--- Day changed Wed Feb 24 2016 00:00 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@c-68-34-102-231.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:02 -!- AtashiCon [arnavion@unaffiliated/arnavion] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:09 < baldur> the debug log is throwing some errors for me? 2016-02-07 08:49:50 ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool: rejecting replacement 070e4b88f6b188a37f862c9a7c9a1aff7285fcaefe329b8f55522106fd0bc0de; new feerate 0.00040349 BTC/kB <= old feerate 0.00046111 BTC/kB 00:10 < btcdrak> replacements must have a higher fee 00:11 < baldur> 2016-02-19 00:19:28 ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPoolWorker: CheckInputs: 945624be07514b307d27a37df67d4c7e2e67c9f76bdce64532cdcca8c74248d3, non-mandatory-script-verify-flag (Non-canonical signature: S value is unnecessarily high) (code 64) 00:12 < btcdrak> baldur: this is correct. but you should ask these questions in #bitcoin 00:13 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:13 < baldur> sorry, sure will do, just relatively new to see so many error messages in the debug log 00:14 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: everything before "No parent of 82bcf405f6db1d55b684a1f63a4aabad376cdad7 was signed with a trusted key!" is just informational - it lists every change to contrib/verify-commits first 00:14 < btcdrak> I wonder if these should not be prefixed as "ERROR" rather "REJECTED" 00:14 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: after that, it tells you that 82bcf405f6db1d55b684a1f63a4aabad376cdad7 was properly signed, but neither of its parents were 00:15 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: do we still support qt4? 00:16 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: yes. But we don't fix UI issues... kind of legacy support. 00:16 < jonasschnelli> We strongly recommend Qt5. 00:16 < jonasschnelli> Qt4 will probably be dropped soon 00:16 < wumpus> "soon" as in a few major versions haha 00:17 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: hmm...ubuntu doesnt like it 00:17 < wumpus> but yes, qt4 is legacy, don't use it for new builds 00:17 < BlueMatt> checking for QT... no 00:17 < BlueMatt> checking for QT... no 00:17 < BlueMatt> configure: WARNING: Qt dependencies not found; bitcoin-qt frontend will not be built 00:17 < BlueMatt> except nothing wrt qt has changed 00:18 < jonasschnelli> Hmm... it should detect qt4... did you try --with.gui=qt4 00:18 < wumpus> but unlike the change from, say, Python2 to Python3, Qt4 to Qt5 wasn't controversial at all, so there is an EOL 00:18 < BlueMatt> ugh, its remote build...pita to just test something 00:18 < BlueMatt> wait 45 minutes... 00:18 < jonasschnelli> :) 00:19 < wumpus> but yes, qt4 detection seems to be broken, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7189 00:19 < wumpus> not intentional, but you'll have to force it with --with-gui=qt4 00:19 < BlueMatt> ok 00:19 < wumpus> still not sure why, hope cfields will take a look at it some time :) 00:20 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: after executing `verify-commits.sh`, I get the changes in contrib/verify-commits, and then (after pressing q) a list of commits. Do I need to provide a src directory when executing: verify-commits.sh? 00:20 < jonasschnelli> verify-commits.sh only reports two commits in my case 00:20 < jonasschnelli> 075faaebf2e534265ff8aca015eaf03a8a156f32 and 2f601d215da1683ae99ab9973219044c32fa2093 00:21 < BlueMatt> huh? 00:25 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28 -!- jamesob [~job_@c-73-241-180-136.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:51 -!- xiangfu [~xiangfu@111.198.29.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:53 -!- xiangfu [~xiangfu@111.198.29.53] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:59 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:31 -!- alpalp [~alp@unaffiliated/alpalp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32 < GitHub53> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #7586: [Qt] fix for building against LibreSSL (master...2016/02/fix_openssl_libressl) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7586 01:35 -!- Thireus1 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:35 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:43 < GitHub125> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7585: Update rpcconsole.cpp (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7585 02:19 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:20 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21 -!- gevs [~greg@ip-80-236-216-202.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:21 -!- gevs [~greg@ip-80-236-216-202.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Changing host] 02:21 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:21 < GitHub164> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7581: Corrections of 0.12 release notes (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7581 02:34 < GitHub84> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a08c41dfc232...8b958ab15b8c 02:34 < GitHub84> bitcoin/master 92bcca3 Wladimir J. van der Laan: rpc: Input-from-stdin mode for bitcoin-cli... 02:34 < GitHub84> bitcoin/master f22f14c Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: mention bitcoin-cli -stdin in release notes 02:34 < GitHub84> bitcoin/master 8b958ab Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7550: rpc: Input-from-stdin mode for bitcoin-cli... 02:34 < GitHub28> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7550: rpc: Input-from-stdin mode for bitcoin-cli (master...2016_02_cli_stdin2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7550 02:38 < GitHub51> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8b958ab15b8c...317462123f8e 02:38 < GitHub51> bitcoin/master 6e4dfa1 Cédric Félizard: [doc] Fix typos 02:38 < GitHub51> bitcoin/master 3174621 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7583: [doc] Fix typos... 