
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| fenn | http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-most-interesting-star-in-our-galaxy/410023/ | 03:41 |
| fenn | .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.03622v1 | 03:42 |
| yoleaux | [1509.03622v1] Planet Hunters X. KIC 8462852 - Where's the Flux? | 03:42 |
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| flouric | I talked with the video guy and the talks wont be uploaded before next week | 04:09 |
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| kanzure | thanks for the notes | 06:33 |
| kanzure | "SPRITAM manufacturing uses 3D printing to produce a porous formulation [of their anti-epilepsy drug] rapidly disintegrates [the pill] with a sip of liquid, making it easier to swallow" | 06:35 |
| kanzure | society for neuroscience conference is october 20th | 06:36 |
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| kanzure | lots of garbage around star KIC 8462852 http://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.03622v1.pdf | 06:44 |
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| kanzure | oops fenn found that star first | 06:46 |
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| JayDugger | FourFire, thank you. | 07:47 |
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| kanzure | user interface thing for yanking text from stdin into clipboard https://github.com/mptre/yank | 08:04 |
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| chris_99 | neat, it's cool how it lets you select the text | 08:08 |
| poppingtonic | "CLI" radio: cmd.to/fm | 08:09 |
| poppingtonic | yank is slightly less cumbersome than "xclip -sel clip" | 08:10 |
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| JayDugger | and slightly more flexible than a shell alias to the same? | 08:29 |
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| eudoxia | kanzure: 3AU-16AU range and low IR, not really what a dyson swarm would look like | 08:50 |
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| JayDugger | Point it out to Keith Lofstrom for his opinion. | 09:02 |
| JayDugger | It's a slow moving invading dyson swarm... | 09:03 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church | 10:08 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] | 10:08 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 10:08 | |
| [@nmz787 ] [ blueskin ] [ drewbot ] [ jrayhawk ] [ pasky ] [ streety ] | 10:08 | |
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| nmz787_i | man, kids seem like they'd be more satisfying by several orders of magnitude than a grad-student... | 10:42 |
| nmz787_i | https://soundcloud.com/shadowmrgn/ebola-in-town-d-12-shadow-kuzzy-of-2kings | 10:42 |
| nmz787_i | I mean http://hackaday.com/2015/10/14/kids-explore-engineering-with-cartoon-tech-build/ | 10:42 |
| superkuh | I'm sure this has been linked before, but, https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3ocsbi/ama_my_name_is_liz_parrish_ceo_of_bioviva_the/ | 10:46 |
| superkuh | She had "gene therapy" for "Human Telomerase reverse transcriptase and Follistatin". | 10:53 |
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| kanzure | more bitcoin-NG http://arxiv.org/pdf/1510.02037v1.pdf | 11:08 |
| kanzure | whoops, ignore | 11:08 |
| kanzure | (it's junk) | 11:08 |
| kanzure | (and wrong channel) | 11:08 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=45bd5fb6 Bryan Bishop: include links to bitcoin-ng criticism >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/blockchain-testbed/ | 11:21 |
| Houshalter | http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-12-deep-reveals-unexpected-genetic-roots.html | 11:33 |
| FourFire | kanzure, get my message earlier today? | 11:35 |
| FourFire | I also got to speak a bit with Hiroshi Ishiguro in private. | 11:36 |
| FourFire | the lifelike robots guy | 11:36 |
| FourFire | He's a transhumanist in the very real sense of the word: really genuinely wants to replace humanity with something else | 11:37 |
| kanzure | yes got the message earlier, thanks (and jaydugger says thanks as well) | 11:37 |
| kanzure | humanity should be replaced with robohumanity, with lots of beeps and boops | 11:38 |
| FourFire | argh, I should lifelog, and get myself a steady source of income so that I can just attend seminars and conferences like this one, get direct questions with the interesting people and then disseminate it to everyone else who is interested | 11:38 |
| kanzure | conferences often aren't as useful as you would think | 11:39 |
| FourFire | but then I want to brute force synthetic biology so I have to do that instead. | 11:39 |
