--- Day changed Mon Nov 14 2016 00:09 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:11 < jonasschnelli> bench gives me something like: SHA256,36,0.030114054679871,0.032101750373840,0.031019667784373 00:12 < jonasschnelli> Are the time values in ms? 00:12 < jonasschnelli> And is the time value * count or per a single execution? 00:14 < gmaxwell> microseconds, IIRC. and not per count, count is already divided out. 00:14 <@wumpus> count is divided out otherwise it'd be entirely pointless :) I don't know the unit hough 00:15 <@wumpus> the header row should really have unit indicators [ms] [s] or such 00:16 <@wumpus> appears to be seconds, looking at the code 00:17 < gmaxwell> indeed. 00:17 < gmaxwell> ... 30 microseconds is absurdly slow for sha256 unless that is testing someting non-obvious. 00:18 <@wumpus> doesn't it depend on how much data it is hashing per run? 00:18 < gmaxwell> er 30 milliseconds. 00:18 < gmaxwell> Yes, if it's a lot of data, indeed. 00:18 <@wumpus> and yes, hashing benchmarks are best expressed in MB/s or such 00:19 <@wumpus> would make sense at some point to split the bench into multiple tables, with one for hashing and CRCing algos 00:20 < gmaxwell> sometimes we care about the time to hash a minimum size piece of data: thats the sigcache case, the hashes inside the hashtree, etc. 00:20 < jonasschnelli> Then am I correct when I say for the values above it takes in avg 30ns per hash (need to lookup how mach data being hash)? 00:20 <@wumpus> right, probably there should be a specific benchmark for that 00:21 < jonasschnelli> (what I'm trying to do is to compare it against ChaCha20Poly1305AEAD per byte at the end) 00:21 <@wumpus> well in that case you should absolutely compare MB/s not anything else 00:21 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: no, it's seconds, and it's saying it takes 31 milliseconds for however much it's hashing (presumably a lot or something is broken) 00:21 < jonasschnelli> BUFFER_SIZE = 1000*1000; (for the hash test) 00:22 < jonasschnelli> 31 milliseconds per 1MB, right? 00:22 <@wumpus> e.g. something like I did here https://github.com/laanwj/crcbench 00:23 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: thanks.. 00:23 <@wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes 00:24 <@wumpus> 1000*1000/0.031019667784373 -> 32,237,611 bytes per second 00:26 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@82.201.92.138] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:26 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: sounds like it, yes. which is only 32.2 MB/s which sounds quite slow. 00:26 < jonasschnelli> -O0 00:26 < gmaxwell> openssl speed sha256 on my sluggish laptop says 96,185,000 bytes/s. 00:26 < gmaxwell> oh okay. 00:27 < gmaxwell> well you -O0 is "make bencmarks worthless" :P 00:27 < jonasschnelli> It's not the numbers i want to compare, just for understanding 00:27 <@wumpus> why would you compare benchmarks with O0?! 00:27 < gmaxwell> s/you// :) 00:27 < jonasschnelli> I just don't wanted to configure/compile again. :-) 00:27 < jonasschnelli> Will to the benchmark on a different machine... and fix the clock, etc. 00:28 < jonasschnelli> I guess benchmark on a Mac laptop with tons of applications open doesn't really make sense. 00:28 < gmaxwell> Just don't use the results for _anything_ O0 radically changes the performance profile of different code. 00:28 < jonasschnelli> Yes. I learned that from my IBD benchmarks. :) 00:32 < gmaxwell> on the same sluggish laptop mentioned above our bench returns 0.02038276 which is about 49.06 milillion bytes/sec. So I suppose thats about what I'd expect vs OpenSSL given that we know our sha256 is slower than the faster ones using SSE2. 00:41 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:48 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51 < jonasschnelli> SHA -O3 on Skylark: SHA256,256,0.002107024192810,0.004232339560986,0.004217050969601 00:51 < jonasschnelli> Same setup, ChaCha20Poly1305@openssh (own draft implementation): 0.00278858 00:52 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:53 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53 < gmaxwell> hm. thats not that impressive! 00:53 < jonasschnelli> Well.. faster then I have expected. 00:53 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:53 < gmaxwell> run "openssl speed sha256" on the same hardware. 00:54 * jonasschnelli doing... 00:54 < jonasschnelli> sha256 64116.34k 140875.75k 245123.77k 296262.31k 320731.87k 00:55 < jonasschnelli> I took the ChaCha20Poly1305 from openssh: https://github.com/jonasschnelli/chacha20poly1305 00:56 < gmaxwell> okay, bitcoin's sha256 is 237.1 million bytes per second, openssl is 320.7 million bytes per second.. and the chacha is 358.6 million bytes per second. (openssl at slight disadvantage due to 8k vs 1m size, but it doesn't matter much) 00:57 < gmaxwell> okay, not so bad, encrypt+auth, about 11% faster than highly optimized sha256 alone for large blocks. IIRC the chacha/poly will have a bigger advantage for smaller messages. 00:57 < jonasschnelli> Yes. Thats true. 00:57 < gmaxwell> and better, it should wipe the floor with sha256 on arm. 00:58 < jonasschnelli> Also, i'm not sure about the constant time properties of chacha20 here: https://github.com/jonasschnelli/chacha20poly1305/blob/master/chacha.c 01:03 < gmaxwell> quick glance through shows all that to be constant time (other than the number of bytes going into it, of course) ... and the position counter carry. (odd that they did that, but it's just a counter) 01:05 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:06 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I guess the implementation above is more or less from DJB itself. 01:08 < jonasschnelli> not sure if the openssh guys did modificate it, though 01:08 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:09 < gmaxwell> it looks fine to me. 01:11 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:14 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:14 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-176-21.