--- Day changed Fri Nov 27 2015 00:01 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:02 -!- warren_2 is now known as warren 00:02 < wumpus> Luke-Jr: no, parsing is something else than interpreting :) 00:03 < Luke-Jr> not in that context 00:04 < wumpus> anyhow I guess the reason we need this all is the mistake to use JSON for "very large, precise values", apparently this undermines why you'd use JSON in the first place: readily available libraries 00:06 < wumpus> it's a smaller example of why xml is a complex failure, yes in theory it's nice to have an interchange format, but in practice there's always something that makes your use-case slightly different from the general rules, and it may as well break all interoperability :) 00:06 < Luke-Jr> I think everything would mostly just work if we used integer satoshis 00:06 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:07 < wumpus> in the end could just as well have used our own, hand-rolled binary packet format, every language needs a special library to interface to bitcoin anyway ... 00:07 < wumpus> Luke-Jr: it may have helped a bit, though some JSON parsers can and do represent integer-looking numbers as doubles as well 00:08 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: doubles can be sufficiently precise in this cae 00:08 < Luke-Jr> case 00:09 < wumpus> in theory, yes, but in practice some platforms's FPUs aren't very nice and precise and introduce subtle rounding errors 00:10 < wumpus> that's the whole problem, at least integer arithmetic is well defined (except for overflow behavior, but we don't get near there for 64 bit) 00:22 < wumpus> Looking for ACKs for #7103 (fix settxfee, paytxfee), this one is quite urgent imo 00:24 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Squidicuz, davec, harding, JackH, bsm117532 00:30 -!- Netsplit over, joins: harding 00:30 -!- Netsplit over, joins: davec 00:30 -!- Netsplit over, joins: JackH 00:30 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:30 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: bsm117532 00:33 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36 < dcousens> wumpus: is there a commonly 'recommended' way to alert/notify node operators if bitcoind has crashed? Its obviously platform dependent and best left up to the operator as to how, but, I think a good 'recommendation' could help people recognize when their node has died if their new to it all etc 00:36 < dcousens> Might be something to include in the docs 00:36 < dcousens> Just a thought 00:36 < wumpus> I'd say that's in the domain of external process-mointoring solutions 00:36 < dcousens> wumpus: absolutely 00:36 -!- luke-jr__ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:37 < dcousens> But, that can't hurt a 'recommendation'? 00:37 < dcousens> Even a link/reference 00:37 < wumpus> I guess it's be possible to call -alertnotify in the case of a node shutdown 00:37 < wumpus> (at least an unexpected one...) 00:37 < dcousens> wumpus: probably not an assert though? 00:37 -!- luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr 00:37 < dcousens> or segfault 00:37 < wumpus> but in e.g. a pointer crash that's very difficult 00:37 < wumpus> right 00:37 < wumpus> I'm sure crash handling can be improved in general 00:38 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:38 < wumpus> (but it's only one in 23209843 issues that still have to be handled, I can't give it any special priority) 00:38 < Luke-Jr> well, if we cache the command in a C global.. 00:38 < Luke-Jr> SIGSEGV could be handled by simply calling exec() :p 00:38 < dcousens> If we don't have an external process-monitoring solution to recommend, then, IMHO, we should provide an option such as `-shutdownnotify` which catches some errors 00:38 < wumpus> the problem is that if something smashed the stack or the heap or etc, trying to do anything may fail or even be an security isue 00:39 < wumpus> it's non-trivial to do 00:39 < dcousens> wumpus: in which case, IMHO, lets just recommend a basic bash script maybe? 00:39 < wumpus> heck, just run bitcoind in a loop in a script and have it send a mail when it quits 00:39 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: even calling exec() with global params? 00:39 < dcousens> wumpus: thats simple to you or I 00:39 < wumpus> this is basic sysadmin 101 00:40 < dcousens> wumpus: also, running it in a loop isn't a good idea in terms of disk space 00:40 < dcousens> could actually be very destructive 00:40 < wumpus> right, then don't run it in a loop 00:40 < dcousens> wumpus: suddenly, software specific edgecases 00:40 < dcousens> (hence, a vetted recommendation is IMHO a good idea) 00:40 < wumpus> see, my ideas about this even suck, let's leave it up to devops professionals instead of trying to handle it crappily in the software 00:42 < dcousens> wumpus: what about in the docs though? 00:42 < wumpus> you can mention it in the docs, of course 00:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: JackH, harding, nanotube 00:42 < dcousens> (what I was referring to, agreed on not handling in software) 00:42 < wumpus> could add a mention about to https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node 00:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: luke-jr_ 00:42 < dcousens> absolutely 00:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: davec 00:42 < wumpus> Luke-Jr: globals can be clobbered too, unelss they're in .rodata but that doesn't leave you with much options :) 00:43 < phantomcircuit> dcousens, while true;do bitcoind -daemon;sleep 1;done 00:43 < phantomcircuit> then parse log file.. 00:43 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: I'd leave out the daemon :p 00:43 < dcousens> phantomcircuit: as above, thats dangeorus 00:43 < Luke-Jr> freenode apparently takes that "just run it in a loop" seriously. 