02:38 < GitHub65> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7583: [doc] Fix typos (master...fix-typo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7583 02:45 < GitHub112> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7559: [build-aux] Correct AC_PACKAGE_NAME brackets in bitcoin m4 scripts (master...correct-m4-brackets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7559 02:56 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:01 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:12 < GitHub199> [bitcoin] AliceWonderMiscreations opened pull request #7588: Sample RPM spec file for Bitcoin 0.12.0 (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7588 03:25 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:25 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:54 -!- Thireus1 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:54 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:15 < GitHub162> [bitcoin] jonathancross opened pull request #7589: Improving wording related to required Boost library requirement (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7589 04:45 -!- evoskuil [~evoskuil@c-73-225-134-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50 -!- p15x [~p15x@76.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:53 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:58 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:58 -!- laurentmt1 [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:01 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:01 -!- laurentmt1 is 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[~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:09 -!- Noice [~Noice__@2001:1900:2104:2::86] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:12 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.118.231] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:19 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.118.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@81.17.20.98] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:37 < GitHub160> [bitcoin] jonathancross opened pull request #7590: Improving wording related to Boost library requirements [updated] (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7590 06:37 -!- Thireus1 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:38 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:39 < GitHub23> [bitcoin] jonathancross closed pull request #7589: Improving wording related to Boost library requirements (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7589 06:40 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@91-159-8-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:40 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@91-159-8-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:46 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@91-159-8-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:46 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@91-159-8-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:58 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:00 < gmaxwell> hm nothing in listtransactions seems to show when a sent tx is abandoned. 07:00 < gmaxwell> other than that trusted is false. 07:01 < sipa> define abandoned? 07:01 < gmaxwell> having been throbbed by the abandontransaction rpc. 07:02 < sipa> ah. 07:11 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:15 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:33 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:35 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-134-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit 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#bitcoin-core-dev 08:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:57 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:fc08:5a17:e8c0:401d] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:01 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:02 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@217.170.197.92] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:05 -!- luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr 09:09 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@217.170.197.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:12 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:14 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:15 -!- Thireus1 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:16 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:17 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 09:20 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:22 -!- Thireus2 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:22 -!- Thireus1 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25 -!- Thireus [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:27 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:28 -!- Thireus2 [~Thireus@vps-92.197.170.217.stwvps.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:56 < morcos> gmaxwell: that was all left for later improvements because it was a battle to get abandontransaction included at the last second anyway! 09:59 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:59 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 10:02 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:14 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:18 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:21 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:21 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 10:25 -!- dermoth [~thomas@dsl-66-36-156-69.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:29 -!- dermoth [~thomas@dial-216-221-43-252.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:31 -!