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01:40 < GAit> wumpus: is the ARM assembly optimization the one enabled by --enable-experimental-asm or there's something ARM specific that I missed?
01:40 < sipa> GAit: the libsecp256k1 ARM assembly? i don't think so
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01:41 < GAit> I was just going on about a comment from wumpus above about considering enabling by default the ARM assembly opt and I was wondering which flag would do that manually today
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01:47 < Sentineo> GAit: ./configure --with-asm=arm --enable-experimental
01:47 < GAit> Sentineo: thanks
01:48 < Sentineo> yw     
01:49 < GAit> maybe it's just me but i find having both --enable-experimental-asm and having --with-asm=arm --enable-experimetal is a tiny bit confusing
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02:00 < meshcollider> Yeah GAit wumpus mentioned earlier today that some documentation is probably needed but he's not sure where the best place to put it is 
02:04 < sipa> GAit: "--with-asm=arm --enable-experimental" are libsecp256k1 configure options; the " --enable-experimental-asm" is a bitcoin core configure option
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02:05 < sipa> together it does look confusing, i agree
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02:52 < wumpus> --with-asm=arm enables the secp256k1 arm assembly, --enable-experimental-asm does nothing for ARM afaik
02:53 < wumpus> (it might in the future if someone adds support for the ARM crypto intrinsics to bitcoin)
02:54 < wumpus> it'd be nice to be able to run gitian on non-x86 platforms, doing at least one such build would add reassurance against intel ME antics
02:56 < sipa> syncing on my kdroid was painfully slow as it flushed every few blocks in order to prune
02:57 < sipa> by making it only prune whwn kver 2x the prune target i made it an order of magnitude faster, i think
02:57 < sipa> *odroid
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03:02 < Sentineo> I run an odroid as well, the arm optimisation did help it a lot
03:02 < Sentineo> but my node is not pruned
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03:11 < Provoostenator> sipa: I'll keep my Xiaomi A1 around in case someone want to get some measurements for more efficient pruning during IDB...
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03:12 < Provoostenator> It took a little under 2 weeks
03:12 < Provoostenator> Using ABCore; I don't know if that uses any optimization.
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03:14 < esotericnonsense> pimping https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11658 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11359
03:15 < Provoostenator> I also put a small bounty on #11720, as I'd love to try and run a full node on my iPhone X. I don't even have to prune it :-)
03:15 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11720 | iOS Deployment Target for RPC · Issue #11720 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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03:15 < wumpus> Provoostenator: their source is here: https://github.com/greenaddress/abcore  couldn't find the configure/compile flags there so quickly
03:15 < esotericnonsense> on pruning there's the seemingly longer-term thing of having writeback not flush (i haven't been paying attention to this for a while)
03:16 < wumpus> I don't think they're using our ARM builds, at least they didn't use to
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03:18 < Provoostenator> esotericnonsense: 11658 is wonderfully small
03:19 < esotericnonsense> i've only just seen it, i'm ill at the moment and trying to reason through the code isn't working. if it actually does what it says on the tin i like it and agree with promag that 10% is too little.
03:21 < esotericnonsense> wondering if there's some weird interaction with minimum prune size like if you are at 550MiB and use 50% can you end up with very few blocks.
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03:24 < Provoostenator> wumpus: I just nagged the author on Twitter, we'll see
03:25 < wumpus> might make sense to make their ndk build part of the standard gitian targets at some point
03:25 < Provoostenator> Maybe it should never go below 550, but any prune size above that will use some intelligent percentage.
03:26 < wumpus> anyhow if they reply please let me know what they use now
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03:34 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: Provoostenator: I also wonder if abcore added android ndk to the depends system (but never upstreamed it) or they're building their own dependencies somehow
03:35 < sipa> GAit is the author of abcore
03:35 < wumpus> oh lol
03:36 < Provoostenator> No, we should reach him through a screenshot of Twitter posted on Reddit with a link to this IRC log...
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03:36 < wumpus> hahahahah
03:38 < sipa> Provoostenator: excuse me, but i'm sure you meant a screenshot of a slack with a bridge of this IRC channel :p
03:39 < Provoostenator> That too. How hard would it be to make that bridge two-way, somehow mapping and authenticating Slack names to IRC names for those who use both?
03:41 < wumpus> I'm would be surprised if there's not already software for that and you just have to stash it somewhere and configure it. But to be honest I'd prefer no bridges *to* this channel, in the interest of managing signal-to-noise.
03:42 < Provoostenator> I suppose most people who can compile from source can figure out IRC.
03:42 < GAit> lol     
03:43 < GAit> so abcore used to use debian/archlinux build until core provided arm binaries. Now it uses ndk native builds, using github.com/greenaddress/bitcoin_ndk for the building part
03:43 < GAit> would love some feedback, it's very hacked up together (though I'm not too worried as abcore is experimental and in alpha)
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03:44 < GAit> to enable the arm optimization i will need to enable armv-7a (for Thumb-2)
03:45 < wumpus> Provoostenator: there you go: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge  (#monero-dev seems to have this, not sure what they're bridging from)
03:45 < wumpus> GAit: thanks
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03:46 < GAit> I'm using clang as android ndk deprecated gcc and they are going to remove it
03:47 < GAit> however i had to use an older ndk than the latest because the latest has some issues/bad headers
03:47 < wumpus> GAit: one suggestion would be to benchmark whether thumb or arm instructions gives the best performance. I vaguely remember that for me, simple ARM32 instructions gave the best performance at some point at least on the secp256k1 benches, on i.mx6.
03:48 < Provoostenator> wumpus: nice. I suppose you don't really need individual user authentication for this, just as long as all messages end up on both services (without feedback loops).
03:48 < GAit> wumpus: you mean things like field_10x26_arm.s 
03:49 < wumpus> GAit: I mean the code generation of the compiler, what kind of instructions it generates, whether it uses the processor in ARM or THUMB mode (or interwork)
03:50 < GAit> indeed to make sure one would  need to benchmark. but before you can benchmark you need to get it to work, and i will have to enable v7a/thumb-2 otherwise i get rc/asm/field_10x26_arm.s:109:2: error: instruction requires: thumb2
03:50 < wumpus> THUMB usually results in more compact code, but ARM instructions allow more flexibility, so doing more in less instructions. Then again this was relevant for ARM32, probably not for AARCH64.
03:52 < wumpus> GAit: just looked at the bitcoin_ndk build a bit and doesn't seem like it needs huge patches, I guess the introduction of src/ifaddrs.c is the biggest change
03:53 < GAit> wumpus: yes, it doesn't need much patching. Not with this ndk version anyway. Had to do a lot more with later and still didn't manage so i gave up.
03:53 < wumpus> I vaguely remember needing to do the "i686_linux_CC=$(default_host_CC) -m32" change in linux.mk as well. This was for building depends on ARM64, for ARM64. Depends is really rooted in 'we build from x86 linux' right now.
03:54 < wumpus> hmm okay
03:54 < GAit> I'm terrible at make/build otherwise i'd see if i could make a PR or more out of it
03:55 < wumpus> so building bitcoin core on most recent ndk is an open issue?