00:43 < wumpus> otherwise you're creating a bitcoin fork bomb 00:43 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, huh? no you're not 00:44 < wumpus> (and a mail bomb, if it sends a mail every iteration) 00:44 < phantomcircuit> well yes dont send an email 00:44 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: the point is: -daemon exits immediately 00:44 < Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it won't bomb, but it'd be pretty silly 00:45 < wumpus> ok, the sleep 1 protects you 00:45 < phantomcircuit> fine fine 00:45 < phantomcircuit> while true;do bitcoind -server=1;done 00:47 < dcousens> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7111 00:47 < dcousens> :P 00:47 < wumpus> why not file that as an issue on bitcon.org instead? 00:47 < dcousens> Maybe the title sucks 00:47 < dcousens> wumpus: well, IMHO, its relevant to this software 00:48 < wumpus> and running in a loop was apparantly a dumb idea, please don't keep propagating it 00:48 < dcousens> ok, will remove that 00:48 < wumpus> (I also realized that's stupid in case of e.g. buffer overflows, you're giving your adversary infinite tries to get it right) 00:49 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, depends on what your uptime requirement is 00:49 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: that's better handled with redundancy 00:50 < dcousens> IMHO, all good things to recommend in that thread :P 00:50 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, agreed but it's expensive to operate a super high performance bitcoind node 00:50 < wumpus> expensive? for whom? 00:50 < wumpus> anyhow, of topic 00:56 < wumpus> dcousens: there's e.g. systems like https://mmonit.com/monit/ that can do the monitoring properly, send mail on crash, etc 00:57 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57 < dcousens> dcousens: to be clear, I'm totally aware, I already have something in place 00:57 < dcousens> This was for others 00:57 < wumpus> well I suppose you're writing a guide, so tips are useful right? 00:57 < dcousens> wumpus: sure 00:58 * wumpus moves on to something else 00:58 < dcousens> wumpus: thanks :) 00:58 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:59 -!- arowser_ [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:59 -!- harding [~harding@mail.dtrt.org] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:01 < dcousens> wumpus: thats actually quite a nicer program 01:02 < wumpus> it's probably better than "roll your own" suggestions, especially from me 01:03 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: btcdrak, Ylbam, challisto, gribble, arowser, evoskuil, d4de, bsm117532, PaulCapestany, AtashiCon, (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 01:03 < Luke-Jr> I like monit, if for no reason other than its GPLv3 being useful against Google <.< 01:09 < wumpus> adding documentation to run and monitor bitcoind with e.g. monit would probably be useful 01:10 < wumpus> any pulls that seem ready for merging and that I've overlooked? 01:10 < dcousens> wumpus: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7058 ? 01:11 < wumpus> been quite busy lately and volume went from <80 to over 100 again 01:12 -!- harding [~harding@mail.dtrt.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12 -!- arowser_ [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-142-236.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@38.121.165.30] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aekottcgcttrasda] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kcdeayhggdiycgds] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- blkdb [~blkdb@2a01:4f8:212:1ea2::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:13 < GitHub74> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f8a8e27a6a19...9a3e1a59dfed 01:13 < GitHub74> bitcoin/master cdcd816 Daniel Cousens: init: amend ZMQ flag names 01:13 < GitHub74> bitcoin/master 14075b1 Daniel Cousens: init: add zmq to debug categories 01:13 < GitHub74> bitcoin/master ffacd27 Daniel Cousens: zmq: prepend zmq to debug messages 01:13 < GitHub174> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7058: Fix ZMQ docs - Improve logging (master...zmqdoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7058 01:14 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.237.249] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:15 < dcousens> ta :) 01:16 < dcousens> wumpus: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-monit probably just that but tailored for bitcoind 01:16 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:17 < dcousens> and maybe a notification example 01:17 < wumpus> yeah good idea 01:18 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:19 < dcousens> wumpus: going to play with this myself over the weekend, will post what I end up with 01:19 < dcousens> I personally use mailgun to fire off logging emails 01:19 < dcousens> wumpus: any other recommendations? 01:20 < dcousens> obviously want to be a bit careful about that 01:21 -!- harding [~harding@mail.dtrt.org] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:22 < dcousens> interestingly easy to search :P, https://github.com/hardware/monit-conf.d/blob/master/bitcoind.conf 01:22 < wumpus> maybe what could help is ask around for people that run bitcoind in production on what they're doing - none of my nodes has any uptime requirement and I run them in gdb :) 01:23 < wumpus> hah, already done 01:23 < dcousens> wumpus: haha yeah, also found a mailgun config example :P 01:24 < dcousens> I think that combined with maybe some filesystem alerts etc 01:24 < dcousens> Should be the most useful for people 01:24 -!