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00:23 < dcousens> phantomcircuit: you could just iterate over the inputs and grab them yourself?  Or is the point to be 'all in one'?
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00:29 < phantomcircuit> dcousens, the point is to be lazy :P
00:29 < phantomcircuit> er uh
00:29 < phantomcircuit> yes all in one!
00:29 < phantomcircuit> this seems like something decoderawtransaction should attempt to do
00:31 < dcousens> phantomcircuit: understandably,  but,  you could do that for so many RPC calls :S
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00:31 < dcousens> you could probably use wumpus's RPC extension idea to do this
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00:34 < phantomcircuit> dcousens, indeed i can do this with the gettxout rpc call
00:34 < phantomcircuit> but well
00:34 < phantomcircuit> so much work
00:35 < dcousens> dcousens: really?  its like 5 lines of JS,  if you're using JS
00:35 < dcousens> depending on whether you're doing batched results or not, I suppose
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00:38 < dcousens> rpc('decoderawtransaction', [txHex]...     async.map(result.ins, (input, callback) => { rpc('getrawtransaction', [input.txid, true], (err, tx) => { callback(null, tx.outs[input.vout].value) }) ... or some such
00:38 < dcousens> or even the gettxout rpc haha
00:39 < dcousens> but that might depend on your needs, IIRC gettxout is for UTXOs only
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01:34 < sipa> phantomcircuit: it can't generally work, unless all inputs are still unspent
01:42 < sipa> we could add it as output to sendrawtransaction perhaps, which always knows the fee
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04:30 < GitHub77> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cbe9ae8c69b9...e82fb872ff5c
04:30 < GitHub77> bitcoin/master 4424af5 Pieter Wuille: Predeclare PrecomputedTransactionData as sturct
04:30 < GitHub77> bitcoin/master e82fb87 Pieter Wuille: Merge #8651: Predeclare PrecomputedTransactionData as struct...
04:30 < GitHub70> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8651: Predeclare PrecomputedTransactionData as struct (master...classtructblah) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8651
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07:36 < BlueMatt> hmmmm
07:37 < BlueMatt> ok, so ubuntu 12.04lts is still supported with gcc 4.6.3...bitcoind will refuse to ./configure on that because it doesnt support -std=c++11.....
07:38 < BlueMatt> so options are: hack things to compile with -std=c++0x (terrible idea, lets not do this), leave it on 0.12.1, or "upgrade" it to a dummy package that removes bitcoind and just gives a popup that tells people to upgrade
07:40 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, can’t you just update gcc?
07:40 < Lightsword> is this for ppa?
07:41 < BlueMatt> for ppa, yea
07:41 < BlueMatt> i mean I could probably convince launchpad to install a backported gcc for the building of that package
07:42 < BlueMatt> but....eww
07:42 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, does launchpad compile it themselves or do you compile it locally then upload it to them?
07:42 < BlueMatt> they do the compilation
07:43 < BlueMatt> if not I'd just be uploading the statically-compiled packages
07:43 < BlueMatt> gitian ones, that is
07:44 < sipa> i wonder how much of c++11 we use in 0.13.0
07:44 < sipa> not much, i think
07:44 < BlueMatt> https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.6/cxx0x_status.html
07:44 < BlueMatt> I mean I'd bet it would compile and probably work, but I'm not really sure I'd want to ship something that probably works and might have compiler bugs in it
07:45 < sipa> maybe std::atomic is the only thing
07:45 < sipa> yes, agree
07:48 < BlueMatt> whats min gcc we support?
07:49 < sipa> 4.7
07:50 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, is clang on 12.04 a high enough version?
07:51 < sipa> 4.7 may just work
07:52 < sipa> eh, 4.6 may just work
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07:52 < sipa> with -std=c++0x
07:52 < BlueMatt> sipa: it does not recognize -std=c++11, only -std=c++0x
07:52 < BlueMatt> yes, I'd kinda prefer to not do that?
07:53 < sipa> does 4.6 have any known bugs?
07:53 < BlueMatt> this is my question, I suppose
07:53 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: good point, looks like that could be an option
07:54 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, does launchpad not let you use a custom gcc version?
07:55 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: I can tell it to depend on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ubuntu/test and then change the configure flags to use whatever, I think
07:55 < Lightsword> yeah, I would think that would be best probably
07:55 < sipa> clang-3.4 is in precise
07:55 < sipa> we need 3.3 or higher
07:55 < BlueMatt> yes, clang looks pretty well-supported
07:55 < BlueMatt> so I could swap to clang
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07:57 < sipa> seems clang 3.3 supports c++11 completely
07:57 < BlueMatt> indeed
07:57 < sipa> while for some features, gcc 4.8 is even needed
07:58 < BlueMatt> yea, clang was much faster for ++11
07:58 < Lightsword> faster to compile or faster performing binaries?