03:55 < GAit> (assuming there was interest)
03:55 < wumpus> there's certainly interest
03:55 < GAit> yes, i can do that on a branch so that you can see the travis log
03:56 < wumpus> going to open an issue for that
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04:02 < wumpus> GAit: just opened #11844 feel free to post that there so people have an idea what the open problems are
04:02 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11844 | Bitcoin core build on Android NDK · Issue #11844 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
04:07 < wumpus> FYI some people have also been building bitcoin core natively on android using termux (#11388), but that uses a debian derivative not NDK
04:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11388 | Building within termux fails with incomplete type CBlock · Issue #11388 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
04:07 < wumpus> oh that was esotericnonsense :)
04:07 < GAit> great, thanks wumpus . Oh I didn't know about termux having core builds, i searched in their repos. I was going to try that after failing on NDK but eventually trying different things got it to work
04:08 < esotericnonsense> GAit: it doesn't, i built it on termux
04:09 < esotericnonsense> i don't have the time to maintain it so didn't submit to packages
04:10 < wumpus> agree, distro packages for bitcoin are a bad idea if they're not maintained
04:10 < wumpus> tends to keep a share of the users permanently stuck in the past
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04:13 < Sentineo> bitcoins build system is awasome anyway, do not feel the lack of an official distro package per distribution
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04:16 < wumpus> yes it's pretty neat, quite uncommon for open source projects to ship with scripts to easily build dependencies
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04:16 < Sentineo> the only thing I could not manage is the gitian build
04:17 < Sentineo> but I did not try hard enough :)
04:17 < GAit> wumpus: indeed I would have never managed without the build system being 'generic' and being battle tested against arm
04:17 < wumpus> yeah gitian could definitely be easier
04:18 < Provoostenator> I still have some notes for a future Gitian documentation improvement PR, but I'd like to do a few more builds to wrap my head around it.
04:19 < Sentineo> Provoostenator: if you have a draft I would be happe to at least give you feedback :)
04:19 < Provoostenator> I'd like to get it to a point where anyone with OSX (others can do Linux / Windows) and very little sysadmin skills can sign a build.
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04:20 < Provoostenator> Sentineo: my scribbled notes are worse than the actual documentation :-)
04:21 < Sentineo> :) ok, just in case ... let me know
04:21 < wumpus> but better than nothing at all probably
04:22 < Provoostenator> I also wonder if it's possible to verify an OSX signed binary without gitian signers having to sign off on the signed binary.
04:22 < Provoostenator> I.e. isn't it possible to unpack a signed binary, strip the signature and then check that against the unsigned gitian build?
04:23 < Provoostenator> I'd need to study how OSX code signing actually works.
04:24 < wumpus> it's possible, but if gitian signers don't sign off on the signed binary that makes verification of hashes a lot harder. No longer can you just use sha256, but need a script, which might have been tampered with itself!
04:25 < Provoostenator> Right, so that would only make sense if the script is trivial enough that it fits on a T-shirt.
04:25 < wumpus> we looked at the inverse approach that you describe back in the day that we introduced signed executables, but decided not to because of drawbacks like that
04:25 < wumpus> right, and it takes some serious binary surgery so that's likely not the case and will have dependencies of itself
04:26 < Provoostenator> "Binary surgery" - lol
04:26 < Provoostenator> It's weird though; these executables work, so you'd think everything is already in the system...
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04:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11602: utils: removed deprecated check and function for OpenSSL compatiblity (master...old_openssl_names) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11602
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04:59 < GAit> wumpus: so for arm/thumb i can't just set global CFLAGS because otherwise native_ccaache will pick them up and break, suggest hacking linux.mk or is there an easy way maybe to disable native_ccache
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04:59 < wumpus> could add a NO_CCACHE that works similar to NO_WALLET NO_QT etc, but no currently that doesn't exist
05:00 < wumpus> but I agree that is inconvenient, maybe cfields has a simpler sugggestion
05:01 < GAit> well disabling it would be a hack, if itn's not there i think is better that i patch directly linux.mk to add my cflags there. Or, I could set them maybe just for the core build and not for the dependencies.
05:01 < wumpus> "passing global cflags for the target" would be nice as a supported option for depends, no matter ccache 
05:01 < GAit> yes indeed it would
05:02 < wumpus> I've run into similar issues in experimentation but also ended up patching makefiles
05:02 < GAit> i feel terrible/funny because i assumed it was possible and felt too embarassed to ask how so i've been looking and patching when i didn't find a better way
05:04 < GAit> anyway for now i'll try to set the flags just for the core build and not for the deps, unless that's stupid for some reason
05:06 < GAit> by the way, I think it's curious how ccache picks up my cflags but not my cc or cxx env vars
05:07 < wumpus> none of the dependencies that are not built into bitcoin's source tree are performance critical (maybe with the exception of boost, but that's mostly header only?)
05:08 < wumpus> so if you're experimenting with build flags setting them just for the core build is probably fine
05:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/497d0e014cc7...7630a1fe9a4c
05:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 529b866 MeshCollider: Test datadir in conf file exists
05:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7630a1f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11829: Test datadir specified in conf file exists...
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05:15 < GAit> wumpus: cool, ta
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05:17 < wumpus> (there's a similar consideration on whether to do flto on just bitcoin core or all the dependencies as well. Though that experiment was put on hold when it turned out flto somehow negatively affected performance, at least in a specific case)
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05:22 < GAit> wumpus: i've updated the issue you raised with the specific failure, has to do with NDK doing something stupid and the woraround would be to not set FILE_OFFSET_BITS
05:22 < GAit> only breaks on 32 bit, on 64 bit it works
05:22 < wumpus> okay at least easy to work around then, good
05:23 < GAit> well it wasn't that easy for me, i tried to unset it in a couple of places but probably i just misunderstood how it worked
05:24 < GAit> or what was setting it. I think core sets it
05:24 < GAit> but maybe some of the deps too?
05:25 < GAit> anyway after a long intensive and unfruitful discussion with the ndk that's when i just went to an earlier version
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05:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] wjcloud opened pull request #11845: Add gitian PGP key: wjcloud (master...p) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11845
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05:39 < wumpus> yes, core sets it in configure.ac
05:39 < GAit> yes so i tried to unset it there but i think it still failed, i.e. something else was setting it too, or at least that's what i recall
05:41 < wumpus> indeed,if that was all then we could just stop setting it when ndk build detected
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05:45 < GAit> the asm flags passed to core only break the configure, doesn't find boost sleep, i assume both (or neither) need them can't do it half and half
05:47 < wumpus> can you pastebin configure.log part where the boost sleep test fails? it has the detailed error message
05:47 < wumpus> the "cannot find boost sleep" error is completely useless in that regard it can mean so many things
05:48 < wumpus> would make sense to structure the boost detection differently, so that it first tries if it can compile/link anything against boost and only then try to find the sleep function to use
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05:49 < GAit> sure one sec
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05:52 < GAit> wumpus: https://pastebin.com/vUVcQSV9
05:53 < GAit> chokes on choke me
05:54 < wumpus> errors like /build/bitcoin-0.15.1/depends/arm-linux-androideabi/share/../lib/libboost_system-mt.a(error_code.o)(.ARM.extab+0xc): error: undefined reference to '__gxx_personality_v0'  look scarier
05:54 < wumpus> looks like it can't even link the c++ standard libary
05:54 < wumpus> so yes, apparently that doesn't work
05:55 < GAit> for what is worth this is master of bitcoin_ndk with extra "-march=armv7-a -mthumb" cflags for the core part (not the deps) of arm (not arm64)
05:55 < GAit> cflags and cxxflags to be precise
06:00 < wumpus> strange
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06:06 < wumpus> I wonder which of those two is the culprit
06:07 < wumpus> my guess would be at changing the arch
06:08 < wumpus> there are some compiler settings that effectively need a new build root but I've never noticed thumb/arm to be one of those
06:10 < wumpus> oh I remember it depends on the setting of interwork, ift that's not enabled you can't mix thumb and ARM. But it's pretyt much the default for a long time for linux distros at least.
