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| TMA | nmz787: I have made a mistake :( it should end in -e not in -o ; https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adamas https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%B4%CE%AC%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%82 | 01:05 |
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| nmz787 | might be something interesting here http://3dem.ucsd.edu/software.shtm | 02:19 |
| archels | I am not Anders Sandberg, guys | 02:21 |
| archels | but thanks for entertaining the thought. | 02:21 |
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| atomical | hi | 05:27 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning. | 06:15 |
| xentrac | 04:26 < kanzure> hackerspaces are okay but you are sort of limited to whatever randoms happened to show up locally.... which may or may not be useful for understanding how other people make things work out for | 06:23 |
| xentrac | also you select for people who go to hackerspaces, which might narrow your pool pretty seriously | 06:23 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure: but the alternative is...what? university labs? | 06:29 |
| kanzure | to find well-adjusted functioning human adults? hell no | 06:33 |
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| fenn | there ain't no such animal | 06:37 |
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| atomical | normal is a setting on the washing machine | 06:40 |
| kanzure | well-adjusted means not completely stressed out of their mind | 06:40 |
| atomical | kanzure, do you have cancer? | 06:41 |
| kanzure | you gave it to me | 06:41 |
| fenn | arguments in favor of mind control | 06:43 |
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| poppingtonic | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21882902 | 07:21 |
| yoleaux | Metformin as a geroprotector. - PubMed - NCBI | 07:21 |
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| kanzure | fenn did you look at the giraffe cortex paper from the other day | 07:25 |
| fenn | no, why should i care about giraffes | 07:27 |
| fenn | i am currently failing at downloading that metformin review paper | 07:27 |
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| archels | because looking at phylogeny can tell us a great deal about the design of the brain | 07:31 |
| archels | .g Erich Jarvis | 07:32 |
| yoleaux | http://jarvislab.net/ | 07:32 |
| fenn | but aren't giraffes somewhat impractical to study | 07:36 |
| fenn | i mean why not horses | 07:37 |
| kanzure | the group seems to do a lot of comparative neuroanatomy work | 07:43 |
| kanzure | https://cashp.columbian.gwu.edu/laboratory-evolutionary-neuroscience-publications | 07:44 |
| archels | fenn: we must study all the things | 07:45 |
| fenn | i hate neuroanatomy | 07:46 |
| fenn | also i am too busy cleaning up other peoples' messes at the moment to be reading about giraffe brains | 07:46 |
| kanzure | you seemed to like the neurophysiology figure about chimpanzee human brain differences | 07:47 |
| kanzure | if we take diffs between all the mammalian brains then we can better figure out why they are doing anything differently | 07:48 |
| kanzure | also this group preserved a chimpanzee brain from a chimp that was good at computer interfacing tasks | 07:59 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a9bf59cc Bryan Bishop: more links for segregated witness >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ | 09:27 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=807eaf95 Bryan Bishop: include more links in talks >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/security-assumptions/ | 09:27 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5231e9ec Bryan Bishop: remove false attribution? >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ | 09:31 |
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| kanzure | webgl visualization of space debris http://rigb.org/christmas-lectures/how-to-survive-in-space/a-place-called-space/7-space-debris-visualisation | 10:40 |
| kanzure | actual visualization http://www.rigb.org/docs/debris/ | 10:40 |
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| docl | With good lasers we could maybe convert those chunks of space debris into useful equipment (more lasers e.g.) and spread out from there throughout the solar system. | 10:52 |
| kanzure | seems likely to become problem even for non-debris eventually | 10:55 |
| docl | See Keith Lofstrom's server sky proposal for how to make smart thinsats that shepherd debris out of the way. | 10:58 |
| kanzure | could also use "optical lift" somehow | 10:59 |
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| kanzure | ("conservation of electromagnetic helicity" or "conservation of orbital angular momentum") | 11:01 |