07:58 < BlueMatt> earlier to ship c++11 features, sorry
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08:01 < BlueMatt> yea, I think that might be better than "test builds"
08:01 < BlueMatt> would anyone object to bitcoin-ppa on precise being compiled with clang?
08:01  * Lightsword wonders if anyone is even still using precise
08:01 < BlueMatt> I think I got one or two emails when I didnt update it previously
08:02 < Lightsword> how long ago was that?
08:02 < BlueMatt> or maybe that was when I tried to update something that wasnt even supported anymore and launchpad wouldnt build for it
08:02 < BlueMatt> a long time ago...I'd really hope no one is anymore, but you never know
08:02 < BlueMatt> and technically it still gets security updates
08:02 < BlueMatt> though I kinda doubt canonical gives much of a shit about it anymore
08:02 < Lightsword> for another year maybe
08:03 < BlueMatt> yea, 2017-04-26
08:03 < BlueMatt> not even a year
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08:17 < btcdrak> BlueMatt: may be worth dropping support for 12.04 soon. People shouldnt be running bitcoind on EOL operating systems.
08:18 < BlueMatt> btcdrak: see above, its not EOL until 2017-04
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08:54 < BlueMatt> heh, so it looks like boost-1.48 can be compiled in c++11 mode: https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/6198
08:55 < BlueMatt> and 12.04 only ships 1.48
08:55 < sipa> can or can't?
08:55 < BlueMatt> cant
08:55 < sipa> maybe it's better to replace it with a dummy package...
08:56 < BlueMatt> yea, thats kinda where I'm leaning now
08:56 < sipa> can't you just delete support for precise?
08:56 < BlueMatt> I can delete the existing package
08:56 < BlueMatt> so no new installs can happen
08:56 < sipa> right, but then people just remain stuck on 0.12.1
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08:56 < BlueMatt> yea
08:56 < sipa> i see
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09:01 < BlueMatt> I mean I can literally replace with an empty package
09:02 < BlueMatt> I'm gonna do that for now
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09:27 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, wonder if it would be better to just use .deb’s instead of ppa’s so that gitian builds can be used
09:27 < Lightsword> .deb’s with a custom repo
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09:36 < Algorithmer> Hi guys
09:36 < Algorithmer> Can someone help me with block.io api?
09:37 < achow101> Algorithmer: not here. This is for bitcoin core development.
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09:37 < Algorithmer> Ok sorry
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09:51 < GitHub78> [bitcoin] jl2012 opened pull request #8667: Fix SIGHASH_SINGLE bug in test_framework SignatureHash (master...patch-16) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8667
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12:33 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: yea, I've generally wanted to move to a model where the packages are install-once and just contain the gitian verifier
12:33 < BlueMatt> lightningbot: and then they decide to update when they see new gitian-signed updates
12:33 < lightningbot> BlueMatt: Error: "and" is not a valid command.
12:33 < BlueMatt> arg
12:34 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: but I've never gotten around to doing it....would love for someone to do so
12:34 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, well with a custom repo I think it would just use the same signature scheme as normal packages
12:34 < BlueMatt> yes, that would also probably be a step up from the launchpad-controlled keys that are used now
12:34 < Lightsword> yeah, and should be fairly simple
12:35 < BlueMatt> ehh, I mean then we have to secure a hosted server
12:35 < BlueMatt> or.../I/ have to
12:35 < Lightsword> bitcoincore.org or bitcoin.org?
12:35 < BlueMatt> much eaiser to have an install-once gitian verifier
12:35 < BlueMatt> bitcoin.org maybe, but I'd prefer to not put it there
12:35 < BlueMatt> bitcoincore.org has deliberately never hosted bins
12:35 < BlueMatt> (for this reason)
12:35 < gmaxwell> it is _not_ acceptable to have autoupdates. Install once should be fine, but the users should trigger the update. (It could notify and such too)
12:35 < kanzure> are the launchpad builds signed by anything other than launchpad?
12:35 < Lightsword> they would still be signed…just like normal ubuntu packages
12:36 < Lightsword> gmaxwell, it wouldn’t be any different from ppa
12:36 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yesyes, by gitian-verifier I mean a notification of update and install through gitian verification
12:36 < BlueMatt> kanzure: no
12:36 < gmaxwell> BlueMatt: great.
12:36 < BlueMatt> kanzure: the upload from me to launchpad is pgp-signed (ie the source files are), but launchpad just takes those and builds the bins and signs with keys it controls
12:37 < BlueMatt> kanzure: its really quite a shitty model
12:37 < BlueMatt> but, afaiu, they are built on a similar set of boxes as the actual ubuntu builds, so....
