| --- Log opened Wed May 04 00:00:05 2016 | ||
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| drethelin | what did you do to your old one | 00:32 |
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| nmz787_i | well, I never had one | 01:00 |
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| FourFire | hmm, reddit really sucks. | 02:15 |
| night | tell me about it | 02:16 |
| FourFire | I got upvoted for a post where I ridicule a (joking) solution to "the population problem" caused by successful indefinite lifespan research by spending 0.6% of world GDP launching naked humans into space atop SpaceX Launch vehicles | 02:40 |
| FourFire | I got downvoted for a post where I suggest that The AI control problem is a big unknown, and that our social constucts are specific to our neural architecture. | 02:44 |
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| juul | hm, still haven't found that UI/UX person for biobricks foundation. If anyone knows anyone who's interested: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-jobs/2016-April/000380.html | 04:21 |
| juul | you can contact me at bbf@juul.io | 04:22 |
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| chris_99 | Anyone ever made a digital refractometer out of interest, was just looking at http://www.gpsil.com/our-products/refractometers/measuring-pri/# seems the main expense is probably the interference filter | 05:32 |
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| JayDugger | nmz787, when you said "size of some text on a PDF page," you meant what--dimensions on screen? | 09:12 |
| maaku | FourFire: why do you want to enslave machine intelligence? | 09:13 |
| FourFire | maaku, actually, I wan to *be* machine intelligence, but the prerequisites are probably not going to be developed in time | 09:14 |
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| maaku | FourFire: I don't think that is so unlikely an outcome | 09:15 |
| FourFire | maaku, to answer your question: I don't want to truncated by Other intelligencs put into plac by insufficietly imaginative and cautious people | 09:15 |
| maaku | it is strange to me that the "control problem" is about building perfect enslavement devices, and yet no one calls them out on it | 09:16 |
| FourFire | ideally there will be a multitude of non general but very powerful AIs | 09:16 |
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| FourFire | plenty of people call people out on it, but that's due to what I consider a different problem entirely. | 09:16 |
| FourFire | I'm wary of people's empathy for "things which look like faces" being hijacked and leading to a stupid early en | 09:17 |
| maaku | stupid early en...? | 09:19 |
| maaku | the machine cut you off it seems | 09:19 |
| maaku | general intelligence is not complicated | 09:20 |
| maaku | thankfully it's also not very useful most of the time | 09:20 |
| JayDugger | Obviously an act of sabotage by the machine. Fetch the tools of eliminating reluctance and inducing penitence. | 09:21 |
| maaku | .title https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/05/03/preparing-future-artificial-intelligence | 09:29 |
| yoleaux | Preparing for the Future of Artificial Intelligence | whitehouse.gov | 09:29 |
| maaku | FourFire: with the right tools transitioning from biological to machine intelligence is not that hard | 09:29 |
| maaku | it's probably easier than fixing all the things that are wrong with our failing bodies | 09:30 |
| FourFire | yes, in the long run | 09:30 |
| maaku | but then again I have this problem where I consider anything doable within 30 years "easy" | 09:30 |
| maaku | supplant the world's financial system? easy! | 09:30 |
| FourFire | I don't think bio to digital transition at acceptable fidelity to be a 30 year problem | 09:31 |
| FourFire | more like 50+ years... | 09:31 |
| maaku | FourFire: it just needs decent neural interfacing tech | 09:32 |
| FourFire | I'm pursuing biology enhancements first because I consider it a necessary "first bridge" for anyone born befoe next decade next decade | 09:32 |
| maaku | doesn't even need to replace the whole brain, just the intercranial connection | 09:32 |
| FourFire | brain is biology | 09:33 |
| FourFire | if you claim you don't want to bother to fix biology issues, you have to go full synth | 09:33 |
| maaku | FourFire: No I do. I don't like putting my eggs in one basket. | 09:34 |
| maaku | But what I'm saying is there's a relatively short pathway to machine intelligence: reverse engineer the intracranial communication at the physical level | 09:35 |
| maaku | Then lobotomize a brain, connecting the left and the right hemispheres to separate supercomputers with blank, learnable cortex simulations | 09:36 |
| maaku | and boom, you've fissioned into two individuals. | 09:37 |