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:15 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:22 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:27 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:33 -!- Ginnarr [~Ginnarr@unaffiliated/ginnarr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:34 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 01:36 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.203] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:39 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.203] has quit [Client Quit] 01:42 -!- arinaga [~goyo@188.red-2-138-112.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@207pc74.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:52 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@207pc74.sshunet.nl] has quit [Changing host] 01:52 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #9156: Add compile and link options echo to configure (master...2016/11/configure) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9156 03:33 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:34 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:03 -!- JackH [~laptop@79.73.184.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06 -!- JackH [~laptop@79-73-184-38.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:07 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:30 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:32 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:35 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:02 -!- takashi [~takashi@ab169245.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07 -!- jtimon [~quassel@186.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:15 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:18 -!- kadoban [~mud@unaffiliated/kadoban] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:31 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:36 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:03 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:25 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:25 -!- aalex_ [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:30 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:32 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:38 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:44 -!- aalex_ [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by beer] 06:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:51 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Client Quit] 06:54 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:14 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3BDB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:14 -!- cryptapus_afk [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has quit [Quit: conversation terminated!] 07:21 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:33 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:36 -!- Lauda [~quassel@unaffiliated/lauda] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:37 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:39 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:41 -!- murchandamus [~murchghos@ghostdub.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:43 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3BDB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44 -!- Micha|iPhone [~michagogo@wikia/Michagogo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:44 -!- Micha|iPhone [~michagogo@wikia/Michagogo] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 07:51 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:03 -!- Lauda [~quassel@unaffiliated/lauda] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:08 -!- achow101_ [~achow101@ec2-50-19-184-58.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:13 -!- cryptapus_ [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:16 -!- cryptapus_ [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has quit [Client Quit] 08:16 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:19 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:20 -!- achow101_ is now known as achow101 08:20 -!- achow101 [~achow101@ec2-50-19-184-58.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:20 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:36 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:36 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb1+trusty0 - http://znc.in] 08:38 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:40 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:00 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@82.201.92.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-25-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:37 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:37 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:39 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:41 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Leviathn opened pull request #9158: Removal of "free transaction" logic from codebase (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9158 10:07 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@bobbin.q-ag.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:07 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@bobbin.q-ag.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:07 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@bobbin.q-ag.