--- Log opened Fri Oct 23 00:00:55 2020 00:35 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined ##taproot-activation 00:44 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.74] has joined ##taproot-activation 01:31 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined ##taproot-activation 01:35 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:55 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined ##taproot-activation 03:40 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined ##taproot-activation 03:47 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:54 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined ##taproot-activation 03:58 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##taproot-activation 04:12 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:04 -!- jtimon [~quassel@146.228.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##taproot-activation 05:04 < jtimon> hi 05:05 < jtimon> I was tlaking on #bitcoin-core-dev about the thread "Modern Soft Fork Activation", is there anything more recent I should read? 05:05 < jtimon> like a summary on where things stand today, more or less? 05:06 < jtimon> hopefully I will be able to make my points heard and understood this time, one can dream 05:07 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined ##taproot-activation 05:07 < jtimon> in the meantiome I'll re-read that thread, but I remember feeling like my points weren't being addressed 05:07 < jtimon> I asked questions that I'm pretty sure were ignored 05:08 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09 < jtimon> well, there's the logs here too...let me look at that too 05:09 < darosior> jtimon: a summary of the discussions that took place in this channel has been put up here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Taproot_activation_proposals 05:11 < jtimon> darosior: awesome, thanks 05:11 < jtimon> presumably my contributions weren't taken into account since they happened in the mailing list and github rather than on this channel 05:11 < jtimon> I'll "start" there, thanks 05:15 < jtimon> we finally moved to height instead of time, great 05:17 < jtimon> oh, wow, and mandatory signaling at the end, just like I waned! double awesome! 05:18 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@unaffiliated/jonasschnelli] has joined ##taproot-activation 05:18 < jtimon> luke wanted that too IRCC 05:18 < jtimon> IIRC 05:19 < jtimon> I think he said it first 05:20 < jtimon> I guess there's simply no warnings anymore? 05:24 < jtimon> ok, I guess I'm fine with pretty much everything, cool 05:25 < jtimon> if ?I had to chose myself, I guess I would chose something like BIP8(true, 2y) for simplicity 05:27 < jtimon> the remaining issue is I guess the warnings only. the miners triggered them with their versionbit grinding because apparently they couldn't add a check in their grinding to avoid triggering the "it seems like something you don't know has activated" warning 05:29 < jtimon> could we perhaps write those 3 lines or so for them? I'm happy to do so if somebody points me to their bitversion grinding function 05:29 < zmnscpxj_> I think recent bitcoind no longer raises the warning? unless you refer to something else? 05:29 < jtimon> "it seems like something you don't know may have activated" actually 05:30 < zmnscpxj_> Ah sorry it still appears on 0.20.1 05:30 < jtimon> zmnscpxj_: yeah, I'm referring to that. what I explained is the reason it was removed, isn't it? 05:30 < zmnscpxj_> overt asciboost? 05:30 < jtimon> oh, really? I thought it was removed 05:30 < jtimon> yeah, over asicboost, I was calling it bitversion grinding, but yeah, sorry 05:30 < jtimon> overt 05:31 < jtimon> I thought it was removed, and we could re-add it (starting after the last miner fake-activation) if we educate the miners is I guess what I'm saying 05:32 < jtimon> like, we should probably have explained that in bip9, but there was no overt asicboost back then iirc 05:33 < jtimon> or I guess we can just live without the warnings, just my two cents 05:33 < zmnscpxj_> as I understand it the only way to stop overt asicboost would be to retire the `nVersion` field and require it to have a small number of fixed values 05:34 < jtimon> zmnscpxj_: my point is there's no need to retire overt asicboost, we just need to teach miners to do it in a way that doesn't trigger the warnings 05:34 < jtimon> it's basically a counter per bit and if it gets to high, force a 0 in that bit, no? 05:35 < zmnscpxj_> I think that would complicate the circuitry for asicboost, but I have not designed ICs in a long time so --- 05:35 < jtimon> oh, not, it's more complex than that, but not that much, I think 05:36 < jtimon> yeah, it would complicate the circuitry, I guess 05:36 < zmnscpxj_> and more complex circuit=more current (in general) which might mean effectively disabling asicboost 05:36 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36 < jtimon> I forget this is in hardware 05:36 < jtimon> damm, I guess we'll have to live without the warnings then 05:37 < jtimon> sigh 05:37 < jtimon> anyway, thanks zmnscpxj_ 05:45 < zmnscpxj_> np 06:03 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.114] has joined ##taproot-activation 06:04 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.114] has quit [Client Quit] 06:04 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.114] has joined ##taproot-activation 06:29 -!- justinmoon [~quassel@157.245.122.126] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:31 -!- justinmoon [~quassel@157.245.122.126] has joined ##taproot-activation 07:06 < luke-jr> jtimon: "MSFA" is IMO a non-starter in the first place 07:06 < luke-jr> jtimon: aj has an open PR to remove mandatory signalling in the miner-compliant scenario FYI 07:06 < luke-jr> I don't know if I have any objection to it, so maybe you can share your thoughts 07:07 < luke-jr> jtimon: there are multiple approaches to keep warnings 07:08 < luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1020 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1021 07:37 -!- darosior [~darosior@194.36.189.246] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] 09:51 -!- harding_ [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe7b:78d1] has joined ##taproot-activation 09:52 -!- willcl_ark_ [~quassel@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##taproot-activation 09:52 -!- windsok_ [~windsok@rarepepe.cash] has joined ##taproot-activation 09:57 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Ed0, harding, ares_, windsok, ghost43_, kristapsk, Murch, zmnscpxj_, DeanGuss, willcl_ark 10:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Murch 10:05 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Ed0 10:20 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ua-84-216-128-32.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##taproot-activation 10:33 -!- ares_ [~ares@gateway/tor-sasl/virtu] has joined ##taproot-activation 10:34 -!- harding_ is now known as harding 10:35 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined ##taproot-activation 10:36 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined ##taproot-activation 10:40 -!- moneyball__ is now known as moneyball 11:23 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ua-84-216-128-32.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@84.216.128.9] has joined ##taproot-activation 11:55 < jtimon> luke-jr: what is MSFA? 11:56 < jtimon> luke-jr: why remove mandatory signaling? that's good, I think 11:56 < luke-jr> [12:05:22] I was tlaking on #bitcoin-core-dev about the thread "Modern Soft Fork Activation", is there anything more recent I should read? 11:56 < jtimon> oh, I see 11:56 < luke-jr> jtimon: see the PRs by aj that I linked 11:57 < jtimon> yeah, thanks 11:57 < jtimon> I'm going afk though 12:06 -!- jtimon [~quassel@146.228.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:57 -!- jtimon [~quassel@146.228.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##taproot-activation 13:07 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined ##taproot-activation 13:14 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@84.216.128.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35 -!- jtimon [~quassel@146.228.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: gambpang_, jeremyrubin 13:50 -!- Netsplit over, joins: jeremyrubin, gambpang_ 13:55 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined ##taproot-activation 14:21 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation 16:15 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:18 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined ##taproot-activation 18:17 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 20:19 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@pool-100-33-69-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 21:16 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@pool-100-33-69-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##taproot-activation 22:11 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@pool-100-33-69-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 22:47 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Quit: .] 23:21 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has joined ##taproot-activation --- Log closed Sat Oct 24 00:00:56 2020