12:37 < gmaxwell> Lightsword: the difference is that if bluematt wants to be kidnapped by having the ability to trigger automatic updates or court ordered, thats his own problem. it's not one that should be extended to other contributors to the system.
12:37 < Lightsword> is it possible to have multiple signers for normal package managers?
12:38 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: only via the multisig rsa stuff, I'd presume
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12:39 < Lightsword> gmaxwell, do you consider apt-get update && apt-get upgrade to be an automatic update?
12:40 < Lightsword> ie using signed apt repository system
12:40 < gmaxwell> I consider that not my problem.
12:40 < BlueMatt> luckily right now its probably 10x easier to make launchpad push a new build than convince me to :p
12:42 < Lightsword> wonder how easy it would be to do an apt repository using the gitan sigs as multisig
12:43 < BlueMatt> afaiu the multisig-rsa stuff requires collaborative setup
12:43 < BlueMatt> but I havent heard anything about it in like 5/10 years, maybe it didnt even work
12:43 < gmaxwell> it works fine.
12:43 < BlueMatt> seems like something gmaxwell would remember
12:43 < BlueMatt> heh, there we go :p
12:44 < gmaxwell> worse than collaborative setup, the straight forward construction requires a trusted dealer.
12:44 < gmaxwell> but it's one time trust at least, assuming the dealer doesn't retain the key.
12:44 < BlueMatt> iirc someone had a multiuser setup for it?
12:44 < kanzure> this would be to avoid distributing a program to verify individual separate gitian signatures?
12:45 < gmaxwell> there is some MPC approach to it, but it's seriously more complex.
12:45 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: sure, ofc....
12:45 < gmaxwell> kanzure: it's whats required to make the apple and msft signing threshold secure.
12:45 < BlueMatt> kanzure: yes, the idea is that you would do multisig-rsa where the verifier is simple rsa
12:45 < Lightsword> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CreateAuthenticatedRepository
12:46 < BlueMatt> kanzure: that way you can make android/apt/yum/apple/etc/etc validate your multisig in their normal package validation routines
12:46 < kanzure> yes well it would be nice to use the default package validation infrastructure i guess, although i don't know how to balance that with discouraging people to use PPAs in the first place.
12:47 < Lightsword> kanzure, well custom authenticated repo is better than ppa at least
12:48 < kanzure> er, this seems sort of backwards; the reason why the ppa is being used at all with launchpad builds is because -- well nevermind i shouldn't point this out i guess.
12:48 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: it does require I maintain (a) a secure build server, (b) a secure server to serve off of (kinda, I guess really just a secure way to serve the pgp key which signs the packages), and (c) get kidnapped :p
12:48 < kanzure> if you are going to be doing a secure build server then you might as well use the gitian builds in the first place
12:48 < BlueMatt> yup
12:49 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, well if you can do it with multisig-rsa with gitian main thing is just serving the initial pgp key securely
12:49 < kanzure> but the reason why this is not done is not because of the difficulty of doing gitian things, Lightsword
12:50 < Lightsword> yeah, I know autoupdates are to be avoided…but this isn’t any worse than the ppa is IMO
12:50 < kanzure> no i mean, the ppa is pretty awful, i think people with their heads on straight are correctly avoiding it
12:51 < BlueMatt> kanzure: people with their heads on straight are correctly avoiding ubuntu for their bitcoin node hosting, I'd think
12:51 < BlueMatt> kanzure: but the number of people who even validate gitian sigs is probably +/- 0
12:51 < kanzure> let's not get too optimistic
12:51  * sipa hides in a corner
12:51 < kanzure> :)
12:51 < Lightsword> uh, a lot of pool servers use ubuntu
12:51 < BlueMatt> the number of people building themselves is like....non-0
12:51 < BlueMatt> but the folks who might otherwise validate gitian sigs probably build themselves
12:52 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: I'd assume they dont use the ppa, though?
12:52 < kanzure> do not ask questions you don't want the answer to
12:52 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: if the answer is that they do, please dont respond
12:52 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, I did early on but haven’t for a while
12:52 < BlueMatt> kanzure: yea, fair point
12:53 < Lightsword> a lot of people do seem to be using the ppa though
12:53 < Lightsword> since it’s in a lot of guides
12:53 < BlueMatt> yes, this is true
12:54 < BlueMatt> well yea, lots of folks use it since its easy to install, reasonable to keep up-to-date, etc
12:54 < CocoBTC> I don't think many people understands the risk
12:54 < CocoBTC> s
12:54 < BlueMatt> anyway, I'll get a secure build server and switch it to not-launchpad-hosted when someone gets a reasonable server which we all feel comfortable hosting binaries on :p
12:56 < Lightsword> BlueMatt, I can host one if you want for the signed binaries, would probably not want to be hosting the pgp key though myself :P
12:56 < BlueMatt> yea, thought so :p
12:57 < Lightsword> not sure how best to distribute that though
12:57 < BlueMatt> one of these days I'll fly somewhere decent and buy a rack with some crazy tempest protection and explosives inside and host shit there
12:57 < BlueMatt> one of these days........
