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| kanzure | archels: if emulation time is expensive (because of computational resources and such), and if sleep is actually necessary, | 05:42 |
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| kanzure | archels: then a bunch of the cost of emulation is going to be for sleeping :) | 05:42 |
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| kanzure | which is not efficient at all. and not cost effective. it's basically a sleep tax... | 05:46 |
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| cluckj | what about naps | 05:47 |
| cluckj | are they taxed at the same rate? | 05:47 |
| kanzure | well i guess you could move yourself to lower-end hardware, but i dunno why that would be cheaper-- it would probably take even longer to emulate the same nap | 05:48 |
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| cluckj | you probably don | 06:35 |
| kanzure | hm? | 06:35 |
| cluckj | t need the same amount of cycles for emulating sleep that you would for being "awake" | 06:35 |
| kanzure | unfortunately we don't know that yet | 06:36 |
| cluckj | maybe we need sleep because the alien smartphone our universe is running on only has so much computing power | 06:37 |
| kanzure | except there are things happening to the brain during sleep :\ | 06:39 |
| kanzure | the brain is doing things | 06:39 |
| kanzure | ... brain things. | 06:39 |
| cluckj | yeah but there's body stuff that isn't happening | 06:40 |
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| JayDugger | kanzure, cluckj, did either of you get a draft copy of Hanson's Age of Em? | 07:06 |
| kanzure | nope | 07:07 |
| cluckj | no, sorry | 07:08 |
| JayDugger | Ah, nor did I. His presentations and excerpts hint at him discussing this point. | 07:10 |
| JayDugger | I wondered if you two had started from there. | 07:11 |
| cluckj | nah | 07:13 |
| JayDugger | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-p-O200jo | 07:14 |
| JayDugger | Two hours of him outlining the book. | 07:15 |
| JayDugger | Plus some slides. | 07:15 |
| JayDugger | Skip the first 9 minutes | 07:16 |
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| JayDugger | Whoa, when did YouTube get a "Skip to Presentation" button. That's new to me. | 07:19 |
| JayDugger | Anyway, about the 53 minute mark, if skipping and my memory serve. | 07:20 |
| cluckj | reproducing a class system in Em, sounds like a plan | 07:23 |
| cluckj | I gotta rewind man, it sounds like he's endorsing that (fictional) bullshit | 07:26 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, bear in mind that predictions aren't necessarily endorsements. | 07:28 |
| JayDugger | I predict that I'll someday die, and everything I love will end. A very good prediction, but not an endorsement. | 07:29 |
| cluckj | yeah I know :P | 07:29 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough. Just thought it deserved a mention. | 07:29 |
| cluckj | hence the rewinding to contextualize :) | 07:30 |
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| cluckj | I'm not really familiar with his stuff to begin with | 07:31 |
| cluckj | oh he's an economist | 07:32 |
| JayDugger | Now-a-days, yes. | 07:34 |
| cluckj | lol | 07:34 |
| JayDugger | You can find the earlier papers that led to the book on his site. | 07:34 |
| kanzure | if there's a class system then i want to be a pope wizard | 07:36 |
| cluckj | yikes, time to turn that off | 07:38 |
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| cluckj | JayDugger, ~48 minutes is where the part you were suggesting starts | 07:41 |
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| JayDugger | Thank you, cluckj. | 08:16 |
| JayDugger | Pope-wizard-for-Life! | 08:17 |
| kanzure | no wait, i mean *laser* pope wizard | 08:18 |
| fenn | yes, what is it? | 08:18 |
| fenn | someone called for a laser pope wizard | 08:19 |
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| fenn | nmz787: you shouldn't use vegetable oils on bearings because eventually they oxidize and get gunky, only use mineral oil | 08:21 |
| fenn | though i guess jojoba oil isn't the worst | 08:22 |
| cluckj | pope of the lasers? | 08:24 |
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| JayDugger | How will you reconcile the difference between the traditional miter and the traditional conical hat? | 08:27 |
| cluckj | head-mounted laser, duh | 08:27 |
| cluckj | hats are overrated | 08:28 |
| fenn | today i learned jojoba nuts were used for lubricant in world war 2 | 08:30 |
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| nmz787_i | fenn: years ago I learned jojoba is supposedly the second-best industrial oil compared to whale oil | 09:16 |
