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02:01 < phantomcircuit> is anybody using the rest interface?
02:01 < phantomcircuit> it seems like a non-trivial amount of code to expose as an unauthenticated endpoint
02:03 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, ^
02:03 < jonasschnelli> phantomcircuit: mind the -rest arg
02:04 < phantomcircuit> ah it has to be explicitly enabled? how did i miss that...
02:04 < jonasschnelli> Yes... 
02:04 < jonasschnelli> But agree.
02:04 < jonasschnelli> Rest could be useful for decoupling the wallet 
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02:10 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yes, it's an attack vector, thats why it's been off by default... also why we kept json out of it. (thank god..)
02:10 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I've fuzz tested it some but still don't feel all that confident about it's security.
02:10 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: json is in there... :)
02:10 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: we kept json input out of it.
02:10 < jonasschnelli> Ah.. not as decoding. right.
02:10 < jonasschnelli> There is encoding.
02:11 < gmaxwell> which is why that bug in univalue wasn't a unauthenticated remotely exploitable bug.
02:11 < jonasschnelli> Yes... long term im worries about the amount of APIs in bitcoin-core: RPC/REST/ZMQ/notify-exe/p2p....
02:11 < jonasschnelli> *I'm worried
02:12 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, i strongly believe the zmq interface is unsafe
02:12 < gmaxwell> the ZMQ libraries themselves aren't secure in my past expirence. 
02:12 < jonasschnelli> And I have plans to introduce another... :)
02:12 < jonasschnelli> well... not anthoer.
02:12 < gmaxwell> but hopefully no one is exposing ZMQ in untrusted ways.
02:12 < phantomcircuit> ... what port does it listen on by default?
02:13 < jonasschnelli> Writing a BIP about extending the p2p protocol for private/encrypted messages.
02:13 < jonasschnelli> Things like "estimatefee", etc.
02:13 < jonasschnelli> To couple a SPV wallet over p2p
02:14 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, keep in mind that BGP attacks are very real when proposing such a protocol
02:14 < jonasschnelli> phantomcircuit: I'm not familiar with BGP attacks,.. can you explain that a little bit?
02:16 < jonasschnelli> The idea I have is a "auth" p2p command,... that authenticates a nodes against a pubkey (nonce signing or similar), after the auth, do a ECDH and encrypt further communication (maybe only the additional/private commands).
02:16 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, essentially an attacker can claim to route a third parties traffic and perform a perfect mitm attack
02:16 < jonasschnelli> I think with preshared keys and ECDH we can avoid a mitm.
02:17 < jonasschnelli> The ECDH would only happen if the auth against a preshared pubkey on the node was successfull.
02:17 < phantomcircuit> unfortunately i think basically what we would want is tls... except tls is a nightmare
02:17 < jonasschnelli> I guess this would allow to expose things like "estimatefee" to a single node (SPV) without opening a new DOS vector.
02:17 < jonasschnelli> No tls please!
02:18 < jonasschnelli> It's already possible with tunneling.
02:18 < jonasschnelli> But user experience is bad
02:18 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, i dont see a good reason to do that though
02:18 < phantomcircuit> "please show me the top x MB of your mempool" is more generic and allows the client to come to it's own conclusions
02:19 < jonasschnelli> main advantages of encrypted and extendable p2p com: a) SPV privacy improvement against a trusted full node (mitm impossible) b) additional wallet services
02:19 < jonasschnelli> I guess: "please show me the top x MB of your mempool" is not pratical long term for SPV.
02:20 < jonasschnelli> And with encrypted and extendable p2p commands, we could also decouple the node control (UI). The UI could talk with the node over p2p 8333.
02:20 < jonasschnelli> (Which is somehow very difficult over RPC)
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02:27 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, the ui and wallet should both just be spv clients which trust the full node "server" completely
02:28 < jonasschnelli> phantomcircuit: but could the UI (if detached from the node) get peer informations, mempool insights, etc?
02:28 < jonasschnelli> phantomcircuit: how could the wallet get fee rates?
02:36 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, peer info no, mempool... yes if bandwidth between the two doesn't matter
02:36 < phantomcircuit> (and it doesn't because localhost)
02:36 < phantomcircuit> (or lan)
02:36 < jonasschnelli> What if you wan't to have a secure SPV wallet on your cellphone?
