--- Log opened Sat Feb 06 00:00:38 2021
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05:30 < dr_orlovsky> apoelstra: I need to cover script generation for LN-related outputs, and I can't use miniscript for that as is today. So the question: is it possible to have a dedicated miniscript terminal code for embedding custom raw bitcoin script?
05:31 < dr_orlovsky> Otherwise descriptor type system must have a non-miniscript version and it complicates all type system (for instance in case of wallet) A LOT
05:33 < dr_orlovsky> Another point: can we have a deterministic detection whether a given bitcoin script can be represented with miniscript in such form that with script1 -> miniscript -> script2 we will have script1 = script2?
05:34 < dr_orlovsky> (of course we can always try the conversion, but I am talking about analytical detection)
05:37 < darosior> dr_orlovsky: miniscript <-> Bitcoin Script is deterministic
05:37 < dr_orlovsky> nope
05:37 < dr_orlovsky> miniscript -> Bitcoin Script is deterministic
05:37 < dr_orlovsky> and Bitcoin script -> miniscript is deterministic
05:38 < dr_orlovsky> but what I am talking about is not determinism
05:38 < dr_orlovsky> miniscript::parse(bitcoin_script).compile() != bitcoin_script
05:38 < dr_orlovsky> sometimes at least
05:39 < dr_orlovsky> that's why you can't represent LN outputs with miniscript to get a correct bitcoin script for them - checked that with sipa
05:39 < darosior> It is, or at least should be. Also you said "nope" but then kinda demonstrated it yourself.. See https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-miniscript/blob/master/fuzz/fuzz_targets/roundtrip_miniscript_script.rs
05:40 < darosior> And current LN Scripts are not Miniscript-compatible
05:41 < darosior> I have a proposal for converting them somewhere.. Will start a discussion on the lightning-RFC soon :tm:
05:42 < dr_orlovsky> leaving terminology aside, I need to represent existing "non-miniscript" compatible LN output as a descriptor using miniscript. It is not possible today. I am asking to make it possible by adding some sort of `raw` terminal to miniscript
05:43 < dr_orlovsky> "can we have a deterministic detection" - replace it with "can we have a miniscript compatibility detection for a given bitcoin script" if you like
05:49 < dr_orlovsky> re lightning-rfc: even if it will move on miniscript, software will still have to support previous version of the script outputs, so it will not solve type system problem
05:50 < andytoshi> dr_orlovsky: no, you cannot embed non-miniscript in minisrcipt
05:50 < andytoshi> there is no typesafe way to do this
05:50 < andytoshi> idk what you mean by miniscript::parse(bitcoin_script).compile(), miniscripts are never compiled
05:52 < dr_orlovsky> s/compile/encode/
05:54 < dr_orlovsky> andytoshi: ok, thanks. This means we need non-miniscript descriptors additionally to miniscript-based descriptors
05:54 < andytoshi> yeah you could propose an HTLC descritpro
05:55 < andytoshi> or even implement one outside of rust-miniscript, now that we've turned it into a trait
05:56 < dr_orlovsky> not sure I understood what "propose an HTLC descritpro" means
06:00 < andytoshi> it means create a new Htlc struct and implement DescriptorTrait on it
06:01 < andytoshi> you could PR that to rust-miniscript, but you wouldn't have to, it'd work fine without being in the main lib
06:04 < dr_orlovsky> ok, I see
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08:39 < dr_orlovsky> andytoshi, sanket1729: I think the problem (LN outputs as descriptors) can be solved by (1) adding to `ShInner` new variant `Script(ScriptTemplate<Pk>)` and (2) doing `ScriptTemplate` which is a bitcoin Script able to abstract on key type (I already have its implementation elsewhere). Would you be ok with such approach?
08:39 < dr_orlovsky> I need it at miniscript library level so I can use `Descriptor` enum
08:41 < andytoshi> how are you going to implement any of DescriptorTrait on a generic script?
08:41 < andytoshi> how do you estimate fees? how do you construct witnesses? how do you determine satisfiability?
08:43 < dr_orlovsky> you are right, this will not work :(
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 07 00:00:38 2021