--- Log opened Tue Feb 09 00:00:24 2021
01:21 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation
01:59 -!- Murch [murch@gateway/shell/hashbang/x-lcoemcezxlyvgvmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
02:09 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.164.201.9] has joined ##taproot-activation
02:18 -!- Murch [murch@2a01:4f8:141:1272::2] has joined ##taproot-activation
02:27 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation
02:29 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.164.201.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:29 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.164.201.9] has joined ##taproot-activation
02:30 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.164.201.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:30 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
02:53 -!- virtu [~virtu@gateway/tor-sasl/virtu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
02:55 -!- virtu [~virtu@gateway/tor-sasl/virtu] has joined ##taproot-activation
03:08 < waxwing> those twitter polls do not correctly characterise the choice in my opinion.
03:11 -!- hebasto [sid449604@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ednzgyvppabghumi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:11 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxjvkrdnytnjaigi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:11 -!- hebasto [sid449604@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lydasqkusyzuwduf] has joined ##taproot-activation
03:11 -!- pox [~pox@141.226.243.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:11 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmlhlibniyqbxxgw] has joined ##taproot-activation
03:11 < darosior> Definitely
03:13 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@dsl-olubng12-54fa17-92.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:14 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@dsl-olubng12-54fa17-92.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined ##taproot-activation
03:35 <@michaelfolkson> > maybe instead of LOT true/false, what we should be asking LOT=false advocates is _what timeframe_ they would be comfortable with LOT=true?
03:36 <@michaelfolkson> Anyone is free to run whatever polls they like (obviously) but I see the next meeting as discussing whether LOT is set to true or false within a BIP 8 (1 year)
03:37 <@michaelfolkson> As I've said before if that unravels and the discussion goes back to zero again someone else will need to pick this up
03:42 <@michaelfolkson> If LOT is set to false under a BIP 8 (1 year) and activation fails for whatever reason then a discussion is needed in a year
04:08 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmlhlibniyqbxxgw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:08 -!- hebasto [sid449604@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lydasqkusyzuwduf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:10 -!- hebasto [sid449604@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-diwgzwdyfnohchvk] has joined ##taproot-activation
04:10 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvokstcevqayiya] has joined ##taproot-activation
04:29 < darosior> michaelfolkson: or even before that. If there is no signaling in 3 months we can start having discussions..
04:29 < darosior> (Given the pools showed their good will to signal)
04:32 <@michaelfolkson> Sure. Personally I'd be happy to participate in that discussion in the case of LOT being set to false in a BIP 8(1 year) and Taproot failing to activate in the first 3-6 months
04:33 <@michaelfolkson> I sound a touch egotistical but all I can do is decide on my own actions ;)
04:58 -!- ajonas [sid385278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-euttqffzujmqylox] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
05:01 -!- ajonas [sid385278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkvzzewmevfwhusu] has joined ##taproot-activation
05:17 <@michaelfolkson> I know Luke will say it is irrelevant (I disagree) but we should get some thoughts from mining pools before next week's meeting
05:18 <@michaelfolkson> A number of them have previously expressed a preference for LOT=false https://taprootactivation.com/
05:21 <@michaelfolkson> But assuming LOT=false is set, it puts them in an awkward position if Taproot doesn't activate say in the first 3 months imo given they have pledged support for Taproot
05:22 <@michaelfolkson> With LOT=true set they don't have to worry about any building up of community resentment
05:23 <@michaelfolkson> I don't know. We'll see I guess
05:23  * michaelfolkson shrugs
05:26 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has joined ##taproot-activation
05:39 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:40 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined ##taproot-activation
06:02 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has quit [Quit: jonatack_]
06:02 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.10.25] has joined ##taproot-activation
06:13 -!- CARO1 [~Cesar@2804:7f4:c298:c4ee:343d:7e2d:b09f:c77e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:44 -!- CARO1 [~Cesar@2804:7f4:c298:c4ee:343d:7e2d:b09f:c77e] has joined ##taproot-activation
08:06 -!- ksedgwic [~ksedgwic@192-184-130-48.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
08:08 -!- ksedgwic [~ksedgwic@192-184-130-48.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##taproot-activation
08:15 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@pool-71-105-114-182.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:20 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@pool-71-105-114-182.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##taproot-activation
08:25 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined ##taproot-activation
08:33 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined ##taproot-activation
08:43 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.10.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
09:06 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.10.25] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:28 < robert_spigler> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-February/018380.html
09:29 < robert_spigler> I don't understand how F2 and F3 are arguments for LOT=false? For me they both read as "There is a chance that LOT=false doesn't work, and we ultimately will have to set LOT=true"?
