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| nmz787 | ugh, I just spent like 6 hours or more trying to upgrade grbl on an arduino clone... key takeaway point, doing this (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP) does not allow you to burn a 'sketch', only the bootloader, after that, you have to switch over to using the rx and tx pins to program the sketch | 03:33 |
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| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=e9f5221c nmz787: attachment upload >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/IMAG1624.jpg | 03:47 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=5e340268 nmz787: attachment upload >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/ | 03:51 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=8c71a58a Nathan McCorkle: added images of back of circuit board >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/IMAG1625.jpg | 04:22 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, you ever played with PMTs out of interest? | 04:23 |
| nmz787 | nah | 04:30 |
| nmz787 | jrayhawk: idk but it doesn't seem like the git push I pushed made it fully to ikiwiki... cgit sees it though | 04:31 |
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| abetusk | nmz787, you can reflash the bootloader if you like | 05:32 |
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| delinquentme | hmmmm | 10:04 |
| delinquentme | kanzure: anyone in here right now | 10:04 |
| delinquentme | whos the dude i hate? | 10:04 |
| delinquentme | ummmmm | 10:04 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailn | 10:04 |
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| delinquentme | not in here | 10:04 |
| delinquentme | bolz | 10:04 |
| FourFire | hello delinquentme | 10:05 |
| delinquentme | hio four | 10:05 |
| delinquentme | FourFire are you a chemist by any chance :D | 10:05 |
| FourFire | you seem...drunk or something | 10:05 |
| FourFire | delinquentme, less of a chemist than a biologist and less of either of those than a computer technician, atm | 10:06 |
| delinquentme | got it | 10:07 |
| FourFire | but more of a chemist than most people | 10:07 |
| delinquentme | cool | 10:07 |
| FourFire | I also have close contact with a synthesis company who do stuff "up to 1000 dalton" | 10:08 |
| delinquentme | ahhh cool | 10:09 |
| FourFire | Adittionally I know a student, post Chem masters Degree who is interested in transhumanisty ideas | 10:09 |
| delinquentme | basically i need to know if all bong types can be simplified to " positions and attractions created with electrons " | 10:09 |
| delinquentme | after some reading im pretty sure this is a thing | 10:09 |
| FourFire | ah, yeah I'm not adequate a chemist enough to answer that question, sorry. | 10:10 |
| xentrac_ | bond types | 10:11 |
| xentrac_ | apparently I've been hanging out to much with pot smokers, because it took me a long time to realize that was a misspelling | 10:11 |
| xentrac_ | and although I'm not a chemist either, I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" | 10:12 |
| delinquentme | FourFire: is the masters chemist kid in here? | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | xentrac_: appreciated | 10:13 |
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| FourFire | nope, not sure if they irc, I'll have to spend some time chatting with them, I only met them last week or so | 10:13 |
| xentrac_ | too much | 10:13 |
| FourFire | also, they are older than me... | 10:13 |
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| TMA | delinquentme: from what I remember from high school chemistry classes regular bonds are pairs of electrons shared between atoms. double bonds are quartets shared, triple bonds sextets shared; covalent bonds are way too tricky to explain to high school students; the bonds in the benzene ring (aromatic ring) is somewhat special as there are three electrons per bond totalling 18 for the six bonds; polycyclic aromatic stuff is too dificult to explain to high scho | 10:51 |
| TMA | delinquentme: then there is a hydrogen "bond" between water molecules, where the hydrogen of one is attracted to the electron cloud of oxygen of the other -- this explains why water is liquid while H2S is not liquid, though the latter is heavier -- these bonds are not bonds at all | 10:53 |
| TMA | delinquentme: the underlying quantum physics is way more complex. ;; in summary (tl;dr): most chemical bonds are of the kind you described. the others are way too complex for a layperson to grasp | 10:56 |
| xentrac_ | well, but all of those are positions and attractions created with electrons | 11:01 |
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| delinquentme | bingo | 11:04 |
| TMA | beware, the memories are more than 15 years old; I have never encountered chemistry since | 11:05 |
| xentrac_ | you left out ionic bonds, which are simlilar to hydrogen bonds, and van der Waals bonds | 11:06 |
| xentrac_ | which are also positions and attractions created with electrons | 11:06 |
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| @kanzure | most of chemistry can be described by a giant database of graph transformations | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | naturally, this database is completely proprietary and you don't have access | 11:11 |
