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| chris_99 | nmz787_i, are you about per chance? | 06:11 |
|---|---|---|
| chris_99 | or anyone else for that matter, i'm just looking at using a cheapo diffraction grating, could someone possibly verify my understanding is correct, so i'm looking at a 500 lines / mm grating | 06:14 |
| chris_99 | i believe the distance between lines for that is 2um | 06:14 |
| kanzure | btw edmund optics has online chat support | 06:15 |
| chris_99 | oh interesting | 06:15 |
| chris_99 | i'm playing with http://www.photonics.byu.edu/diffraction.phtml i plugged in 2um and 900nm for the wavelength, @ 5cm from grating | 06:15 |
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| chris_99 | so it says i'd see 900nm at 2.2cm, from the centre, so then i'd only need to place a camera at some distance behind the grating right, and just look for a line at that distance | 06:17 |
| chris_99 | *2.5cm | 06:17 |
| chris_99 | (i'm just looking at cheapo 'ruled gratings') | 06:18 |
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| catern | hey kanzure you like to record every interaction you have with other people | 09:22 |
| catern | have you considered recording all your in-person conversations | 09:22 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e12ccab5 Bryan Bishop: transcript: adam3us in czechia >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/adam3us-bitcoin-scaling-tradeoffs/ | 09:29 |
| kanzure | catern: i don't do audio recording of my in-person conversations but i definitely write down summaries (lists of tags) | 09:31 |
| catern | kanzure: any reason why not? | 09:32 |
| kanzure | unreasonably negative feelings about audio recording quality | 09:32 |
| kanzure | i haven't tested but i've always assumed the recording quality would be infuriatingly low | 09:32 |
| catern | too low to understand, or too low to speech-to-text? | 09:35 |
| catern | it seems like it could be decent | 09:35 |
| chris_99 | hire a boom mic operator to follow you round ;) | 09:35 |
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| catern | i was thinking wearing a smartwatch... | 09:39 |
| catern | that's unobtrusive but should get decent audio quality, maybe? | 09:39 |
| chris_99 | sounds like a good idea, or even one of those clip on mics | 09:39 |
| catern | well, a clip-on mic would be immediately recognizable as a mic... perhaps I would want to be surreptitious? | 09:40 |
| chris_99 | true | 09:41 |
| chris_99 | although that'd be legally questionalbe | 09:41 |
| archels_ | just wear a smartphone in your chest pocket | 09:42 |
| archels_ | the real downside is how people will react when they know you're recording them | 09:42 |
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| catern | archels_: i've tested that, and my pants pocket too, the audio quality is not great (at least with my phone, anyway) | 09:44 |
| catern | chris_99: i live in a only-one-party-needs-to-consent-to-recording state so legally it's fine | 09:45 |
| chris_99 | aha cool | 09:45 |
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| catern | i'm thinking if i get a smartwatch with a good mic, i can unobtrusively connect it to a battery pack so i can record constantly | 09:55 |
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| kanzure | what you really need is a nanoscopic dust clouds of microphone arrays that extend like a smelly odor around you wherever you go | 09:59 |
| chris_99 | heh | 09:59 |
| catern | that sounds like a workable solution | 09:59 |
| catern | do you know where i can get one of those | 09:59 |
| JayDugger | That would be cool. I'll settle for a system which automatically timestamps, geostamps, transcribes, and indexes the audio recordings. | 09:59 |
| chris_99 | and pipes to MTurk maybe | 10:00 |
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| JayDugger | Nah...the machine can do the transcriptions. I'm not so fussy. | 10:00 |
| catern | honestly though how has this not already been done | 10:01 |
| chris_99 | for decoding | 10:01 |
| catern | i am certainly not the first transhumanist who wants to record everything around themselves, and audio is a good first step | 10:01 |
| JayDugger | Evernote has a built-in recording function. It will also automatically geotag your notes and time stamp them. | 10:01 |
| catern | JayDugger: well, i mean the hardware setup | 10:01 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, that's called a good modern phone. | 10:02 |
| catern | a good modern phone can record 16 hours a day? | 10:02 |
| JayDugger | Unless you want to do something exotic, like binaural audio or a wide frequency band. | 10:02 |
| JayDugger | Depending on your battery life, fidelity standards, and so on... | 10:02 |
| catern | i am pretty sure no modern phone has the battery life to be recording 16 hours a day | 10:03 |
| JayDugger | My Note 4's voice recorder app shows enough disk space for 80 hours of mono at 16KHz sampling. | 10:03 |
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| catern | you could probably optimize it in hardware so that recording could be done in a sleep state | 10:04 |
| catern | but i doubt anyone has done this | 10:04 |
| JayDugger | You do know they make phones with removable batteries, right? You want to perhaps update your estimate? | 10:04 |
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| catern | well, i wasn't counting removable batteries | 10:04 |
| JayDugger | They also make external USB power packs. | 10:04 |