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06:11 < GAit> maybe because i'm using clang the toolchain is not assuming linux? not sure
06:12 < wumpus> it could all be different for ndk which is not really linux
06:12 < GAit> kernel is linux, but no gnuland
06:12 < wumpus> kernel is a specially patched kernel to add bind etc, or are the android patches upstream now?
06:13 < wumpus> binder*
06:14 < wumpus> but yes that part is compatible in one direction, you can run debian rootfs' on android, but not android rootfs on debian
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06:57 < promag> wumpus: if you feel like merging something 11838 :P
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07:07 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #11847: Make boost::multi_index comparators const (master...2017-12-fix-const-comparator) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11847
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07:24 < promag> jnewbery: rebasing #10160?
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08:37 < wumpus> promag: thanks
08:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7630a1fe9a4c...3e5002412002
08:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa4c16d MarcoFalke: qa: Add getrawtransaction in_active_chain=False test
08:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3e50024 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11838: qa: Add getrawtransaction in_active_chain=False test...
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08:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11809: gui: Fix proxy setting options dialog crash (master...2017_12_gui_proxy_robustness) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11809
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08:44 < darklegacy> hii     
08:45 < darklegacy> any one there
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08:45 < darklegacy> hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
08:46 < instagibbs> no     
08:46 < darklegacy> helooo
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08:46 < instagibbs> more seriously: this channel is for Core development discussion, please no chatter
08:46 < instagibbs> #bitcoin for chatter
08:46 < darklegacy> can some one teach me how to mine bitcoin
08:47 < darklegacy> where to start???
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08:50 < promag_> wumpus: meeting in about 2 hours right?
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08:51 < wumpus> promag_: yes
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08:51 < promag> thank, probably I'll be late, have to get kids..
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08:52 < wumpus> date -u -> 19:00 UTC
08:52 < promag> ok     
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08:53 < wumpus> ok well feel free to drop in later
08:53 < promag> I would like to discuss #11826 as it interacts with other PR's
08:54 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11826 | RFC: Activity feature · Issue #11826 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
08:54 < promag> end of queue thou
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09:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/80f9dad0b799...4ef4dfebbc07
09:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ec0c0a Suhas Daftuar: Make boost::multi_index comparators const...
09:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4ef4dfe Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11847: Make boost::multi_index comparators const...
09:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11847: Make boost::multi_index comparators const (master...2017-12-fix-const-comparator) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11847
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10:12 < Mg> Join
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10:12 -!- Mg is now known as Guest82059     
10:13 < Guest82059> CSbreakdown
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10:15 < Guest82059> How can i do mining of bitcoin 
10:15 < belcher> wrong channel, try #bitcoin
10:16 < sipa> #bitcoin
10:16 < Guest82059> Mining of #bitcoin
10:16 < sipa> please, not here. go to #bitcoin
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10:56 < jonasschnelli> re BTC message signing: what is the "vchSig[0] = 27 + rec + (fCompressed ? 4 : 0);". Is that packing the recid together with the compress-flag into a single byte?
10:56 < jonasschnelli> Why 27?
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11:00 < achow101> meeting?
11:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
11:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  7 19:00:51 2017 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
11:00 < instagibbs> yes     
11:01 < meshcollider> hi     
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11:01 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag
11:01 < jonasschnelli> hi     
11:01 < cfields> hi     
11:01 < Provoostenator> hi     
11:01 < wumpus> #topic high priority for review
11:01 < achow101> hi     
11:01 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
11:02 < wumpus> there was lots of review on #11403 this week
11:02 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11403 | SegWit wallet support by sipa · Pull Request #11403 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:02 < wumpus> but nothing ready for merge yet AFAIK
11:03 < kanzure> hi.     
11:03 < jnewbery> hello
11:03  * BlueMatt is working on reviewing it now...lots of "ehh, you should clean this up instead of hacking around it" type things which may get pushed to a new pr, but nothing broken yet
11:03 < sipa> hi, only half here
11:03 < BlueMatt> re: high prio #11383 should probably be taken off
11:03 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11383 | Basic Multiwallet GUI support by luke-jr · Pull Request #11383 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:03 < BlueMatt> cause luke-jr hasnt kept up with it
11:04 < wumpus> sipa: which half?
11:04 < BlueMatt> jnewbery: promised me he'd rebase #10740
11:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10740 | [wallet] dynamic loading/unloading of wallets by jnewbery · Pull Request #10740 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:04 < wumpus> BlueMatt: ok
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11:04 < instagibbs> will retest segwit wallet/qt pr on top of #11839
11:04 < jonasschnelli> I'll try to take over 11383 (we should have this in 0.16)
11:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11839 | dont attempt mempool entry for wallet transactions on startup if alr… by instagibbs · Pull Request #11839 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:04 < promag> hi     
11:05 < BlueMatt> oh, yea, 11839 should be tagged 0.16
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11:05 < BlueMatt> its a trivial fix, I think
11:05 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: no need to take it over if instagibbs is active on it?
11:05 < wumpus> if it's a trival fix it should probably be merged instead of tagged?
11:06 < instagibbs> BlueMatt, wrong PR, just looks like he mentioned it i think?
11:06 < jonasschnelli> I'm doing the Multiwalltet GUI PR
11:06 < instagibbs> that's multiwallet
11:06 < BlueMatt> ohoh, yea, wrong #
11:06  * BlueMatt suggested an alternative fix for 11839, so thats just pending disucssion of "the right fix"
11:06 < BlueMatt> all options are relatively trivial
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11:07 < BlueMatt> #11824 may be mergeable with another review to fix reindex on master, jamesob indicated his issue was the result of "running wrong build"
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11:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11824 | Block ActivateBestChain to empty validationinterface queue by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #11824 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:08 < achow101> I think #11824 can be merged.
11:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11824 | Block ActivateBestChain to empty validationinterface queue by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #11824 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:08 < wumpus> #action merge #11824
11:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11824 | Block ActivateBestChain to empty validationinterface queue by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #11824 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:08 < achow101> I did notice another OOM issue I think, but it looked like to be hard to reproduce and required significant uptime
11:09 < BlueMatt> achow101: I failed to find any hidden memory in massif, but I'm still doing runs in it so will look further
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11:10 < wumpus> do we have a memory leak?
