--- Day changed Fri Aug 07 2015
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02:00 <@sipa> i guess, when x>2y, you can replace with Px+2Py
02:02 <@sipa> why does ed25519 not use this?
02:02 <@sipa> or does it?
02:02 < gmaxwell> It doesn't. So, there is a ed25519 paper that talks about it.
02:03 <@sipa> it probably only helps with very large batches?
02:04 < gmaxwell> They claim in that paper that its a win at all batch sizes, though I think because of our other optimizations that it kills it probably isn't.   They also have a newer paper that goes into more detail http://cr.yp.to/badbatch.html .. but it looks as close as they have to an implementation is in python.
02:05 < gmaxwell> Paper also mentions an algorithim that should be asymtopically 2x faster, due to Pippenger  -- I got the paper but my patience ran out before I managed to extract the algorithim from it. :) (the bos-coster is super trivial)
02:07 < gmaxwell> The gain is greater with bigger batches (goes up with the log of the batch size).
02:08 < gmaxwell> I think how well it composes with the endomorphism is pretty much required to make it a win for us, but I didn't compare that much.
02:16 < gmaxwell> Credit cards suck: go to order some computer hardware; punch in a bunch of info ordering from newegg ordered from there a zillion times before, several with the same card and to the same ship-to.  Redirects me to some third party verification page with a domain name like "cardverificationservices.com" in a nested iframe to hide the domain. It asks for all the card info again, my phone number, and my so
02:16 < gmaxwell> cial security number! ... then I get an email from my card: transaction declined due to suspected fraud. I approve it, have to go back and redo it. Newegg split it into two charges for some reason, and as soon as I fixed the one the other failed for suspected fraud too.
02:16 < gmaxwell> bitcoin would be easier even if I had to write the txn in hex by hand!
02:19 < midnightmagic> good grief.
02:26 <@sipa> gmaxwell: the difference between you and the intended audience is that you do not need credit
02:29 < gmaxwell> Well, intended audience is kinda broad. They get me to participate by paying me 2% cash back on every transaction; ... also the same stupid anti-fraud story exists on the debit cards through the credit interface; we don't really use ACH/swift for online payments in the US.
02:35 <@sipa> getting an email from your card sounds futuristic
02:35 <@sipa> the only way i have been able to communicate with them is through phone or (dead tree) mail
02:37 < gmaxwell> The email was maximally infuriating, as it came too late to e.g. prevent them from declining the charge in the first place. :)
02:39 <@sipa> haha
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