--- Day changed Mon Feb 10 2020
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07:57 < andytoshi> those all seem fine to me
07:58 < andytoshi> althuogh they'll irritate the many people out there trying to use miniscript who got burned by the last time we renamed stuff 
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08:34 < achow101> it might be better to rename the pk() descriptor rather than miniscript. unlikely anyone uses pk() descriptors
08:36 < sipa> that's a possibility too
08:36 < sipa> andytoshi: well, the scripts themselves won't change
08:38 < sipa> achow101: i'm unconvinced actually, because then raw pubkey scripts would become c:pk(X)... without being in a place where miniscript makes sense
08:50 < andytoshi> if we added a bare() descriptor and removed the wsh(pk()) descriptor i'd be happy
08:50 < andytoshi> then pk() by itself would be unambiguously a descriptor
08:50 < andytoshi> and wsh(pk()) would unambiguously be a (wrong) wsh-wrapped miniscript
08:50 < andytoshi> and my guess is that nobody is actually using wsh(pk()) because it's pretty weird 
09:11 < sipa> what would bare() mean?
09:11 < andytoshi> bare([miniscript]) means that the miniscript goes in the scriptpubkey
09:15 < sipa> hmm, i was thinking we were trying to reduce the distinction between miniscript and non-miniscript descriptors
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09:39 < achow101> I thought the goal was to make descriptors == miniscript
10:34 < andytoshi> heh sorta yes
10:35 < andytoshi> in my head, what we currently call "descriptors" would become basically the outermost layer of a miniscript
10:35 < andytoshi> so adding bare() would be conistent with that
10:35 < andytoshi> and when we add taptree branches it'll also be consistent with this
10:36 < andytoshi> taptree branches are interesting, they're like descriptors (in that they're the outermost layer and arguably are "metadata" for a script rather than an actual script) and also like miniscript (in that they represent branching)
10:37 < andytoshi> but if miniscript and descriptors were combined in this way, we wouldn't have to try to categorize them
10:51 < andytoshi> my point is that, wpkh(), wsh() and sh() and taproot branches are special in that they have no serialization as Script
10:52 < andytoshi> so i think rather than distinguishing between "descriptors" and "miniscript", we shuold have one thing, with the caveat that those four fragments are "meta" fragments which are needed to embed miniscript in a transaction
10:52 < andytoshi> but which themselves don't correspond to any script
10:52 < andytoshi> and i think adding bare() to that, rather that leaving it implicit, might make that easier to communicate
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10:55 < sipa> andytoshi: but that means explicitly introducing a distinction between miniscript descriptors and others...
10:56 < sipa> i think renaming miniscript pk to pk_k, and introducing pk as a shorthand for c:pk_k is much more natural then
10:56 < sipa> because it means pk(X) can still occur anywhere, and would always mean the same thing
10:56 < sipa> and implementations can choose to deal with bare pk as "bare miniscript", or as some special cased toplevel thing
10:58 < andytoshi> ok that also works for me
10:58 < andytoshi> i have a mild aversion to changing miniscript again but i think we can just make some noise about it
10:59 < andytoshi> and anyway, until we have a BIP (i got a -lot- of requests for this, so that the definition won't just be on your personal website which might change or disappear) i feel like we can get away with changing things
11:00 < sipa> yeah, i prefer changing miniscript over fundamentally changing descriptors :p
11:01 < andytoshi> ok fair enough
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