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| delinquentme | https://www.collaborativedrug.com/ | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | kanzure: ^ they've got a bunch im sure | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | also. libgen is down | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | someone needs to commercialize that shit | 11:16 |
| xentrac_ | or decentralize it | 11:21 |
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| FourFire | delinquentme, ok yeah I thought you mean Bong | 11:31 |
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| delinquentme | Bong? | 11:32 |
| FourFire | yeah bond types are generalizable, but the energy required to break them has variation for pretty much every permutation of different molecules | 11:32 |
| delinquentme | ^ | 11:32 |
| delinquentme | also I found another mechanical synthesis paper | 11:33 |
| FourFire | so like, Carbon Oxygen in CO² is different to Carbon Oxygen in Gluclose | 11:33 |
| FourFire | even when both are a double bond | 11:33 |
| FourFire | delinquentme, I can try and see if I have some sources on specific energies if that's relevant | 11:34 |
| delinquentme | I think i just need additional substantiation that mechanical forces can distort electron clouds so that atoms can be pushed into conformation | 11:35 |
| delinquentme | i have 2 papers currently | 11:35 |
| delinquentme | ( reading the second one ) | 11:35 |
| FourFire | delinquentme, https://web.archive.org/web/20100625121758/http://www.jhu.edu/chem/lectka/Extras.html | 11:35 |
| FourFire | only IA now sadly, but I think everything is there | 11:35 |
| delinquentme | http://foundry.lbl.gov/ | 11:36 |
| delinquentme | thinking ill be submitting a proposal to these guys | 11:36 |
| fenn | http://foundry.lbl.gov/events/seminar-20151124.html The Rosetta Disk, developed at The Long Now Foundation, is a microscopic archive designed to last for thousands of years. The 7 cm diameter disk is made of nickel, created by electroplating a silicon master etched with a FIB. | 11:55 |
| chris_99 | cool! | 11:56 |
| fenn | too bad they chose a religious text instead of something aliens might possibly be able to interpret | 11:57 |
| fenn | or you know, something useful | 11:57 |
| chris_99 | wheres it say religious text? | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | oh yeah, got it - https://archive.org/details/rosettaproject | 11:59 |
| xentrac_ | fenn: they only started with the religious text, because that's what they have the most translations of. the bulk of the Rosetta texts are not genesis | 12:00 |
| fenn | yeah there is a bunch of linguistic commentary in english | 12:00 |
| xentrac_ | mostly in English, yes | 12:00 |
| chris_99 | http://www.mdisc.com/ is interesting too | 12:01 |
| fenn | there's a lot of whitespace | 12:01 |
| fenn | 640GB ought to be enough for anybody | 12:07 |
| fenn | "A disc with data layer composed of rock-like materials." | 12:08 |
| xentrac_ | sounds like a minimal but not sufficient standard | 12:09 |
| xentrac_ | I mean you don't want it to be olivine! | 12:09 |
| xentrac_ | or obviously halite | 12:09 |
| fenn | 25GB * 15 qty for $67 is not bad | 12:10 |
| fenn | 179/TB | 12:10 |
| chris_99 | i like the idea of the rosetta one, as you can read with a microscope, that seems really cool | 12:11 |
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| fenn | supposedly the data layer is "glassy carbon" whatever that means | 12:37 |
| fenn | .title http://www.google.com/patents/US8389095 | 12:38 |
| yoleaux | Patent US8389095 - Optical data storage media containing substantially inert low melting ... - Google Patents | 12:38 |
| chris_99 | maybe it's diamond heh | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | could someone help this person out https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/issues/48 | 12:39 |
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| chris_99 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassy_carbon | 12:40 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-carbon discovered in 2015, ferromagnetic and harder than diamond | 12:47 |
| fenn | i'll wait for reproducibility confirmation before getting excited | 12:48 |
| chris_99 | sounds very interesting | 12:53 |
| delinquentme | fenn: is this the stuff where its carbon but with no discernable crystaline structure? | 12:53 |
| delinquentme | its just lik a smoosh | 12:53 |
| fenn | glassy carbon is different from amorphous carbon; it only has sp2 orbitals | 12:54 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you should tell fenn about your fleet of microscopes | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | he does not know | 13:05 |
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| delinquentme | fenn: me has STMs which aer taking scans | 13:10 |
| delinquentme | pics or GTFO you say? | 13:10 |
| delinquentme | gladly | 13:10 |
| delinquentme | what emaulz | 13:10 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : are you in touch with azonenberg? | 13:22 |