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Leviathn closed pull request #9158: Removal of "free transaction" logic from codebase (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9158 10:22 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.210.232] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.210.232] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35 < sdaftuar> sipa: are you planning to PR the rest of your shared-ptr-all-the-things branch soon? 10:37 < sdaftuar> i have a change to the way we manage the mempool during reorgs, which i think would make sense to rebase on to your branch, wasn't sure if i should use #9125 or some later commit in your branch 10:37 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9125 | Make CBlock a vector of shared_ptr of CTransactions by sipa · Pull Request #9125 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 10:38 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:43 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:43 < sipa> sdaftuar: several parts of that branch are included in #8580 now 10:43 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8580 | Make CTransaction actually immutable by sipa · Pull Request #8580 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 10:44 < sipa> there is one more commit that makes ATMT take a shared_ptr 10:46 < sdaftuar> yeah i was thinking i'd rebase on that one, as that'll help during processing of reorg'ed out transactions as well 10:46 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49 < sipa> i could just push the one remaining patch into 8580, but it's already quite big 10:50 < sdaftuar> no problem, i can be patient (and help review!) 10:51 < sipa> i'll run a benchmark for those PRs soon 11:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #9159: [qa] Wait for specific block announcement in p2p-compactblocks (master...cmpct-announce-wait) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9159 11:02 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:03 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #9160: [trivial] Fix hungarian variable name (master...hungarian) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9160 11:26 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28 -!- MarcoFalke [~marco@host10-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:28 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/924745dd6f5f...b42291334651 11:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fd6bb70 Russell Yanofsky: [qa] Improve sync_blocks error messages. 11:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 05e57cc Russell Yanofsky: [qa] Fix sync_blocks timeout argument... 11:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7943b13 Russell Yanofsky: [qa] Avoid 2 list comprehensions in sync_blocks 11:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #9136: sync_blocks cleanup (master...sync-clean) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9136 11:31 -!- eenoch [~eenoch@unaffiliated/eenoch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wasi 11:39 -!- Netsplit over, joins: wasi 11:39 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:44 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:46 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:47 -!- eenoch [~eenoch@unaffiliated/eenoch] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:13 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:17 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26 < morcos> What is the assumption for how the wallet supports txs for which some of the inputs are yours and some aren't? 12:26 < morcos> I'm asking in context of the bumpfee command. 12:27 < morcos> In particular is there a way to identify such wallet txs? 12:40 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:40 < morcos> As a crutch instead of properly supporting such txs, would people accept a wallet function IsAllFromMe(filter), that let you know if all of the inputs were from you? so you'd know if your calculation of Debits was correct 12:41 < morcos> I'd use this in bumpfee to just do nothing if not all the inputs were from you, and in listtransactions and gettransaction to not output an erroneous fee calculation 12:45 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:55 < Victorsueca> what about this: 12:55 < Victorsueca> instead of using the IsMine logic, when the bumpfee command is issued then check whether the needed private keys are available 12:58 < Victorsueca> if not available then assume the transaction was not involve the user in a way that allows him to use bumpfee 12:58 < Victorsueca> does* 12:59 < Victorsueca> sounds less resource-consuming than checking the IsMine logic 13:03 < morcos> The problem is even if you have all the keys to sign the tx, if not all the inputs are you, you can't actually calculate the proper fee. 13:04 < morcos> This is why listtransactions and gettransaction return erroneous results 13:41 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:46 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:07 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 14:42 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:45 -!- MarcoFalke [~marco@host10-2.natpool.mwn.de] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 14:45 < Victorsueca> what would be the appropriate way to suggest a new GUI feature? 14:46 -!- cryptapus is now known as cryptapus_afk 14:47 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:56 -!- go1111111 [~go1111111@104.200.154.82] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:10 -!- shinyg [7caa8af7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.170.138.247] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:36 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:37 -!- dcousens [~anon@c110-22-219-15.sunsh4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:43 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:48 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:52 < shinyg> Hi people, I was after a little assistance from those who know more about Bitcoin Core and those who support Wikipedia. 15:53 < shinyg> I have recently expanded the Wikipedia article for Bitcoin Core by a factor of 10. Could someone spend just a few minutes to see if there are any major ommission or errors? 15:54 < shinyg> I have almost no programming skills so I ask here because I imagine there are a few experts around, apologies if this is too off-topic 15:56 < achow101> shinyg: blockstream does not fund Bitcoin Core development at all. There are developers who work on Bitcoin Core who also have jobs at Blockstream. The people who actually partially fund development are the MIT DCI who actually pay some people to work on Core (wladimir, cory) 15:57 < shinyg> got it 15:58 -!