| kanzure | "Optical pulling of airborne absorbing particles and smut spores over a meter-scale distance with negative photophoretic force" http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/apl/106/17/10.1063/1.4919533 | 11:01 |
| docl | The fiber lasers we talked about a few days ago are a possible solution. They produce thrust by plasmifying the surface of whatever they hit. Keith L's server sky thinsats are supposed to work just based on solar light pressure (slowly over the course of weeks). | 11:02 |
| docl | http://www.physics.uci.edu/tajima/Ebisuzakietal2015.pdf <- lasers for zapping space debris | 11:04 |
| docl | http://server-sky.com/DecayDebris | 11:05 |
| docl | Server sky will greatly reduce the space debris problem. Fully populated, server sky may someday place hundreds of billions of objects in space, but these objects will all be continuously controlled to high precision, precisely located to micrometers, and will be in a 6411 kilometer altitude near-circular equatorial orbit, devoid of other assets, far above low earth orbit, and out of the flight path of | 11:05 |
| docl | launch vehicles aimed at higher orbits. | 11:06 |
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| drethelin | hi folks | 13:04 |
| kanzure | sup | 13:06 |
| drethelin | in a meeting | 13:08 |
| drethelin | or about to be | 13:08 |
| drethelin | got any hot tips on marketing transfection reagents? | 13:08 |
| kanzure | who's the buyer? | 13:09 |
| kanzure | (stereotype) | 13:09 |
| drethelin | ideally the purchasing manager for a big institution but more likely individual researchers | 13:10 |
| kanzure | http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_main.pdf http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_WG_Proc.pdf | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i | say how its better, how its more cost-effective, how it saves trouble and increases peace of mind | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i | talk about the value proposition of your product vs the others (or the lack of others) | 13:15 |
| chris_99 | get any further with finding a dip probe nmz787_i? | 13:16 |
| kanzure | "quantum computing roadmapping project" http://qist.lanl.gov/pdfs/qc_roadmap.pdf http://qist.lanl.gov/qcomp_map.shtml | 13:20 |
| kanzure | drethelin: get them in the funnel and keep 'em there, cast them away when they are obviously not gonna buy. otherwise keep sending them marketing content and offers and deals. | 13:23 |
| kanzure | nmz787_i: that's not quite what i would recommend.... | 13:23 |
| kanzure | foresight institute recent spam includes a list of everyone working at foresight institute: Allison Duettmann, Christine Peterson, Chris Sapyta, Jim Lewis, Julia Bossmann, Max Sims, Miguel Aznar, Rob Meagley, Steve Burgess, Tad Hogg, Traci Parker | 13:25 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: nah, got an older price list from ocean optics... all were expensive | 13:25 |
| nmz787_i | didn't actually spend more time looking since we last chatted | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i | I might just hack something together with some TOSLINK cables | 13:26 |
| chris_99 | i got a quote from spectraconn for $700 :( | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i | I think I already have a TOSlink splitter, so I'd just need to add some sort of mirror or diffuser I think | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i | as long as whatever i'm testing doesn't matter if it gets contaminated | 13:27 |
| nmz787_i | I went to a friends last week and he was doing some simple acid base color change reactions | 13:27 |
| nmz787_i | and then tried it with an enzyme | 13:27 |
| nmz787_i | so for that dipping something and rinsing it later with tap water should be fine | 13:27 |
| nmz787_i | maybe I could even make something more like a nanodrop machine | 13:28 |
| chris_99 | cool | 13:28 |
| nmz787_i | where you pipet a drop | 13:28 |
| nmz787_i | onto some fibers that are almost touching | 13:28 |
| nmz787_i | I was just playing with USGS elevation data last two nights | 13:28 |
| nmz787_i | converted a friends farm area into an STL file | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | heh nice | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | apparently theres some lidar data for the whole of the UK iirc | 13:29 |
| nmz787_i | ended up using this guide: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/hidden/maps_to_3D.pdf | 13:30 |
| nmz787_i | but I played with the data a bit in python using GDAL | 13:30 |
| nmz787_i | didn't get too far, found a script that generated a 3 gigabyte file which crashed the 3D viewer programs :P | 13:30 |
| chris_99 | heh | 13:31 |
