--- Log opened Thu Mar 18 00:00:59 2021 00:37 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation 00:44 -!- RamiDz94 [~RamiDz94@116.226.102.11] has joined ##taproot-activation 00:56 -!- RamiDz94 [~RamiDz94@116.226.102.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57 -!- RamiDz94 [~RamiDz94@212.129.10.242] has joined ##taproot-activation 01:01 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:16 -!- RamiDz94 [~RamiDz94@212.129.10.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:02 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined ##taproot-activation 02:02 -!- Topic for ##taproot-activation: General discussion on Taproot activation Logs: http://gnusha.org/taproot-activation/ Development of the LOT=true implementation belongs in ##uasf. Discussion on Taproot itself belongs in ##taproot-bip-review. 02:02 -!- Topic set by michaelfolkson [~michaelfo@2a03:b0c0:1:e0::23d:d001] [Sun Feb 28 16:59:51 2021] 02:02 [Users ##taproot-activation] 02:02 [@michaelfolkson] [ justinmoon_ ] 02:02 [@moneyball ] [ kabaum ] 02:02 [ _0x0ff ] [ kallewoof ] 02:02 [ Abelian ] [ kanzure ] 02:02 [ achow101 ] [ ksedgwic ] 02:02 [ ajonas ] [ lucasmoten__ ] 02:02 [ amiti ] [ luke-jr ] 02:02 [ andytoshi ] [ matt2 ] 02:02 [ b10c ] [ mdrollette ] 02:02 [ belcher_ ] [ meshcollider ] 02:02 [ bitconner ] [ midnight ] 02:02 [ BlueMatt ] [ mitjavoll[m] ] 02:02 [ bob333_ ] [ Murch ] 02:02 [ brg444 ] [ nehan ] 02:02 [ bsm117532 ] [ nickler ] 02:02 [ CARO2 ] [ niftynei ] 02:02 [ cguida2 ] [ nioc ] 02:02 [ common ] [ OP_NOP ] 02:02 [ copumpkin ] [ otoburb ] 02:02 [ criley ] [ parazyd ] 02:02 [ CubicEarth ] [ phantomcircuit ] 02:02 [ darosior ] [ pinheadmz ] 02:02 [ DeanGuss ] [ pox ] 02:02 [ dergoegge ] [ provoostenator_] 02:02 [ devrandom ] [ qubenix ] 02:02 [ dr-orlovsky ] [ queip ] 02:02 [ drolmer ] [ rabidus ] 02:02 [ elichai2 ] [ raj_149 ] 02:02 [ Emcy ] [ rich ] 02:02 [ emzy ] [ roasbeef ] 02:02 [ fanquake ] [ robert_spigler ] 02:02 [ felixweis ] [ rodarmor ] 02:02 [ fjahr ] [ RubenSomsen ] 02:02 [ gambpang ] [ RusAlex ] 02:02 [ ghost43_ ] [ sanket1729 ] 02:02 [ glozow ] [ sanketcell_ ] 02:02 [ gnusha ] [ schmidty ] 02:02 [ GoldmanSats__ ] [ sdaftuar ] 02:02 [ grubles ] [ shesek ] 02:02 [ Guest30742 ] [ sturles ] 02:02 [ gwillen ] [ takinbo ] 02:02 [ harding ] [ timeerrr[m] ] 02:02 [ hebasto ] [ uasf ] 02:02 [ hugohn ] [ virtu ] 02:02 [ Jackielove4u ] [ wangchun_ ] 02:02 [ jakesyl ] [ warren ] 02:02 [ jamesob ] [ waxwing ] 02:02 [ jeremyrubin ] [ willcl_ark ] 02:02 [ jesseposner ] [ windsok ] 02:02 [ jigawatt ] [ wraithm ] 02:02 [ jkczyz ] [ wumpus ] 02:02 [ jnewbery ] [ yanmaani ] 02:02 [ jonasschnelli ] [ yevaud ] 02:02 [ jrawsthorne ] 02:02 -!- Irssi: ##taproot-activation: Total of 107 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 105 normal] 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quit [Quit: Connection closed] 13:19 < jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: I would note that harding, the author of the post cited in your ACK poll, has concept ACK'd #21377, and has explained to you that this is in line with the proposal https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-792220340 13:20 < jeremyrubin> so I think -- perhaps regrettably -- there is really not something concrete people have ACKd other than a general plan and we have more than 1 solution to be in line with that 13:25 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined ##taproot-activation 13:28 <@michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: I don't see any problem with harding Concept ACKing #21377. I've Concept ACKed it too :) 13:28 < jeremyrubin> I'm just saying that the notion that people are ACKing MTP or Height and specific times is really not clear to me 13:29 < jeremyrubin> i think people just want whatever can get reviewed and merged and is not a year out 13:29 <@michaelfolkson> The ACKing Height is a collection of comments in addition to the meetings where BIP 8 was reviewed by many (including Core contributors) 13:30 <@michaelfolkson> I can collect together those comments on height if that appears to be contentious 13:31 <@michaelfolkson> I guess there are two problems you are potentially alluding to. One is MTP vs Height which Core reviewers can easily hammer out. I think they'll go with Height but I could be wrong 13:32 <@michaelfolkson> The second one is timetable. As I've said a delay of weeks is acceptable imo. However the planned activation height is mid November. If we are dragging that out into Christmas or the New Year I think that is best avoided 13:32 <@michaelfolkson> I'm skeptical we need a delay of weeks to discuss MTP vs Height 13:33 <@michaelfolkson> But if there are some strong MTP proponents out there it would be good to hear their arguments 13:35 < roconnor> I got a vague an possible mistaken impression from achow101 that there is some kind of Core release cylce that things ought to fit into. 13:36 < achow101> roconnor: every release has at least one RC, and each RC is published for ~1 week (there are some exceptions) 13:37 < achow101> there's also a couple of days between tagging and the release (RC and final) for the gitian builds and codesigning 13:37 < achow101> so if we are targeting a specific day for a release, then you need to factor in at least a week for one rc + a few days for the gitian build process 13:42 <@michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: I think your point was that the ACKs on the gist don't necessarily have any opinion on MTP versus Height. On that I'd agree. I'm not basing my assessment on MTP versus Height on the ACKs in that gist 14:02 -!- OP_NOP [OP_NOP@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/opnop/x-41418994] has joined ##taproot-activation 14:05 -!