--- Day changed Wed Dec 04 2019 00:14 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@185.224.57.161] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 00:23 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: so, real_or_random, pipirell1 00:24 -!- Netsplit over, joins: so, real_or_random, pipirell1 00:24 -!- so [~so@unaffiliated/so] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:25 -!- so [~so@unaffiliated/so] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 00:45 -!- b10c [~Thunderbi@2001:16b8:3243:1100:bdee:a4b4:e4c:7487] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 00:47 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@185.224.57.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:00 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ec2-52-212-246-229.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 01:12 < kabaum> gmaxwell: Thanks for the clarification on k-of-n. And no, it really wasn't clear to me. 01:19 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@pool-100-33-69-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31 < gmaxwell> kabaum: more clear now? 01:36 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ec2-52-212-246-229.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07 -!- orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@2a02:1205:500f:2e90:44e8:6142:feef:d44f] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 02:10 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@2a02:1205:500f:2e90:d009:4f2d:a9d0:a572] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:19 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ec2-52-212-246-229.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 02:53 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:12 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 03:12 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@5.181.234.196] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 03:16 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 03:25 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@5.181.234.196] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 03:27 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@5.181.234.196] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 03:36 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.238] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 03:52 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@5.181.234.196] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 03:53 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:00 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 04:24 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 04:30 -!- potatoe_face [~potatoe_f@157.230.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43 -!- potatoe_face [~potatoe_f@157.230.27.253] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 04:46 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 05:01 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 05:05 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@ec2-52-212-246-229.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 05:17 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 05:35 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 05:52 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@93.182.128.34] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 06:06 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 06:15 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 06:19 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 06:28 -!- ZmnSCPxj_ [~ZmnSCPxj@180.190.32.188] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 06:33 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@93.182.128.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:42 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:00 -!- pyskell [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:15 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.154] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:19 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:19 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:19 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:22 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@185.224.57.161] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:43 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@45.152.180.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:46 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 07:58 -!- meh-2 [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 08:00 -!- pyskell [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03 -!- pyskell [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 08:06 -!- meh-2 [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:12 -!- arik_ [~arik@135.84.133.17] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 08:18 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 08:34 < kabaum> gmaxwell: yes, it's more clear now. For example, using personal 3-of-4 threshold signatures where I own all 4 keys will work fine, but if the keys are owned by non-trusting parties it gets harder. But you also say that traditional mulutisig is vulnerable (as currently implemented) in similar ways. 08:38 < andytoshi> kabaum: traditional multisig, where all parties have to agree, is easier because if anybody is trying to attack the protocol, there is no requirement that it succeed 08:39 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@185.224.57.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:39 -!- sanoj_ [sid385278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abxxlkwluecxrmfw] has quit [] 08:39 < andytoshi> so the security requirement is just that nobody leak key data or otherwise allow a forgery to happen 08:40 < andytoshi> there's also additional complexity in the threshold case related to secret-sharing; you can do regular multisig without any exchange of secret data 09:03 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 09:11 < nothingmuch> apical dominance might have been a better metaphor, but what with pervasive confusion about which way CS trees are oriented, and the fact that taproot outputs have leaves in them, taproot is a much better name 09:24 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25 -!- arik_ [~arik@135.84.133.17] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:40 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 09:45 -!