| delinquentme | cpopell6:I ma | 13:24 |
| delinquentme | hes SUPER helpful | 13:24 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : I got to hang out in his lab a couple times | 13:25 |
| delinquentme | he was the one who confirmed the newstons cradle behavior of electron energy conveyance | 13:25 |
| delinquentme | hes just like endlessly helpful . great dude. | 13:25 |
| delinquentme | and hes got a solid lab setup at his place too | 13:25 |
| cpopell6 | yep | 13:26 |
| @kanzure | cpopell6: did you know that i met his roommate (john) back in 2007? it was before he met azonenberg. | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | OK so | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | apparently he was the one that convinced azonenberg to do all the decapping work. | 13:27 |
| cpopell6 | kanzure : nope. I think in 07 zonenberg and I didn't know each other, that didn't come til later | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | question on the index above. Those are the facilities at the molecular foundry | 13:27 |
| cpopell6 | Marc Chevrette I met via college political club stuff :P | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | which would be best suited to the work of mechanoligation that im after? | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | probably you need to do femtoliter water bubbles with single molecules inside of the bubbles | 13:28 |
| @kanzure | and then move the bubbles into position for chemical reactions | 13:28 |
| @kanzure | dunno if femtoliter water bubbles are possible | 13:29 |
| @kanzure | plus, water causes side reactions here | 13:29 |
| delinquentme | "Organic and Macromolecular Synthesis Facility" or "Biological Nanostructures Facility" ... and possible the "Nanofabrication Facility" .. which works on "biological nanosystems" | 13:29 |
| @kanzure | so... not water. | 13:29 |
| delinquentme | kanzure:all of the experiments i've seen arent in solution | 13:29 |
| delinquentme | hence they'd not be using STM ... unless its like oil immersion STM | 13:30 |
| delinquentme | also i read 3 research papers over the last 24 hours | 13:31 |
| delinquentme | yay | 13:31 |
| delinquentme | IDK if this is what I want to be doing w my life though | 13:31 |
| delinquentme | more engineering | 13:31 |
| delinquentme | less sitting and reading | 13:31 |
| cpopell6 | Hmmmm | 13:35 |
| cpopell6 | I can't remember | 13:35 |
| cpopell6 | I think we were doing femtoliter bubbles in my research | 13:35 |
| cpopell6 | well, I guess it wasn't a bubble, it was a droplet | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | kanzure: cpopell6 thats the scale that you have to like mechanically FLING the droplet out of its well no? | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | how do that separation? | 13:47 |
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| delinquentme | also. FUCKING capillary action | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | kanzure: cpopell6 fenn nmz787 did i mention how much i fucking HATED capillary action when we were doing demonpore shit? | 13:48 |
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| delinquentme | i feel like thats some method for getting TINY fucking volumes of liquid though | 13:48 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : electrohydrodynamic ink-jet printing | 13:49 |
| cpopell6 | with low-wick titanium nozzles | 13:50 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : I can dig up my thesis if you want | 13:51 |
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| delinquentme | cpopell6: nah thats sufficient of a method for me :D | 13:56 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : I did shape modeling. normal electrohydrodynamic printing will give you bubbles on rebound in certain fluid regimes, but you won't get it in the femtoliter regime-- | 13:56 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : surface energy is something like a hard times larger than kinetic energy | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | at that scale absolutely | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | my profs made me prove it to them | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | because they were dicks | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | >_> | 13:57 |
| delinquentme | something about #dominantForcesAtGivenScales | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | 'Are you really going to make me model vortex forces here?' | 13:57 |
| delinquentme | because they could | 13:57 |
| delinquentme | lol | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | *3 months later* | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | 'Why did you waste time on this?' | 13:57 |
| delinquentme | KEK | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | 'You told me to.' | 13:57 |
| cpopell6 | 'Why didn't you tell us <DOMINANT FORCES>' | 13:58 |
| * delinquentme comforts cpopell6 | 13:58 | |
| cpopell6 | 'I did' | 13:58 |
| cpopell6 | 'Well, we can't be expected to listen to what you have to say' | 13:58 |
| delinquentme | HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA | 13:58 |
| cpopell6 | it's okay, I almost got them fired for being shitheads >_> | 13:58 |