11:11 < BlueMatt> I dont (currently) believe so...master will OOM during reindex cause validation runs ahead of validationinterface and memory grows huge, but its not technically a leak cause it will catch up eventually if you have enough memory to do it
11:11 < wumpus> I haven't had any OOM crashes FWIW
11:11 < BlueMatt> 11824 fixes that
11:11 < jonasschnelli> Did also a quick run with my leak tool and some stuff popped up. leveldb, bdb ansd some other things
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11:11 < jonasschnelli> Will have a closer look soon
11:11 < wumpus> oh, only during reindex, I haven't done that recently
11:11 < BlueMatt> topics?
11:12 < BlueMatt> wumpus: could also happen directly after restart if you've been offline for a month or whatever
11:12 < achow101> or during IBD
11:12 < wumpus> I think an OOM issue is a pretty serious topic? but other suggestions are welcome of course
11:12 < morcos> if anyone objects to my "won't fix" of #11800, speak up now.  will update code comments per ryanofsky suggestion
11:12 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11800 | Bitcoin is returning higher fees for 36 block window than 2 block window (on testnet) · Issue #11800 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:12 < BlueMatt> well I think we've at least gotten 97% of it down, several folks looking into the last 3 and it may be a false positive
11:12 < Provoostenator> OOM?
11:12 < michagogo> Out Of Memory
11:13 < achow101> wumpus: the only known OOM right now is fixed by 11824
11:13 < BlueMatt> achow101: ibd seems less likely cause time spent downloading blocks is time for wallet to catch up...
11:13 < wumpus> achow101: ok
11:13 < wumpus> on to morcos' topic
11:13  * BlueMatt makes a quick note that, of the high-priority-to-review items, #11363 is very easy to review and has been sitting for a while
11:13 < wumpus> #topic Bitcoin is returning higher fees for 36 block window than 2 block window (on testnet)
11:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11363 | net: Split socket create/connect by theuni · Pull Request #11363 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:14 < wumpus> #action review #11363
11:14 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11363 | net: Split socket create/connect by theuni · Pull Request #11363 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:14 < wumpus> anyone opposing 'wontfix' there?
11:14 < jonasschnelli> we should at least know why
11:14 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: morcos had a writeup on the issue
11:15 < jonasschnelli> #?     
11:15 < cfields> BlueMatt: thanks :)
11:15 < BlueMatt> #11800
11:15 < morcos> 11800
11:15 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11800 | Bitcoin is returning higher fees for 36 block window than 2 block window (on testnet) · Issue #11800 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:15 < wumpus> morcos posted that
11:15 < wumpus> right
11:16 < wumpus> so the situation is pretty much unique to testnet and extremely unlikley on mainnet
11:16 < jonasschnelli> IMO low prio or even "won't fix"
11:16 < BlueMatt> yea, I mean I think I'd prefer to not call it "wont fix", but certainly not anything worth spending time on compared to other priorities
11:16 < wumpus> I tend to agree, very low priority if it only affects testnet's wildness
11:17 < jonasschnelli> what BlueMatt said
11:17 < wumpus> we kind of know that the current testnet isn't realistic
11:17 < wumpus> a frequent request is a more realistic testnet FWIW
11:18 < BlueMatt> suggested topic: testnet4
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11:19 < midnightmagic> the data in tn3 is fairly valuable on its own. if any tn reset is being considered for a pullreq it would be really nice to effect a high-quality preservation of tn3. like an option or something to put it into archive-mode.
11:19 < BlueMatt> you mean as test-cases?
11:19 < promag> next topic? btw I would like to have more NACK/ACK on #11826
11:19 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11826 | RFC: Activity feature · Issue #11826 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:19 < midnightmagic> as test-cases and historical reference.
11:19 < Provoostenator> What about cherry-picking interesting testnet3 transactions?
11:19 < wumpus> no tn reset is being considered
11:20 < jonasschnelli> That's more regression testing?
11:20 < BlueMatt> wumpus: please add comma, or do you mean we're not considering it?
11:20 < wumpus> keeping tn3 support is fine
11:20 < midnightmagic> okay. sorry, carry on. :)
11:20 < wumpus> BlueMatt: huh? yes I mean we're not considering it. Any new testnet would be an addition, I think.
11:21 < BlueMatt> I meannn...I guess thats fine? I think I was considering just moving to testnet4
11:21 < wumpus> (still not sure where to add the comma)
11:21 < BlueMatt> if nothing else testnet3 with a mindiff higher than 1, and to not have a million blocks
11:22 < BlueMatt> lots of complaints about even spv sync time in testnet3 cause of so many blocks
11:22 < morcos> i vote we do segwit wallet support first
11:22 < wumpus> there was some talk of doing a testnet with signed blocks which simulates behavior of the mainnet
11:22 < wumpus> morcos: yes, absolutely
11:22 < BlueMatt> i mean thats also of interest, yea
11:22 < phantomcircuit> huh what im here
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11:22 < meshcollider> topic suggestion: the various config file PRs
11:22 < adiabat> testnet having lots of headers needed for SPV may motivate more efficient header transmission
11:22 < meshcollider> e.g. #10996 and #10267
11:23 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10996 | Add per-network config file network.conf by ajtowns · Pull Request #10996 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:23 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10267 | New -includeconf argument for including external configuration files by kallewoof · Pull Request #10267 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:23 < wumpus> #topic config file handling
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11:24 < meshcollider> We have to work out what configurations we should support, e.g. whether -conf should be repeatable, whether we have -includeconf, -netconf and -conf, etc.
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11:24 < wumpus> so the question is pretty much whether to do per-network config file
11:24 < jonasschnelli> IMO the config layers are already complex... not sure if we want to add more
11:24 < meshcollider> its getting a bit messy
11:24 < wumpus> or -testnet-X and -regtest-X
11:24 < jonasschnelli> There are serval levels and multiple files
11:24 < wumpus> where X are options like port, walletdir, logfile, which are only useful per network
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11:25 < wumpus> currently if you define e.g. port or bind in bitcoin.conf you will get collisions when you run both testnet and mainnet on the same machine
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11:25 < meshcollider> one idea I had was suggested in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10996#issuecomment-346189099, basically we default to using root-level bitcoin.conf and network specific network.conf if they exist, but if -conf is specified then we just use that and not the network specific one too
11:26 < wumpus> so one potential solution for that was to do per-network config files, but as said that makes things reallly complex
11:26 < meshcollider> and then allow -conf to be repeatable?
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11:26 < wumpus> so an alternative proposal was just to do -regtest-port -testnet-port etc
11:26 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: +1
11:26 < aj> from 10267, having conf repeatable or includeconf recursive seems hard to implement well; currently it only handles a single additional config file aiui
11:26 < wumpus> and I think I like that
11:26 < meshcollider> wumpus what about unique addnode's for each network
11:26 < wumpus> so bare -port will be only for mainnet
11:26 < wumpus> meshcollider: -regtest-addnode -testnet-addnode
11:27 < meshcollider> so just allow -regtest or -testnet to be prefixed to any existing arg?