| chris_99 | i was speaking to someone about FM-CW laser distance measurement which seems interesting, where you sweep a laser over a range of frequencies and see how the reflected frequency differs from the frequency your transmitting | 13:32 |
| nmz787_i | makes sense | 13:33 |
| nmz787_i | doppler shift i guess? | 13:33 |
| chris_99 | afaik if both the emitter and reflecting object are static theres no doppler shift? | 13:35 |
| nmz787_i | oh | 13:35 |
| nmz787_i | not moving | 13:35 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 13:35 |
| nmz787_i | distance not speed | 13:35 |
| chris_99 | http://www.radartutorial.eu/02.basics/Frequency%20Modulated%20Continuous%20Wave%20Radar.en.html explains it better than me | 13:35 |
| drethelin | the wide end of the funnel is the problem right now kanzure | 13:36 |
| drethelin | we're talking google ads and whatnot | 13:36 |
| xentrac | nmz787_i: heh, DEM? that brings back memories | 13:36 |
| drethelin | it's not a high traffic market in the first place | 13:36 |
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| nmz787_i | xentrac: yeah, 'NED' | 14:15 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: ever read anything about heterodyning lasers? from what I know about heterodyning, you feed in two signals, and you get out the addition and subtraction of their frequencies... so my guess is if you shot in a red and blue laser, you'd get out something in NIR and also in the UV | 14:31 |
| chris_99 | nice :) it seems theres two ways to do FM-CW, one with a tunable laser, the other just by pulsing the laser itself | 14:32 |
| chris_99 | that sounds very like an RF mixer then also | 14:32 |
| chris_99 | same process apparently | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | .py "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); print 'added: {} subtracted: {}'.format(added, subtracted)" | 14:34 |
| yoleaux | <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8"><title>404 Not Found</title></head><body text=#000000 bgcolor=#ffffff><h1>Error: Not Found</h1><h2>The requested URL <code>/py/%22inp1%3D650%3B%20inp2%3D405%3B%20added%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299792458%2F(inp2))%3B%20subtracted%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299 | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | .wa "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); print 'added: {} subtracted: {}'.format(added, subtracted)" | 14:34 |
| yoleaux | nmz787_i: Sorry, no result! | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | .py "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); " | 14:34 |
| yoleaux | <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8"><title>404 Not Found</title></head><body text=#000000 bgcolor=#ffffff><h1>Error: Not Found</h1><h2>The requested URL <code>/py/%22inp1%3D650%3B%20inp2%3D405%3B%20added%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299792458%2F(inp2))%3B%20subtracted%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299 | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | .wa "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2));" | 14:34 |
| yoleaux | nmz787_i: Sorry, no result! | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | oh well | 14:34 |
| chris_99 | do you know anything about electronic mixers? i'm assuming you can filter the output to get just the difference? | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | that gives 249 and 1075 nm as outputs | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | not too much | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | took one history of radio class | 14:35 |
| chris_99 | http://www.opli.net/opli_magazine/imaging/2015/no-lens-no-problem-for-flatcam-rice-nov-news/ is intriguing | 14:43 |
| bjonnh | yeah you can deconvolute from your mask position as your rays are not coming from the same angle according to their z position | 14:50 |
| bjonnh | so if you have different masks, you can in theory get the picture at different focus planes | 14:51 |
| bjonnh | but this is realy heavy on computation, you have artifacts | 14:52 |
| chris_99 | ah interesting! | 14:53 |
| bjonnh | you will have stuff that look like interference fringe and so on | 14:54 |
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| bjonnh | and it will probably hate a scene which is not either uniformily lighted or lighted from behind | 14:55 |
| bjonnh | will see | 14:55 |
| bjonnh | see look at the paper | 14:56 |
| bjonnh | it is like noise in the fourier space | 14:56 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id= | 14:57 |
| eudoxia | oh no gnusha is fucked :( | 14:58 |
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| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/darkarchitectsofficial/dark-architects-pres-blueprints-001 | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | soundcloud is flash? | 15:35 |