| maaku | after sufficient imprinting of the machine part (years of retraining), the biological part can die and the individual survives | 09:37 |
| maaku | Too much risk imho, so I pursue many other means, but conceptually quite simple | 09:38 |
| maaku | FourFire: btw were you the one I was speaking to about writing a living AGI roadmap document? | 09:39 |
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| maaku | guess not | 10:03 |
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| nmz787_i | .tell chris_99 seems like you could do away with those interference filters if you just used a decent laser | 10:35 |
| yoleaux | nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to chris_99. | 10:35 |
| nmz787_i | JayDugger: to be honest I'm really not sure what units things would be in... since I am dealing with a CAD program that has some units for things like a page border and you can draw text in the CAD too using some kind of Font and Font size... for now I'm just continuing on and if that causes me issues I'll have to come back and visit this later | 10:37 |
| nmz787_i | for now I have some rough approximation stuff happening, using some Windows system API to check formatted text size.... but I have a feeling the windows default DPI might be different than what the CAD tool is rendering into the PDF... so maybe the numbers I am using in my script are too small or something... I'll find out soon enough once I finish my code and try running | 10:38 |
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| nmz787_i | hi chris_99 | 11:57 |
| chris_99 | hey | 11:57 |
| yoleaux | 17:35Z <nmz787_i> chris_99: seems like you could do away with those interference filters if you just used a decent laser | 11:57 |
| chris_99 | oh, yeah heh, i looked on aliexpress for one | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | but it seemed really expensive | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | for 589nm anyway | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | i'm not sure the significance of that wavelength | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | though | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | "The refractive index is normally measured at a temperature of 20°C using light with the wavelength of the sodium D line (589.29 nm) and is therefore expressed as nD20.", maybe you could use alternative wavelengths? i've no idea though | 12:04 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: probably used the sodium line of a HPS lamp... since they didn't have a laser? | 13:17 |
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| chris_99 | you mean theres no particular significance with 589nm? | 13:23 |
| chris_99 | i'm also confused by this "To guarantee a high quality measurement with an accuracy of up to 0.00002 in the refractive index the wavelength has to be determined correctly. Therefore, in modern refractometers the wavelength is tuned to a bandwidth of +/-0.2 nm to ensure correct results for samples with different dispersions." | 13:24 |
| chris_99 | the interference filters i've seen | 13:24 |
| chris_99 | say FWHM of 10nm | 13:26 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: I don't think that wavelength is significant, as long as the source is narrow-bandwidth | 13:39 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: the accuracy statement could be talking about instability of the peak frequency, that the shift is within 0.2nm +- | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | yeah that'd make sense i guess, as you'd be calibrating it anyway | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | ahh didn't think about that | 13:41 |
| nmz787_i | since even with a laser the freq can shift, I think heat dependent | 13:41 |
| nmz787_i | so maybe the same with other light sources? | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | hmm, i'm not sure about things like sodium lights | 13:42 |
| nmz787_i | I know with space telescopes they measure doppler shifts of spectral lines, but that has to do with the emitter/detector moving with respect to each other (i.e. earth and some star/planet with some oscillating orbit) | 13:42 |
| nmz787_i | but there's nothing moving in the refractometer | 13:43 |
| chris_99 | if you can use any laser, that would make it really cheap :) | 13:43 |
| nmz787_i | i guess optical cavity imperfections can add harmonics, which add apparent jitter | 13:43 |
| nmz787_i | but I think consistency is probably more important | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i | so if you're looking to measure beer, I think you'll have no issues with a cheap laser | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i | I'd just check on what the most stable cheap lasers are | 13:44 |
| chris_99 | yeah that sounds a good plan | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i | I feel like I've heard closer to IR is more stable (i.e. a red laser) | 13:45 |