11:27 < promag> yes, I think that is pretty simple and clear
11:27 < promag> if not set, defaults to?
11:27 < wumpus> these can be specified in any config file or on the command line, no difference, no *context sensitivity* like per-network config files
11:27 < jonasschnelli> promag: the default :)
11:27 < wumpus> yes,the default
11:28 < meshcollider> and then still support  #10267 ?
11:28 < wumpus> meshcollider: yes
11:28 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10267 | New -includeconf argument for including external configuration files by kallewoof · Pull Request #10267 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:28 < wumpus> includeconf is orthogonal
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11:28 < wumpus> I see no reason why not
11:28 < meshcollider> yeah but it would allow -regtest-includeconf=whatever
11:28 < promag> jonasschnelli: default of the network right?
11:28 < meshcollider> so it could be good :)
11:28 < jonasschnelli> promag: yes
11:28 < wumpus> it's pretty standard these days to allow including config files from config files for daemons
11:28 < morcos> wait, just so i understand, if you run ./bitcoind -regtest , then do you also have to add -regtest- to each of your command line options
11:28 < morcos> that would be super annoying
11:29 < cfields> an alternative to that would be sections in a config file. and on the cmdline they'd look like namespaces. so, [testnet] port=5. or -testnet::port=5.
11:29 < wumpus> almost any program supporting config files supports that in any way
11:29 < promag> wumpus: yes, like inherit other config
11:29 < morcos> cfields: that soudns way better
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11:29 < wumpus> cfields: fine with me too
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11:29 < wumpus> it's just that per-network config files make things too complex, so I'd like to avoid that
11:30 < meshcollider> morcos: I guess anything without a prefix would be used no matter what network was chosen
11:30 < wumpus> which kind of namespacing whether it's [net]option or -net-option I don't mind much
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11:30 < cfields> and in time the sections could potentially be broken out an included/inerited. but the simple change seems like a simple enough first step to me.
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11:30 < wumpus> meshcollider: yeah...
11:30 < jonasschnelli> but morcos point is valid. What if you just start use CLI params and switch between networks... 
11:30 < cfields> simple == simple. nice.
11:30 < morcos> seems like it would make a lot of sense to have a single conf file, that has sections : [default] [mainnet] [testnet] [regtest] and you always end up reading default and one of the others
11:30 < jonasschnelli> do you need to add/switch the namespace all the times?
11:31 < wumpus> morcos: yes
11:31 < aj> morcos: +1
11:31 < sipa> ok, back
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11:32 < meshcollider> cool, next topic then :)
11:32 < wumpus> yes seems we agree
11:32 < promag> #11826
11:32 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11826 | RFC: Activity feature · Issue #11826 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:32 < meshcollider> jonasschnelli: what do you mean
11:32 < jonasschnelli> meshcollider: solves with the namespaces described by morcos. 
11:32 < jonasschnelli> *solved
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11:33 < meshcollider> promag: I like 11826
11:33 < wumpus> #topic activity feature
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11:33 < meshcollider> concept ACK from me
11:33 < jnewbery> seems like the namespace model gives you separate conf files for free: just add a -includeconf in your relevant network namespace
11:33 < jonasschnelli> Yes. We should have that
11:33 < wumpus> I think everyone likes 11826
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11:33 < jonasschnelli> Bitcoin Core does a lot of things under the hood... and there is no way to see/control that
11:33 < promag> I have one problem there
11:33 -!- Masaomi[m] [masaomimat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tloizzbpelbrqwbh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]     
11:33  * BlueMatt isnt sure about the use-cases for 11826
11:33 < jonasschnelli> An activity window is something should have IMO
11:33 < promag> should the activity have a boost::variant<> source?
11:33 < BlueMatt> seems like putting the cart before the horse, as it were
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11:34 < BlueMatt> like, the only things that can go *into* the activity window are things you do from rpc debug window
11:34 < promag> or should we have class WalletActivity : Activity ?
11:34 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: most stuff in there should be read-only...
11:34 < promag> BlueMatt: why?
11:34 < sipa> promag: seems like an implementation details
11:34 < BlueMatt> in that case, building an activity window should probably come after making rescan, etc things that users have access to
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11:34 < sipa> BlueMatt: reindex-chainstate too
11:34 < BlueMatt> isnt reindex-chainstate handled like ibd?
11:35 < BlueMatt> (as it should be)/
11:35 < sipa> yes, it is
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11:35 < BlueMatt> (cause we cant get a progress indicator for reindex-chainstate)
11:35 < sipa> ?     
11:35 < BlueMatt> I mean the only progress indicator you can do is the same as ibd
11:36 < promag> BlueMatt: in those cases it's an indeterminate progress bar
11:36 < jonasschnelli> Maybe we should first fix the rescan GUI "abortness", then continue with the activity window (will take a while)
11:36 < jonasschnelli> A single progress bar does certainly limit use cases.
11:36 < wumpus> yes     
11:36  * BlueMatt is just saying, if someone wants to build an activity window, ok, have fun, but I'm not sure where it actually makes all that much sense, cause we dont have many activities that users almost ever do)
11:37 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: not only the user triggered ones...
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11:37 < promag> BlueMatt: also, activities could stays on the window even after finished, like a log, or your download history
11:37 < BlueMatt> download history?
11:37 < sipa> i do agree there are relatively few use cases now, but the concept is useful... and i think eventually we want to be able to do things more concurrently anyway
11:37 < BlueMatt> you mean rescan history
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11:38 < promag> no, I mean browser download history
11:38 < jonasschnelli> Yeah.. a mix between Activity and short term log would be possible
11:38 < jonasschnelli> but hard to make it right
11:38 < promag> it's more friendly than a raw log
11:38 < phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lots of users complain about ibd apparently stalling, something that indicated what was happening would be good
11:38 < jonasschnelli> [disappearing message] new block validated \n [disappearing message] new peer 1.1.1.1 connected
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11:38 < BlueMatt> I mean if I'm a user, I dont really want to see a progress history thing, tbh....either I have all the transactions in my wallet or I dont...
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11:39 < wumpus> for that, a debug log view would be more useful
11:39 < wumpus> let's not conflate ongoing activities with a log
11:39 < cfields> :q     
11:39 < cfields> er, heh
11:39 < jonasschnelli> heh... Yes.
11:40 < jonasschnelli> previous attempts that are more or less a log where kinda accepted #5896 
11:40 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/5896 | [Qt][PoC] introduce "core-pulse" by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #5896 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:40 < promag> ok, I'll try to keep it simple
11:40 < BlueMatt> but, ongoing activities are like....rescan, just rescan, and thats not something you should do all that often...ibd/reindex/sync is a rather separate thing
11:40 < BlueMatt> but, anyway, it sounds like I'm the only one who disagrees, so I'm happy to shut up :p
11:40 < wumpus> sending a transaction is also an ongoing activity 
11:41 < wumpus> ideally the GUI would move to do all those things asynchronously instead of in the GUI thread
11:41 < BlueMatt> I mean it sounds like y'all want to restructure our entire gui around an activity log...