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| _0bitcount | Singularity University deconstructed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq5EVHXViM | 16:22 |
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| jdqx_ | http://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/ | 16:48 |
| kanzure | no | 16:49 |
| kanzure | gwern is lying | 16:50 |
| docl | wow, gwern in wired. | 16:51 |
| kanzure | gwern is so full of shit | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:28 <@gwern> kanzure: the signed messages were all to wrong keys, is the problem. and it made things even harder to writeup. you know the editor didn't even want me to mention the blocksize controversy or nick szabo because we'd have to explain them to regular readers? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:28 < kanzure> huh? shouldn't [the journalists] mention it was the wrong key? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:29 <@gwern> kanzure: all the other satoshi keys were uploaded 2008/2009 as far as we could tell, but of course, the keyservers don't give you any unforgeable timestamps, so it's the same problem as the blog posts - only circumstantial evidence | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:29 < kanzure> you're talking about the satoshin@vistomail.net key, and not the satoshi@vistomail.net key, right? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:30 <@gwern> kanzure: the non-bitcoin.org keys | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:30 < kanzure> btw, satoshi nakamoto never signed anything [in public, using the bitcoin.org satoshi nakamoto key] | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:30 <@gwern> sure, it points to wright being satoshi - but on the alternate theory that wright has been forging all this stuff as a hoax, he could have created the keys recently with backdated timestamps and uploaded them. since they don't offer any evidence one way or other and are hard to explain, they got cut | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:43 < kanzure> 16:41 <gmaxwell> Existance of a pgp signature could be proved without revealing the message, only its hash. | 16:51 |
| kanzure | 16:43 <@gwern> really? I didn't know that | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:44 <@gwern> right. a signature is a signed hash, etc. I'd just never realized before, or needed to, prove possession of a signature rather than message | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:43 < kanzure> are you willing | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:44 <@gwern> hm. I guess that makes sense. you'd be verifying the signature part, not the hash | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:45 <@gwern> I mean, I can pull out the signatures, sure, but as I said, because they're all to the non-bitcoin.org key and there is nothing verifiably timestamping the uploaded keys to 2008/2009, the signed hashes would prove little | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:46 < kanzure> so the signed messages from your purported vistomail leak are not to the bitcoin.org claimed satoshi nakamoto key? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:46 <@gwern> no, I already explained as much | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:46 < kanzure> were these the leaks that dumped out some mike hearn emails? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:46 <@gwern> nope | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:46 <@gwern> this is a totally brand new set of leaks you have heard of solely through wired and gawker today, nothing whatsoever to do with earlier hacks | 16:52 |
| kanzure | gwern deserves to be doxxed and left for dead | 16:52 |
| kanzure | what a waste of everyone's time | 16:52 |
| kanzure | 16:57 < kanzure> gwern: i suggest that in the future if you want wired.com publicity that you can achieve that without wasting everyone's time. don't be so quick to sacrifice your pseudonym's reputation nor the time and patience of your readers. | 16:57 |
| kanzure | 16:55 <kanzure> could you check if pgp.mit.edu timestamps can be trivially forged? | 16:57 |
| kanzure | 16:55 <kanzure> or do you happen to know? | 16:57 |
| kanzure | 16:55 <gmaxwell> they can. | 16:57 |
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| nmz787_i | you kids and your byte-coin | 17:02 |
| kanzure | bytecoin is the name of a bitcointalk.org user. he submitted some interesting proposals back in the day. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | but then there was the cryptonote bytecoin thingy | 17:04 |
| jdqx_ | thx kanzure | 17:04 |
| andytoshi | thx kanzure | 17:26 |
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| kanzure | i also posted this on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_creator_satoshi_nakamoto_is_probably/cxsa9hs | 17:28 |