- Guest23423 [~guest2342@223.207.237.249] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:24 < dcousens> (and memory) 01:25 < Luke-Jr> lol 01:25 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: btcdrak, JackH, Ylbam, arowser, davec, evoskuil, BashCo, bsm117532, PaulCapestany, guest234234, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show 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03:51 -!- petertodd [~pete@ec2-52-5-185-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53 -!- sipa [~pw@2a02:348:86:3011::1] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:56 -!- teward [teward@ubuntu/member/teward] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:02 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plipsggbegraevun] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04 < jonasschnelli> sipa: does Checkpoints::GuessVerificationProgress require cs_main lock? 04:05 < jonasschnelli> is pindex->nChainTx immutable? 04:05 < sipa> eh... after it has been set, it is 04:06 < sipa> so for things in chainActive, it's immutable 04:06 < jonasschnelli> i don't see a need for locking cs_main during GuessVerificationProgress() 04:07 < jonasschnelli> hmm... chainActive.Tip()? 04:07 < jonasschnelli> that requires a lock i guess. 04:09 < jonasschnelli> but i could pass a CBlockIndex * (received from the signal) there. 04:10 < sipa> jonasschnelli: yes 04:10 < sipa> that would be safe 04:10 < jonasschnelli> okay... i try that 04:11 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:11 -!- d4de [~d4de@41.234.207.115] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:11 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:11 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@ec2-54-67-38-167.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:12 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@ec2-54-67-38-167.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:12 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@unaffiliated/jcorgan] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:12 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.237.249] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:12 -!- challisto [~challisto@unaffiliated/challisto] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:12 -!- wumpus [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/wumpus] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:12 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:13 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.237.249] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:14 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.237.249] has 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[supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:55 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:58 < phantomcircuit> sipa, neat 05:00 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:05 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:05 -!- challisto [~challisto@c-76-16-149-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:05 -!- challisto [~challisto@c-76-16-149-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:05 -!- challisto [~challisto@unaffiliated/challisto] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:08 < GitHub162> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2a94cd67e805...9502b7f634a7 05:08 < GitHub162> bitcoin/master faf12bc MarcoFalke: OpenSSL 1.1.0: Fix text variant of the version number 05:08 < GitHub162> bitcoin/master 9502b7f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7083... 05:09 < GitHub136> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7083: [init] Print OpenSSL version fix (master...MarcoFalke-2015-initOpenSSL) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7083 05:09 -!- cfields [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:10 -!- sipa [~pw@2a02:348:86:3011::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13 -!- d4de [~d4de@41.234.207.115] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:14 -!- cfields [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:16 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:17 < GitHub192> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9502b7f634a7...d8368a07baf2 05:17 < GitHub192> bitcoin/master 4ec3561 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Replace scriptnum_test's normative ScriptNum implementation... 05:17 < GitHub192> bitcoin/master d8368a0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7095... 05:17 < GitHub140> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7095: Replace scriptnum_test's normative ScriptNum implementation (master...2015_11_remove_openssl_consensus_checks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7095 05:17 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywhntzcuiqhjphcb] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:18 -!- btcdrak is now known as Guest36383 05:18 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:21 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 05:22 -!- CodeShark [uid126576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uivsxtvxhfarvqdq] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:23 < wumpus> woohoo number of open pulls is under 100 again 05:24 -!- Guest36383_ [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yjhlfmaugpqhkuob] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:25 -!- Guest36383 [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywhntzcuiqhjphcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:25 -!- d4de 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Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: midnightmagic, sipa 05:53 -!- [1]evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:54 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54 -!- [1]evoskuil is now known as evoskuil 05:59 -!