11:41 < achow101> I also don't really see the utility of an activity window. but I don't really care either way
11:41 < promag> un/loading wallets too
11:41 < wumpus> no, I want to structure the GUI asynchronously
11:41 < wumpus> an activity thing would be a nice thing that comes with it
11:41 < BlueMatt> sending txn is rather async already, no? I mean you send and then you wait on confirms, maybe with a feebump
11:42 < BlueMatt> (at a user level, that is)
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11:43 < jonasschnelli> Lets promag work on that concept and see where it leads to. It's certenly good to have it around in case we can do more stuff in parallel and have other cases where we want to show progress
11:43 < wumpus> the point is that comments are executed in the GUI thread, with the various locks held
11:43 < wumpus> commands*
11:43 < jonasschnelli> Also it would be useful for IPC (GUI / node detatch)
11:43 < instagibbs> probably makes more sense if the wallet is more goal-driven, for now I don't mind the feature
11:43 < instagibbs> (re: wallet comments)
11:44 < wumpus> which is not a nice user experience
11:44 < promag> ok guys, I'll file the PR soon
11:44 < wumpus> e.g. what I've noticed is that when it's catching up to the chain, getting the information for coin control hangs the entire GUI for half a minute sometimes
11:45 < wumpus> which would be fine if it showed a progress indicator but not if everything just blocks
11:45 < Randolf> That would likely cause many users to think it crashed.
11:45 < wumpus> well the window manager starts to think that too
11:45 < wumpus> and wants to kill it
11:46 < jonasschnelli> The GUI synchronousness does sometimes lead to terrible UX.
11:46 < Randolf> Yes.  And under the Windows OS, the user sees a message along the lines of "Task not responding" with an option to kill the task.
11:46 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: it was always my intent to change that but I just don't get around to it
11:47 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: it's also pretty complex
11:47 < wumpus> nah, not really complex, just work
11:47 < BlueMatt> yea, cs_main-y-ness of gui sucks atm :(
11:47 < Randolf> So, if the GUI is on a separate thread, then it can always respond to the OS and the user's operations (e.g., open the Help menu, load/save wallets, print reports, etc.) while waiting for updates from the other threads.
11:47 < jonasschnelli> Randolf: we are trying that (ask ryanofsky) :)
11:47 < wumpus> Randolf: right
11:47 < Randolf> jonasschnelli:  Cool!
11:48 < BlueMatt> anyway, more topics in 10 minutes?
11:48 < sipa> i have one
11:48 < sipa> would a libgmp dependency by acceptable?
11:49 < BlueMatt> for....secp? or your muhash stuff?
11:49 < Randolf> jonasschnelli:  I've done a lot of Java development, and this is how JFC/Swing and the newer JavaFX handle things.  The use of atomic variables and thread-safe queues becomes pretty important.  Maybe the original GUI for Bitcoin was designed with more development convenience in mind just so that the
11:49 < Randolf> project could get completed faster?  I don't consider this to be a bad thing, necessarily, but I'm glad to know that there's an interest in improving this.
11:49 < BlueMatt> I mean doesnt secp optionally use it already?
11:49 < wumpus> #topic libgmp dependency
11:49 < wumpus> libgmp is GPL right?
11:50 < sipa> BlueMatt: it does, and there is a small performanc benefit from using it for validation itself
11:50 < wumpus> if it's MIT/BSD licensed it's ok with me
11:50 < meshcollider> wumpus: yep I think so
11:50 < wumpus> but if it's GPL, we have to say no
11:50 < sipa> but for UTXO hashes it would be a huge difference
11:50 < sipa> i see
11:50 < cfields> sipa: i assume you mean a non-optional dep?
11:50 < sipa> it's LGPLv3
11:50 < sipa> cfields: right
11:50 < ryanofsky> Randolf maybe see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10244 which separates bitcoin gui code from wallet/node code
11:51 < meshcollider> sipa: also uses GPLv2 I think
11:51 < wumpus> there's really no other library implementing that?
11:51 < Randolf> Thanks ryanofsky.
11:51 < wumpus> (which could have a more suitable license)
11:51 < sipa> wumpus: specifically, it's for jacobi symbol computation
11:51  * BlueMatt personally thinks its fine to ship lgpl stuff, but others likely disagree
11:51 < aj> meshcollider: it's user's discretion as to GPLv2+ or LGPLv3+
11:52 < cfields> sipa: license aside, it would feel a little backwards to introduce a new dep which may at some point be consensus critical :(
11:52 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt]     
11:52 < sipa> which is not impossible to implement ourselves, and probably faster if we do, but it's very nontrivial
11:52 < sipa> cfields: it wouldn't be
11:52 < sipa> cfields: everything we'd use would be verified
11:52 < wumpus> cfields: also agree with that
11:53 < wumpus> so apart from using libgmp and implementing it ourselves there are no options?
11:53 < sipa> or take the performance hit
11:53 < aj> sipa: context is #10434 ?
11:53 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10434 | [WIP] 3072-bit MuHash based hash_serialized by sipa · Pull Request #10434 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:53 < sipa> 10434 uses the modular multiplication group approach, which doesn't need this - it's faster but much harder to cache
11:54 < sipa> the alternative approach is using EC based rolling hashes, for which using jacobi symbols would be a 2x speedup or so
11:54 < sipa> wumpus: so a 3rd option is not implementing EC-based rolling hashes
11:54 < promag> out-of-battery o/
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11:55 < wumpus> also after all the work that was done to lose dependency on openssl for bignums, to introduce dependency on a new arbitrary precision library seems also a reversal to me
11:55 < sipa> so i just wanted to bring it up to see what the option were
11:55 < BlueMatt> so if we use lgpl gmp as a dep, and then someone wants to ship a bitcoincore-modified binary with all deps static-linked, they'd be screwed?
11:56 < sipa> wumpus: to be clear, nothing would be consensus critical (even if rolling hashes were somehow made a consensus rule)
11:56 < aj> BlueMatt: lgpl means they'd have to release sources or their .o/.a files
11:57 < BlueMatt> yea, ok, i meannnn, probably fine, but that is a real change in effective license of bitcoin core
11:57 < morcos> sipa: 2x speedup in what exactly
11:57 < morcos> when would those computations happen and what is the base latency
11:57 < cfields> sipa: at the risk of going too far off-topic, aren't there curves with potentially quicker and guaranteed O(1) map operations?
11:58 < morcos> piont being, perhaps we can punt on the question of libgmp until it becomes clear that optimizing the speed is an important tradeoff to make
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11:58 < wumpus> good point morcos
11:58 < instagibbs> morcos, +1
11:58 < sipa> cfields: let's discuss outside of the meeting
11:58 < sipa> morcos: updating a rolling hash given a set of UTXOs created and spent
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11:58 < cfields> ok     
11:58 < BlueMatt> well meeting over anyway
11:58 < gmaxwell> ugh was missing meeting.