- AaronvanW_ [~ewout@x4db49f6c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:32 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-quxivoszhjddwgob] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:37 < GitHub99> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #7592: mempool: Reduce ERROR logging for mempool rejects (master...2016_02_mempool_error_spam) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7592 10:41 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:fc08:5a17:e8c0:401d] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:41 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:fc08:5a17:e8c0:401d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:fc08:5a17:e8c0:401d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ryanbpobizuuupqu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:04 < morcos> warren et al: i'm going to continue my musings on system effects of the limited mempool 11:05 < morcos> so i was thinking what you were about randomization of expiration delays or something.. but perhaps being in sync isn't the problem. perhaps being out of sync might be a problem. 11:05 < morcos> (and again there may be no problem) 11:07 < morcos> i've been trying to debug a particular issue where a node connected to 7 peers uploaded 250MB of tx data in one hour 11:08 < morcos> haven't quite gathered why this burst would happen at one particular time, but it occurred to me that if your peers are all mempool limited 11:08 < morcos> (or most of them) 11:08 < morcos> and there is traffic flow like that on the network that reaches you somehow 11:09 < morcos> you'll end up having to upload it N times for each of your N peers since they are rejecting it all, they will never inv it back to you 11:09 < morcos> of course they might receive it from someone else and thus have it recentrejects... 11:10 < morcos> so i don't know.. but 250MB in one hour is sligthly disturbing to me especially with so few peers 11:22 -!- chris2000 [~chris2000@p54B2C35F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:29 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:31 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:36 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48 -!- jon3ss [~jones@104.238.169.125] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:53 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE38E08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:01 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:20 -!- treehug88 [~textual@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:33 < Luke-Jr> morcos: after more thought, it seems to me priority should be added back to mempool 12:37 < morcos> Luke-Jr: You know that Suhas and I TRIED to do that and met a lot of resistance 12:38 < Luke-Jr> morcos: resistance from whom? 12:38 < morcos> sdaftuar_ even coded it up 12:38 < morcos> It was discussed on the PR and in IRC 12:38 < morcos> At this point I think that ship has sailed 12:39 < morcos> By priority being added to the mempool you really mean free transactions even if the mempool is full right? 12:39 < Luke-Jr> more or less 12:39 < Luke-Jr> I had gotten the impression you guys abandoned it, not that it was resisted 12:39 < morcos> We abandoned it because it was resisted 12:40 < morcos> I was torn personally about whether keeping priority was worth it or not 12:40 < morcos> But it seemed if we were keeping it for now 12:40 < morcos> we should have it work mostly consistently 12:40 < morcos> Thats why the two of us went to the trouble to make it work right 12:40 < morcos> But it seemed like an uphill battle 12:41 < morcos> And that in my mind pushed the weight of the evidence in favor of well lets just clean it out then 12:41 < morcos> I hate this half supported state that it exists in 12:42 < Luke-Jr> well, the current state isn't too bad, but the reason I think it makes sense to add back to mempool is that there is *no* economically-rational decision there at all 12:42 < gmaxwell> I thik full support would require effectively keeping two mempool limits, a priority oriented limit and a fee oriented limit. The extra index would be no big deal, but the rest? 12:42 < morcos> gmaxwell: that was all coded up 12:42 < morcos> there was a PR for it 12:42 < morcos> perhaps not the most elegant implementation, but it was efficient and worked right (well modulo the fact hat it never got much testing) 12:43 < morcos> i think sturles might even be using it 12:43 < gmaxwell> I don't think this addresses the potential issue morcos is talking about above though. 12:43 < morcos> but i don't understand the comment about no economically rational decision? 12:43 < Luke-Jr> morcos: relay nodes don't get the fees anyway 12:44 < Luke-Jr> their *only* interest in relaying transactions, is the well-functioning of the network 12:44 < morcos> yes but why relay things that miners aren't going to care about? you should relay things that miners are going to mine 12:44 < Luke-Jr> and priority makes far more sense there than feerate 12:44 < Luke-Jr> why relay anything at all? 12:44 < morcos> i don't see why there is an inherent benefit into relaying old rich peoples coins as opposed to relaying txs that will get mined 12:44 < gmaxwell> ^ 12:45 < gmaxwell> Having multiple mechenisms has a lot going for it, but priority over feerate? no. 12:46 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'm saying priority is a better metric, not that it should be exclusively used 12:46 < Luke-Jr> morcos: miners can only mine what is relayed 12:46 -!- Don_John [~Don@250-223-114-134.nat.resnet.nau.edu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:46 < morcos> Also a priority limit doesn't work like a fee limit in the case of eviction. 12:46 < Luke-Jr> morcos: ? 