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06:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] azuchi opened pull request #11357: Fix description of maximumCount (master...fix-0.15.0-release-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11357
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09:19 < BashCo> 0.15 is crashing here on Mac OS 10.9.5 due to segmentation fault. When I use disablewallet=1 it comes up fine. Is this a known issue?
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09:36 < jl2012> BashCo: try removing bitcoin.conf. Should be fine
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09:38 < jl2012> should be related to #11332 . See the transcript of last meeting
09:38 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11332 | Fix possible crash with invalid nCustomFeeRadio in QSettings (achow101, TheBlueMatt) by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #11332 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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09:44 < achow101> BashCo: can you pastebin the contents of ~/Library/Preferences/bitcoin-qt.plist (or something like that I think)
09:45 < achow101> BashCo: then start with -resetguisettings
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09:47 < luke-jr> jl2012: nCustomFeeRadio isn't in bitcoin.conf …
09:47 < BashCo> removing the bitcoin.conf was the first thing I tried but no luck. my mac os 10.12 system didn't have any issues at all. It's still syncing, then I'll try the older system again. Bet -resetguisettings will fix it. 
09:47 < achow101> BashCo: please provide the contents of the file I specified. It has the qsettings info and I want to make sure that that is actually the problem
09:48 < luke-jr> BashCo: try Knots
09:48 < luke-jr> also what achow101 said
09:48 < jl2012> luke-jr: oh, I rarely use the gui. It has another conf?
09:49 < luke-jr> jl2012: yes, different on every OS
09:49 < achow101> jl2012: not another conf, it's the qt settings storage
09:49 < luke-jr> jl2012: on Windows, it's in the registry; on Linux, another ini file somewhere; on Mac, who knows XD
09:49 < achow101> luke-jr: supposedly on mac it is a plist file at around the location I specified earlier
09:50 < achow101> (I actually have no idea, that's just what google said)
09:50  * luke-jr plugs #11082 which can be step 1 to unifying it
09:50 < esotericnonsense> on linux it lives in .config/Bitcoin/Bitcoin-Qt.conf for me
09:50 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11082 | Add new bitcoin_rw.conf file that is used for settings modified by this software itself by luke-jr · Pull Request #11082 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:50 < esotericnonsense> (regardless of datadir settings)
09:51 < achow101> luke-jr: I don't think that would help since this is a qt specific thing
09:51 < achow101> unless you mean that we should scrap qsettings altogether and do our own settings stuff
09:51 < luke-jr> achow101: it's a possibility
09:52 < luke-jr> haven't given much thought to whether actually-GUI-specific options should be moved there
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10:07 < BashCo> achow101: -resetguisettings worked. Unfortunately I did that before looking for the plist file. :(  I found the file though, called `org.bitcoin.Bitcoin-Qt.plist`. 
10:11 < BashCo> achow101: here's the plist file contents. I probably botched it by using resetguisettings first. https://pastebin.com/Avi6c20Z
10:16 < achow101> BashCo: yeah, having the file after doing resetguisettings is not particularly helpful
10:16 < achow101> but at least we know where the file on osx is
10:16 < BashCo> my bad. sorry about that. 
10:18 < BashCo> achow101: would the crash log be helpful?
10:18 < achow101> BashCo: yes
10:19 < achow101> we've already figured out the most probably cause, so this is only to confirm that it's the same problem
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10:20 < BashCo> sent via DM.
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13:21 < esotericnonsense> so i'm investigating #11315 Prune undermines the dbcache
13:21 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11315 | Prune undermines the dbcache. · Issue #11315 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
13:21 < esotericnonsense> just looking at the code without testing; i don't believe that it's an issue with the prune size
13:22 < esotericnonsense> fDoFullFlush = (mode == FLUSH_STATE_ALWAYS) || fCacheLarge || fCacheCritical || fPeriodicFlush || fFlushForPrune;
13:25 < esotericnonsense> unless i'm misinterpreting it seems to imply that any prune event will cause a flush, unless flush just means write in this context?