11:59 < instagibbs> gmaxwell, 2 minutes
11:59 < instagibbs> 1 minute
11:59 < morcos> right, so how often are we envisioning doing that, does it happen async to everything else, and how long does it take without libgmp
11:59 < gmaxwell> why did we start talking about libgmp? :(
11:59 < sipa> in an absolutely first implementation, i would expect that that would just affect gettxoutsetinfo or its equivalent that just computes the hash from the UTXO set from scratch
11:59 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: blame sipa
11:59 < gmaxwell> sipa: we do not want gmp as part of bitcoin's consensus critical paths,  totally independently of using it as a dependency.
11:59 < sipa> $ git blame sipa
11:59 < sipa> fatal: cannot stat path 'sipa': No such file or directory
11:59 < BlueMatt> yes, that point was made
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11:59 < sipa> gmaxwell: absolutely
12:00 < sipa> no intention of changing that
12:00 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Dec  7 20:00:26 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:00 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-07-19.00.html
12:00 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-07-19.00.txt
12:00 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-07-19.00.log.html
12:00 < gmaxwell> ah, you were talking about it for the jacobi symbol for aggregate validation?
12:00 < aj> libzmq is lgpl isn't it?
12:00 < wumpus> yes     
12:01 < wumpus> aj: no
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12:01 < sipa> more in the context of rolling hashes
12:01 < wumpus> aj: oh, you're actually right
12:01 < wumpus> aj: wtf, I never knew
12:01 < wumpus> aj: however zmq is optional
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12:02 < BlueMatt> that sucks...our release binaries have lgpl crap in them and we dont have an easy way to get a bitcoind that is linked to everything but zmq?
12:02 < aj> the release binaries have zmq now?
12:02  * BlueMatt wonders if some altcoins are violating that license
12:02 < BlueMatt> almost certainly are
12:03 < achow101> releases have zmq and have had them for a while now
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12:05 < wumpus> --disable-zmq
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12:06 < wumpus> (or was it --without-zmq, I don't remember)
12:07 < wumpus> my preferred way for not linking against something is just to not have it installed on the VM
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12:10 < aj> wumpus: btw, i got a manually runnable script that gives some approximate pr status's that might be worth a look; script and (edited) output are at https://gist.github.com/ajtowns/bdc91590471559b5c73682fdfa712b15
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12:12 < jonasschnelli> aj: nice!
12:12 < aj> #10520 and #10149 could probably be closed
12:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10520 | 0.14 by gentlejack · Pull Request #10520 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:13 < sc__> hi!     
12:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10149 | gentlejack by gentlejack · Pull Request #10149 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:13 < wumpus> aj: cool
12:13 < jonasschnelli> aj: What I really would like to have is something like this in a web-base script (CGI)
12:13 < sc__> does anybody know by chance, why bitcoind regtest is missing witness data in p2p messages?
12:14 < sc__> and how to get witness data via p2p?
12:14 < instagibbs> sc__, make sure you actually activated segwit by making a few hundred blocks...
12:14 < jonasschnelli> aj: That web-site/app could be an interactive mode of that script you wrote with some cookie based local editing... one could flag the PRs he wants to review (locally stored)
12:14 < wumpus> for me a console-based tool is better
12:14 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: nerd! :)
12:14 < sc__> instagibbs: I really did this (the block count is over 11000 now)
12:14 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yeah.. consol based would even make more sense...
12:15 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: just extremely paranoid :)
12:15 < jonasschnelli> not sure if ncurses is more complex then HTML
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12:15 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: But I guess at some point, you have to link to the github issue to read more about it... or do you use lynx or some sort of console browsing?
12:16 < instagibbs> aj, very cool
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12:16 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: sometimes, but lynx doesn't work very well/at all on github
12:17 < instagibbs> aj, maybe the submitter shouldn't be able to advance their own PR's labels, heh
12:17 < jonasschnelli> aj's tool should also include the discussion,.. ideally it would be a full fletched github console client... :)
12:17  * jonasschnelli stops dreaming now
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12:18 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: I think it's a good argument for the tool to be low-level, just print the data in some format - anything like a UI can be added on top
12:18 < aj> instagibbs: oh, did someone ack their own PR? i didn't put a check in for that in the python version
12:18 < jonasschnelli> sure. However, well done aj
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12:19 < instagibbs> aj you did in your PR testing it :P, unless I missed something
12:19 < jonasschnelli> kallewoof: re your BIP174,... I guess this also works perfectly fine for pure unsigned transaction...
12:19 < aj> instagibbs: oh, yeah, in that i specifically disabled the check so i could test it :)
12:19 < wumpus> and aj wrote it in python instead of (s)hellscript, I like that
12:20 < aj> wumpus: oh, i have some curl|jshon for loops i was using earlier if you prefer :)
12:20 < jonasschnelli> kallewoof: the "partially signed" tag makes it look that is "partially" unusable for pure softwallet<->hardware wallet interaction
12:20 < wumpus> aj: nooooooo :)
12:20 < aj> wumpus: curl -s https://api.github.com/repos/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?"page=$a;per_page=100" | jshon -a -e number -u -p -e updated_at -u -p -e head -e sha -u -p -p -e base -e ref -u; done | paste -s -d '   \n'
12:21 < instagibbs> jonasschnelli, link? haven't seen recent work on it
12:21 < jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0174.mediawiki
12:21 < instagibbs> I have an ugly hww integration working, but am looking for a more generic signraw API
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12:21 < instagibbs> jonasschnelli, I mean why kallewoof ? achow101 is the author of the bip?
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12:22 < jonasschnelli> instagibbs: argh! Right... meant achow101 
12:22 < instagibbs> aw darn :) thinking of writing that interface anyways...
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12:24 < achow101> jonasschnelli: hmm?
12:24 < jonasschnelli> achow101: re your BIP174...
12:25 < instagibbs> jonasschnelli, yes the idea is that createraw, or something, would create a thing that is potentially signable
12:25 < jonasschnelli> I'm looking for a standard how software watch-only wallets (assume Core) can talk to a hardware wallet
12:25 < jonasschnelli> Need to read more into the BIP... but seems 174 does cover that case pretty well
12:25 < wumpus> seems there is suddenly lots of interest in signing messages
12:25 < aj> jonasschnelli: anyhoo, i could turn that RESULTS.txt into some html with links and nicer formatting, updated by cron once an hour or something without too much trouble; making it properly dynamic/current would take some effort though. worthwhile?
12:25 < achow101> jonasschnelli: how would it be unusable?
12:26 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: yeah! I'm feeling like I'm missing a party... don't know what people do sign now all the times
12:26 < instagibbs> wumpus, this time it's transactions, we swear!
12:26 < jonasschnelli> achow101: Assume I have a Core in watch only mode and did a fundrawtransaction with watch only inputs... then I'd like to hand "it" over to the hardware wallet.
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12:27 < jonasschnelli> achow101: What data and what schemantics do I use
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12:27 < jonasschnelli> BIP174 would be a way? woudln't it?
12:27 < achow101> yes, bip174 would
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12:27 < jonasschnelli> because there is no other standard how to serialize a data-blob including the inputs and other elements required for signing
12:27 < instagibbs> that was the reason for the bip, ye
12:28 < achow101> the hardware wallet interaction was one of the motivators for making the bip
12:28 < jonasschnelli> achow101: would a mime type make sense?