- OP_NOP_ [OP_NOP@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/opnop/x-41418994] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:27 <@michaelfolkson> luke-jr: I'll try to find it but what were the arguments for block height over MTP? It was definitely discussed on more than one occasion, I'm just trying to remember when/where 14:30 <@michaelfolkson> Sjors has "I think a fully height based approach is easier to reason about" https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-793818708 14:33 <@michaelfolkson> roconnor has "I believe the best way to proceed would be to rebase a BIP8-height PR on top of this PR." https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-791989090 14:34 <@michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin has "It does seem like there is a preference for height based activation as opposed to time." https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-791985294 14:35 <@michaelfolkson> benthecarman has "Concept ACK but would much rather have height based activation" https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-791967222 14:36 <@michaelfolkson> harding has "I completely agree that using block heights for the start and timeout parameters has advantages for this proposal (giving miners a known number of signaling periods) " https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-792220340 14:40 < achow101> luke-jr: aj: does it make sense to add into BIP 8 that a deployment can go from DEFINED to FAILED (skipping STARTED)? This can happen if the timeoutheight is less than one period of blocks from the startheight. This condition was caught by the bip8 fuzzer aj added. 14:40 < achow101> or perhaps just stipulate that the timeoutheight must be at least one period after startheight 15:07 < luke-jr> achow101: BIP8 requires that already I think? 15:08 < achow101> luke-jr: afaict, no 15:08 < luke-jr> I guess just implicitly :P 15:08 < achow101> or if it is, not where I expct it to be 15:08 < luke-jr> "timeoutheight should be set to a block height when it is considered reasonable to expect the entire economy to have upgraded by, probably at least 1 year, or 52416 blocks (26 retarget intervals) after startheight." 15:08 < achow101> it's not explicitly :) 15:08 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined ##taproot-activation 15:08 < luke-jr> clarifying up in the requirements sounds fine, but care is needed to ensure people don't confuse it as actually a sane idea 15:10 < achow101> there's also the question of how we should handle this in the code. I guess just test it in the unit tests and assert? 15:10 < achow101> *assert in GetStateFor 15:10 < achow101> see also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21392#discussion_r597258950 15:11 < luke-jr> well, the bug would be a deployment using it.. 15:11 < luke-jr> I guess an assert can't hurt, but seems more like something the fuzzer should just never attempt 15:14 < achow101> it seems like we should have some way to reject that so that when the fuzzer tries it, it correctly goes "don't do that" 15:14 < achow101> but I don't know how that would actually be done 15:15 < luke-jr> well, I mean it's kinda like passing a (void*)1 to a pointer field :P 15:15 < achow101> let's do the C thing and just say that's "undefined behavior" 15:16 < luke-jr> exactly 15:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53 < achow101> hmm, so apparently we have tests that rely on the defined -> failed behavior. The -vbparams=testdummy:@1:@1 arg is doing exactly that 15:53 < luke-jr> yes 15:53 < luke-jr> IMO that is a Core-specific internal thing 15:53 < achow101> but it's also consensus code that does that state change 15:57 < achow101> oh, I can change these to use @-2:@-2 16:10 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.173.214.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined ##taproot-activation 16:30 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left ##taproot-activation [] 16:33 < jeremyrubin> it is funky that with start time + active height that the active height could in theory be before the start time, but I think that degrades into just regular BIP9 16:56 -!- stortz [c8b9cbcf@200.185.203.207] has joined ##taproot-activation 18:09 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18 -!- CARO2 [~Cesar@2804:7f4:c29a:f13:7c3a:c9c7:c1a3:9e77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45 -!- z [49539482@c-73-83-148-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##taproot-activation 18:46 -!- z is now known as Guest90699 18:46 -!- Guest90699 [49539482@c-73-83-148-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49 -!- murrayn [~murray@unaffiliated/murrayn] has joined ##taproot-activation 18:50 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation 18:55 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:59 -!- OP_NOP [OP_NOP@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/opnop/x-41418994] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09 -!- stortz [c8b9cbcf@200.185.203.207] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 19:33 -!- CARO [~Cesar@2804:7f4:c29a:f13:6db0:abfd:5d36:7cc8] has joined ##taproot-activation 20:20 -!- OP_NOP [OP_NOP@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/opnop/x-41418994] has joined ##taproot-activation 20:51 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation 21:02 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined ##taproot-activation 21:17 -!- prayank [~andr0irc@2401:4900:30d0:b453:d900:b6f0:db5d:cd1c] has joined ##taproot-activation 21:19 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined ##taproot-activation 21:22 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25 < roconnor> michaelfolkson: using blockheights will guarentee 7 retargeting periods. I made this comment on the ML. Not a hill I'm going to die on though. 22:21 < luke-jr> 7? 23:22 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined ##taproot-activation 23:55 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Mar 19 00:00:00 2021