02:37 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, get the full data for the last n blocks and the top n mb of mempool and build the fee estimates db itself
02:38 < jonasschnelli> Not sure if you wan't to do fee ests. on a smartphone if you also run a full node at home.
02:39 < jonasschnelli> somehow I think the model could be: <run your bank at home: full node>, <run your wallet on your smartphone: only trust your full-node, maybe a full p2p backup in case your node is down>, <have a vault at home: hardware wallet>
02:39 < jonasschnelli> And I'm looking for a way to decouple the UI from the node.
02:39 < jonasschnelli> And i don't think RPC/JSON would be good.
02:40 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, unfortunately request/response protocols tend to be either unreliable or super complicated
02:42 < jonasschnelli> IMO the only reliable API that bitcoin provides is the p2p "api".
02:42 < jonasschnelli> And it's async. RPC would result in long-polls or pulling-intervals.
02:42 < jonasschnelli> And p2p is already DOS protected.
02:44 < GitHub91> [bitcoin] Speed2016X2 opened pull request #7413: BIP: Block size limit based on average size (Russian) (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7413
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05:03 < GitHub27> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7413: BIP: Block size limit based on average size (Russian) (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7413
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05:49 < GitHub140> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f281caac48b9...9f796f3d2b53
05:49 < GitHub140> bitcoin/master e99edc1 Andrew C: Add achow101's pgp key
05:49 < GitHub140> bitcoin/master 9f796f3 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7400: Add achow101's pgp key...
05:49 < GitHub27> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7400: Add achow101's pgp key (master...pgp-key) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7400
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05:58 < GitHub6> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9f796f3d2b53...0893705ebfa6
05:58 < GitHub6> bitcoin/master 17b5d38 Wladimir J. van der Laan: devtools: show pull and commit information in github-merge...
05:58 < GitHub6> bitcoin/master 0893705 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7395: devtools: show pull and commit information in github-merge...
05:58 < GitHub83> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7395: devtools: show pull and commit information in github-merge (master...2016_01_devtool_more_info) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7395
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06:42 < GitHub25> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0893705ebfa6...6a5932bf2a4a
06:42 < GitHub25> bitcoin/master 5ed2f16 Andrew C: [devtools] github-merge get toplevel dir without extra whitespace...
06:42 < GitHub25> bitcoin/master 6a5932b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7402: [devtools] github-merge get toplevel dir without extra whitespace...
06:42 < GitHub75> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7402: [devtools] github-merge get toplevel dir without extra whitespace (master...dev-tool-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7402
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07:23 < GitHub26> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #7415: net: Hardcoded seeds update January 2016 (master...2016_01_hardcoded_seeds) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7415
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07:32 < GitHub89> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7410: Keccak hf: Fix mining centralization (master...keccak_hf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7410
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08:45 < GitHub107> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6a5932bf2a4a...473ad1bb0269
08:45 < GitHub107> bitcoin/master fae78fa MarcoFalke: [init] Clarify permitrbf help message
08:45 < GitHub107> bitcoin/master 473ad1b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7391: [init] Clarify help message...
08:45 < GitHub186> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7391: [init] Clarify help message (master...Mf1601-init-rbf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7391
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09:17 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: is -permitrbf still named such in rc2? can I reasonably PR a rename to it?
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09:31 < GitHub51> [bitcoin] xor-freenet opened pull request #7416: doc: Explain effects of -prune=<n> parameter in release notes (0.12...0.12-pruning-release-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7416
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09:59 < Luke-Jr> this is nice https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/42d2cd/was_bored_to_the_core_todayso_i_made_this_bitcoin/
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16:40 < GitHub137> [bitcoin] PRabahy opened pull request #7417: Minor improvements to the release process (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7417
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18:03 < gavink> i am considering a PR for the website. I think an issue is the community believes core = no HF. I think as an addition to the overall statements, it could be defined that an HF is likely in the next couple years. Listened to Adam Back interview and he said likely 1 to 2 years. Any feedback on this tone?
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18:05 < gavink> I did some previous corrections, so I'm familiar with the site. Possibly there could be a definition of what is the best practice and how an HF would be approached, so people understand the concerns, and how long it takes to do correctly. Thanks for entertaining my ideas.