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| eudoxia | shame. he spent all those years building his reputation as a super smart internet person, and threw it all away on this unsubstantiated bullshit | 17:38 |
| kanzure | "super smart internet person" who wants to grow up and be a journalist..... who buys that. | 17:39 |
| kanzure | his time would be better spent in other directions | 17:40 |
| eudoxia | yes, journalism is bad | 17:40 |
| kanzure | this isn't widely known, mostly because the journalists refuse to publish it | 17:41 |
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| Aurelius_Home | does he want to be a journalist? | 17:51 |
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| kanzure | yes | 17:52 |
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| nmz787_i | qubitcoin is where everything is heading anyway | 18:14 |
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| nmz787_i | hi yashgaroth | 18:34 |
| nmz787_i | hows life? | 18:34 |
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| yashgaroth | not too bad nmz787_i, how bout yourself | 18:47 |
| maaku | kanzure: this was not the first gwern satoshi brain fart | 18:49 |
| maaku | I hope the journalist isn't someon I know | 18:49 |
| kanzure | what was his other brain fart? | 18:50 |
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| bjonnh | http://googleresearch.blogspot.ca/2015/12/when-can-quantum-annealing-win.html | 19:03 |
| bjonnh | ^ | 19:03 |
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| night | what about it bjonnh? | 19:07 |
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| bjonnh | well it works | 19:09 |
| bjonnh | and it start to be able to do some things | 19:09 |
| bjonnh | still not wonderful nor accessible | 19:09 |
| night | d-wave is quite the company | 19:11 |
| night | been around for nearly 20 years, and only sold two machines | 19:11 |
| night | basically toys | 19:11 |
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| nmz787_i | yashgaroth: busy, but decent | 19:13 |
| bjonnh | well I'm not talking about business here | 19:13 |
| night | it'll be nice when google's gate model project starts working | 19:14 |
| night | annealing will never be able to do much | 19:15 |
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| night | comparatively | 19:15 |
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| bjonnh | sure sure | 19:18 |
| bjonnh | I just find that interesting that it start to show some usefulness | 19:18 |
| bjonnh | like being able to spit something coherent | 19:18 |
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| bjonnh | that said we don't see the error rate | 19:19 |
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| night | right | 19:21 |
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| bjonnh | hmm $10m… | 19:28 |
| bjonnh | for the version one | 19:28 |
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| jrayhawk | was the PGP thing previously a part of the article or something | 20:02 |
| jrayhawk | it seems basically inconsequential | 20:02 |
| jrayhawk | might be interesting to see if any of the long-running PGP keyservers have logs | 20:03 |
| jrayhawk | cryptonomicon is pretty old, might ask jweiss@mit.edu if they have logs for it going back to 2009 | 20:05 |
| docl | https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3w0lgy/cmv_technology_in_1980_was_sufficient_to_create/[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D | 20:06 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: that was the only strand of evidence they actually had. and then it turned out to be completely false. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | i don't care about a journalist turning out to be an idiot- that happens all the time. this is about gwern self-destructing. | 20:12 |
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| eudoxia | good game, gwern. good game http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-founder-craig-wrights-home-raided-by-australian-police | 20:13 |
| jrayhawk | uh, well, they had a lot of strands of evidence, just none of it reliable, and I can't see where they put any weight on the PGP thing, just mentioned it as more weird circumstantial stuff | 20:13 |
| jrayhawk | unless there was an earlier version of the article with more of that | 20:14 |
| bjonnh | well if I were him, I would have hidden everything before anyway | 20:15 |
| eudoxia | me, i would have rigged the house with ANFO | 20:15 |
| bjonnh | hah | 20:15 |
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| JayDugger | What a mess... | 20:18 |
| JayDugger | I thought today's kerfluffle would be a 5% rise in BTC/USD, but I checked that first. | 20:19 |