- ParadoxSpiral [~ParadoxSp@p508B827F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:03 < GitHub46> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #7115: Mempool: Decouple CBlockPolicyEstimator from CTxMemPool (fix #6134) (master...6134-nits) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7115 06:05 -!- [1]evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:06 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:06 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:06 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:07 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:08 < GitHub43> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d8368a07baf2...d6454f6cb23e 06:08 < GitHub43> bitcoin/master cde857f Peter Todd: Connect to Tor hidden services by default... 06:08 < GitHub43> bitcoin/master d6454f6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7090... 06:10 -!- [1]evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13 < GitHub29> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7114: util: Don't set strMiscWarning on every exception (master...2015_11_exception_nomiscwarning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7114 06:13 < GitHub1> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #7116: Trivial: Fix warning introduced by #7053 by casting to uint64_t (master...fix-7053) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7116 06:16 -!- [1]evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:22 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25 < GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f3d0fdd3924f...93e0514fd083 06:25 < GitHub60> bitcoin/master c434940 daniel: uint256::GetCheapHash bigendian compatibility 06:25 < GitHub60> bitcoin/master 93e0514 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7078... 06:25 < GitHub112> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7078: uint256::GetCheapHash bigendian compatibility (master...ppc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7078 06:27 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Ylbam, PaulCapestany, blkdb, evoskuil, [1]evoskuil, ParadoxSpiral, paveljanik 06:34 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, ha was trying to figure out why petertodd/replace-by-fee-pullreq didn't cleanly merge 06:34 < phantomcircuit> because it's already 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joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:05 -!- [1]evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:05 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:05 -!- [1]evoskuil is now known as evoskuil 07:17 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:19 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:20 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:29 -!- Taek [~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:46 < GitHub85> [bitcoin] paveljanik opened pull request #7117: Print correct minimum mempool size in MB (master...patch-14) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7117 07:47 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:47 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:47 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:47 < phantomcircuit> ^ that one made me laugh 07:55 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:59 < GitHub146> [bitcoin] paveljanik opened pull request #7118: Describe maxmempool and mempoolminfee in the getmempoolinfo RPC help. (master...20151127_getmempoolinfo_fixes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7118 08:00 < GitHub131> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7117: Print correct minimum mempool size in MB (master...patch-14) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7117 08:01 < sipa_> patch-14, merged in 14 minutes. coincidence? i think not! 08:01 -!- sipa_ is now known as sipa 08:02 < paveljanik> 8) 08:08 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:12 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [] 08:13 < instagibbs> Should deprecation warnings be put in debug.log like everything else? 08:26 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:30 -!- Amnez777 [~Amnez777@unaffiliated/amnez777] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:33 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:35 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:46 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: blkdb, Ylbam, PaulCapestany, evoskuil, Thireus 08:56 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:56 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:56 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aekottcgcttrasda] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:56 -!- blkdb [~blkdb@2a01:4f8:212:1ea2::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:59 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:01 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:15 -!- d_t_ [~textual@c-50-136-139-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:20 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has quit [Changing host] 09:20 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@unaffiliated/jonasschnelli] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:24 -!- Anduck [~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: arowser 09:32 < jtimon> sipa: should I reopen #6445 now? 09:33 < jtimon> (or an equivalent replacement but a new PR) 09:37 < sipa> jtimon: that's a big refactor, not a small change like 7070 09:37 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37 -!- lightningbot` [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:40 < jtimon> sipa: so how will I know when "it is time" for #6445 ? 