| delinquentme | fucking lold | 13:58 |
| cpopell6 | other story: they miss dozens of meetings over 2 years--minimal apology | 13:58 |
| cpopell6 | I miss one, they make me be on campus 9-5 the rest of my research time there to be available at their leisure, never take advantage | 13:59 |
| cpopell6 | (I start skipping out again after 2 months) | 13:59 |
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| delinquentme | cpopell6: fuck man I want to like buy you a cheesecake or something hahaha | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | thats such fucking bullshit | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | it also makes me happy I didnt take that path | 14:05 |
| cpopell6 | delinquentme : meh. I got out with a masters degree in a field I don't do :P | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | not all bad :D | 14:05 |
| cpopell6 | but it's a prestige degree so now I can do whatever I want degree wise (shut up kanzure) and they don't care because they see 'MS from RPI' on it | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | still though. cheesecake is delicious. | 14:05 |
| cpopell6 | yes it is | 14:06 |
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| cpopell6 | delinquentme : probably moving out to the west coast this late fall btw | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | ^^ | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | lol best !!!! | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | NICEE | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | norcal? socal? | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | i feel like fenn is still out here and hasnt fucking checkd out my stuff | 14:06 |
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| cpopell6 | nah, Seattle | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | OOOOO | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | would love friends in the rainy haze | 14:06 |
| cpopell6 | I grew up in SoCal and I don't want to deal with NorCal | 14:07 |
| cpopell6 | Seattle has decent salaries and lower property prices | 14:07 |
| cpopell6 | plus Sami (gf) wants to go work at Microsoft | 14:07 |
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| delinquentme | i love salamis | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | and low property prices | 14:10 |
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| delinquentme | Jawmare: kanzure says you're a bad ass chemist | 14:23 |
| delinquentme | What are your thoughts on the plausibility of ligating long chains of DNA mechanically ? IE without ligase . | 14:23 |
| Jawmare | you mean with organometallic catalysts? | 14:25 |
| Jawmare | It is plausible, yes | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | Jawmare: there are no catalysts involved | 14:26 |
| Jawmare | but sometimes nature does things better than us | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | unless catalysts means some organic / inorganic molecule pair | 14:27 |
| Jawmare | oh I didn't saw mechanically | 14:27 |
| delinquentme | true. Yeah Im about to submit the first round of research backing to someone at the Molecular Foundry to see what they think on the plausibiliyt | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | ya. | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | grabbing DNA and shoving it into another piece of DNA | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | distorting / reforming the electron clouds to create the covalent bonds on the sugar phosphate backbone | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | i've got 2 papers which demonstrate the viability of mechanical bond breaking / making in inorganics | 14:29 |
| Jawmare | Yes. it is plausible | 14:29 |
| delinquentme | cool | 14:29 |
| Jawmare | but is it financially viable? I would say no | 14:29 |
| Jawmare | or I don't think you can do it better than how nature does it | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | Jawmare: the application is in sourcing ~2kbp chains from current denovo providers | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | and pushing those into linear chains | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | to be determined: if we can get useful molar weights of the DNA | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | high fi polymerase will probaby be a big part of the amplification | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | but right now the market shows that ~2kbp is around what can easily be outsourced | 14:32 |
| delinquentme | and then theres an upper limit on the market size of 1) whats the biggest commerical genome of interest and 2) replication fidelity invivo vrs in vitro ( ecoli or yeast ) | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | the commercial DNA denovo market is ~2billion right now | 14:33 |
| Jawmare | I don't really know that much about the biotech side | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | yeah im just kinda practicing my pitch | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | we also have icecream sandwitches | 14:34 |
| Jawmare | once you talk about money | 14:34 |