| JayDugger | You should. They're cheap. | 10:04 |
| catern | yeah | 10:04 |
| catern | hmm... | 10:04 |
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| catern | you know there are phones that have QI charging | 10:05 |
| catern | are there power packs that will do Qi charging? | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | Managing 16 hours of audio accumulating per day, every day, that seems more of a challenge. | 10:05 |
| catern | then you'd just need to put your phone in there | 10:05 |
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| catern | JayDugger: disk is cheap | 10:05 |
| catern | http://www.qipack.co/ | 10:05 |
| catern | oh, cool | 10:05 |
| catern | so i could just keep this in my pocket next to my phone | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | Storage costs little, and that part's solved. | 10:06 |
| catern | JayDugger: anyway, the other issue that I mentioned earlier - recording quality of your phone while it's in your pocket, is not great | 10:06 |
| catern | at least, it's not great for my phone | 10:06 |
| catern | i would love to hear that it is better for others, if anyone wants to test (I have a Nexus 5) | 10:07 |
| JayDugger | You've 16 hours of audio per day. That's about 240 days of playback per year. | 10:07 |
| catern | yeah, so speech-to-text is important | 10:07 |
| JayDugger | Assuming your recorder has a skip silence function (or your post-processor has one), and assuming...yeah, you get the poitn. | 10:07 |
| catern | as is proper synchronization with the time, so you can go back and listen to specific stuff that you know is at specific times | 10:07 |
| catern | so again i think the primary issue is the mic quality, because a smartphone in my pocket sucks | 10:08 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, that should be easy. The recording has a time index, and you can use the file ctime as a start point. | 10:08 |
| catern | ah, yeah | 10:08 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, I've tried this. I get a lot of footsteps and rustling fabric. | 10:09 |
| JayDugger | If you make a point of setting your phone on a desk and pretending to turn it off while actually switching on the recorder and turning off the screen, you can usually get good audio. | 10:09 |
| catern | probably the recording software could break the files/insert timestamps at points of silence | 10:09 |
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| JayDugger | Not that I would encourage such deceit, you understand. I speak only in a hypothetical case. | 10:10 |
| catern | JayDugger: of course | 10:10 |
| catern | but I at least often have conversations, y'know, standing up | 10:10 |
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| JayDugger | Wear your phone on a belt clip. | 10:10 |
| catern | I suppose one could develop a habit of removing ones phone from one pocket during any and all conversations | 10:10 |
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| catern | hmm, or that | 10:10 |
| catern | JayDugger: do people actually do that? i've never seen such a thing | 10:11 |
| JayDugger | Otterbox makes some nice models to go with their cases. | 10:11 |
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| JayDugger | Yeah, it's pretty common at my job. Some work pants have dedicated phone pockets. | 10:11 |
| catern | i assume their cases don't block the mic? | 10:11 |
| catern | huh, what is your job? | 10:11 |
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| JayDugger | Yeah, I hate $DAYJOB. | 10:12 |
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| JayDugger | I apologize for dodging the question. Let put it this way: today was a good day because I told my supervisor "Oh, you're welcome. You know me. I hate to miss a chance to twist the knife." | 10:13 |
| catern | haha | 10:13 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.nanocenter.umd.edu/nanoday/register/ | 10:13 |
| nmz787_i | "Please note that NanoDay 2016 is a free event; there is no fee for the workshops, registration or presenting a poster." | 10:14 |
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| nmz787_i | May 17 - Electron Microscopy Workshops - Recent Advancements in Electron and Ion MicroscopyElectron Microscopy Workshops, with in-depth presentations by experienced microscopists. Click here for more information about the EM Workshops May 18 - NanoDay - Quantum Physics, Energy Storage, and Nanomanufacturing Feature plenary talks by prominent scientists in nanoscience, a poster session for | 10:14 |
| nmz787_i | breaking research (with awards), and networking opportunities | 10:14 |
| catern | JayDugger: i dunno how well the belt clip would work | 10:14 |
| JayDugger | Anyway, the best thing to try is to experiment. Accumulate the audio. As you pointed out, storage costs next to nothing, and basic indexing (who, where, when) will do until text-to-speech gets even cheaper. | 10:15 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_i, hey, i'm thinking again about a spectrometer, i'm thinking of getting a pi noir (which can apparently record at 10 bit) and a cheapo diffraction grating, for prototyping | 10:15 |
| JayDugger | I saved papers in a box labeled "SCAN WHEN CHEAP" for about a decade until it finally happened. | 10:15 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: best of luck! | 10:17 |