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| archels | kanzure: agreed, although we might be able to play with the speed of emulation | 09:48 |
| archels | run the emulation at a quickened pace during sleep with respect to the common, shared timeframe | 09:49 |
| kanzure | that's some mighty strong computational magic you gots there | 09:50 |
| archels | it's mostly legislatory magic, or societal maybe | 09:51 |
| archels | to have everyone eventually sync at the same pace | 09:51 |
| kanzure | if you had that computational power available in the first place, why were you running at 50%? | 09:52 |
| archels | exactly | 09:52 |
| archels | the only reason I can think of right now is so you can interact with others at the same rate | 09:52 |
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| archels | "-is Dave going to be in the meeting? -yeah, why? -his hardware is so old, this meeting is going to take up so much of my objective time..." | 09:53 |
| kanzure | i think everything is going to be slow (for everything) and the costs of computation so high that sleep will be expensive | 09:53 |
| kanzure | if you can just double your speed or whatever, you would have done it already. cpu power doesn't just magically fall out of the sky- and when it does, software isn't guaranteed to run much faster on more hardware anyway. | 09:54 |
| kanzure | (if we figure out all the ingredients of sleep we could stop emulating it, and prefer an analytical solution, of course. but we haven't done this yet, and it might take longer than figuring out emulations.) | 09:55 |
| archels | yeah, it doesn't fall out of the sky, so there's a good chance there are going to be class differences between people who can afford fancier hardware | 09:59 |
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| kanzure | oh, i don't care about that. | 10:03 |
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| archels | "we have decent estimates on the file size for brains" what? no | 11:05 |
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| kanzure | well we know some upper physical limits, like total energy of the known galaxies | 11:27 |
| kanzure | should be reasonably good approximation for an upper limit | 11:27 |
| archels | we have no idea of the level of description we need though | 11:28 |
| archels | power consumed is a good universal, but does it convert into computational complexity? | 11:28 |
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| nmz787_i | what is a good way to do error/warning message IDs in Python? | 13:47 |
| nmz787_i | I feel like I could enumerate all the warnings/error log calls in my code, and assign arbitrary but unique integers to them... so for certain messages I can have a document with longer explanations for some of the error/warning ID codes | 13:48 |
| kanzure | exception types and their subtypes can be defined in a single file or module, then use the exception type name as the identifier (or assign as a class variable) | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, I was also looking for some recommendations on semantics... something like a this, but for error/warning message ID construction: semver.org | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i | this is definitely work related research: http://httpstatusdogs.com/ | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | hrm https://deepspaceindustries.com/ | 19:24 |
| justanotheruser | Is this the kind of thing an overly optimistic 23 year old attempts with $10k in funding? | 19:57 |
| kanzure | this is the kind of thing peter diamandis attempts with negative funding | 19:57 |
| kanzure | oops wait, that's planetary resources inc | 19:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.planetaryresources.com/ | 19:58 |
| kanzure | "brain upload" http://xkcd.com/1666/ | 20:02 |
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| maaku | Asteroid mining is plausible | 21:17 |
| maaku | I was briefly working on a disrupter in that industry | 21:17 |
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| esmerelda | An asteroid disruptor? Like a bomb? | 21:29 |
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| nildicit | http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/Prisco20160410 | 21:58 |
| nmz787_i | justanotheruser: when I was 23 I think I could've done wonders with $10k... I had a lot more energy to do tedious hacky shit (and no day job, and wanted a reason to take a quarter or two off of school)... but back then all the rage was people <20 years :/ | 22:03 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Apr 12 00:00:26 2016 | ||
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