- tulip [uid192128@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rgrxvdcebftpjvmo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:58 < achow101> also, IIRC bitcoin.org and the bitcoin foundation are no longer related 16:08 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25 -!- trippysa1mon [~trippy@cyberdynesys.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:44 -!- trippysalmon [~trippy@cyberdynesys.org] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:45 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:46 < sipa> achow101: i believe they never have been 16:49 < achow101> well they're listed here: https://bitcoin.org/en/about-us#sponsorship 16:49 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:57 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@203.223.208.179] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:59 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:08 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@203.223.208.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:13 < shinyg> so was there a specific reason why new releases stopped coming from bitcoin.org? 17:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13 < sipa> they're still published there 17:14 < sipa> but bitcoin core has its own project website now 17:14 < achow101> they're trying to separate bitcoin core from bitcoin.org as bitcoin.org is for bitcoin in general whilst bitcoin core is a specific project 17:15 < shinyg> makes sense, how about is Bitcoin Core a Solution stack or software as some describe it/ 17:16 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@124.217.188.217] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:17 < shinyg> Maybe bitcoin is a software stack but Core is just software 17:20 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@124.217.188.217] has quit [Client Quit] 17:28 < Squidicuz> sipa, cool. I take it that site is bitcoincore.org, right? 17:28 < achow101> Squidicuz: yes, bitcoincore.org is Bitcoin Core's site 17:29 < Squidicuz> just double checking. ty 17:29 < Squidicuz> :) 17:29 < tulip> shinyg: with tools like gitian there's no real need for a canonical binary source. 17:31 < Squidicuz> ...I'm a little late 17:43 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@124.217.188.82] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:43 < moli> sipa, hi, could you update your graph? 17:45 < sipa> which? 17:45 < achow101> bip9 bits graph 17:45 < sipa> oh, will do 17:45 < sipa> before the 18th 17:46 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:46 < moli> ah still too early? ok, thanks, sipa :) 17:46 < sipa> yes, first retarget after the 15th midnight utc 17:46 < achow101> miners can signal now, right? just that it won't matter because the retarget period is almsot over 17:46 < btcdrak> at this rate of acceleration it might just at the end of 17th... 17:46 < sipa> them signalling right now will trigger the unknown softfork warning 17:47 < achow101> oh, that's interesting 17:47 < btcdrak> sipa: would those trigger while in the defined state? 17:48 < btcdrak> oh nvm, ofc it will trigger, derp 17:48 -!- DigiByteDev_ [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:48 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@124.217.188.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48 < achow101> why would it trigger? 17:48 -!- DigiByteDev_ is now known as DigiByteDev 17:50 < achow101> oh, is it because it is still in the defined state, not started? 17:50 < sipa> indeed 17:50 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:51 < sipa> so it would be seen as signalling for an unrelated fork 17:52 < sipa> which the current software does not know about 17:52 < achow101> why are the two graphs on the segwit adoption page on opposite ends of the page? also, chrome is super not liking that sipa's website doesn't have https for those graphs 17:52 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnyatslgnrlwidzc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:54 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-25-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:00 -!- DigiByteDev_ [~JT2@69.167.6.89] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:00 -!- DigiByteDev_ [~JT2@69.167.6.89] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07 < shinyg> thanks for the replies sipa and wiki contribs achow 18:07 -!- shinyg [7caa8af7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.170.138.247] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:20 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:24 -!- blkdb [~blkdb@2a01:4f8:140:1407::2] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:24 -!- blkdb [~blkdb@2a01:4f8:140:1407::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:33 -!- Victor_sueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:35 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:51 * jtimon pushed jtimon/0.13-blocksign-latest on top of jtimon/0.13-blocksign on top of jtimon/0.13-new-testchain on top of jtimon/0.13-chainparams-factory eb6c595e on top of origin/master 924745dd 18:51 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:52 -!- crudel [crudel@gateway/shell/fnordserver.eu/x-qegvgzsnjgmsvvpn] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:52 < achow101> wut 19:00 -!- abpa [~abpa@107-131-125-191.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:08 < phantomcircuit> #8831 19:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8831 | Replace CWalletDB::ReadKeyValue with CWallet::LoadKeyValue by pstratem · Pull Request #8831 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 19:08 < phantomcircuit> please 19:08 < phantomcircuit> someone 19:08 < phantomcircuit> review 19:09 < phantomcircuit> please 19:14 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:21 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 19:29 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:35 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:43 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:48 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:51 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:52 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:53 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:57 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:07 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:10 -!