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| kanzure | hrmph | 05:21 |
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| justanotheruser | hello #hackernews | 05:29 |
| justanotheruser | I'm here to complain about the fact that every day there is a new intro tutorial on deep learning. That is all | 05:29 |
| kanzure | i think you mean #startups | 05:32 |
| justanotheruser | are there a lot of startups in this channel | 05:33 |
| justanotheruser | I thought this was just your blog | 05:33 |
| kanzure | #hackernews is an actual channel that was created by people who didn't know about #startups | 05:34 |
| kanzure | #startups is also an actual channel | 05:34 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, I'm just talking about the website, which features a deep learning/neural network tutorial on the front page daily | 05:35 |
| kanzure | https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2015/10/methuselah-foundation-podcast-an-interview-with-david-gobel.php | 05:40 |
| kanzure | https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2015/10/reporting-from-a-comparative-biology-of-aging-conference.php | 05:40 |
| kanzure | https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2015/10/rejuvenation-biotechnology-2015-keynote-videos.php | 05:41 |
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| eudoxia | has anyone had this problem with sci-hub where it just presents an endless sequence of captchas | 06:59 |
| Aurelius_Work | I read that as cats | 06:59 |
| Aurelius_Work | I'm tired | 06:59 |
| eudoxia | false alarm, i found a way around it | 07:06 |
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| kanzure_ | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-end-viral-diseases-with-dracos#/ | 08:08 |
| kanzure_ | https://www.lifespan.io/campaigns/sens-mitochondrial-repair-project/ | 08:08 |
| kanzure_ | "SENS research has had a banner year this year. Oisin Biotechnology has been seed funded to develop a means of senescent cell clearance, another group demonstrated proof of principle senescent cell clearance and corresponding health improvements in mice, Human Rejuvenation Technologies was founded to develop lysosomal aggregate clearing enzymes as a therapy, a method of synthesizing glucosepane was published in Science, Gensight has ... | 08:08 |
| kanzure_ | ... raised a boatload of money for their allotopic expression work" | 08:08 |
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| fenn | it's too bad senescence isn't the cause of aging | 08:16 |
| maaku | well there isn't one specific cause of aging | 08:17 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/science/editing-of-pig-dna-may-lead-to-more-organs-for-people.html | 08:38 |
| kanzure_ | oh wait we saw this already. nevermind. | 08:38 |
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| CaptHindsight | maaku: time | 08:45 |
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| maaku | touché | 10:14 |
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| kanzure_ | bad programming is the cause | 10:33 |
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| kanzure_ | well, incomplete selection is the cause | 10:36 |
| fenn | 23andme still has some interesting things to say, even though they haven't rolled out the new health-related info | 10:36 |
| kanzure_ | what's the plan for long-term astronomy? | 10:37 |
| kanzure_ | recording the entire universe at high-fidelity resolution over all wavelengths for the next million years will require a very large amount of storage space | 10:37 |
| kanzure_ | presumably you can get rid of a lot of the data because it will just match expectations or predictions | 10:38 |
| kanzure_ | and maybe you can do the same from multiple sources, so that you don't have to store complete astronomical data from n observatories | 10:38 |
| kanzure_ | and even if you do have 100k years of data, how the shit are you going to search that efficiently or run algorithms against that data set? | 10:39 |
| fenn | ohnoes data | 10:39 |
| kanzure_ | query speed might be zero | 10:39 |
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| maaku | kanzure_: opinions on DRACOS? | 10:45 |
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| maaku | i.e. am I throwing money away if I donate? | 10:46 |
| kanzure_ | donations are a bad plan | 10:46 |
| kanzure_ | 11:58 < yashgaroth> DRACO won't work for HIV, or any other virus with latency | 10:46 |
| kanzure_ | venturecommunist was working on DRACO things, i wonder where he went | 10:46 |