| Jawmare | their eyes light up | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | $$$$ | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | I mean we both want financially stable businesses :D | 14:36 |
| xentrac_ | VCs don't | 14:40 |
| xentrac_ | I don't know Molecular Foundry | 14:42 |
| delinquentme | http://foundry.lbl.gov/facilities/index.html | 14:42 |
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| nmz787_i | fenn: FWIW I work part-time at the company that fabricated that rosetta disc... I actually have a similar piece at home (except it is a buddhist knot, where the knot is actually some sanskrit text) | 16:15 |
| nmz787_i | the ones I have were unsealed... so they will get scratched easily | 16:15 |
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| xentrac_ | they won't oxidize, though, will they? | 16:19 |
| nmz787_i | it's gold, so shouldn't | 16:20 |
| nmz787_i | also pretty much unreadable without differential interference contrast microscopy | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | (you can see the knot feature) | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | actually maybe the features are large enough to see without DIC | 16:21 |
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| xentrac_ | why don't they etch the pits deep enough to get iridescent color contrast? | 16:29 |
| xentrac_ | Like 300nm deep should give you deep blue, right? | 16:29 |
| nmz787_i | not sure, probably better to read the papers/press-releases that longnow has put out | 16:30 |
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| xentrac_ | yeah, sorry | 16:31 |
| xentrac_ | I guess 150nm | 16:31 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: jrayhawk any idea why this commit isn't reflected in ikiwiki? http://diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=8c71a58a3a54ee631bdb155fdf80f22ce7cd254e | 16:31 |
| nmz787_i | xentrac_: probably something with hardiness, sputter rate, something like that | 16:31 |
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| jrayhawk | [Mon Feb 01 03:47:34 2016] [error] [client 50.39.166.238] Aborting commit due to empty commit message., referer: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/laser_etcher/ikiwiki.cgi?page=NEJE_Laser_Etcher&from=index&do=create | 16:52 |
| jrayhawk | how odd | 16:52 |
| jrayhawk | well, I can confirm this is at least totally Ikiwiki's fault. | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i | yay! | 16:58 |
| nmz787_i | (in that it isn't apparently MY fault) | 16:58 |
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| Aurelius_Home | I have a friend looking for a job in the SF area. Background is a code school type thing. She's a fast learner. | 17:19 |
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| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=3cc209d3 laser_etcher: Commit failed ikiwiki.cgi changes >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/index/ | 17:55 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=4edf3c60 laser_etcher: Merge branch 'master' of /srv/git/laser_etcher >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/ | 17:55 |
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| @kanzure | wha | 17:56 |
| jrayhawk | nmz787_i: I just upgraded Ikiwiki. Let me know if the problem recurs. | 17:56 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/3d-printing-fumes-new-science/ | 18:00 |
| yoleaux | New Research Sheds Light on 3D Printing Fumes | Hackaday | 18:00 |
| nmz787_i | jrayhawk: Thanks! the wiki page looks like it got the message now! | 18:00 |
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| nmz787_i | diybio I guess: http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/build-your-swarm-control-cockroaches-for-under-30/ | 20:37 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 20:37 |
| yoleaux | Build Your Swarm: Control Cockroaches for Under $30! | Hackaday | 20:37 |
| Jawmare | wowwww | 20:39 |
| Jawmare | wow | 20:39 |
| Jawmare | thats so cool | 20:39 |
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| nmz787_i | you know it is not really new? | 20:41 |
| nmz787_i | as they mention, backyard brains did this (openly) and even sold a kit years ago | 20:41 |
| Jawmare | no i dont | 20:42 |
| nmz787_i | https://backyardbrains.com/products/roboroach | 20:42 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 20:42 |
| yoleaux | The Roboroach | 20:42 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm | 20:42 |
| nmz787_i | I am even a contributor on their paper, thanks to a kickstarter (I think) donation: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm | 20:43 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 20:43 |
| yoleaux | The RoboRoach: Control a living insect from your smartphone! by Backyard Brains —Kickstarter | 20:43 |
| nmz787_i | (well maybe not a contributor, but I was thanked or something) | 20:43 |
| nmz787_i | "acknowledged" | 20:43 |
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| @kanzure | since when is a sarcasmiculum not a cellular organelle? what happened to it? | 22:02 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Feb 02 00:00:21 2016 | ||
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