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| kanzure | "Guardian Australia understands the raids are not related to the claims that Wright may have been involved in the creation of bitcoin, but are related to an Australian Tax Office investigation." | 20:34 |
| kanzure | someone is going to trigger a no knock raid and some innocent dude is going to get shot in the head | 20:34 |
| kanzure | this is ridiculous | 20:34 |
| kanzure | gwern is crossing the line here | 20:34 |
| eudoxia | this has certainly got out of hand | 20:37 |
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| kanzure | he replied, i replied- https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_creator_satoshi_nakamoto_is_probably/cxsa9hs | 20:46 |
| eudoxia | the drexler/smalley debate of the second decade of the 21st century | 20:51 |
| fenn | wow this is such a clumsy hoax, how did gwern fall for it | 20:53 |
| eudoxia | HN thread about this happening https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10701785 | 20:57 |
| bjonnh | who is gwern? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | maru dubshinki | 21:03 |
| eudoxia | isn't that a nym too http://ircbrowse.net/browse/haskell?id=10410388×tamp=1286037199#t1286037199 | 21:05 |
| kanzure | yea but remember his origin is from wikipedia, which is something gmaxwell has been watching for a very long time | 21:05 |
| eudoxia | hmm | 21:06 |
| kanzure | apparently his sister doxxed him once | 21:07 |
| kanzure | to some wikipedians | 21:07 |
| eudoxia | wow, doxxed by your own flesh and blood huh | 21:09 |
| eudoxia | also kanzure gwern replied on reddit | 21:09 |
| kanzure | "the raid was coming regardless of whether we published our article" | 21:10 |
| kanzure | yea whatever i'm not going to reply. my comment stands. | 21:11 |
| fenn | well. it's not MY fault that these leaked documents ended up in the australian government's hands, silly journalists, doxx are for kids | 21:13 |
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| kanzure | in other events; https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vt62n/gavin_andresen_explains_why_he_prefers_bip_101/cxsccfo | 21:16 |
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| kanzure | i'm pretty sure i'll get banned if i bring that up in #lesswrong | 21:21 |
| Aurelius_Home | which, the /r/btc link? | 21:22 |
| kanzure | the other one. about him murderng dogs or whatever. | 21:22 |
| kanzure | 20:34 <@gwern> ivan: you know, I wonder if this *is* my first raid. all that darknet work... oh wait, Sheep | 21:22 |
| kanzure | 20:34 <@gwern> no, this would only be my second | 21:23 |
| kanzure | 20:35 * gwern took a lot of heat for that too but was ultimately vindicated | 21:23 |
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| kanzure | 20:36 <@gwern> I hope this time I don't have to wait a year for everyone to accept that I was right | 21:23 |
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| jrayhawk | he also replied again | 21:24 |
| jrayhawk | oh, sorry, you already caught that | 21:24 |
| jrayhawk | durr | 21:24 |
| kanzure | easy to make that mistake since my reply is intentionally absent | 21:24 |
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| fenn | heh "once accepted a challenge to create a pencil from scratch and spent years on the problem, going so far as to make his own bricks to build his own kiln in which to mix the pencil’s graphite" | 21:39 |
| fenn | ^ craig wright | 21:39 |
| docl | :) | 21:40 |
| kanzure | "As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop." | 21:40 |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702104 | 21:40 |
| eudoxia | lol i just saw that comment | 21:40 |
| fenn | people who anonymously call in raids are fair game | 21:40 |
| docl | gwern called in the raid? seriously? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | -_- | 21:41 |
| namespace | docl: No. | 21:41 |
| namespace | docl: Does your ethical calculus seriously change that much if he did versus this being a second order effect? | 21:42 |
| fenn | it's odd that nobody has mentioned that the word "running" has two meanings, 1) operating a business, 2) smuggling | 21:43 |
| fenn | "i've been running bitcoin since 2009" could mean laundering money through bitcoin | 21:44 |
| docl | Depends mostly on how well he could have predicted it, I think. | 21:44 |
| namespace | fenn: Well that would certainly explain his tax troubles. :P | 21:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: some people just like making hoaxes. lots of people exaggerate. | 21:45 |
| fenn | i'm sure he has a good reason to do this hoax, but just looking at his linkedin profile makes my eyes glaze over | 21:45 |
| fenn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigswright | 21:46 |
| * namespace finds the "It's Gawker so it can't be true." argument a little silly, especially since a hypothetical Satoshi has every incentive to discredit themself. | 21:48 | |