- tulip [uid192128@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rgrxvdcebftpjvmo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:14 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:18 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chjkrthevmuprlzz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:21 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:23 -!- fengling [~fengling@223.223.187.136] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:52 -!- baldur [~baldur@pool-100-2-154-133.nycmny.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 20:56 -!- baldur [~baldur@pool-100-2-154-133.nycmny.btas.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:13 -!- tulip [uid192128@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knohqbxdtvrlxzoj] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:05 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:20 < gmaxwell> looks like some folks are signaling segwit prematurely. 22:21 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:36 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 22:37 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:43 -!- jtimon [~quassel@186.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45 -!- kadoban [~mud@unaffiliated/kadoban] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:52 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:59 < midnightmagic> :-o 23:00 < gmaxwell> Not harmful, but it's more evidence for my concern that version has been burned for consensus critical use. 23:00 < gmaxwell> I blame Luke. :P 23:02 < luke-jr> ☹ 23:03 * luke-jr doesn't deny being at fault in part. 23:05 < gmaxwell> I think the big interface error is that mining exposes gnarly consensus internals to people who are not primarily interested in them but instead have simpler (though critical) goals like: Get mining working fast and reliably. 23:06 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joloimvalxcuxrja] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:06 < gmaxwell> E.g. it's not a good seperation of concerns. I don't have any doubt that any of the pool ops couldn't be great consensus plumbers if they wanted to be, but when they're hacking on pool software that isn't what they're trying to do. 23:06 < luke-jr> yes, in hindsight it may have been better to do a more stratum-like getwork replacement in bitcoind (but that had its own share of problems) 23:06 < luke-jr> by separation of this, we did gain a few things: miners can upgrade easier now than with 0.3+tons of patching 23:06 < gmaxwell> We could be much worse off for sure. 23:07 < luke-jr> I tried to make it simpler by having a GBT client library (libblkmaker), but it seems it isn't in any real use outside of BFGMiner 23:10 < gmaxwell> One of the lessons (which I already knew from before) is that having a 'bad' interface, then a 'make it friendly' layer often doesn't work. People will either never find the friendlyness layer, or not use it because your own test cases don't (which they look at to understand the interface), will encounter some limitation in it and go raw, or otherwise insist on doing their own for some better o 23:10 < gmaxwell> r worse reason. 23:12 < gmaxwell> I explirenced this with libvorbis, which had a vorbisfile API which was 100x easier to use right than the raw interface, included with the same library... and mostly used, but still bypassed often enough to cause frequent bogus support issues that would have been avoided by using vorbisfile. ... and especially with liboggz which is a high level interface to many ogg embedded formats and ogg han 23:12 < gmaxwell> dling which handles most of the gnarly stuff, ... and which virtually no one uses... instead implementing the same functionality themselves, usually incorrectly. 23:13 < luke-jr> :/ 23:13 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 23:14 < jl2012> which block is signalling segwit? 23:14 < gmaxwell> Then Opus (which has a much more carefully contstructed raw API) didn't ship with a opusfile (analog of the vorbisfile high level API), and relative usage of opusfile is probably 100x lower than vorbisfile. Shipping it with it as a single package makes a big difference. 23:14 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:15 < gmaxwell> jl2012: 438958 and 438914 I think. 23:16 < jl2012> oh, slush 23:17 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: in any case, the general advice I think we should follow is whe should always imagine the goals of the person using an API, and them assume that they will only correctly handle any non-trivial steps that were obvious from a statement of their goals. 23:18 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19 < gmaxwell> Like an API for signing should not ask the signer to provide a nonce that must obey some byzantine set of security requirements. Their goal was signing, not generating random numbers. If it's easy to get it working without getting it right, it's a cointoss if they'll get it right or not. (I don't mean this in a superior or condecending way-- it's human nature to get tunnel vision around your o 23:19 < gmaxwell> wn goals). 23:21 < gmaxwell> plus, expecting people to worry about details that aren't related to their goals is a failure to respect their time. 23:23 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:25 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30 -!- tulip [uid192128@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knohqbxdtvrlxzoj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:36 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:42 -!- ratoder [~ratoder@static.111.19.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev