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| adlai_ | hi | 02:44 |
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| adlai_ | what's the context of the /topic quote? | 02:45 |
| adlai_ | also, "help i'm trap4ped in a mental hospital!" | 02:55 |
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| xentrac_ | sorry to hear it | 03:04 |
| xentrac_ | is it helping? | 03:04 |
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| kanzure | "There are a few guys who do the healthcare VC funding: Oxford, CRG, Hercules, etc. those guys do venture phase funding for a percentage of future top line sales" | 04:45 |
| kanzure | hmm only two projects on https://www.lifespan.io/campaigns/ -- slow start. (perhaps crowdfunding is a terrible idea and people should stop shoehorning things into it.) | 04:50 |
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| kanzure | "The biggest issue with much of what Andrew Lo proposes is that in order to make this debt/securitization risk as opposed to this being equity risk is that you need a massive and diverse portfolio of assets. For example, could we take a royalty on all pharma products produced by the UC system over a certain period of time and advance some theoretical amount at debt costs of capital, maybe....but aggregating a portfolio of that size is ... | 07:28 |
| kanzure | ... practically very challenging." | 07:28 |
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| maaku | .title http://blog.adacore.com/make-with-ada-arm-cortex-m-cnc-controller | 09:10 |
| yoleaux | Make with Ada: ARM Cortex-M CNC controller - The AdaCore Blog | 09:11 |
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| mahydraal | anyon in here? | 10:16 |
| mahydraal | anyone | 10:16 |
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| kanzure | no | 10:21 |
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| kanzure | http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/28/book-review-age-of-em/ | 10:46 |
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| archels_ | hardcopy should be in by next week | 10:50 |
| archels_ | not online yet | 10:50 |
| kanzure | somehow this blog post turned into an elon musk fanfic | 10:51 |
| kanzure | "If ems do find ways to get time off the clock, what will they do with it? Probably they’ll have really weird social lives. After all, the existence of em copies is mostly funded by companies, and there’s no reason for companies to copy-paste any but the best workers in a given field. So despite the literally trillions of ems likely to make up the world, most will be copies of a few exceptionally brilliant and hard-working ... | 10:51 |
| kanzure | ... individuals with specific marketable talents. Elon Musk might go out one day to the bar with his friend, who is also Elon Musk, and order “the usual”. The bartender, who is Elon Musk himself, would know exactly what drink he wants and have it readily available, as the bar caters entirely to people who are Elon Musk." | 10:51 |
| kanzure | yea i'm not going to read that book (and neither should you) | 10:53 |
| archels_ | this post is very tl;dr | 10:55 |
| archels_ | not reading the book isn't really an option though | 10:55 |
| kanzure | it's definitely an option. if hanson is more imaginative than you about human brain emulation, then you already have serious problems that a book isn't going to fix. | 10:57 |
| kanzure | seems that his timeline is a little fucked up; he says 2 years total until there's enough simulated time to have created malicious+effective ai, but meanwhile says that the doubling rate would exhaust the supply of computational capacity without near constant expansion of equipment..... and i'm pretty sure near constant expansion of equipment cannot be brought online in under 2 years. | 11:02 |
| archels_ | well that all depends on how you define effective AI | 11:03 |
| kanzure | e.g. 2 years doesn't make sense for all his breathless talk about 10,000x simulation rates and 1/1000000th simulation slowdown because where is all that equipment coming from so quickly? | 11:03 |
| archels_ | I can make an effective and malicious AI right now in 20 lines of Python, probably | 11:04 |
| kanzure | no my complaint is about him talking about 10,000x computational capacity available for random emulations | 11:04 |
| kanzure | in such a short time span | 11:04 |
| archels_ | people are always assuming that computational capacity is free and infinite n years from now | 11:04 |
| archels_ | maybe Hanson isn't; I should refrain from commenting until I read the book | 11:05 |
| kanzure | at the moment it seems more reasonable to assume that any working emulations will be running, at first, at the rate of something like 1 microsecond per minute or something... | 11:06 |
| kanzure | i believe this is also constrained by cpu cluster networking constraint reasons | 11:06 |
| archels_ | indeed, the more computational power you have at your disposal, the faster you can run your emulation | 11:09 |
| archels_ | there might be social norms | 11:09 |
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| maaku | that's probably generous ;) | 11:22 |
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| maaku | also lower quality emulation is probably going to result in rather unhuman beings... | 11:23 |
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| kanzure | no even with lots of cpu you still get network constrained on your cluster (none of the current emulation tech is single-cpu) | 12:01 |
| maaku | I meant microsecond per minute is probably optimistic | 12:02 |
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| nmz787_i | I haven't googled, but does anyone here know if anyone other than me wants to hook up >=8 GHz oscilloscopes to people's heads and record when the people hear [simplistic] music? | 12:14 |
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| kanzure | ehhh i'm sure something could be arranged in the budget for that, why not | 12:15 |
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| nmz787_i | (8 or more instruments, of GHz range) | 12:19 |
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| kanzure | https://thewinnower.com/papers/4715-correlating-the-sci-hub-data-with-world-bank-indicators-and-identifying-academic-use | 13:28 |
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| kanzure | "often called the pirate bay of academia" aww that's such an awesome name | 15:06 |
| kanzure | .title http://datadryad.org/resource/doi:10.5061/dryad.q447c | 15:06 |
| yoleaux | Data from: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone - Dryad | 15:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/whos-downloading-pirated-papers-everyone | 15:06 |
| kanzure | https://blog.datadryad.org/2016/04/28/sci-hub-stories/ | 15:06 |
| kanzure | .tw https://twitter.com/SCEdmunds/status/726122053703618561 | 15:08 |
| yoleaux | @gedankenstuecke article was saying data doesn't include all the Iranian mirrors too! (@SCEdmunds, in reply to tw:726117839866875904) | 15:08 |
| kanzure | there are iranian mirrors of scihub? | 15:08 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/gedankenstuecke/scihub_analysis/blob/master/uni-stats-date.tab | 15:09 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/gedankenstuecke/scihub_analysis/blob/master/uni-stats-country.tab | 15:10 |
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| maaku | .title http://spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=9172 | 17:31 |
| yoleaux | Space resources roundtable: Planetary and Terrestrial Mining Symposium | SpaceRef - Your Space Reference | 17:31 |
| FourFire | Hey, kanzure who here is the most knowledgeable about Cryo? | 17:32 |
| kanzure | maaku: that roundtable should, obviously, decide to put robert freitas in charge of all current and future space mining programs. problem solved. | 17:32 |
| kanzure | FourFire: docl | 17:32 |
| FourFire | I have questions regarding scalability | 17:33 |
| kanzure | well i was designing a system to freeze a few million mice per year, what's up | 17:33 |
| FourFire | docl_, are you on? | 17:33 |
| FourFire | kanzure, what's the main expense for a storage period of, say, 50 years: tanks, LN2, floorspace, administration? | 17:34 |
| kanzure | oh. i haven't checked. for my purposes i was assuming short storage, like <1 week. | 17:34 |
| xentrac_ | FourFire: so a thing to keep in mind is that current state-of-the-art cryonics, you want vitrification | 17:34 |
| xentrac_ | and apparently vitrified tissue isn't stable at LN₂ temperatures; it eventually crystallizes | 17:35 |
| kanzure | yes when i say freezing (in the context of cryonics) i mean vitrification | 17:35 |
| FourFire | Ah right, I forgot entirely the starting costs, those might be overwhelming because of the requirement for trained man hours | 17:35 |
| xentrac_ | so the main expense is actually thermostat-controlled refrigeration equipment, which is overwhelmingly more expensive than LN₂ | 17:35 |
| FourFire | xentrac_, how overwhelimingly? | 17:36 |
| FourFire | What's the potential economy of scale with that? | 17:36 |
| xentrac_ | there are enormous potential economies of scale with any kind of cryogenic apparatus | 17:37 |
| FourFire | also, how much untapped LN2 is there at present: I understand it is an industrial waste product from oxygen condensation stacks | 17:37 |
| xentrac_ | because what you're paying for is mostly the surface are around the operation where heat leaks in, as I understand it | 17:37 |
| FourFire | (or maybe it's argon, and oxygen is simply another seful biproduct) | 17:37 |
| xentrac_ | that's right; it condenses at a higher temperature than oxygen, so you have to condense it in order to condense the oxygen | 17:38 |
| xentrac_ | the oxygen is the main product, but I think both argon and oxygen would be profitable by themselves | 17:38 |
| xentrac_ | I don't know how large the liquefied gases business is | 17:39 |
| xentrac_ | I mean routine deliveries of oxygen to hospitals come in dewars of around a ton | 17:39 |
| xentrac_ | and I assume that's on the order of monthly or weekly | 17:40 |
| maaku | FourFire: LN2 | 17:41 |
| maaku | at least with existing cryonics storage institutions | 17:42 |
| maaku | main storage cost over time is liquified gas | 17:43 |
| maaku | mainly because all the other stuff you can reduce | 17:43 |
| xentrac_ | maaku: is that still true since the shift to vitrification? I thought it had changed dramatically | 17:43 |
| maaku | xentrac_: Alcor and CI are both LN2 cooled, that's never changed | 17:44 |
| FourFire | Anyone know what the current largest cryotank is? | 17:44 |
| FourFire | full body capacity? | 17:44 |
| maaku | FourFire: not sure what your question is. there are giant LN2 tanks for industrial use, of course | 17:46 |
| FourFire | I'm discussing with Singrana whether Cryo will enjoy economes of scale as the customer base grows or whether it will become more expensve due to presently underutilied and thus marginal cost resources | 17:46 |
| maaku | oh well that's boring. historical evidence is that it has gotten cheaper | 17:47 |
| xentrac_ | maaku: thank you for the correction; am I just confused about the vitrification stability thing, or is there now a thermostat in the loop? | 17:47 |
| FourFire | My initial postion is that of course it enjoys a riduculous economy of scale, but I'd like to find out whether that position is justified | 17:47 |
| maaku | FourFire: it's the opposite position that needs justification. why would costs go up with scale? | 17:48 |
| FourFire | if it only get cheaper until the "free" LN2 supplies are consumed and then LN2 needs to b made specifically for Cryo, then what wold the costs befor 50 years storage? Is it even significant compared to the reduced costs of the storage infrastructure | 17:48 |
| maaku | there are no "free" LN2 supplies | 17:49 |
| maaku | not with existing cryonics organizations. they pay market rate for their gas, they pay property taxes on the land they own, and they pay for custom body tanks | 17:49 |
| maaku | i'm not sure why your friend thinks they're working off of freebies | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | well, presumably at some point the LN₂ demand from cryonics would exceed five tiems the LOX demand from the entire economy, and so LN₂ buyers would have to pay the cost of the liquefaction | 17:50 |
| FourFire | if the manhour cost of trained personell required to perform vitriication (which will not be the same technique but will become more sophistocated over time, and maybe more expnesive s a result) then the total cost could also go up dispite scaling infrastructure svaings | 17:50 |
| xentrac_ | right now the demand for LN₂ is fairly weak; most of the value from liquefying air is in the LOX | 17:50 |
| FourFire | ok, well cost for air liquidation is unlikely to go up | 17:50 |
| xentrac_ | so in a sense LOX production is "subsidizing" LN₂ production | 17:50 |
| xentrac_ | no, cost for air liquidation will probably go down a bit, but the LN₂ buyers will start having to pay it | 17:51 |
| FourFire | Yes, so how large are the scaleable costs compared to the LN2 cost? | 17:51 |
| xentrac_ | I mean liquefaction | 17:52 |
| xentrac_ | I don't know! Maybe Praxair or Air Liquide America has answered that question in their SEC filings | 17:53 |
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| nmz787_i | https://www.src.org/program/grc/semisynbio/ | 18:13 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 18:13 |
| yoleaux | Semiconductor Research Corporation - SRC | 18:13 |
| nmz787_i | Research on hybrid bio-semiconductor systems will accelerate advancements in the capabilities and applications of future-generation integrated circuits. | 18:13 |
| kanzure | music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbBTlkDSpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SoJUWoaYI&t=1m | 18:16 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jun 02 00:00:18 2016 | ||
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