| chris_99 | ah interesting | 13:45 |
| nmz787_i | something about they aren't IR pumped or something | 13:45 |
| nmz787_i | while the green lasers are freq doubled from IR | 13:45 |
| Aurelius_Work2 | not any more | 13:46 |
| Aurelius_Work2 | well, not all | 13:46 |
| Aurelius_Work2 | green lasers diodes were figured out in the last 5 or so years, but they're still expensive | 13:46 |
| Aurelius_Work2 | there's no particularly good use for them | 13:46 |
| chris_99 | yellow lasers sound interesting in how they work - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pointer#Yellow | 13:47 |
| chris_99 | i thought i'd heard of something to do with green lasers being used for something to do with astronomy (other than pointing out stars) | 13:49 |
| nmz787_i | laser guide star | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i | basically they use the laser spot as a brightness calibration, as I recall | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i | or maybe for aberration detection (and then correction) of the atmosphere | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i | since it varies with time | 13:51 |
| chris_99 | just found this "If you fire a sodium laser into the air, it will excite those sodium atoms found at that particular altitude, which then spontaneously de-excite, creating an artificial light source to be used as a guide star." | 13:52 |
| chris_99 | could of sworn i'd seen a photo of an observatory with a green laser | 13:52 |
| chris_99 | it seems you can get laser refractometers btw nmz787_i, so you were right :) | 13:55 |
| nmz787_i | honestly seems like something simple enough that could be on ebay or aliexpress | 13:56 |
| nmz787_i | laser, prism, webcam or linear array, some optical glue, some plastic molding/housing | 13:57 |
| chris_99 | i've looked on aliexpress, couldn't find any, the cheapest i've seen is £90 iirc | 13:57 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 13:57 |
| nmz787_i | I bet you could get the prism for $5 or 10 | 13:58 |
| chris_99 | yeah, definitely | 13:58 |
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| kanzure | eliezer ponders things https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hflr3/craig_wrights_signature_is_worthless/d2q997f | 17:27 |
| drethelin | didn't the bitcoin price experience a huge fluctuation | 17:32 |
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| c0rw1n | nah | 17:37 |
| c0rw1n | ... huh. depends where | 17:37 |
| c0rw1n | http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=Hourly&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0& | 17:38 |
| maaku | depends on you definition of "huge | 17:40 |
| c0rw1n | yeah that too | 17:42 |
| c0rw1n | about 10% is not much for bitcoin | 17:42 |
| c0rw1n | just that i first checked the chart for bitcoin.de (the one i use) and that was completely flat :) | 17:42 |
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| kanzure | various weirdness, http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-May/029323.html | 18:13 |
| maaku | kanzure: it's crazy. | 18:33 |
| kanzure | yes. | 18:35 |
| maaku | i've known iang. he's not a loony. but i have no explanation for this | 18:39 |
| kanzure | let's chalk this up to "when in wonderand" or something | 18:50 |
| kanzure | *wonderland | 18:51 |
| maaku | Is there any wearable bio monitor that can detect early onset of heart attacks? | 19:00 |
| drethelin | http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29802581 not yet? though this article is pretty out of date | 19:32 |
| streety | would a polar chest strap be able to detect a change in the ECG? | 19:40 |
| drethelin | I think otc heart monitors could already do it given the right firmware | 19:46 |
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| maaku | That seems like the super easiest save lives tool. | 20:07 |
| kanzure | yes but the most fun one is the epinephrine pens | 20:07 |
| drethelin | people are pretty reluctant to take meds and stuff so wearing a chest strap every day might not be popular | 20:11 |
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| maaku | Yeah I was thinking more like fitbit / smartwatch | 20:27 |
| maaku | Those things have a pulse monitor. I wonder what the resolution is? I wonder if there are signs in the microstructure of a pulse to detect heart attacks | 20:34 |
| drethelin | http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teens-life-saved-fitbit-after-7154991 | 20:36 |
| drethelin | they're not really designed to monitor "microstructure'' | 20:37 |
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| maaku | They aren't, but what's the quality of the underlying data feed? | 23:33 |
| maaku | What frequency do they sample with what sensory noise threshold? | 23:34 |
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