--- Day changed Wed Aug 01 2018
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00:01 < Guest46824> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
00:01 < Guest46824> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
00:01 < Guest46824> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
00:01 < Guest46824> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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00:13 < lorimer19> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
00:13 < lorimer19> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
00:13 < lorimer19> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
00:13 < lorimer19> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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00:24 < cwre> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
00:24 < cwre> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
00:24 < cwre> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
00:24 < cwre> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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00:26 < tsglove> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
00:26 < tsglove> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
00:26 < tsglove> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
00:26 < tsglove> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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00:33 < nemesys> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
00:33 < nemesys> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
00:33 < nemesys> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
00:33 < nemesys> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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01:08 < zgrepc22> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
01:08 < zgrepc22> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
01:08 < zgrepc22> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
01:08 < zgrepc22> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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01:50 < cwre> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
01:50 < cwre> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
01:50 < cwre> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
01:50 < cwre> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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01:56 < Waggie6> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
01:56 < Waggie6> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
01:56 < Waggie6> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
01:56 < Waggie6> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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02:04 < Lausefuchs21> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
02:04 < Lausefuchs21> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
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02:38 < r3m0> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
02:38 < r3m0> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
02:38 < r3m0> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
02:38 < r3m0> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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02:57 < Demp28> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
02:57 < Demp28> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
02:57 < Demp28> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
02:57 < Demp28> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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03:14 < AlwaysHigh21> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
03:14 < AlwaysHigh21> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
03:14 < AlwaysHigh21> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
03:15 < AlwaysHigh21> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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03:18 < pendo3249> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
03:18 < pendo3249> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
03:18 < pendo3249> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
03:18 < pendo3249> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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04:09 < Mikaela> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
04:09 < Mikaela> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
04:09 < Mikaela> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
04:09 < Mikaela> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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04:49 < RussellB2812> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
04:49 < RussellB2812> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
04:49 < RussellB2812> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
04:49 < RussellB2812> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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05:35 < joycepao> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
05:35 < joycepao> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
05:35 < joycepao> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
05:35 < joycepao> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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05:36 < prettymuchbryce2> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
05:36 < prettymuchbryce2> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
05:36 < prettymuchbryce2> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
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05:37 < waxwing> ping andytoshi gmaxwell ^
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05:38 < richardjohn> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
05:38 < richardjohn> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
05:38 < richardjohn> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
05:38 < richardjohn> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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06:09 < Guest72861> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
06:09 < Guest72861> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
06:09 < Guest72861> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:09 < Guest72861> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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06:54 < wizonesolutions2> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
06:54 < wizonesolutions2> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
06:54 < wizonesolutions2> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:55 < wizonesolutions2> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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07:05 < waxwing> nickler, do you have ops here?
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07:31 < Guest97994> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
07:31 < Guest97994> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
07:31 < Guest97994> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
07:31 < Guest97994> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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07:45 < EdSaperia24> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
07:45 < EdSaperia24> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
07:45 < EdSaperia24> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
07:45 < EdSaperia24> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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07:53 < OvidiuS17> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
07:53 < OvidiuS17> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
07:53 < OvidiuS17> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
07:53 < OvidiuS17> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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07:59 < molz> this channel needs to have modes +rn like some other bitcoin channels but unfortunately the mods are still sleeping
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08:05 < AimHere17> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
08:05 < AimHere17> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
08:05 < AimHere17> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
08:05 < AimHere17> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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08:53 < Guest9905> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
08:53 < Guest9905> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
08:53 < Guest9905> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
08:53 < Guest9905> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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08:56 < davidebeatrici25> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
08:56 < davidebeatrici25> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
08:56 < davidebeatrici25> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
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09:29 < bernalex29> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
09:29 < bernalex29> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
09:29 < bernalex29> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
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09:59 < Hink> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
09:59 < Hink> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
09:59 < Hink> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
09:59 < Hink> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
09:59 -!- mode/#secp256k1 [+o gmaxwell] by ChanServ     
09:59 -!- mode/#secp256k1 [+b *!*@197.57.105.126] by gmaxwell     
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10:51 < joepie9111> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
10:51 < joepie9111> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
10:52 < joepie9111> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
10:52 < joepie9111> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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10:58 < molz> gmaxwell, could we get mode +r for this channel for now? because it's bridged to bitcoin core slack, we can't stop the posts from showing up there and mods on slack have to keep trying to delete these spams which we don't have time for it
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11:07 <@gmaxwell> I'm not particularly inclined to do anything to help the slack, I think it's really harmful to our community because it fragments it.
11:08 <@gmaxwell> (nothing personal!)
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11:15 < kaniini_> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
11:15 < kaniini_> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
11:15 < kaniini_> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
11:15 < kaniini_> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
11:15 < midnightmagic> I don't think +q $~a would be terribly harmful in the grand scheme of things.