| maaku | ok but for the things it does claim, e.g. cold, flu, herpes? | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:39 < venturecommunist> if it's really non-toxic in-vivo in humans presumably it's a cure for AIDs, HPV, HSV, Hep A/B/C/D/E Ebola, Influenza and the Common Cold | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:40 < ParahSailin> the draco antiviral drugs are the simple fusion protein you described? | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:40 < venturecommunist> right | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:42 < ParahSailin> hm good catch on the paper | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:36 < ParahSailin> what would pkr and adaf1 do in e coli? | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:37 < venturecommunist> the genes would produce the proteins, if they're expressed in e coli | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | 15:37 < venturecommunist> the protein being a chimera of TAT, PKR and ADAF1 | 10:47 |
| kanzure_ | http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-01-13.log | 10:48 |
| maaku | call me names, but I care more about eliminating the common cold and flu than HIV | 10:48 |
| kanzure_ | why would that be bad ? | 10:50 |
| fenn | eliminating any of those would be huge | 10:58 |
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| fenn | oh my bad about 23andme, "Customers who received their health information prior to November 22, 2013 will still be able to see their health reports, but those who purchased after that time will only receive their ancestry information as well as access to their uninterpreted raw data." | 11:12 |
| kanzure_ | not clear whether they update the raw data as long as you have a subscription | 11:20 |
| delinquentme | when talking about real time system + interfaces to non-real time code ... how does one typically refer to the non-real-time code? | 11:20 |
| kanzure_ | some of their text i saw yesterday indicated that they might re-run their snp arrays and give better data. but never seen any evidence of this. | 11:21 |
| kanzure_ | delinquentme: batch, offline, blocking, delayed, job, work, task | 11:21 |
| kanzure_ | queued. | 11:21 |
| kanzure_ | should clarify that i haven't seen any evidence, but i also haven't looked | 11:22 |
| kanzure_ | exercise form recognition http://www.dilpreetsingh.me/activity-recognition | 11:32 |
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| maaku | fenn: they just got FDA approval, no? I presume that means everyone will have access to the health info again | 11:59 |
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| maaku | oh n/m. "The revamped reports of genetic tendencies, plucked from spit samples, will not offer customers insights on their risks of developing a range medical conditions, such as Alzheimer’s disease, as previous testing did. Instead, the new test focuses on informing customers about their ancestry, the mutations that could pose disease risks to their children, and traits such as their reaction to alcohol and potential for hair loss." | 12:01 |
| maaku | .title http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/23andme-reboots-genetic-health-testing-now-with-fda-approval/ | 12:01 |
| yoleaux | 23andMe reboots genetic health testing, now with FDA approval | Ars Technica | 12:01 |
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| superkuh | I deleted my 23andMe account a few days ago. Right before this announcement. Right after the news about cops dipping in to their databases. | 12:07 |
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| kuudes | the cops-23andme seems really straightforward to me. that was what has so far prevented me from sampling myself and my relatives | 12:13 |
| kuudes | like, given they wiretap everyone all the time, why wouldn't they invade genetic fingerprint db? | 12:14 |
| superkuh | In retrospect, yes. But I didn't want to believe because I wanted the data. Which... I still have on disk. | 12:14 |
| kuudes | I have considered a german company, which only sends the data to you, and does not store it on their servers | 12:15 |
| maaku | kuudes: it's a bigger deal than you are making. yes the NSA listens on everyone, but they generally haven't been sharing info with local cops | 12:15 |
| maaku | the issue here is that genetic evidence is -way- less reliable than the justice system believes | 12:16 |
| maaku | it works in a homicide investigation because the chances of a false positive with a sample size of just the suspects you had anyway is rather small | 12:16 |
| maaku | but you cast such a broad net, you'll get 10k false positives for every search | 12:17 |
| maaku | i'm innocent, but chances are my DNA 'matches' evidence for a crime somewhere | 12:17 |
| kuudes | well but if you combine that to cell tower records to also close out those who have not been anywhere near the location etc | 12:17 |
| kanzure_ | hey at least they aren't looking at bite marks | 12:17 |
| kanzure_ | oh wait they are looking at bite marks | 12:18 |
| kuudes | locally we have the problem that the passports have fingerprints, which specifically were said will not be used for crime investigation when it was done some 5 years ago, and now they want to include that to crime investigation (and donate that to NSA probably for their weird bonuspoint credit system) | 12:19 |
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| ryankarason | i am also interested in gettting a DNA sampling.. but i haven't looked it to it long enough to know how the data works.. does 23andme own your DNA data? | 12:53 |
| TMA | hmm, I shall use my fingerprintless password while it is still valid. | 12:54 |
| ryankarason | i'd prefer my data to be free.. so it would be nice to just find a way to sample it myself and just publish it on git.. | 12:54 |
| kanzure | lots of people have uploaded their 23andme snp data as a csv file to various places | 12:54 |
| kanzure | like snpedia | 12:54 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: ok.. but do i have all rights to this data? | 12:54 |
| ryankarason | or does 23andme own it? | 12:54 |
| kanzure | what?? | 12:54 |
| kanzure | that's for a judge to decide | 12:55 |
| ryankarason | my thought would be.. that 23andme owns everything in their database | 12:55 |
| TMA | kuudes: if they have the data, assume they store it. No auditor would ever find otherwise | 12:55 |
| ryankarason | and theirfor has the right to sell off my data or even lock me out of it. | 12:55 |
| ryankarason | it would be what i would guess.. but i haven't researched enough to know. | 12:55 |
| kanzure | you should download the data before they "lock you out" | 12:56 |
| ryankarason | i am OK with my data being open.. i just don't like the idea of someone else /owning/ it.. i need to research. | 12:56 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: aye aye. | 12:56 |
| ryankarason | how much $ worth of equiptment would i need to sample it myself? | 12:57 |
| kanzure | uh depends on how much you want to do on your own. make your own snp probe array? buy one? | 12:57 |
| kanzure | why not just sequence your gneome? | 12:57 |
| kanzure | *genome | 12:58 |
| TMA | ryankarason: if you take a photograph of someone, you are the copyright owner of the photograph. the photographee has some rights (right to be used in nondefamatory manner) but not the copyright to the photo | 12:58 |
| ryankarason | right.. i am interesting in sequencing my genome.. but i don't know enoug habout it | 12:58 |
| ryankarason | was thinking about reading Mullis's PCR book | 12:58 |
| kuudes | TMA, yeah, tends that way. though that is *germany*, where such is veery baad, because of Stasi and the Nazis. | 12:58 |
| kanzure | well, these days you go pay a core lab facility to read your genome | 12:59 |
| kuudes | "been there, done that, didn't like it." | 12:59 |
| kanzure | use scienceexchange.com | 12:59 |
| ryankarason | TMA: ah .. OK.. good way to look at it.. i usually don't study copyright stuff because it just makes me sad | 12:59 |
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| TMA | ryankarason: I think the same argument is with DNA data | 12:59 |
| ryankarason | good to know. | 13:00 |
| ryankarason | i was afraid such was the case. | 13:00 |
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| ryankarason | i want to then find some "photographer" that will sell me all rights to the photograph (DNA) of myself. | 13:01 |
| TMA | ryankarason: ultimately it depends on who wins the lawsuit. | 13:01 |
| ryankarason | right.. but i don't have money or influence to win such | 13:01 |
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| maaku | TMA: things aren't so clear when you are paying for a service | 13:03 |
| kuudes | well, photographs are not that good of an analogy, as they have their own, special class of copyright, which requires less of achievement than other classes | 13:03 |
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| ryankarason | is there any precedence yet with DNA stuffs? | 13:04 |
| TMA | maaku: yep. if it is work for hire, then the copyright is transferred; however, if it is a commodity service, the copyright is not transferred by default | 13:05 |
| kuudes | ie. over here copyright requires the work to be as a whole an "artistic work", where the creator has made some non-obvious presentation in the work - for instance things like diagrams, charts etc usually are not under copyright here | 13:05 |
| ryankarason | copyright law is so strange=P | 13:06 |
| kuudes | but photographs are in a special class of photograph, which can be artistic work, but even if it is not, is still considered a photograph, which grants some monopoly to the photographer over that specific photograph, even if the work as a whole is not an artistic work | 13:07 |
| TMA | the burden of proof lies with the party claiming noncopyrightable status (unless the party is the author) | 13:07 |
| kuudes | mainly the latter is to prevent newspapers from not paying to the photographers, I have understood | 13:07 |
| kuudes | the interesting bit is that this is dependent on the technology - drawings and videos are not legally photographs | 13:07 |
| kuudes | so anyones holiday shots are photographs, and thereby protected as such, but their holiday videos are not artistic works likely, because usually such are of such quality, that most anyone would make a similar creation, which makes it not-a-work | 13:08 |
| kuudes | over here in finland of course, such laws have much local nuances | 13:09 |
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| kanzure | http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-22/abbvie-stock-plunges-after-fda-warns-serious-liver-injury-risk-companys-hep-c-treatm | 13:55 |
| poppingtonic | .title http://bioengineer.org/bioengineering-breakthrough-scientists-create-a-working-animal-limb-in-a-lab/ | 13:55 |
| yoleaux | Bioengineering breakthrough: Scientists create a working animal limb in a lab | 13:55 |
| kanzure | nah see quote in logs from yesterday | 13:56 |
| poppingtonic | you discussed this yesterday? | 13:57 |
| poppingtonic | I only see the beagle story, which I remember. | 13:59 |
| kanzure | uh, maybe day before | 13:59 |
| kanzure | ah maybe i was thinking of epibone | 13:59 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p143bISuEJk | 14:00 |
| yoleaux | Rat Tissue Decellularization - YouTube | 14:00 |
| poppingtonic | yeah I've grepped to 18th, no related animal mentions | 14:00 |
| poppingtonic | Well, Ctrl+F'd | 14:01 |
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| kanzure | .title http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/early/2015/10/21/CIRCRESAHA.115.307521.abstract | 14:03 |
| yoleaux | Circulating Growth Differentiation Factor 11/8 Levels Decline with Age | 14:03 |
| kanzure | popularized: http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/10/antiaging-protein-real-deal-harvard-team-claims | 14:04 |
| kanzure | (more "young blood") | 14:04 |
| kanzure | 14:26 < Daeken> kanzure: so, i saw you were trying to reverse-engineer solidworks files a couple years ago ... well, i can successfully parse (the bulk of) solidworks 2015 files >:) | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < Daeken> kanzure: turns out that they're primarily parasolid files wrapped in zlib ... found an old spec from siemens (who apparently owns it now), and managed to write a parser | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < kanzure> yes, it's zlib | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < kanzure> xt spec was helpful yes/no? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < Daeken> very | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < kanzure> parasolid xt spec | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < Daeken> https://gist.github.com/daeken/cf412009224a6770d6dc | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:27 < kanzure> DisplayList is just zlib + what? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:28 < Daeken> hm, not familiar with displaylist. i've just been looking purely at sldprt files | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:28 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openmanufacturing/Fv2Ovmxnfyw | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:28 < kanzure> Contents/DisplayLists__ZLB | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:28 < Daeken> there are a bunch of uncompressed blobs that i don't understand, but all of the compressed data is just pure parasolid xt. | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:29 < kanzure> it's OLE data, and then the "DisplayLists__ZLB" stuff is one of the components | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:29 < Daeken> ahhh, that's right -- you were looking at an older format. they totally changed it with 2015. | 14:30 |