| nmz787_i | I just remember my pi camera having tons of digital noise :/ | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | ah bugger, i could possible average it maybe | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | whether that'd help i dunno | 10:17 |
| nmz787_i | but if you aren't doing fast acquisition, then averaging should work to your advantage | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | if it works with the noir, i'll build a system with the proper line ccds | 10:18 |
| nmz787_i | by fast I mean, your sample isn't changing every reading (i.e. with a protein enzyme kinetics reaction) | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | it's for abv hopefully | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | so it wont | 10:18 |
| nmz787_i | I finally got my little laser etcher to have an analog brightness adjustment (from digital PWM) working a week or so ago, haven't lasered anything interesting yet | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | and also got my little xray-detector to at least respond to light in a seemingly appropriate manner | 10:19 |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nanotube, strages, Orpheon, strangewarp, ArturShaik | 10:19 | |
| chris_99 | ooh cool | 10:19 |
| JayDugger | That's good work nmz787_i. | 10:19 |
| chris_99 | what type of sensor is it | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | just a cheap PIN photodiode | 10:19 |
| chris_99 | aha cool | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | reverse-biased, with a FET on the output, which is fed into an opamp for amplification | 10:20 |
| chris_99 | i think they can also detect gamma iirc? | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | yeah | 10:20 |
| JayDugger | catern, you can save audio in a directory tree "audio/YYYY/MM/DD/foo.wav" until automatic transcription improves futher. | 10:20 |
| catern | yeah | 10:21 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: finally got my SEM moved home, from storage, though it is currently in the garage | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | oooooh | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | cool | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | are there any issues with it? | 10:22 |
| nmz787_i | I've polyurethaned a piece of hardwood plywood to fit on top of the carpet in my home office room, for parking the scope on top of | 10:22 |
| nmz787_i | still havent started debugging it yet | 10:22 |
| chris_99 | aha, does the screen not work? | 10:22 |
| chris_99 | or something | 10:22 |
| nmz787_i | supposedly it works, but the image is all messed up | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | ah | 10:23 |
| nmz787_i | they saw something on the screen, but nothing sensible... but found the image changed when the stage was manipulated | 10:23 |
| nmz787_i | so seems to be correllation | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | oh interesting | 10:23 |
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| chris_99 | did you ever get your blue spectrometer to work? | 10:26 |
| catern | JayDugger: awesome idea on the belt clip, I just tested the sound by taping my phone to my belt, it sounds great! | 10:26 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: I still have not even powered it on | 10:31 |
| nmz787_i | too many projects... | 10:31 |
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| chris_99 | hehe | 10:33 |
| catern | i cannot believe that i am going to get a belt clip for my phone | 10:54 |
| maaku | catern: certainly there are smart watches with mics? | 10:58 |
| catern | maaku: i don't wear a smart watch currently, and i already need a phone | 10:59 |
| catern | the belt clip idea is a good one | 10:59 |
| catern | a phone also will have more storage | 10:59 |
| catern | wish i could get a belt clip that also charged the phone | 10:59 |
| maaku | well I would presume a BLE connection from the watch to the phone, and cellular from the phone to your server | 10:59 |
| catern | yeah | 11:00 |
| maaku | this single idea has convinced me to get a smart watch, asap | 11:00 |
| maaku | thanks | 11:00 |
| catern | hah :D | 11:00 |
| maaku | i'm looking forward to having a continuous "irc log" of real world conversations | 11:00 |
| maaku | would be nice to autotranscribe and record the phone too | 11:01 |
| catern | yes! exactly! | 11:01 |
| maaku | oh haha should have read the full scrollback; you were talking of smart watches earlier | 11:02 |
| catern | yeah :) | 11:03 |
| kanzure | autotranscribe is too slow, faster ot just do it myself | 11:03 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/adam3us-bitcoin-scaling-tradeoffs/ | 11:04 |
| catern | kanzure: surely it's faster still to use both at the same time, i.e., automated speech-to-text with your oversight | 11:04 |
| kanzure | catern: nope i think i am directly faster http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure | 11:05 |
| catern | that is some wpm | 11:06 |
| kanzure | most congruently | 11:06 |
| chris_99 | wpm == words per minute right? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | yep | 11:09 |
| chris_99 | i was just thinking how that works due to differing word lengths, but i guess it averages out | 11:09 |
| kanzure | it's not an ideal measurement, i mean i don't really care about words nor minutes but quantifying complex hand motion sequencing is a difficult thing to ask for | 11:10 |
| chris_99 | mmm heh | 11:11 |