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11:22 -!- mode/#secp256k1 [+q $~a] by gmaxwell     
11:23  * midnightmagic bows
11:32 < molz> thank you!  :)
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12:27 < maaku> If that mode sticks, someone should update the topic to reflect registration being required.
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16:11 < n00bington> yo     
16:12 < n00bington> so how secure do we believe ECDSA to be?
16:12 <@gmaxwell> I like your nick.
16:12 < n00bington> if there are all these rumors of NSA backdoors in the math?
16:12 < n00bington> gmaxwell, thanks dude!
16:12 < n00bington> .joint everyone
16:13 <@gmaxwell> ECDSA is not specific enough a question. If you mean secp256k1. The parameter for that curve were not selected by the NSA, and they are effectiely 'rigid' -- they fall out of simple and obviou criteria, they aren't random numbers that could have been backdoored.
16:13 < n00bington> gmaxwell, okay yeah
16:13 < n00bington> i've read the wiki page
16:13 < n00bington> I guess I just would like to see how the math actually plays out
16:14 < n00bington> like on paper
16:14 < n00bington> doing it all my hand
16:14 < n00bington> and that has been hard to figure out
16:14 < n00bington> in terms of secp256k1
16:14 < sipa> Overall I think most people believe ECDSA is as secure as the elliptic curve discrete logarithm problem over the curve we're working over
16:14 < sipa> but there is no proof for this
16:14 < n00bington> sipa, exactly...
16:14 <@gmaxwell> sipa: there is.
16:14 < n00bington> NIST made EC as you guys know
16:14 <@gmaxwell> It isn't as strong as the ones for schnorr.
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16:15 < sipa> gmaxwell: ok, GGM i guess
16:15 <@gmaxwell> n00bington: secp256k1 is not a nist parameter.
16:15 < n00bington> no but the math was developed by NIST no?
16:15 < sipa> no     
16:15 < n00bington> okay my bad
16:15 < sipa> NIST standardized it
16:15 < n00bington> duh     
16:15 <@gmaxwell> sipa: actually nist never standardized secp256k1.
16:15 < sipa> i'm aware
16:15 < n00bington> can you recommend a research paper that overviews EC well?
16:15 < sipa> but it standardized ECDSA
16:16 < n00bington> or some other resource?
16:16 <@gmaxwell> sipa: indeed.
16:16 < n00bington> err i guess ECDSA would be what I'm most interesting in for bitcoin
16:17 < n00bington> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Secp256k1
16:17 < n00bington> secp256k1 was almost never used before Bitcoin became popular, but it is now gaining in popularity due to its several nice properties. Most commonly-used curves have a random structure, but secp256k1 was constructed in a special non-random way which allows for especially efficient computation. As a result, it is often more than 30% faster than other curves if the implementation is sufficiently optimized. Also, unlike the popular NIST curves, secp2
16:17 < n00bington> 56k1's constants were selected in a predictable way, which significantly reduces the possibility that the curve's creator inserted any sort of backdoor into the curve.
16:17 < sipa> gmaxwell: i wonder if a proof exists that reduces the security of a modifies ECDSA scheme that treats extracting the x coordinate as a collision-resistant hash function
16:17 < n00bington> sipa, to my knowledge it does not exist
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16:20 <@gmaxwell> sipa: I believe what you're thinking of there exists, it's a proof in the "bijective random oracle model"
16:20 <@gmaxwell> that requires the projection to be a random permutation.
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16:21 <@gmaxwell> sipa: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2976749.2978413
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16:21 < sipa> the equation is just sR = mG + H(R)P then
16:23 < sipa> the attacker algorithm needs to at some point commit to R, and call H(R) after that point, fork the algorithm there and return two subsequent values on both sides, and the two s values will be 1/k apart, allowing you to extract the nonce and thus the private key?
16:23 < sipa> so you can use it to solve DLP
16:23 < sipa> (that's treating H(R) as a random oracle, which isn't a very truthful thing to do)
16:24 <@gmaxwell> I believe thats the approach that https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2976749.2978413 takes... though it's complicated somewhat by the modular reductions (per the abstract)
16:24 < n00bington> sipa, shit i feel like i missed part of the conversation lol
16:24 < sipa> you didn't
16:24 < n00bington> okay lol thanks
16:25 <@gmaxwell> I repeated the link you missed.
16:26 < n00bington> ah thanks gmaxwell
16:26 < n00bington> wtf     
16:26 < n00bington> why does acm have a paywall?
16:27 < n00bington> that is some serious lame shite
16:27 < n00bington> good thing i have an acc
16:27 < n00bington> but come on
16:27 < n00bington> Information wants to be free
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16:36 < n00bington> holy fuck
16:36 < n00bington> gmaxwell, could you post that pdf somewhere not paywalled?
16:36 < n00bington> my acc won't work for some reason
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17:18 < n00bington> or i guess i'll do it :P
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20:16 <@gmaxwell> amusing thing of the day; sage's hamiltonian path finder can randomly crash.
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