- sanoj [sid385278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdosqynschnepghc] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 09:53 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 10:08 -!- arik_ [~arik@4.53.92.114] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 10:13 -!- b10c [~Thunderbi@2001:16b8:3243:1100:bdee:a4b4:e4c:7487] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:19 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 11:04 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 11:17 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 11:57 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:54 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 13:24 -!- Kiminuo [~mix@141.98.103.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:12 -!- davterra [~dulyNoded@195.242.213.120] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 14:15 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 14:22 -!- pyskell [~pyskell@unaffiliated/pyskell] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@195.181.168.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@208.69.41.72] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 14:50 -!- davterra [~dulyNoded@195.242.213.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:51 -!- davterra [~dulyNoded@195.242.213.120] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 15:14 -!- arik_ [~arik@4.53.92.114] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:19 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:25 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 16:11 -!- arik_ [~arik@rrcs-184-74-243-124.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 16:41 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@208.69.41.72] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 16:46 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 17:06 < sosthene> Hi there, sorry if it has already been said here but I've been off those days and might have miss the information, I just noticed I didn't get an email last sunday, is the code review over? 17:07 < sipa> no 17:07 < aj> nope, missed sending the email; the content's at https://github.com/ajtowns/taproot-review/blob/master/week-5.md 17:33 -!- arik_ [~arik@rrcs-184-74-243-124.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:03 -!- davterra [~dulyNoded@195.242.213.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05 -!- davterra [~dulyNoded@c-73-221-225-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 18:11 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:16 < sipa> no second Q&A session this week, i guess? 18:16 * sipa is here 18:21 < aj> well, as a meta-question, i've been wondering what we want to ask everyone at the end of the review, beyond just "hey how cool is taproot/tapscript/schnorr? 1=very cool 5=extremely cool" 18:27 < aj> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2SH_Votes https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016_QA might be comparable 18:37 < gmaxwell> I think it's harder to get a comprehensive review without also reviewing the implementation, which this process wasn't doing. 18:38 < sipa> yeah, i think that kind of yay/nay (if needed at all) is for a later stage 18:39 < aj> should get bip numbers assigned first, and i think we want to improve the implementation before heavy review of it? 18:39 < sipa> the tests need improvement 18:39 < sipa> otherwise i'm (personally) pretty happy with the code already 18:40 < aj> oh, that's great 18:40 < gmaxwell> sipa: right, but I think people haven't been looking at the implementation (at least not as part of this process) 18:40 < sipa> gmaxwell: yes, i've been actively suggesting not to 18:40 < aj> i've been redoing anyprevout on the new code, and it seems good. i had a couple of tweaks to make it easier to do unknown pubkey updates 18:40 < aj> but the tests are hard :( 18:41 < gmaxwell> sipa: If there is a backcompat minor revision of BIP-173 would it make sense to make v8-v16 explicitly reserved as non-encodable versions? 18:42 < sipa> possibly, yes - or non-encodable versions could use non-length-32 ;) 18:42 < aj> non-length 20 and 0x20 ? 18:42 < sipa> yeah 18:42 < gmaxwell> oh good point. 18:43 < sipa> if that sounds crazy (because we shouldn't let tx output lengths depend on a weird address encoding problem), i think there is actually an independent good reason for that 18:43 < sipa> things that we actually expect on-chain should be prioritized to be given 32-byte outputs (without other marker bytes) 18:44 < sipa> as there are only 16 of them 18:44 < sipa> and i believe there were some vague arguments why these non-encodable things would actually be only useful in non-cooperative scenarios anyway (even their creation) 18:46 < gmaxwell> Sure, 4wu is not the end of the world in any case. 18:48 < aj> using up one of 3840 v1-v16 33-bytes for weird rare cases that only programs should deal with instead of the 14 v2-v16 32-byte possibilities makes sense to me 18:50 < aj> the idea for the v16-identifiable-anyprevout stuff was that you'd only create it programmatically not manually via an address, and only do so if you were forced to a non-cooperative thing to remain indistinguishable in the cooperative case, so that would fit -- the extra 4WU in the address would just be noise due to the uncooperativeness anyway probably 18:56 < sipa> gmaxwell: anyway, my wasn't that because i'm ok with the code it's somehow completsly ready - just that once we're done with the bips i don't there is much left to do before it can be code reviewed 18:56 < sipa> *completely 19:00 < gmaxwell> right, my only point is that aj's yea/ney suggestions need to have the benefit of people having looked at an implementation. 19:06 < aj> well, yea/nay at this point is only really "any big problems with the bips or are we ready to get them numbers and move onto serious code review?" i think? 19:23 < sipa> yeah 19:24 -!- ZmnSCPxj [~ZmnSCPxj@180.190.33.188] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 19:25 -!- ZmnSCPxj_ [~ZmnSCPxj@180.190.32.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:11 -!- ZmnSCPxj [~ZmnSCPxj@180.190.33.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25 -!- arik_ [~arik@rrcs-184-74-243-124.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 20:50 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@135-180-42-232.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##taproot-bip-review 21:00 -!- arik_ [~arik@rrcs-184-74-243-124.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. 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