13:27 < esotericnonsense> it seems to me that you need to write (because otherwise in the case of an unclean shutdown, you've potentially deleted the blocks you would need to recover) but you don't need to drop the cache entirely
13:28 < esotericnonsense> ah, perhaps there's only a flush and no way to simply write :)
13:32 < sipa>  yes, there is 
13:32 < sipa> *yes, there is no simple write
13:33 < sipa> every write to the chainstate requires first writing changes to the block index, to avoid having a chainstate that contains results of blocks that aren't known anymore after restart
13:35 < esotericnonsense> i think i understand gmax's comment now, you'd let it increase to say prunesize+buffer+dbcache and then prune down (so the interval between prunes is dbcache+buffer rather than buffer)
13:35 < esotericnonsense> that seems kind of hacky though, it's more like adding a range to prune so that it doesn't go off too often
13:36 < sipa> right
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13:46 < esotericnonsense> a problem i can see with using dbcache is that if a user has an extremely high value set there could be unexpected results, would need to be documented
13:48 < esotericnonsense> e.g. prune=2000 dbcache=16000, now you can actually use 18GB prior to pruning, hm
13:57 < gmaxwell> esotericnonsense: yes, but we can document it, there are already interactions like that: e.g. the shutdown warning is moved up by the dbcache
13:58 < esotericnonsense> ah, hello. i was just writing a reply on the issue.
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13:59 < gmaxwell> IMO ultimately we will end up not having MB tunable pruning. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
13:59 < esotericnonsense> i was thinking that perhaps using a percentage of the prune as the buffer might work and not require an additional config flag
13:59 < gmaxwell> there shouldn't be an extra setting for sure. please no more options that users can't sensibly configure.
13:59 < esotericnonsense> right now the performance hit is the same regardless of whether you have prune=100000 or prune=1000 (once you get past the point at which it starts doing it)
14:01 < gmaxwell> The point I was trying to make in the issue, I think, is that setting prune shouldn't effectively override your dbcache setting.
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14:04 < esotericnonsense> it might be useful for me to get some hard numbers for how much sync time increases depending on the buffer size
14:04 < esotericnonsense> i recall it being 30% slower or more in my testing, but it wasn't very scientific, getting that down to 5% or something would be a pretty big win
14:05 < esotericnonsense> (and that was on SSD)
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14:05 < gmaxwell> esotericnonsense: oh jesus no. The difference between a maximum dbcache and default is something like an 8 hour sync vs a 3 hour one.
14:06 < esotericnonsense> yeah, i didn't let it run to the end before increasing the prune target :P
14:07 < esotericnonsense> (i basically did the manual version of this by increasing prune to 50G, then down to 5G, then back up, etc)
14:07 < gmaxwell> esotericnonsense: consider this, right now the chainstate on disk is 2.8gb  adding the dbcache to the interval on syncing with defaults would end up with you needing to have 4GB free to sync bitcoin instead of 3.5.
14:08 < esotericnonsense> gah     
14:08 < esotericnonsense> i'm forgetting that if it's in the cache it's not on disk
14:08 < esotericnonsense> heh     
14:08 < gmaxwell> potentially at least.
14:08 < esotericnonsense> well, during IBD and in cases where there hasn't been a lot of replacement
14:10 < esotericnonsense> the default dbcache would still result in a lot of prune events flushing it though. hm.
14:10 < esotericnonsense> oh wait it flushes anyway. duh
14:11 < esotericnonsense> okay, that makes sense, i'll play around with it.
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15:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] esotericnonsense opened pull request #11359: Add a pruning 'high water mark' to reduce the frequency of pruning events (master...2017-09-add-pruning-hwm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11359
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20:25 < esotericnonsense> wow, syncing on the same host is quick. 25% progress in 24 minutes.
20:25 < esotericnonsense> (unpruned)
20:26  * esotericnonsense wonders if the whole thing would be sub-100.
20:35 < sipa> it won't due to signature validation
20:35 < sipa> which is only done after the assumevalid points
20:36 < esotericnonsense> ah bugger yes.
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