| kanzure | once you meet some people at a conference, you find that they are the same people at all of the other conferences too, just in different cities | 11:39 |
| kanzure | one of the rules i eventually made for myself was that i would only go to conferences where i was speaking. this helped a lot. | 11:39 |
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| kanzure | (and also, makes more sense than not attending conferences where i'm speaking. that's usually bad for reputation.) | 11:40 |
| kanzure | go to a few carefully-picked conferences, ideally ones where you know at least one or two other people going, but once you've done this at most ~3 times, i think you'll agree with me that the utility is not too high | 11:41 |
| kanzure | on the other hand, you can use this evidence to claim i have been to too many conferences and that i'm being hypocritical http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/ | 11:41 |
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| maaku | there's a huge failure mode of smart (and wealthy) people spending their time and money going from conference to conference talking about the future and not actually DOING anything about it | 11:44 |
| kanzure | i got disillusioned of the transhumanism conferences pretty fast | 11:44 |
| kanzure | same exact set of people every time, plus or mnus | 11:45 |
| kanzure | *minus | 11:45 |
| maaku | the Feel Good Futurist Forum. Different city, different name, same damn thing. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | didn't make me feel good either. usually has to be a good reason for me to hang out with a bunch of people anyway. | 11:46 |
| kanzure | at one point i was subjected to a ray kurzweil talk, people were nodding their heads and agreeing with totally bogus stuff. it was very very weird. | 11:46 |
| maaku | it's a failure mode for the space community too (see e.g. NewSpace, ISDC) | 11:46 |
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| kanzure | eric hunting has been ranting about space community failure modes for a very long time | 11:47 |
| kanzure | i will show you his emails sometime | 11:47 |
| kanzure | he has meticulously documented all of the fucked up reasons for that | 11:47 |
| maaku | there's lessons to be learned there for nano, synthbio, and agi | 11:48 |
| kanzure | eric hunting wanted the space community enthusiasts to transition to working on open-source robotics stuff for space automation | 11:49 |
| kanzure | e.g. instead of people just getting excited about space colonization, why not work on possible software that could one day run on rovers? build little robots at home, or have community derbies for simulation of regolith extractors or whatever. | 11:50 |
| kanzure | but this is of course something approximating "work" and it is hard to convince people to do work when their inertial momentum has been zero since forever. (and since it's not a, you know, paying job) | 11:50 |
| FourFire | maaku, I dropped out, last line is :39:52 | 11:51 |
| FourFire | care to repaste | 11:51 |
| kanzure | FourFire: http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-10-14.log | 11:51 |
| FourFire | tx | 11:51 |
| maaku | kanzure: like this? https://web.archive.org/web/20110924232655/http://regolith.csewi.org/ | 11:53 |
| kanzure | probably | 11:53 |
| kanzure | maybe less formal | 11:53 |
| maaku | the newspace industry is also full of parasitic serial-failure "entrepreneurs", e.g. Bob Richards | 11:55 |
| maaku | that's another worrysome failure mode | 11:55 |
| maaku | too many burned bridges from investments gone sour | 11:55 |
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| kanzure | jgarzik wanted to try a financial contract approach, dunno | 11:56 |
| FourFire | "11:46 < kanzure> at one point i was subjected to a ray kurzweil talk, people were nodding their heads and agreeing with totally bogus stuff. it was very very weird." that's exactly how the MarsOne talk felt like | 11:57 |
| maaku | kanzure: I've got a scheme for self-funding a space program though the clever application of commodity trading, futures markets, and selling old lunar rovers for scrap | 11:58 |
| maaku | it's how I got into bitcoin actually, although I'm now 99% convinced I'll not execute on it, so I should probably write it up | 11:59 |
| kanzure | perhaps copenhagen suborbitals would be interested | 11:59 |
| kanzure | or me | 11:59 |
| maaku | (needed a non-jurisdictional ledger to get around outer space treaty constraints) | 11:59 |