| kanzure | 14:29 < Daeken> no more OLE stuff | 14:30 |
| kanzure | welp that's one way to solve a problem... "wait for solidworks to screw up their own file format" | 14:31 |
| maaku | wait for disgruntled solidworks employee to switch to throw out the legacy in favor of sqlite | 14:31 |
| maaku | (one can hope) | 14:32 |
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| kanzure | http://demoseen.com/sldprt.zip | 14:33 |
| fenn | i bet the displaylist is just a preview or precomputed result of the actual data structure | 14:44 |
| kanzure | daeken claims no preview in solidworks 2015 format | 14:45 |
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| Daeken | yo. | 14:45 |
| kanzure | was just showing him the cantor dust presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bM3Gut1hIk&t=19m40s | 14:45 |
| fenn | oh i wasn't really trying to make intelligent comments on the solidworks format right now | 14:45 |
| kanzure | yeah but makes sense to say those things in here instead of other dead channel | 14:46 |
| Daeken | https://gist.github.com/daeken/d593592694e022269724 <-- those are the three parasolid files inside of 10043-1.sldprt | 14:46 |
| poppingtonic | how did you do that? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | since previous solidworks file format info has happened in here | 14:46 |
| kanzure | daeken says gsf no go for solidworks 2015 files | 14:46 |
| Daeken | (that file is really just a box. you can see the drawing and STL at http://curtawiki.com/10143 | 14:46 |
| Daeken | figure it's a good place to start testing from. | 14:47 |
| kanzure | wonder if it's just parasolid or anything extra | 14:47 |
| Daeken | the compressed chunks are absolutely 100% valid parasolid files. | 14:48 |
| Daeken | the uncompressed data -- your guess is as good as mine. | 14:48 |
| kanzure | well, there's often some metadata | 14:49 |
| Daeken | yeah. i'm assuming it's all the 2d-specific and general solidworks bullshit. | 14:49 |
| kanzure | parasolid format supports some metadata, but i doubt solidworks would be using that | 14:49 |
| kanzure | maybe undo history tee data | 14:49 |
| kanzure | *tree | 14:49 |
| Daeken | ah hah! history is very possible. | 14:49 |
| Daeken | but why wouldn't they compress that? weird decision. | 14:49 |
| kanzure | not sure if history data is preserved on persist | 14:49 |
| kanzure | well there's a lot of history.... | 14:49 |
| maaku | history would be highly compressable | 14:50 |
| Daeken | i know, but history usually compresses very well. | 14:50 |
| Daeken | so them not having it in zlib is weird. | 14:50 |
| Daeken | (and it's very, very clearly not compressed in any other way ... tons of nulls all around.) | 14:50 |
| kanzure | Daeken: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/solidworks/ some random stuff | 14:51 |
| kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/step/alvarestech.com/temp/0steptools/www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/parasolid-to-step2.pdf | 14:51 |
| kanzure | and for STEP itself there is http://stepcode.org/ of course (brlcad uses this) | 14:52 |
| Daeken | "In order to use Parasolid-to-STEP, it is necessary to have the Parasolid system, which" | 14:53 |
| Daeken | is available for licensing from Shape Data, Limited. | 14:53 |
| Daeken | i was hopeful there. haha | 14:53 |
| Daeken | damn | 14:53 |
| kanzure | available from siemens now :-/ | 14:53 |
| Daeken | indeed | 14:53 |
| kanzure | so.. i have pskernel.lib | 14:54 |
| kanzure | and parasolid_kernel.h | 14:54 |
| kanzure | and pskernel.dll psxttoolkit.dll | 14:54 |
| Daeken | unless you just want to use it straight out, i don't think it'll get you anything that the spec does, honestly. that is, i don't think you need to reverse-engineer any of it. | 14:55 |
| Daeken | the spec is ... remarkably sane. | 14:55 |
| kanzure | fwiw again i'm too excited by http://verbnurbs.com/ to care about solidworks these days | 14:58 |
| Daeken | haha, well, i've got a CAD dude redoing all these ancient Curta calculator engineering drawings in solidworks for me ... i want to be able to read these files and do what i want with them | 14:58 |
| Daeken | so clearly, implementing an insane-ass file format is the way to go, instead of just buying some software. | 14:59 |
| kanzure | have him redo something useful like drawings of buran | 14:59 |
| Daeken | eh, not my thing :P | 14:59 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure are blender | 15:00 |