12:46 < morcos> It appears to me that to protect against DOS with priority txs you HAVE to have the rate limiter 12:47 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: thats magical thinking, if there is ever a problem of miners not getting relayed whatever they want, they'll simply spin up a few nodes (perhaps even sybil attack) and the issue is gone. 12:47 < petertodd> gmaxwell: and the code to do that already exists in my full-rbf fork 12:47 < gmaxwell> Aside: is it a known issue that bitcoin-cli will get disconnected during a rescan for importprivkey? 12:47 < btcdrak> There was a lot of resistance regarding priority, see previous meetings where it was discussed also https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2015/11/05/, https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2015/11/12/ and https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2015/11/19/ 12:47 < morcos> Luke-Jr: Also the idea that there is a min fee to get relayed, but then things can be prioritized differently is not a bad model 12:48 < Luke-Jr> morcos: I agree, it's not bad. But there's not much rationale to removing priority in mempool IMO 12:49 < paveljanik> gmaxwell, "yes" - see -rpcclienttimeout 12:50 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: as a wallet/user priority makes it harder in theory to get predictable behavior out of the system for everyone. Instead of "pay more for faster service" you get "uh, how old are your coins? how much space/profit are miners giving up for priority recently?" 12:51 < petertodd> gmaxwell: just wait'll people extend coinjoin w/ pay-for-priority... 12:51 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ironically, as things work out, priority is for low priority transactions 12:52 < morcos> We tend to try to do too much. Priority isn't bad per se. But it is a lot of code that becomes difficult to maintain especially complicating thinking about attack scenarios with mempool limits or bandwidth DoS. 12:52 < morcos> And we don't really imagine it serves that much of benefit to justify all that. 12:53 < morcos> Let's concentrate our efforts on more important things. 12:53 < Luke-Jr> the evidence suggests priority is important 12:54 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: indeed, but it still makes the behavior less predictable for other users. "I'm paying more than all those txn, why am I not getting in." 12:54 < Luke-Jr> (perhaps less so for the mempool, but it seems logical to support there) 12:54 < morcos> Probably would have taken me half as long to do the huge speedup to block assembly if i wasn't trying to keep priority working. That time could have been better spent doing other things. We probably could have had ancestor package mining for 0.12 12:54 < petertodd> also, tx fees are becoming quite important to miners - e.g. average block right now has about 1% revenue in fees, which is a very significant % of your profit margin if you're a pool - that'll double soon at the halving, and probably even more than that due to tx pressure 12:54 < morcos> I'm confused. What evidence suggests its important? (priority) 12:55 < Luke-Jr> morcos: 5% of transactions being mined via priority 12:55 < morcos> Luke-Jr: My calculations were 1% 12:55 < morcos> And that doesn't mean its important 12:55 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: even 5% is nothing in the grand scheme of things - what wallets take priority into account? 12:55 < Luke-Jr> also inability to de-stick stuff 12:55 < morcos> What's to say that anything would have been harmed if those 1% had to pay a small fee 12:55 < Luke-Jr> morcos: there is no way to do that yet 12:56 < Luke-Jr> RBF is not complete 12:56 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: what would make it 'complete'? 12:56 < Luke-Jr> those 1% would simply be stuck indefinitely 12:56 < Luke-Jr> petertodd: the ability for people to actually bump fees 12:56 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: even without rbf there is expiration now. 12:56 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: as in, wallet support? 12:56 < Luke-Jr> petertodd: yes 12:56 < morcos> Yes, so lets concentrate our time on fixing that! And again ancestor package mining (formerly known as CPFP) can be used to unstick stuff 12:56 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: that's coming, and will probably be ready by the time priority actually gets removed from Core 12:57 < morcos> Luke-Jr: those 1% wouldn't have been placed without fee if we didn't have priority 12:57 < Luke-Jr> morcos: I gave up trying to implement CPFP on top of 0.12 12:57 < Luke-Jr> morcos: yes, which means they'd be stuck 'forever' 12:57 < morcos> If you put literally ANY fee > than the minimum on your transaction, it has a very high probability of making it in a block within a week 12:58 < morcos> if your fee is less than 1014 satoshis per kB you'll get caught up in the spam 12:58 < morcos> otherwise you're in 12:58 < Luke-Jr> and if you don't, you're out… with no recourse. 12:58 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: please stop saying forever. 12:58 < gmaxwell> it's just not true. 12:58 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.118.227] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:58 < sipa> morcos: how hard is CPFP/ancestor package mining to implement now? 12:58 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's true given the current state of things, with priority removed. 12:59 < morcos> sipa: its done 12:59 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: they expire. 12:59 < morcos> just being tested and cleaned up 12:59 < Luke-Jr> morcos: is it? 12:59 < morcos> sdaftuar_ wrote it 12:59 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not in a way that users can take advantage of 12:59 < petertodd> what users actually are relying on txs that take a day or two to confirm anyway? where's the feedback from users saying they actually do this? 12:59 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: also a signficant amount of transactions would take months to meet the minimum priority criteria anyways, it's not magic pixie dust. 12:59 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: anything not micro-tx would be <1 week 13:00 < Luke-Jr> morcos: CPFP is inherently stateful. 