| nmz787_i | some sort of phased array maybe??? http://www.freescale.com/products/rf/rf-cooking/rf-sage:RF-SAGE-PG?tid=elq_cam1296_NL4015&elq_mid=4132&elq_cid=888590 | 12:00 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 12:00 |
| yoleaux | RF Sage|RF Cooking|Freescale | 12:00 |
| maaku | kanzure: actually this is something that could be executed on with either LedgerX or Blockstream's tech stack. I'll write up something short and 0bin it | 12:03 |
| maaku | or see if I can find the old business plan I wrote years back | 12:03 |
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| nmz787_i | why did MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com just email me saying that some email from DIYbio googlegroup couldn't get through??? I emailed diybio@googlegroups.com.... not anyone at yahoo... | 12:30 |
| kanzure | email routing reasons? | 12:31 |
| maaku | do you have a yahoo email? | 12:33 |
| nmz787_i | shouldn't that have gone to some google-groups devops? | 12:33 |
| nmz787_i | no | 12:33 |
| nmz787_i | I replied to the googlegroups email from within gmail | 12:33 |
| nmz787_i | to:diybio <diybio@googlegroups.com> | 12:34 |
| kanzure | email routing is not direct, iirc | 12:52 |
| kanzure | wait, nevermind. i can't find any evidence of this. | 12:53 |
| superkuh | nmz787, phase locking of multiple 250w sources and some sort of algorithm to more evenly distribute heating. It takes into account the cavity shape and location of each source to pick multiple smaller bandwidths within the available frequency range to put power into, http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Electromagnetics/NXP%20RF%20Solid%20State%20Cooking%20White%20Paper_%20Robin%20Wesson_%20NXP%202015.pdf | 12:59 |
| superkuh | http://cache.freescale.com/files/rf_if/doc/support_info/MHT1002N_MHT1003N_MICROWAVE_TRN_SI.pdf is the source of the 250w figure. | 13:02 |
| nmz787_i | so is this like back-EMF sensing, in a way? | 13:08 |
| superkuh | Seems so. It says it's tech directly inherited from cell MIMO stuff. | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | the microwave checks if the signal/field is coupling, and if not it increases power? | 13:09 |
| superkuh | ANd channel sensing. | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | or switches freqs? | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | pretty snazzy | 13:09 |
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| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10388509 | 13:44 |
| yoleaux | 23andMe Wins a Second Life, Raises $115M | Hacker News | 13:44 |
| FourFire | yay | 13:51 |
| kanzure | kosuri would like to meet us | 13:55 |
| kanzure | we should arrange for this to happen | 13:55 |
| kanzure | his response to the inkjet dna synthesizer on hacker news- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10385212 | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | fenn: since you have actually read that paper, would you like to join the inevitable phone call when that happens? | 14:06 |
| kanzure | not sure if i can convince him to show up on irc | 14:06 |
| nmz787_i | very cool | 14:10 |
| kanzure | nmz787_i: have you read that paper? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/Large-scale%20de%20novo%20DNA%20synthesis:%20technologies%20and%20applications%20-%20Church%20-%202014.pdf | 14:11 |
| nmz787_i | maybe/maybe-not... 5 pages will be easy to read tongith | 14:13 |
| nmz787_i | or whatever the spelling of the thing after today is | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | tonight | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | tunafish | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | its a review though, so I may be familiar with the internals, we'll see | 14:15 |
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| kanzure | wasn't tuna already a fish? | 14:20 |
| nmz787_i | watch out for infinite recursion with that one | 14:21 |
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| kanzure | here's one argument against selective breeding towards a cryonics-adapted animal that i would maybe accept: namely, that the mutational load required to get a cryonics-adapted animal would be so extremely high that no amount of breeding back to more stable population members would be enough to offset the mutational damage necessary to support large amounts of cryonics-adaptation. but the argument against this is who cares, it's ... | 15:22 |
| kanzure | ... cryonics-adapted, even if it has terrible bone diseases and only lives 20% of a normal lifespan. | 15:22 |
| kanzure | an example of these diseases is pretty much all the genetic crap diseases that dogs die from | 15:23 |
