--- Day changed Fri Mar 02 2018 01:02 -!- gmaxwell [gmaxwell@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:10 -!- gmaxwell [gmaxwell@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org] has joined #secp256k1 01:10 -!- gmaxwell is now known as Guest55984 01:37 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:37 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 01:57 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 02:11 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:11 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 02:21 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 02:33 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:34 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 02:47 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:50 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 03:00 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:01 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 03:20 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:23 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 03:38 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 04:41 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:45 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 07:08 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 07:18 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 07:33 < Taek> just wanted to say I found the above discussion to be super helpful, thanks to all parties asking and answering questions 07:34 < Taek> groups started to make more sense to me after it was explained that the addition/multiplication/exponentition stuff was all the same 07:34 < Taek> didn't realize it had been confusing me for a long time 08:04 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:07 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 08:28 < maaku> Taek: it's really frustrating that there's two notations -- g^x when dealing with RSA like things and x*G when dealing with elliptic curves -- and yet we call the latter exponentiation! 08:28 < maaku> i mean the historical context makes sense, but it sure as hell isn't outsider friendly 08:29 < sipa> yup :( 08:29 < sipa> current situation: two competing standards! this is terrible 08:31 < sipa> we must introduce a new notation that is just mean "the group operation" and "repeated group operation", distinct from add/mul mul/exp, and only to be used for groups that aren't rings 08:31 < sipa> new situation: there are three competing standards 08:34 < maaku> i'd be okay with that, as long as it was ASCII representable 09:08 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 09:10 < waxwing> P = x \o/ G to express the inherent joy in repeatedly applying the group operation? 09:18 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 09:42 < sipa> how about # and #* 10:26 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:28 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #secp256k1 10:33 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02 -!- Guest55984 [gmaxwell@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org] has quit [Changing host] 11:02 -!- Guest55984 [gmaxwell@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #secp256k1 11:02 -!- Guest55984 is now known as gmaxwell 16:00 -!- weez17 [~isaac@unaffiliated/weez17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00 -!- weez17 [~isaac@unaffiliated/weez17] has joined #secp256k1 16:47 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #secp256k1 19:30 < kallewoof> I kind of liked sipa's blah and repeatedblah suggestion. :P 19:43 < gmaxwell> it really makes a lot of sense to use + and * because all the orginary algebraic properties for those things just work. ... but then again it also makes just as much sense to use *, and ^ because the same applies there. :P 21:31 -!- indutny [~indutny@188.226.143.86] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in] 21:32 -!- indutny [~indutny@188.226.143.86] has joined #secp256k1 22:23 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24 -!- indutny_ [~indutny@2604:a880:400:d1::336:c001] has joined #secp256k1 23:30 -!- indutny_ [~indutny@2604:a880:400:d1::336:c001] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 23:30 -!- indutny_ [~indutny@167.99.4.134] has joined #secp256k1 23:36 -!- indutny_ [~indutny@167.99.4.134] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 23:37 -!- indutny_ [~indutny@167.99.4.134] has joined #secp256k1 23:39 -!- indutny [~indutny@188.226.143.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:39 -!- indutny_ is now known as indutny