13:00 < petertodd> if anything, having txs that take a week to get mined, but do get eventually mined, seems *more* misleading and dangerous than those txs not getting mined 13:00 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: 0.01 BTC, which is a couple bucks, from just created in a 1kb transaction... takes a long time. 13:00 < gmaxwell> petertodd: the fact that it's poorly handled by wallets is not good. 13:01 < Luke-Jr> morcos: for example, if the parent gets mined on its own, the child shouldn't include its data in its feerate/priority 13:01 < petertodd> gmaxwell: indeed, but such wallets need to get fixed - having those txs simply being dropped is probably less likely to lead to losses in many cases where the user thinks the tx failed and won't go through 13:01 < morcos> Luke-Jr: you mean block assembly is stateful or maintaining state in the mempool. both are true. mempool state is already done with descendants, its easy to do with ancestors too. the one downside is that there is a slight hit to block propagation, hopefully unmeasurable though 13:01 -!- cj [~cjac@104.36.247.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:02 < Luke-Jr> morcos: I mean as we add transactions to the template, the cached data becomes invalid 13:02 < morcos> Luke-Jr: yes in block assembly that state has to be updated, but so far the bench marks show it being actually ever so slightly faster, but basicaly about 7ms to assemble a block 13:02 < morcos> its a copy of the data that is updated 13:03 < morcos> its faster b/c in block assembly you no longer have to check for orphans. when you add a package, there are no orphan txs 13:03 < Luke-Jr> right 13:03 -!- cj [~cjac@104.36.247.28] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:04 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.118.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:05 < morcos> anyway, lets not revisit adding priority to the mempool. please. 13:05 < morcos> i think it would be reasonable to keep the modified calculation of priority as something miners can prioritize based on if we want to 13:05 < Luke-Jr> ok, for now 13:06 < morcos> i refactor CreateNewBlock substantially when I realized we werent' about to get rid of priority code to completely separate priority block filling and feerate block filling 13:06 < Luke-Jr> no new CPFP PR to review yet, I guess? 13:06 < morcos> i never pr'ed it b/c well just seemed like code for codes sake 13:06 < morcos> but sdaftuar used it, so now i will pr that 13:06 < morcos> not yet, but soon 13:07 < morcos> don't worry, i'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity for feedback 13:07 < morcos> :) 13:07 < Luke-Jr> well, I'd like to throw it in Knots sooner rather than 0.13 ;) 13:07 < sipa> what is Knots? 13:08 < morcos> sure, if for some reason it doesn't get pr'ed shortly, i bet sdaftuar would be happy to point you to a branch 13:08 < Luke-Jr> sipa: LJR 13:08 < petertodd> btw, looks like someone is using optin-rbf for fee bumping, possibly in production: https://blockchain.info/tx/4339a6a49f209b5260203a15b23621d37f8ed605e85525db4eac7e5be2fc04c9 13:08 < Luke-Jr> sipa: but less personal-to-me 13:11 < sipa> ic 13:11 < morcos> petertodd: speaking of opt-in rbf 13:11 < morcos> i haven't been paying too close attention 13:11 < morcos> but i see a lot of comments out there about how people can just identify it 13:11 < morcos> i wonder how obvious it is to everyone though that its inherited 13:12 < morcos> sure doing 0-conf with unconfirmed parents is fraught with risk 13:12 < petertodd> morcos: probably not that obvious, but those people will get defrauded in 10x different ways anyway 13:12 < morcos> but i think maybe we should make the extra effort to be sure everyone is aware of how it works 13:12 -!- jon3ss [~jones@104.238.169.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12 < morcos> its a bit non-intuitive 13:13 < morcos> like a warning disclaimer or something 13:13 < petertodd> morcos: IMO the best way to do that is make easy to use tools that use it, and let people understand that for themselves 13:14 < morcos> well i think we did PR poorly on the feature in the first place, i don't wnat to kind of get hit with that again b/c they feel like there was a hidden way aroudn the opt'ing in aspect 13:14 < morcos> communication solves many problems 13:15 < petertodd> morcos: well, mycelium just added support to show rbf txs, and they did it the "right" way, even showing other examples like low fee txs 13:15 < petertodd> morcos: the audience of people who will be writing code to deal with this is relatively small 13:15 < morcos> oh, nice... ok 13:16 < petertodd> it's right in the BIP for it too: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0125.mediawiki#summary 13:17 < Luke-Jr> eh, showing it at all is "wrong" IMO :p 13:17 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: agreed, but we've lost that battle :) 13:17 < Luke-Jr> not really 13:18 < sipa> Luke-Jr: well, the alternative is not showing unconfirmed transactions at all :) 13:18 < sipa> not just not showing replacable ones 13:18 < petertodd> sipa: eh, showing unconfirmed isn't such a big deal, trying to do risk analysis on them though is kinda nuts 13:18 < sipa> petertodd: that's why you shouldn't show them :) 13:19 < petertodd> sipa: well, showing them as unconfirmed is a nice UI thing that I think is fine in the trusted case 13:19 < sipa> to be clear: i'm not actually arguing for not showing them at all 13:19 < sipa> petertodd: if they're trusted, a replacable one is also trusted 13:19 < petertodd> sipa: exactly! why all unconfirmed should probably be shown equally 13:20 < petertodd> sipa: warning that a tx may take awhile to confirm due to low fee may be ok in an advanced users mode... but nothing more fancy than that 13:20 < petertodd> sipa: equally, the other approach is user education, which is achieved very well by giving users a 'cancel tx' button 13:21 < Luke-Jr> sipa: the alternative is showing unconfirmed transactions equally 13:23 < Luke-Jr> RBF doesn't change anything much really 13:23 < petertodd> Luke-Jr: indeed! https://petertodd.org/2016/are-wallets-ready-for-rbf :) 13:24 -!