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| kanzure | Jawmare: that review paper (linked above) is a good overview of recent trends in dna synthesis | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | but at that point, with a mutated dog/rabbit/whatever you'd know some ideas of what to do with synbio, from the diff | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | so it wouldn't be some situation you'd rely on for the complete way forward | 15:25 |
| kanzure | you might not know as easily-- what happens if you have a genome with 100,000 mutations? :-) | 15:26 |
| kanzure | could very easily be a very large big data problem (which is an okay problem to have, in the scheme of things) | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | well did the person only have an argument against, with no alternative? | 15:26 |
| kanzure | nobody was arguing that to me, i was just proposing it for fenn or someone else who is still skeptical about reasonable expectations of selective breeding | 15:27 |
| kanzure | i am still p. interested in that "angry rat" selective breeding project that i mentioned in here the other day; i'm glad that someone has been doing that for >20 years. (64 generations of rats) | 15:28 |
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| drethelin | how angry are these rats | 15:29 |
| kanzure | 64 generations of selection for hatred of humans | 15:29 |
| kanzure | http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/04/17/004234 | 15:30 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-10-11.log | 15:30 |
| drethelin | how do they feel about rats? | 15:31 |
| drethelin | also where can i buy some of these super tame rats | 15:32 |
| kanzure | buy the super angry rats, they sound far more interesting | 15:32 |
| drethelin | hmm | 15:34 |
| drethelin | has anyone been doing this for intelligence? | 15:34 |
| drethelin | what if you crossbred super-angry rats with super-smart ones | 15:34 |
| kanzure | don't know anyone doing selective breeding for intelligence, except a weird texas family that i met in high school once | 15:35 |
| kanzure | part of the problem with selecting for intelligence is there aren't that many good psychometric tests for intelligence in rats | 15:35 |
| kanzure | i would actually suggest selecting for rat communication and language (starting with random chirping, then repeated chirping and less-rnadom noises, and then rat-rat maze coordination through chirping) as a proxy for intelligence | 15:36 |
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| drethelin | that would be interesting | 15:39 |
| drethelin | a good other step would be to look for human-audible chirping | 15:39 |
| drethelin | would open up possibilities for human-rat interactions | 15:39 |
| drethelin | I'm really curious as to what kind of IQ (on a human scale) you can get with really small brains | 15:39 |
| drethelin | It's not entirely about size obviously but size seems to play a big role | 15:40 |
| kanzure | well, i think you are already aware of hydrocephaly | 15:40 |
| kanzure | if there was a really simple cheap quick method of detecting hydrocephaly, we could check everyone's head on the planet and then look at the people with the smallest brains (often a surprisingly low mass and volume) | 15:40 |
| kanzure | also people with large brain tumors and other brain abnormalities | 15:42 |
| kanzure | often a lot of the claims of hydrocephaly are accompanied with absolutely zero brain scans in the literature, or just one or two instead of a full mri/fmri model. | 15:43 |
| kanzure | a really thin single-sheet of brain matter in someone's head should be cause for extreme investigation, gah | 15:43 |
| kanzure | as for "what is the minimum amount of brain matter necessary to support cognitive ability x" one approach that i have suggested is selecting for ability to survive, at previous cognitive levels, after removal of large random chunks of brain matter. or perhaps not random, dunno which way i would prefer. anyway, the idea would be that you would be selecting for the origin of those cognitive abilities to be more physically isolated to a ... | 15:45 |
| kanzure | ... certain region of the brain, which may make them easier to study. | 15:45 |
| kanzure | this is one of the hydrocephaly cases that should have had lots and lots of mri data http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61127-1/abstract | 15:49 |
| kanzure | more popularized- http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070716/full/news070716-15.html | 15:51 |
| kanzure | here's someone with 10% brain volume http://mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/ep/sharon-parker-the-woman-with-the-mysterious-brain/ | 15:52 |
