--- Day changed Tue Dec 19 2017 00:03 -!- fanquake [~fanquake@unaffiliated/fanquake] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:04 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:08 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:10 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11 < fanquake> wumpus I think 11921 and 11936 can go in. The later had a utACK from theuni in the previous PR. 00:11 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:11 < wumpus> fanquake: thanks 00:12 < wumpus> as for 11921 I'd prefer cfields to take a look there first, this seems strange 00:13 < wumpus> could this be something like a shell change from openbsd 6.1 to 6.2? 00:13 -!- check_ [7aa04dd7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.160.77.215] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:13 < wumpus> I really need to upgrade my openbsd box, maybe I'll get around to it today 00:13 < fanquake> I'll checkout the 62 release notes 00:14 < wumpus> good idea 00:16 < fanquake> wumpus clang is now the default compiler there btw 00:16 < wumpus> whoa, they changed that in a minor release? 00:17 < fanquake> "The https://www.openbsd.org/i386.html and https://www.openbsd.org/amd64.html platforms have switched to using https://man.openbsd.org/clang-local.1 as the base system compiler." 00:17 < wumpus> phew, that might mean that the default compiler just works, as on freebsd, and we can remove all of that from the build guide 00:18 -!- check_ [7aa04dd7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.160.77.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/62fdf9b07087...483bb6725362 00:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3eb4d45 Varunram: [build] Warn that only libconsensus can be built without boost 00:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 483bb67 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11936: [build] Warn that only libconsensus can be built without Boost... 00:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11936: [build] Warn that only libconsensus can be built without Boost (master...libcon-boost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11936 00:20 < wumpus> or at least marked as pre-6.2 only 00:21 < fanquake> Possibly. My internet is currently too slow to load the entire changelog, so I'm still unsure about potential shell changes 00:22 -!- netpilot [~netpilot@c-73-136-253-236.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:32 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:32 -!- sipa [~pw@2001:19f0:ac01:2fb:5400:ff:fe5b:c3ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:39 < meshcollider> btw wumpus #11178 might be RTM as well 00:39 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11178 | Add iswitness parameter to decode- and fundrawtransaction RPCs by MeshCollider · Pull Request #11178 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 00:43 -!- sipa [~pw@2001:19f0:ac01:2fb:5400:ff:fe5b:c3ff] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:45 < wumpus> meshcollider: thanks, will take al ook 00:45 -!- Kozuch [~Kozuch@81.0.198.168] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:48 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:55 -!- azz_ [56624327@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.98.67.39] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/483bb6725362...fee0370fd6e5 00:55 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bbdbe80 MeshCollider: Add iswitness parameter to decode- and fundrawtransaction RPCs 00:55 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6f39ac0 MeshCollider: Add test for decoderawtransaction bool 00:55 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fee0370 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11178: Add iswitness parameter to decode- and fundrawtransaction RPCs... 00:55 -!- azz_ [56624327@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.98.67.39] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 00:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11178: Add iswitness parameter to decode- and fundrawtransaction RPCs (master...201708_rawtx_bool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11178 00:58 -!- nullptr| [~nullptr|@ip-94-113-103-134.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:59 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:00 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:01 -!- nullptr| [~nullptr|@ip-94-113-103-134.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:02 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #11943: contrib: fix typo in install_db4.sh help message (master...2017_12_db5_typo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11943 01:03 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:04 -!- Amuza [~Amuza@85.159.207.5] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:06 < wumpus> bah install_db4.sh is broken on openbsd 6.2 01:08 < fanquake> Broken more than that typo? 01:08 < wumpus> yes 01:08 < fanquake> :o I'll test it once you've pushed up some changes. 