| kanzure | in fact i'm not really convinced that most words have any positive value, but at the same time i am pretty sure that it is useful to have some form of brain output or input into computing devices | 11:12 |
| kanzure | high-entropy controlled input or something | 11:12 |
| kanzure | high bandwidth, at least, but also video doesn't count because visual appearance cannot be precisely controlled at a high rate | 11:14 |
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| Jenda`_ | kanzure: Oh, is that transcript (Bitcoin scaling tradeoffs with Adam Back) from video, or are you in Prague? :) | 11:25 |
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| aedla | nmz787_i: how much did the SEM cost? | 11:28 |
| catern | maaku: i will report back on the success or failure of the belt-clip approach | 11:28 |
| catern | i am hopeful that it will go well | 11:28 |
| maaku | catern: http://kaptureaudio.com/ | 11:28 |
| nmz787_i | aedla: I think $200 or $300 | 11:33 |
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| aedla | nmz787_i: where did you get one so cheap? (and do they have more? :) | 11:35 |
| kanzure | Jenda`_: from video earlier today | 11:39 |
| catern | maaku: yeah I saw that, but I want to record *all* audio, not just the last minute | 11:47 |
| catern | maaku: i'll send them an email | 11:49 |
| catern | i have sent them an email | 11:54 |
| kanzure | algorithmically generated prior art derived from patents http://allpriorart.com/ | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i should find some time to sit down and read all the existing patents | 11:57 |
| maaku | catern: I'm absolutely sure the hardware is capable. if nothing else you could hack it with a cron job on the phone | 12:00 |
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| catern | maaku: oh yeah, i believe it too | 12:08 |
| catern | just want to see if the software will make it hard or easy | 12:08 |
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| maaku | catern: what i'd really like to know is if their mic is any better than your typical smartwatch | 13:04 |
| maaku | that'd make all the difference | 13:04 |
| catern | yeah indeed | 13:04 |
| catern | hmm | 13:04 |
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| nmz787_i | aedla: found it via craigslist, was just randomly searching for fun one day (or to waste time while bored at work maybe???)... nah no more at the specific place... but I do see them on craigslist every month or so (not always local, but sometimes I use allcraigs to search all over the world) | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | aedla: the microscopy.com mailing list also has free stuff every so often | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | I saw a whole TEM setup with cryo about a month ago | 13:10 |
| nmz787_i | would have been a great start to doing some cryo electron tomography or microtoming | 13:10 |
| nmz787_i | aedla: and also electronics waste recyclers, sometimes you can call them directly, sometimes they put stuff on ebay (and then you usually can go see them in person and tour their warehouse) | 13:11 |
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| catern | maaku: this could be useful http://www.amazon.com/PowerDrive-External-Portable-Poker-sized-Charging/dp/B00PHCZ5Q0 | 13:20 |
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| deus_ | hi | 14:32 |
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| nmz787_i | bye! | 14:37 |
| kanzure | such is life on irc | 14:41 |
| fenn | xentrac_: i'm reading the logs and can't figure out what the hell you're thinking? it comes across as a kid swinging his new toy around | 14:41 |
| fenn | xentrac_: do you think it's not worthwhile to try to actively resolve conflicts? | 14:42 |
| fenn | xentrac_: is it just a pre-commitment about a particular phrase that was used? | 14:42 |
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| kanzure | catern: to low to understand. and for speech-to-text i'd have to read all the output anyway... or i guess i would also be okay with trying to train something that classifies things with canonical tags instead of whatever weird interpretations it tries to pick. that might be acceptable i guess. | 15:08 |
| kanzure | i agree with the boom mic operator hire plan | 15:08 |
| fenn | i'd rather have a dedicated audio recording device because of security concerns | 15:09 |
| fenn | preferably with a mechanical off switch | 15:09 |
| kanzure | false choice, all switches should be mechanical | 15:09 |
| kanzure | regarding jaydugger's employment, it should be obvious by now that jaydugger is employed by the government to watch this channel for unusual activity. that's why he has all the security clearances. | 15:10 |
| kanzure | and why he has all the rocket knowledge | 15:10 |
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| fenn | i mean a switch that stays off when switched to "off", and has to be moved to "on" to turn on | 15:10 |
| kanzure | *too low to understand | 15:11 |
| kanzure | recording all my own audio is not enough to convince me, although setups for recording chatter at conferences might be sufficient motivation..... i think we have talked about this before. | 15:11 |
| fenn | the audio quality required for automated transcription really depends on the speech to text algorithms currently available | 15:11 |
| fenn | having multiple microphones (i.e. stereo audio) can significantly boost the signal to noise ratio, see "cocktail party problem" | 15:12 |
| fenn | .wik cocktail party problem | 15:12 |