| kanzure | i think that last one is the one that i saw gwern learning about once, http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=6116 | 15:55 |
| kanzure | "In the first link, the chap has an IQ of 75; in the second link ‘Sharon Parker’ actually has a normal brain volume, it’s just oddly distributed. It would’t be surprising if many of the older cases were similar to Sharon’s – brain mostly all there, but not where a 1980s scan would find it." | 16:00 |
| kanzure | oh well | 16:00 |
| kanzure | "The best-documented creations of new species in the laboratory were performed in the late 1980s. William R. Rice and George W. Salt bred Drosophila melanogaster fruit flies using a maze with three different choices of habitat such as light/dark and wet/dry. Each generation was placed into the maze, and the groups of flies that came out of two of the eight exits were set apart to breed with each other in their respective groups. After ... | 16:22 |
| kanzure | ... thirty-five generations, the two groups and their offspring were isolated reproductively because of their strong habitat preferences: they mated only within the areas they preferred, and so did not mate with flies that preferred the other areas.[27] The history of such attempts is described by Rice and Elen E. Hostert (1993).[28][29]" | 16:23 |
| kanzure | from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation | 16:23 |
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| kanzure | "A common example of a population bottleneck is the Northern elephant seal. Due to excessive hunting throughout the 19th century, the population of the northern elephant seal was reduced to 30 individuals or less. They have made a full recovery, with the total number of individuals at around 100,000 and growing. The effects of the bottleneck are visible, however. The seals are more likely to have serious problems with disease or genetic ... | 16:27 |
| kanzure | ... disorders, because there is almost no diversity in the population.[49]" | 16:28 |
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| drethelin | more likely than? | 16:38 |
| ryankarason | we should go to breeding more racoons! they seem smart.. and they have hands!! | 16:43 |
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| dreth | ryankarason actually there is some evidence that humans have been accidentally uplifting raccoons and foxes and whatnot | 16:59 |
| dreth | city breeds of those animals are smarter than ones who still live in the forest | 17:00 |
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| ryankarason | it is sensible.. but we should be putting effort in to it | 17:05 |
| ryankarason | there was a project in Russia for domesticating foxes.. but i think they are taking the wrong path about it all... | 17:05 |
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| nmz787_i | dreth: well that may be a simple side-effect of killing off the stupid ones? | 17:52 |
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| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10387095 | 18:21 |
| yoleaux | The Rocket Man Who Wants To Beat the Billionaires | Hacker News | 18:21 |
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| fenn | some of masten's rocket plumbers used to hang out in ##engineering | 19:46 |
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| fenn | a program to domesticate raccoons would be interesting | 19:54 |
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| fenn | or maybe it was masten himself.. htmm | 20:00 |
| fenn | can't find my old irc logs | 20:00 |
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| dreth | nmz, it's probably both | 20:31 |
| dreth | cities both reward understanding complexity (figuring out how to open doors and trash cans and stuff to find food) and exterminate dumber pests | 20:32 |
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| kanzure | hrm haven't writen that emal to kosuri yet | 21:08 |
| kanzure | he might be a good person to ship the equipment to | 21:15 |
| kanzure | maybe his lab will do the chemistry tweaking | 21:17 |
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| @nmz787 | kanzure: that review is honest | 23:52 |
| @nmz787 | not terribly in-depth, and seemed to focus mostly on assembly strategies | 23:52 |
| fenn | i wonder if this is where marc fawzi got his "energy accounting" ideas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement | 23:54 |
| --- Log closed Thu Oct 15 00:00:57 2015 | ||
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