| namespace | Of course that's not really an easily falsifiable hypothesis. | 21:48 |
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| fenn | gawker is known for bad journalism, so if you aren't willing to work very hard to verify/invalidate the claims, it's a good shortcut | 21:49 |
| kanzure | trying to decide whether i should reply to sillysaurus | 21:49 |
| namespace | Well as I'm to understand it the Gawker story is semi-sponsored by Wright, the entire point of choosing Gawker would be that they're a rag nobody will believe. | 21:50 |
| namespace | Gawker is of course a tabloid that will publish anything so the incentives work out both ways. | 21:50 |
| fenn | i haven't looked at gawker at all, how is it "semi-sponsored by wright"? | 21:51 |
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| kanzure | haha reddit has been replying to my comment, "oh look he said gawker; ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW, you can stop reading anymore. case closed. anyone spending time following gawker is a total retard or bored to death immortal." | 21:51 |
| namespace | IIRC he had his 'associates' cooperate in writing it but I might have to go back and reread. | 21:51 |
| * namespace does so | 21:51 | |
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| kanzure | replied with, "I used to like the guy (this is crossing a line, for me) and I think he has lots of potential, but there's no reason for civilized society to tolerate anons recklessly calling in raids based on the accumulated weight of lots of non-evidence. When you make an accusation that someone is the richest person of all time, you are putting their life in danger and hanging your reputation on it. Standards of evidence here need to ... | 21:54 |
| kanzure | ... be extremely high because raids are going to happen, stuff's going to get stolen, lives ruined, and people are going to get killed. Leaving out and glossing over the lack of merit of the cryptographic evidence is ridiculous (even for the extremely low standards we have to hold journalists to); he should have withdrawn consent earlier but to be complicit with that sort of editorial distortion field is, like I said, crossing a line ... | 21:54 |
| kanzure | ... where his behavior needs to be explicitly pointed out. This ain't bullying." | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | gwern at least left the kleiman family out of it for the most part | 21:55 |
| jrayhawk | andy cush had no such integrity | 21:55 |
| kanzure | well, i can recognize that gwern didn't write the article. but he still has his name in it. he was working on this "for an entire month". | 21:56 |
| kanzure | he was clearly making false impossible promises to the editors or something | 21:56 |
| kanzure | i am fine with people investigating who satoshi nakamoto might be. i think that's somewhat reasonable. it's not okay to make ridiculous leaps in reasoning about evidence. | 21:57 |
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| eudoxia | this sillysaurus reply is stupidier than the last | 22:04 |
| namespace | Hm, I retract my claims until further notice. | 22:05 |
| fenn | i think this hoax is good news for bitcoin as it provides a sufficiently large distraction to end the block size debate | 22:07 |
| eudoxia | also the price is suddenly up | 22:08 |
| fenn | any publicity does that | 22:08 |
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| namespace | I don't know, I feel like having the owner of the 1.1M fortune would actually be good for bitcoins price. | 22:09 |
| namespace | It takes that unknown out of the equation. | 22:09 |
| namespace | At least in the long run. | 22:09 |
| namespace | *knowing the owner | 22:09 |
| * kanzure looks | 22:10 | |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kanzure | 22:10 |
| kanzure | oops wait | 22:10 |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702001 | 22:10 |
| eudoxia | you know this is one of those situations when i'm glad i have every gawker site in my /etc/hosts | 22:11 |
| eudoxia | fuckers don't deserve clicks | 22:11 |
| kanzure | "Gwern has a long history of obsessive and misdirected behavior on this subject which is likely to cause harm to others. This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"... and this time the evidence consists mostly of counter evidence. For example, these pgp signed emails are signed with the key with short ID 5EB7CB21 which is not the well known key, does not exist in old keyserver dumps, and has a pref-hash-algos list of "8 2 9 ... | 22:16 |