09:41 < sipa> jtimon: that one is part of the move consensus logic to consensus package? i thought you were going to write up a design of what the plan was first 09:41 < jtimon> sipa: the mempool is limited in size and we have rbf, I'm not sure what other "mempool work" I'm waiting not to interfere with 09:42 < jtimon> sipa: that's an optimization, not strictly required for libconsensus but I obviously haven't done it in a way that would hurt my plans 09:43 < jtimon> if that's closed, is for "not interfering with mempool work" just like 6068 and other things 09:43 < sipa> wrt policy encapsulation, my view is that we should only factor things out once they're stable and clearly safe to be configurable 09:44 < sipa> there is no bounds to what policy is 09:44 < jtimon> you mean never? 09:44 < sipa> you can't look at a codebase and say "yes, the policy here is encapsulated!" 09:44 -!- Anduck [~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:44 < sipa> ultimately, policy is all of a node's operations that are not consensus and wallet related 09:44 < jtimon> well, I can look at a codebase and say, "no, the policy here is NOT encapsulated" 09:44 < sipa> we're not going to move all of that into a separate package 09:45 < sipa> imho the policy package should just be a few safe and clear things that are configurable 09:45 < jtimon> I'm happy taking slowly it out of mempool, consensus code and main to the same directory 09:45 < sipa> but if there's no clear boundary it's just confusing... you can't guess what belongs where 09:45 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:46 < sipa> that's my point, there is no "it" 09:46 -!- ParadoxSpiral_ [~ParadoxSp@p508B9162.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:46 < jtimon> well, there' many things are very obvious to me 09:46 < sipa> policy is whatever you make configurable 09:46 < jtimon> so, never, then? 09:46 < sipa> i haven't said that 09:47 < sipa> but i do consider it not a priority, and hard to do now 09:47 < gmaxwell> And that confusion makes code unreviewable... when constantly you can't tell what things do because you have to chase n levels of redirection to find them. If they're configurable, then the answer at review is "anything" and you can review with respect to that. 09:47 < jtimon> I don't think it's hard to start now, not at all, but if I'm waiting for something, I would like to undesrtand better what I'm waiting for 09:48 < sipa> jtimon: wait for having the code that interacts with mempool/relay to be stable, wait a release, and propose a plan for things to become policy 09:49 < jtimon> so 6445 and 6423, for example, make the code more confusing? 09:49 < sipa> now it's just random moves, and (other than with consensus code) there is no obvious way for what is policy and what isn't 09:49 < jtimon> sipa: another doc for policy? 09:49 -!- ParadoxSpiral [~ParadoxSp@p508B827F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:50 < jtimon> I couldn't do that, as you say, that potentially never ends (unless there's ever a "right place" for people to put new policy stuff) 09:50 < sipa> 6445 is not policy encapsulation 09:51 < jtimon> no, but it was said (I can find the comment) that it would interfere with mempool code 09:52 < sipa> it's just churn... 09:52 < jtimon> that's why I closed it (that's what it has in common with 6068) 09:52 < gmaxwell> jtimon: I think you're missing what sipa is saying; everything that isn't consensus or wallet is policy, in an absolute sense. So unless the 'policy encapsulation' is just renaming main.cpp to policy then it is doing something more specific than encapsulating policy. Sipa suggests a candidate defintion for a narrower definition of policy which is that policy is things which are configurable. 09:53 < jtimon> gmaxwell, there's many more things than relay policy 09:54 < gmaxwell> I did not refer to relay. 09:54 < jtimon> I did 09:54 < jtimon> basically what I undesrtand by policy is relay and block creation policy 09:54 -!- lightningbot` [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:54 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54 -!- arowser_ [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:55 < gmaxwell> Even this is inexorably tied into the rest of the code. E.g. consider my most recent pages, none of them change constants but each of them substantially changes what a node will relay. 09:55 < sipa> jtimon: i really wish you'd work more on consensus encapsulation, write up where you think what should end up, have a plan, get people to look at it, and then at once move everything... i would love to see all consensus code encapsulated away in at least a separate directory... it will take some time to get people to agree, but i think it's something that needs to happen 09:56 < jtimon> anyway, I think I got my answer the "right time" for the policy stuff is "when code that interacts with mempool/relay to be stable", that is, never 09:57 < sipa> jtimon: instead of constantly open pull requests that move unrelated things, close them, rebase them, burden reviewers with change that interferes with things that need to happen now 09:58 < sipa> jtimon: it was stable for a long time before the mempool limiting and all related changes happened 09:58 < jtimon> sipa: I know what I will do about consensus already, I'm just trying to decide what to do with policy 09:58 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58 < jtimon> well, I was trying to make some of those changes before that happen to... 09:59 -!- arowser_ [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:59 < sipa> i'm aware 09:59 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:00 < jtimon> anyway, I'll rewrite my policy stuff on bitcoin jt 0.12, just like my consensus stuff and then decide, worse case I can just rebase a giant branch once per major release 10:00 -!- arowser [~quassel@2001:0:53aa:64c:20cb:3acf:9587:9ad9] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:00 < sipa> i'd wish you'd focus on consensus encapsulation 10:02 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:02 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:02 -!- lightningbot [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02 -!- lightningbot` [supybot@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:3a06] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:03 < jtimon> sipa: I'm sorry to get so bored about writing that pdf, but no hurry, right? no consensus refactors after 0.12 anyway... 10:04 < jtimon> in fact the document kind of depends on the outcome of #7091 10:07 < jtimon> fwiw, I'm not coding anything policy-related 10:07 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:09 -!- ParadoxSpiral_ [~ParadoxSp@p508B9162.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:16 -!- challisto [~challisto@unaffiliated/challisto] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:19 -!- ParadoxSpiral_ [~ParadoxSp@80.139.145.98] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:46 < GitHub102> [bitcoin] petertodd opened pull request #7119: Add option to opt into full-RBF when sending funds (master...2015-11-opt-into-full-rbf-option) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7119 10:51 -!- jtimon [~quassel@74.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09 -!- Guest67064 is now known as petertodd 11:12 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@icy.thireus.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:23 -!- d_t [~textual@c-50-136-139-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:37 -!- cocoBTC [~cocoBTC__@c-233a71d5.136-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:38 -!- challisto [~challisto@c-76-16-149-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:38 -!- challisto [~challisto@c-76-16-149-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:38 -!- challisto [~challisto@unaffiliated/challisto] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:42 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Quit: //..//..] 12:00 -!- zookolaptop [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:cce0:8669:97ce:1910] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:31 < gmaxwell> "subver": "/bitcoinj:0.14-SNAPSHOT/" sending me 38 pings in a second. :-/ 12:37 < sipa> maybe we need some exponentially decaying badness score, and increment for everything peers do 12:39 < gmaxwell> and decrement for a few things that are decidely good. 12:39 < sipa> like being the first to relay a valid block? 12:40 < gmaxwell> yes, or a transaction we accepted. 12:40 < gmaxwell> Then this score could just be another node sort criteria in eviction/rotation. 12:40 < sipa> yeah 12:40 < sipa> and if gets actually high, it could turn into ban 12:41 < sipa> also, i think banscores should persist across reconnects 12:43 -!- d4de [~d4de@41.234.207.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44 < gmaxwell> e.g. have the initial score be 0, with an IIR decay to 0. Add score for every byte recieved, substract score for every byte in a getdata we asked for; or ping response we initiated. 12:55 < gmaxwell> strikes me as kind of risky that CValidationState is initilized to MODE_VALID in the constructor. 12:56 < aj> gmaxwell: (maybe make it a goodness score instead, so positive values are, well, positive?) 12:57 < gmaxwell> aj: envision me looking crossly at your shed painting. 12:58 < aj> gmaxwell: (isn't it pretty!) 12:58 < aj> gmaxwell: (it can store scooters as well!) 13:01 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.56.39.224] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:04 < PRab> sipa gmaxwell: Would a persistent banscore make mitm attacks more powerful because p2p comms are unauthenticated right now? 13:04 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.56.39.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.56.39.224] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:05 < Taek> on a similar note, if you decrement for things that are good, an attacker can leverage that to intentionally get ahead. Unless your average peer has a zero-badness score in the first place 13:10 < gmaxwell> Taek: they can't if being good is inherently limited. 13:11 < gmaxwell> (except by actually being good, in which case they're not much of an attacker!) 13:18 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 13:24 -!- ParadoxSpiral_ [~ParadoxSp@80.139.145.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.56.39.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:01 -!- midnightmagic_ is now known as mmidnightmagic 15:01 -!- mmidnightmagic is now known as midnightmagic 15:42 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:43 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:44 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:45 -!- Squidicc [~squid@pool-173-48-117-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:46 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:47 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:48 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:49 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:49 -!- Squidicuz [~squid@pool-173-48-117-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:49 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 -!- Squidicc [~squid@pool-173-48-117-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:04 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:08 -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:11 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:28 -!- zookolaptop [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:cce0:8669:97ce:1910] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:24 -!- guest234234 [~guest2342@223.207.206.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@unaffiliated/jcorgan] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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