09:31 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.34.17] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:31 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.10.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:31 -!- jonatack__ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:33 <@michaelfolkson> robert_spigler: F2 is saying the worst case scenario isn't that bad. The downside is capped at something that we can all live with
09:34 <@michaelfolkson> F3 is saying that any future soft forks would not need to have the LOT = true vs LOT = false discussion because LOT = false would have been totally discredited (barring a rationale for not activating within the year)
09:35 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.34.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:35 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.34.17] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:35 <@michaelfolkson> So this would save time for future soft fork activation discussions
09:35 -!- jonatack__ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:35 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:38 <@michaelfolkson> One of the challenges with this discussion is the lack of precedent with a soft fork activation on a large network in an atmosphere that is totally different to SegWit. If we had precedent on what worked best this discussion would be easier
09:39 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.169.34.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
09:40 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.169.10.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:40 -!- pox [~pox@141.226.243.49] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:41 -!- pox [~pox@141.226.243.49] has left ##taproot-activation []
09:44 <@michaelfolkson> If anything if you strongly want LOT = true to be used in future soft fork activations post Taproot you want LOT = false to be set for Taproot and it turn out to be a waste of 6 months, 12 months :)
09:45 <@michaelfolkson> That's why I don't think this discussion is as important as some people think it is. It is fine to have it though (especially if people feel strongly about it)
09:47 < robert_spigler> I believe it certainly is a philosophical/principled error, and it certainly will be a practical error at some future soft fork, not necessarily Taproot (although it might be)
09:48 < robert_spigler> I think Segwit already discredited LOT=false
09:48 < robert_spigler> and the increased risk of chain split is something that needs to be seriously considered as well
09:50 <@michaelfolkson> Lots of headwinds with SegWit, lots of bizarre thought processes, lots of contention on block size. Maybe that will repeat again in the future but Taproot seems the opposite to me
09:51 <@michaelfolkson> Saying something didn't work during wartime so it shouldn't be used in peacetime seems to me flimsy
09:52 <@michaelfolkson> I think the chain split discussion is most important
09:52 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined ##taproot-activation
09:52 < luke-jr> LOT=false is reintroducing a bug I *thought* we had fixed in 2017
09:55 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:03 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.167.158.191] has joined ##taproot-activation
10:20 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.167.158.191] has quit [Quit: jonatack_]
10:20 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has joined ##taproot-activation
11:09 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:10 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has joined ##taproot-activation
11:42 -!- DMN737 [uid485552@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hihfankidxaqvbhi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
12:03 -!- mitjavoll[m] [mitjavollm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ivlrmifbqduksqwq] has joined ##taproot-activation
12:44 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:44 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined ##taproot-activation
13:02 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
13:07 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has joined ##taproot-activation
13:32 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:33 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined ##taproot-activation
13:38 -!- gwillen [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:56 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has quit [Quit: jonatack]
15:02 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined ##taproot-activation
15:13 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
15:15 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has joined ##taproot-activation
16:42 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined ##taproot-activation
16:43 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:48 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:56 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:11 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined ##taproot-activation
17:14 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
17:36 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined ##taproot-activation
17:41 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:42 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined ##taproot-activation
17:58 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined ##taproot-activation
18:01 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:09 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation
18:12 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.166.119.89] has joined ##taproot-activation
18:14 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.167.158.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
19:15 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:23 -!- Murch [murch@2a01:4f8:141:1272::2] has quit [K-Lined]
19:24 -!- Murch [murch@gateway/shell/hashbang/x-hnduywbopvlelqpr] has joined ##taproot-activation
19:43 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.166.119.89] has quit [Quit: jonatack_]
20:21 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvokstcevqayiya] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21 -!- fjahr [sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnsvciziwascrtax] has joined ##taproot-activation
20:36 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation
20:37 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nkuttler
20:42 -!- Netsplit over, joins: nkuttler
20:43 -!- nkuttler [~nkuttler@unaffiliated/nkuttler] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
20:46 -!- ensuremoonrise[m [ensuremoon@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ngonilpjkowvtrfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:46 -!- mitjavoll[m] [mitjavollm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ivlrmifbqduksqwq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:50 -!- robert_spigler [robertspig@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xkbjtvagxjhmdpit] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
21:10 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:10 -!- mitjavoll[m] [mitjavollm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ztbgtmmgbhzmstiq] has joined ##taproot-activation
21:11 -!- ensuremoonrise[m [ensuremoon@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-txzphximekrisacx] has joined ##taproot-activation
21:25 -!- robert_spigler [robertspig@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rnsccjsdeotbttyd] has joined ##taproot-activation
21:45 < luke-jr> michaelfolkson: do we have a code review date set yet?
21:49 -!- CARO1 [~Cesar@2804:7f4:c298:c4ee:343d:7e2d:b09f:c77e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:07 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation
23:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
23:49 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:50 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##taproot-activation
23:52 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:56 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##taproot-activation
--- Log closed Wed Feb 10 00:00:25 2021