| kanzure | ... 10 11", which is the list that GNUPG started generating a year (commit e50cac1d848d332c4dbf49d5f705d3cbbf074ba1) after the date on the key. The well known key, which the new key claims to be generated within 24 hours of, has "2 8 3" which was an the prior list of hashes." | 22:16 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: when you reply to sillywhoever, you might want to point out that the conversation was about gwern; the other parts of the hoax- like if the guy wanted to be found as satoshi- are unrelated. all sorts of people can have good reason to think they should get "caught as satoshi"... | 22:17 |
| eudoxia | i think that was someone else | 22:18 |
| eudoxia | now sillysaurus is asking what part of the article is unsubstantiated | 22:19 |
| eudoxia | very passive-aggressively | 22:19 |
| eudoxia | i am curious now | 22:25 |
| eudoxia | how many people has gwern accused of being satoshi | 22:25 |
| kanzure | i didn't know he was making accusations at all, until today. i knew he was collecting evidence (similar to myself) but uh.. hrm. well i guess i knew he doxxed that darknetmarket operator somewhere. | 22:27 |
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| kanzure | more comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702001 | 22:59 |
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| kanzure | fenn: btw that 'debate' is maybe concluded see http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html | 23:10 |
| catern | kanzure, why don't you just bet on it | 23:11 |
| catern | perhaps with gwern | 23:11 |
| catern | so he can get some money when he turns out to be right :) | 23:11 |
| kanzure | he's just going to use that money to write more articles. i want him learning electronics, writing software, poking cells, cutting metal. | 23:12 |
| fenn | gwern doing physical stuff doesn't seem likely | 23:12 |
| fenn | writing software might happen though | 23:12 |
| catern | kanzure: but if he's right, maybe he should be writing more articles, since he would clearly be good at it then :) | 23:12 |
| kanzure | catern: you're an idiot | 23:13 |
| fenn | gwern didn't write any articles | 23:13 |
| catern | and he'd only get your money if he was right | 23:13 |
| fenn | correction, gwern didn't write any of the mainstream news articles | 23:13 |
| kanzure | unless you can come up with a reason why the pgp analysis (pasted above, from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702186 ) is wrong; i'm pretty sure your bias for gwern is getting in the way of your ability to think. | 23:13 |
| fenn | his blog posts are good | 23:13 |
| kanzure | he didn't write it, sure. but he sure as heck could have attempted to very loudly and publicly condemn their accusations based on the available evidence. | 23:15 |
| fenn | is sillysaurus one of the wired/gawker journalists? | 23:15 |
| kanzure | unlikely. they are longtime HN commentators. | 23:15 |
| fenn | that doesn't seem relevant | 23:16 |
| kanzure | yeah ok. i guess that doesn't make them less likely to be gawker associate. but dunno. | 23:16 |
| fenn | the predictable response of the bitcoin price rising suddenly in response to this article is reason enough for craig wright to have done the hoax | 23:20 |
| kanzure | oh you don't have to reach that far, pfft | 23:20 |
| jrayhawk | why is it rising, anyway? an MBTC is a sword of damocles for bitcoin value | 23:22 |
| kanzure | "why is it rising"-- this is not how market price works | 23:22 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 23:22 |
| fenn | oh it only jumped 5% but my reasoning stands | 23:23 |
| kanzure | seems like a pump-and-dump would be less effort | 23:23 |
| jrayhawk | the more interesting deception scenario is that somebody close to craig wright really really hates him | 23:23 |
| fenn | i imagine the bitcoin community is immune to pump-and-dump schemes | 23:23 |
| kanzure | hah what? no it's not immune at all | 23:24 |
| kanzure | look up "whale club" | 23:24 |
| kanzure | look at daily threads like https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3vvw48/daily_discussion_tuesday_december_08_2015/ | 23:24 |
| kanzure | people will look at price charts until their eyes bleed trying to divine meaning from technical analysis and "the news" | 23:25 |
| jrayhawk | close enough to edit his blog posts and pepper half-truths into a suggestive narrative about him | 23:26 |
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| kanzure | "(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.)" | 23:57 |
| kanzure | whaaaat an apology | 23:57 |
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| * kanzure checks "win an internet flame war" off his bucket list | 23:57 | |
| kanzure | his defense about "it would be confusing / it would cause confusion in the article" is a good one. of course it would be confusing.... it's *wrong*. | 23:59 |
| kanzure | *isn't a good one | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 09 00:00:32 2015 | ||
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