12:28 < jonasschnelli> instagibbs: or what channels to transmit your data-package have you considered?
12:28 < jonasschnelli> mean achow101 
12:28 < wumpus> aj: gives me a TypeError: https://0bin.net/paste/wG-O21gNtVhwBDA3#Y0XyZu5-tENRZZZSy14gX41LNcF9okNM2sTlIvnsvhK
12:28 < achow101> jonasschnelli: I haven't considered any channel for transmitting the data itself.
12:29 < achow101> I considered that to be out of scope
12:29 < aj> wumpus: you probably hit the rate limit
12:29 < achow101> jonasschnelli: I think that such a protocol would be a separate bip entirely as you could transmit the data any number of ways
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12:29 < wumpus> aj: oh I should buy more github tokens? :p
12:29 < aj> wumpus: get a token from https://github.com/settings/tokens and set GITHUB_LOGIN=laanw and GITHUB_PASSWORD= your token.
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12:30 < wumpus> ok, thanks
12:30 < jonasschnelli> achow101: yes... hard to figure out what ways could be standartized
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12:33 < wumpus> aj: oh wowthis is pretty neat, even allows setting permissions per token
12:33 < aj> wumpus: yeah, doesn't suck.
12:33 < wumpus> I guess it needs no permissions at all as it's read-only?
12:34 < aj> wumpus: yup
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12:35 < wumpus> I wish github ssh keys could be configured in the same way, e.g. a certain key can be set to only allow to push to a certain project
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12:37 < aj> wumpus: guess they want you do do that by protecting branchs and pull request statuses (like "can't merge if travis doesn't give the ok")
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12:38 < wumpus> aj: yes that can only allow certain users to push to certain branches, which is extremely useful
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12:39 < wumpus> aj: but in my case it'd be useful to have a certain VM/user only have keys to push to a certain repo and not all repos my account has access to. I could create multiple accounts but meh.
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12:41 < wumpus> aj: anyhow github has improved a lot with regard to more granular access control in the last few years which is very good
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12:42 < aj> wumpus: i think you could make a "github app" which you could then assign to a repo and which could maybe then push to non-protected branches...
12:43 < wumpus> aj: yep non-protected branches would be fine; allow it to push to laanwj/bitcoin but not bitcoin/bitcoin master for example
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12:44 < aj> wumpus: hmm, i might see if that works actually. i was thinking about having lightningbot update a repo of its meeting logs automatically (and use an Attendees file there to pick people to highlight), but got stuck on how to push... https://github.com/ajtowns/bitcoin-core-meetings
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12:46 < wumpus> aj: I've enabled the token and with that, check_acks ran to completion without error, thanks
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12:56 < promag> wumpus: considering the current lockunspent help description, #5584 can be closed right?
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12:56 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/5584 | Ability to examine, save locked-UTXO state · Issue #5584 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:58 < wumpus> promag: I'm not sure; what does the help description change about a feature request?
12:59 < promag> ah right, feature request
12:59 < promag> not really something important to implement right?
13:00 < wumpus> no     
13:01 < wumpus> well there are certainly use-cases for persistently locking UTXOs in the wallet
13:03 < wumpus> less if 'abandontransaction' always worked
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13:04 < wumpus> the most common use case of locking UTXOs persistently would be a transaction, I think where the use case for explicit locking comes from is to be able to unlock them easily again, which isn't possible with the current wallet code
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13:07 < wumpus> how long does it take for github to forgive you for rate limit exceeding? I can't use github-merge.py either anymore from this IP :-)
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13:09 < promag> wumpus: I know a use case where there is explicit locking, and because of the lack of lock persistence, the locks are saved outside and verified/repeated
13:10 < wumpus> promag: yeah...
13:13 < aj> wumpus: curl -s -i https://api.github.com/repos/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects | grep ^X-RateLimit
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13:13 < aj> wumpus: the RateLimit-Reset should give you a timestamp under an hour away
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13:14 < wumpus> aj: X-RateLimit-Reset: 1512681788 -> date --date='@1512681788' -> Thu Dec  7 22:23:08 CET 2017
13:15 < wumpus> aj: ok, I'll probably not manage to add authentication support to gh-merge.py before then
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18:27 < binarycat> .     
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18:34 < binarycat> I have a Bitcoin Core wallet.dat which I've had forever. Today, I made a fresh wallet.dat, created a receive address and went back to the original wallet.dat and transferred almost all of the Bitcoins to the new one, for the sake of being able to safely "claim" Bitcoin Gold/Cash/whatever without risking that the software just steals my Bitcoin instead of giving me other coins (and also to put the new wallet.dat in offline storage.... But the 
18:34 < binarycat> problem I now face is that the old (now almost empty) wallet.dat still contains my full transaction history with the internal labels I've entered. I don't want that info to "get out", obviously. How do I work around this? What's the solution?
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18:46 < phantomcircuit> binarycat, dump the private keys and load them into a new wallet
18:46 < sipa> #bitcoin
18:46 < phantomcircuit> oh right
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18:52 < binarycat> Can't chat in that stupid room.
18:52 < binarycat> Some idiot-head must have abused this VPN in there.
18:52 < binarycat> phantomcircuit: "Dump the private keys" how?
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19:41 < valval> hi, anyone able to assists me in setting up of bitcoin core for modification?
19:41 < cluelessperson> binarycat: I'm confused, if you simply don't want the labels to "get out", just delete them
19:41 < cluelessperson> or delete the file and keep the privat ekeys.
19:42 < valval> im trying to see if i can make any form of optimization and i'd like to possibly do this using an IDE. Netbeans doesnt seem to work well in terms of building because its constantly hanging due to lack of memory
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19:44 < sipa> valval: i think most people use simple text editors to develop
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19:45 < valval> is there any form of source code walkthrough?
19:45 < valval> like where i can start off to understand the structure of the codes
19:45 < valval> http://embedded-design-vic.blogspot.sg/2017/07/bitcoin-core-tutorial-and-source-code.html is this a good source?
19:56 < sipa> that looks like a very small random dubset of function
19:57 < sipa> i don't think there is much of a guide, and certainly no up to date one
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20:47 < spence> valval: do you know C++ pretty well?  I've modified the Core code before, but as a C++ noob it was pretty difficult.
21:05 < binarycat> cluelessperson: "Just" delete them? Manually, one by one?
21:06 < binarycat> cluelessperson: "or delete the file and keep the privat ekeys" <-- I really don't get what you mean by this.
21:09 < sipa> binarycat: not here
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21:10 < binarycat> sipa: What?
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21:11 < sipa> binarycat: this is a development channel, not support
21:11 < binarycat> It's an idle channel, just like every other place.
21:11 < binarycat> And you ALWAYS fucking tell me it's off-topic. Fuck off.
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21:12 < sipa> you're welcome
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21:45 < achow101> lol     
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22:25 < esotericnonsense> binarycat | Some idiot-head must have abused this VPN in there.
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22:25 < esotericnonsense> totally not that he's likely banned for being a royal arsehole. :>
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