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18:53 < Luke-Jr> gavink: depends on adoption, really
18:54 < Luke-Jr> gavink: Lightning is likely to reset block size to like 5k/block avg, so it's possible we won't need one for a while unless adoption picks up
18:59 < gavink> Luke-Jr: My question is core unwilling to make a statement that there is a possibility, and the current plan will go forward. Or is it too unclear to even hint to that. My sense is the debate is hinged that core will never HF, would it be interesting to expand potential long-term road maps, or theories to make it clear you have a plan to deal with volume. This might be too direct I understand.
19:00 < Luke-Jr> gavink: it is certainly possible IMO. but maybe other devs would disagree? dunno
19:03 < gavink> Luke-Jr: ok that's interesting. I've heard the claim everything can be changed eventually in a soft-fork, so what do you think is agreeable with a hard-fork much further down the road. My assumption is there should be a protocol or definition for what is the correct or best practice standard that core holds itself to, and why that requires more time, not that it's just out of the picture. Anyways, I'll see if Drak can give any insight, my guess based 
19:03 < gavink> on this is it's not something to be placed on the site then.
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19:05 < Luke-Jr> gavink: increasing the block size further than segwit, will probably need a hardfork. while extension blocks could make it a softfork, that is a stupid idea IMO.
19:05 < aj> gavink: gmaxwell's roadmap specifically says 2MB/4MB (or similar) hardfork patches should be maintained ready to go...
19:06 < Luke-Jr> gavink: even those of us working on Core are constantly learning more, however, and it's likely that a year from now we will have better answers on hardfork questions than we would have today
19:06 < gavink> aj, yes I've seen this, but where is it stated that it's actually still being considered.
19:08 < gavink> Luke-Jr I think this is a great message to make clear. What is being learned, what is the concern, how would it be approached. I respectfully do not understand fully this process, but I'm confused with the claim that core is permanently at stalemate with any 2MB or adaptive blocksize.
19:08 < Luke-Jr> gavink: Core plans to deploy 2 MB before summer
19:09 < gavink> ok this answers my questions, is this included on the website though?
19:09 < Luke-Jr> perhaps not clearly. I think the website people are working on improving that.
19:09 < Luke-Jr> there is a segwit FAQ page being made
19:09 < aj> gavink: that seems a pretty clear statement that a hardfork is a possibility. so i don't get where "is core unwilling to make a statement that there is a possibility" and "core will never HF" comes from
19:09 < Luke-Jr> (segwit does lots of things, including 2 MB block size)
19:10 < gavink> so the 2MB you mention is gmaxwell's plan, or the proposed benefits from SW
19:12 < gavink> aj it's more a tone from community, but i'll abstain from anymore confusion or "drama"
19:12 < Luke-Jr> gavink: yes, SW is a 2 MB block size increase
19:14 < gavink> ok fair enough thank you very much. thank you for your time.
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19:46 < moli> gavink: here's the roadmap that might help answer your question:  https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq
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19:53 < gavink> moli thank you, yes wow this does actually answer all of those questions very clearly. My bad.
19:53 < moli> no problem
19:57 < aj> wow, there are people who care about this stuff and haven't seen that faq? crazy
19:58 < belcher> that is the problem of public relations, you have to dominate the conversation
19:58 < belcher> simple points, repeat them often and maybe you'll get a 30% of people to hear, its hard work (phew)
19:59 < gavink> aj i have seen the faq, and read through believe me, i just didn't re-reference I'm sorry
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19:59 < aj> gavink: ahh
20:00 < gavink> i'm absorbing more of the stuff about segwit, the opinion box on HF is so full, it's hard to keep track of who said what.
20:01 < gavink> what sparked my re-interest, and slack is probably the better forum, was the adam back interview. so i'll be in slack :) thank you 
20:05 < moli> i haven't read adam back's interview
20:05 < moli> anything new in his interview?
20:20 < gavink> (these interviewers are a bit different) https://soundcloud.com/bitcoinuncensored/adam-back-interview-bitcoin-uncensored-at-miami-bitcoin-hackathon-012316
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21:08 < Luke-Jr> wtf is "Work queue depth exceeded"? O.o
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