--- Log opened Wed Jan 27 00:00:27 2021
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02:54 < michaelfolkson> luke-jr: Can you elaborate on why it isn't safe?
02:56 < michaelfolkson> I understand that BIP 8 is an improvement in your (and other eyes) but I can't remember what the problems were
03:07 < michaelfolkson> aj had "“BIP 9 allows an activation attempt to fail” has been somewhat misleading — while it’s technically true, the fact that the activation could succeed at all is more important, and that possibility implies that we have to be absolutely confident that a deployment is definitely worth activating before we risk activation." in his post
03:07 < aj> michaelfolkson: it's hard to do a UASF on top of bip9 because loss of hashrate makes the ending indeterminate
03:07 < aj> michaelfolkson: "allows to fail" was only relevant versus bip8 prior to luke's changes
03:08 < michaelfolkson> Ah great, the UASF argument seems strong to me. We want the option to do an UASF in the case that things don't go to plan
03:10 < michaelfolkson> On the "allows to fail" what do you mean that isn't relevant anymore? Revised BIP 8 can now be allowed to fail?
03:12 < michaelfolkson> If that's the case that seems an improvement to me. I think I prefer the option of allowing it to fail in worst case scenario
03:45 < aj> michaelfolkson: yes, revised bip8 allows the deployment to fail unless lockinontimeout is set
03:45 < michaelfolkson> If the activation method is going to be revised BIP 8 it would be nice to have a succinct case for why before the meeting next week. That might save some time in the meeting. Arguments for and all the data suggesting it has support
03:46 < michaelfolkson> Mining pools seem happy with it https://taprootactivation.com/
03:47 < michaelfolkson> As a majority
03:50 < michaelfolkson> Are we already there on the developer front? Obviously luke-jr and aj support revised BIP 8
03:57 < michaelfolkson> I think you're offline benthecarman but come back and let us know if you're happy with the UASF argument for revised BIP 8
03:57 < michaelfolkson> (at some point)
04:11 < aj> bip8 with lockinontimeout=false is just a better bip9
04:55 < michaelfolkson> Assuming everyone agrees on that, that just leaves Modern Soft Fork Activation (Matt, BTC.com etc support) as an alternative to revised BIP 8
04:58 < michaelfolkson> Do we know if Matt, BTC.com, others who support MSFA are open to revised BIP 8 as an alternative?
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11:21 < BlueMatt> aj: and how in the hell is "its hard to do a UASF" a *bad* thing?!
11:21 < BlueMatt> when did bitcoin jump the shark
11:29 < michaelfolkson> Ah cool. Great you're here BlueMatt
11:30 < BlueMatt> at this rate, I'll be quitting anything related to bitcoin by next week.
11:30 < michaelfolkson> Ouch :(
11:30 < michaelfolkson> You free to chat?
11:31 < michaelfolkson> On the UASF thing, I can't speak for aj but my understanding is that we want the option of doing UASF if everything else fails.
11:32 < michaelfolkson> If this soft fork or a future soft fork ended up descending into a farce like with SegWit we want to have the option of a UASF to be available
11:32 < BlueMatt> 🤣
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11:32 < michaelfolkson> I guess that is a no
11:34 < belcher> i dont seem to have unicode, what character or emoje was that?
11:34 < michaelfolkson> Laugh emoji :/
11:46 < michaelfolkson> I think you've gone offline BlueMatt but I for one would be keen to get your input on how we can move forward
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14:14 < luke-jr> smh
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14:50 < midnight> belcher: open-mouth hard-laugh 45º CCW rotate around center, with tears and squinted eyes
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16:23 < aj> "it's hard to do a UASF" is a bad thing because when it's hard but necessary, people will take shortcuts and do a worse job -- which is why bip148 had a much shorter timeframe than it might otherwise have had
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16:26 < aj> (the same argument works for debates: talking with people you disagree with is hard, so people take the shortcut of just disappearing when there's conflict instead of trying to find agreement...)
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17:22 < luke-jr> also UASF being easy also reduces the liklihood it's needed ;)
17:23 < luke-jr> (and it being deployed upfront would probably eliminate any chance of hitting it..)
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 28 00:00:28 2021