12:57 < Lightsword> I mean, I’m pretty sure I can run a secure server…just by limiting attack surface by only running nginx and ssh key based auth and nothing else
12:58 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: right up until someone figures out where its hosted :P
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12:58 < Lightsword> well…I usually put my stuff behind cloudflare to prevent that…
12:58 < BlueMatt> remember: the value of compromising this would be more than what the fbi paid cmu to compromise tor to locate dark net market sites
12:59 < BlueMatt> also, FUCK CMU
12:59 < sipa> there's a swiss company that houses server inside a bunker inside a mountain
12:59 < Lightsword> yeah, this is really just an initial key distribution problem though
12:59 < Lightsword> could just stick it on bitcoin.org
12:59 < BlueMatt> sipa: there are many of those....thats fine right up until you dont want the owner of the mountain to have access
12:59 < sipa> BlueMatt: details
12:59 < BlueMatt> heh
12:59 < sipa> :p
13:00 < Lightsword> could maybe just put the key on github…
13:00 < BlueMatt> *stab*
13:00 < Lightsword> and a few other places
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13:00 < BlueMatt> but, yea, the key distribution is more of a problem, I suppose
13:00 < kanzure> i thought "open access policies" were good?
13:00 < kanzure> maybe that's something else.
13:00 < jeremyrubin> buys old mine shaft, quick-crete, and 100 m ethernet cable
13:00 < BlueMatt> but I dont particularly want to have /the/ key that can sign for lots of updated bitcoin-qt clients
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13:01 < Lightsword> yeah..multisig-rsa would be nice...
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13:01 < BlueMatt> jeremyrubin: I prefer old oil shafts....1 mile down? no problem!
13:01 < Lightsword> for signing the builds….wonder if a m of n scheme is possible
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13:02 < Lightsword> with authenticated repository infrastructure
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13:10 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: CyrusV, CocoBTC, da2ce7, goregrind, echonaut, mturquette, dermoth, nsh, pmienk, wallet42,  (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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13:26 < BlueMatt> sipa: ping?
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13:33 < BlueMatt> https://twitter.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/772754012739399681
13:33 < BlueMatt> Info: there will be a little „hackathlon“ event after the #scalingbitcoin conference in Milan. Mo/Tue, 10th-11th October. More infos to come
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13:33 < BlueMatt> ie another core hackathon after scaling bitcoin: milan, monday and tuesday
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13:35 < BlueMatt> general fyi: book your accomodation to wed, if you feel like sticking around to do in-person Bitcoin Core code review/hacking just like the last few times
13:39 < Lightsword> is there any actual usable code for multisig rsa?
13:39 < phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, just replace the ppa thing with something that downloads that static binaries to $HOME
13:39 < phantomcircuit> (yes yes stabs face)
13:39 < BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, with gitian verification
13:39 < BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: you jest, but I'd actually like to do something like that
13:39 < BlueMatt> though probably not $HOME
13:40 < BlueMatt> Lightsword: some folks said they had code for it
13:40 < BlueMatt> maybe gmaxwell 
13:41 < Lightsword> could always just download to /usr/bin :P
13:41 < BlueMatt> people might hate you more for that
14:01 < BlueMatt> lol, in writing the compact block version negotiation spec:
14:01 < BlueMatt> "As a node must send all sendcmpct messages which contain a novel version announcement before any other compact block-related messages, it is possible to determine which version of compact blocks will be used for each object received. It is, however, not possible to know which version will be used to encode the response to a request for a compact block object before any MSG_CMPCT_BLOCK-containing inv, cmpctblock, getblocktxn, or 
14:01 < BlueMatt> blocktxn messages have been exchanged."
14:01 < BlueMatt> that seems...irritating
14:02 < BlueMatt> actually, add ping to that list :)
14:02  * BlueMatt prepares for someone to get very upset now
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14:15 < BlueMatt> sipa: nvm, I just posted text for compact block version negotiation ont he pr...I think its not crazy, but it is awkward (eg the above text)
14:15 < BlueMatt> it might require slight implementation tweaks, though nothing major, I think
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16:42 < BlueMatt> copied from -wizards:
16:42 < BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> is there any interest in a fibre/propagation talk by me in milan?
16:42 < BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> frankly I find fibre to be somewhat self-explanitory and could likely only talk for about 3 minutes at a really technical level about it
16:42 < BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> but this may be some form of the the-thing-i-work-on-of-course-seems-self-explanitory-because-i-work-on-it effect
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