- sdaftuar_ is now known as sdaftuar 13:25 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:26 < paveljanik> Will there be any #400000 online party tomorrow? 13:26 -!- abbath [b84b54a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.84.162] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:32 -!- wallet421 [~wallet42@173.247.193.134] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:32 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:35 -!- abbath [b84b54a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.84.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:36 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:36 -!- wallet421 [~wallet42@173.247.193.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.58.33.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37 -!- wallet421 [~wallet42@173.247.193.134] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:39 -!- chris2000 [~chris2000@p54B2C35F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 13:39 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.58.33.159] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:41 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.122.52.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:44 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.58.33.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45 -!- Amnez777 [~Amnez777@37.157.216.147] has quit [Changing host] 13:45 -!- Amnez777 [~Amnez777@unaffiliated/amnez777] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:47 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.58.33.159] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:49 < sturles> morcos: I still use the patch, and have "mempoolminpriority" and "priorityusage" in the output from getmempoolinfo. :-) 13:52 -!- treehug88 [~textual@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53 -!- Bootvis [bob@baltar.lan.endoria.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:08 < sdaftuar> sturles: hah, i forgot i added that to the rpc call 14:08 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08 < sdaftuar> Luke-Jr: ancestor package tracking PR coming shortly. would be nice to have #7539 merged first but i'll just open a pr anyway 14:09 < sdaftuar> Luke-Jr: ancestor package mining PR will build on that and morcos' refactor PR, so might take another day or two 14:23 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.58.33.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24 -!- mesmer [~mesmer@unaffiliated/mesmer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:30 < GitHub122> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #7594: Mempool: Add tracking of ancestor packages (master...ancestor-tracking) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7594 14:45 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-229-199-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:50 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: can you remind me the reason that we've discarded composite scores? e.g. using ancestorfeerate + log(priority)*C or feerate>x?feerate:min(x,priority*C) ? I know I've asked this before. 14:57 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:03 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't know that it has been discarded? 15:19 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-229-199-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:20 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-229-199-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:21 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25 -!- wallet421 [~wallet42@173.247.193.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:28 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:29 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE38E08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38 -!- 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[~Thireus@217.170.197.92] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:48 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.119.91.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@81.17.20.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:09 < GitHub107> [bitcoin] promag closed pull request #6570: Add option to specify rescan starting timestamp to RPC import calls (master...feature/import-rescan-from-block-index) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6570 17:10 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:13 < GitHub184> [bitcoin] promag closed pull request #7498: Add createtransaction (master...feature/rpc-createtransaction) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7498 17:17 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:24 -!- 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#bitcoin-core-dev 18:54 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:28 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 19:34 -!- achow101 [~achow101@pool-96-227-114-115.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:49 -!- achow101 [~achow101@pool-96-227-114-115.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.119.91.62] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:53 < GitHub23> [bitcoin] AliceWonderMiscreations closed pull request #7588: Sample RPM spec file for Bitcoin 0.12.0 (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7588 19:54 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@123.119.91.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20 -!- p15x [~p15x@60.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has joined 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