| kanzure | blender no good for engineering cad | 15:00 |
| poppingtonic | sorry.. are blender's nurbs surfaces programmable enough for cad? | 15:00 |
| poppingtonic | hmm.. | 15:01 |
| * poppingtonic looks at verbnurbs | 15:01 | |
| nmz787_i | brlcad doesn't seem to get enough lovin | 15:07 |
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| delinquentme | about to take a phone interview | 17:08 |
| delinquentme | just had a massive sake | 17:08 |
| delinquentme | shake* | 17:08 |
| delinquentme | and now I need to shit | 17:09 |
| delinquentme | fuck sorry. OT. | 17:09 |
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| c0rw1n | delinquentme: "biology, still works. check" | 17:13 |
| * heath likes to imagine delinquentme had a massive sake before the interview | 17:16 | |
| kuudes | that could work or then not, I suppose | 17:31 |
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| nmz787_i | hmm http://www.isparktoys.com/product/strain-the-bioengineering-game/ | 18:29 |
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| kanzure | to push towards fixing career-related impact factor metrics for scholars, all academic papers should use delayed release/reveal of closed-access references | 18:59 |
| kanzure | or use doi-style id numbers (without author names or titles) that can be resolved by some site that reveals no information until the paper is public | 19:00 |
| kanzure | unfortunately this is too inconveniencing for other scholars i think... | 19:00 |
| kanzure | also, since most academic publishers are supposed to honor revocation requests, maybe we can convince all the scientists to revoke **everything** and all historical content not out of copyright yet | 19:01 |
| cluckj | why are impact factor metrics important? | 19:03 |
| yoleaux | 13 Oct 2015 11:15Z <kanzure> cluckj: anthropology stuff about bitcoin, tor, debian http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheDailyBitcoinShow/~5/DQ0MjIHWTmA/1395.mp3 (from scalingbitcoin) | 19:03 |
| kanzure | cluckj: those are still used in many cases to decide career progression things and hiring decisions :-( | 19:03 |
| kanzure | reputation is one of the primary reasons that science is still stuck in shithell | 19:03 |
| kanzure | impact factor can't be computed if all of the references are hidden | 19:04 |
| cluckj | so gross | 19:04 |
| kanzure | but surely you knew this? | 19:04 |
| cluckj | yes :) | 19:04 |
| cluckj | references are important for like...other reasons tho | 19:04 |
| kanzure | like sitting on your desk for 8 months? | 19:05 |
| cluckj | lol | 19:05 |
| kanzure | peer reviewers would be given access to the actual references immediately | 19:05 |
| kanzure | a reference that nobody is able to access is almost useless | 19:07 |
| kanzure | and there's no real reason to have that contribute to people's career metrics | 19:07 |
| kanzure | or to journal metrics | 19:07 |
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| cluckj | wouldn't you have to get the people that profit from using those metrics to do the things that would break them? | 19:09 |
| kanzure | well, they would be publishing open-access papers i think | 19:10 |
| kanzure | and maybe some closed-access, but perhaps they would still do that anyway | 19:10 |
| kanzure | admittedly, the effect of doing this would probably be quite minimal at first... and for a while... because people still physically read nature.com for stuffs. so they will cite that stuff anyway. | 19:11 |
| cluckj | yeah...would it just delay the metric calculation until the data was released? | 19:15 |
| cluckj | haha, shit, the debian access control system that biella is talking about :( | 19:19 |
| cluckj | I need to go find a citation for that | 19:20 |
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| cluckj | that sucks that there is nobody doing bitcoin anthropology | 19:44 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 20:32 |
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| lake_ | http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/10 another good information site | 20:45 |
| kanzure | cluckj: oh you listened | 20:48 |
| kanzure | ? | 20:48 |
| kanzure | i believe the presenter is contractually obligated by the handbook of ethics to provide you a citation if you ask | 20:49 |
| kanzure | about the debian access control system | 20:49 |
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| kanzure | hmph | 21:23 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 23 00:00:04 2015 | ||
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