| yoleaux | "The cocktail party effect is the phenomenon of being able to focus one's auditory attention on a particular stimulus while filtering out a range of other stimuli, much the same way that a partygoer can focus on a single conversation in a noisy room. This effect is what allows most people to "tune into" a single voice and "tune out" all others." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_problem | 15:12 |
| kanzure | if i am at a bitcoin conference and people are talking about UTXOs i don't want transcription software to give output including all of "you tee echs ohs" and "utexas spaghettios" and "UTX ohs" and so on. presumably modern classifiers can be trained to have a set of known canonical jargon and just tag "UTXO" with a certainty factor. | 15:13 |
| kanzure | yes i am p. sure all conference recording proposals have always involved >1 microphone | 15:13 |
| fenn | sigh they fucked up the wikipedia article with redirect to some cognitive science crap instead of the digital signal processing thing it used to point to | 15:14 |
| kanzure | i am sort of surprised by the conventional assumption that people say important things through voice at all | 15:15 |
| fenn | well it seems important at the time | 15:15 |
| kanzure | most complex systems take a bunch of context and effort to load up on, so my default assumption would be that important things would often be written down first long before they would be spoken outloud | 15:15 |
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| fenn | no, many insights come when trying to explain or teach something | 15:16 |
| kanzure | but that folly is on me--- most professions don't involve writing anything down at all, even for complex systems still pulling teeth to get aerospace people to document their drawings. | 15:16 |
| fenn | and most people don't sit around writing essays all day | 15:16 |
| kanzure | apparently the hplusroadmap logs do not include the phrase "mean time until failure" contrary to my expectations | 15:18 |
| fenn | "MTBF" appears 15 times | 15:19 |
| kanzure | oh good | 15:20 |
| kanzure | "mean time between failure" not "mean time until failure", weird. | 15:21 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f711f1a8 Bryan Bishop: project heuristics about failure modes >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/ | 15:27 |
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| nmz787_i | typing is usually harder/slower than talking, for me and I presume majority of other people | 15:42 |
| kanzure | great aspiration :P | 15:45 |
| nmz787_i | i'd rather speech to text was better | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | i'm an old dog... I need great brain-reshuffling to learn such new tricks at my core... i think | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | which is really super time consuming | 15:47 |
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| nmz787_i | so all i'm saying it, it's usually /more/ useful to talk a bunch than it is to write an equivalent amount of sentences, or even a single great sentence | 15:48 |
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| maaku | speech to text isn't good already? | 16:21 |
| maaku | I thought there were some pretty good algorithms for that | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | didnt work in the car for me yesterday | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | road noise kept it listening, then it timed out | 16:22 |
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| kanzure | skdb page should be updated to switch from apt-get fanboyism to nixos fanboyism | 18:37 |
| kanzure | also, it is sad that amazon found that their optimal inventory storage and management is a bunch of people running around a giant warehouse with shopping carts and grocery-isle-style part storage..... | 18:38 |
| xentrac_ | fenn: I'm not quite sure which thing you're referring to with the kid swinging the new toy, or actively resolving conflicts, or pre-commitments and particular phrases? | 18:49 |
| xentrac_ | are you talking about copper plating? | 18:49 |
| xentrac_ | or bitcoin, or what? | 18:51 |
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| andytoshi | is paperbot alive these days? does anyone know where i can find an english translation of a ussr math paper? | 19:33 |
| andytoshi | "Branched coverings of manifolds with boundary and link invariants. I", MATH USSR IZV, 1973, 7 (6), 1239–1256 | 19:34 |
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| kanzure | weird, sci-hub.io gives the wrong pdf for http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1070/IM1973v007n06ABEH002083/pdf | 19:55 |
| andytoshi | yeah, i checked after i posted .. it's the same for every article in that journal it seem | 20:18 |
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| kanzure | https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4fs8fo/talkvideo_bitcoin_scaling_tradeoffs_with_adam/d2c8xya?context=3 | 21:32 |
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| drethelin | what do you guys think of Basis https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534636/the-anti-aging-pill/ ? | 22:25 |
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| JayDugger | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_to_the_Moon | 22:53 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Apr 22 00:00:54 2016 | ||
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