01:08 < wumpus> it also seems openbsd 6.2 has both clang and gcc installed by default? can that be true? 01:08 < wumpus> or is it just an artifact of upgrading 01:09 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 01:09 < wumpus> so c++ --version gives "OpenBSD clang version 4.0.0", g++ --version gives "g++ (GCC) 4.2.1 20070719", of course our build system defaults to the old g++ :( 01:10 < sipa> because 4.2.1 > 4.0.0 ? ;) 01:11 < wumpus> fanquake: this is the error https://0bin.net/paste/gXJbnpxQydrJy6lI#43oYkWABQwveQ0uC9lJ1U4A8IyoBjGDxgF9sBoesI5G 01:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/43 | vastly reduce unnecessary database writes by dooglus · Pull Request #43 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 01:11 < wumpus> sipa: LOL! I wouldn't be surprised 01:13 < fanquake> wumpus so looks like that is clang related? 01:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:14 < fanquake> wumpus might be able to pinch this https://github.com/narkoleptik/os-x-berkeleydb-patch 01:15 -!- whphhg [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15 < fanquake> I have to go, but will test any changes later tonight. 01:15 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00:454f:112b:9095:f0ea] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:16 -!- whphhg [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:17 < mrannanay> Freebsd 6.1 had clang as base compiler for just amd64, but 6.2 added i386 to the list. 01:18 < mrannanay> They're adding backend support, okay for a minor release I guess 01:20 -!- Balaji [9d320b44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.50.11.68] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:22 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:27 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00:454f:112b:9095:f0ea] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:27 -!- Balaji [9d320b44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.50.11.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44 -!- vicenteH [~user@195.235.96.150] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:48 -!- timothy [tredaelli@redhat/timothy] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:51 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:58 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:01 -!- Guest53560 [~cloud@121.0.29.200] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:01 -!- akopul [~akopulko@89.237.21.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:04 -!- Pasha [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:06 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:06 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:07 -!- Pasha is now known as Cory 02:09 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:16 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:19 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:21 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fee0370fd6e5...1808660c8d47 02:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce552b6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: fix typo in install_db4.sh help message... 02:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1808660 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11943: contrib: fix typo in install_db4.sh help message... 02:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11943: contrib: fix typo in install_db4.sh help message (master...2017_12_db5_typo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11943 02:40 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42 -!- niska [~niska@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47 -!- Guest53560 [~cloud@121.0.29.200] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:49 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:49 < wumpus> fanquake: I'm starting to think that the entire issue is due to install_db4.sh 02:50 < wumpus> mrannanay: I'm very happy they made the switch 02:51 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:51 -!- LeMiner2 is now known as LeMiner 02:52 -!- niska [~niska@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:53 < wumpus> not so much that clang is better than g++, but sticking with 4.2.1 due to licensing was unsustainable 02:55 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:57 < wumpus> openbsd can compile c++11 out of the box now! 02:57 < fanquake> ! 02:58 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:58 -!- LeMiner2 is now known as LeMiner 03:03 < wumpus> fanquake: looks like the darwin patch solves it 03:04 < fanquake> wumpus Great, will you PR the changes? 03:04 < wumpus> fanquake: fairly sure freebsd needs the patch too; is there any reason to not make it unconditional? 03:06 < fanquake> wumpus are you adding the patching into the install_db4 script? 03:06 < wumpus> yes; the install_db4 script already has that patching, it's just conditional on Darwin, I think we should always apply it 03:06 < wumpus> if it doesn't hurt for gcc/linux 03:08 < fanquake> wumpus I think that should be ok. Was looking to see if the reason for the osx conditional was mentioned in the original pr. 03:09 -!- nullptr| [~nullptr|@ip-94-113-103-134.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:09 < fanquake> I assume it was because the original patch was Xcode related, but it's actually a Clang issue, so shouldn't be osx specific. 03:10 -!- m8tion [~m8tion@81-65-53-254.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:12 < wumpus> grr, bitcoind doesn't build after that; lots of undefined references 03:12 < fanquake> I'll spin up a vm and have a look 03:13 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13 < wumpus> in db4. It might be that it picks the g++ too instead of clang 03:14 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:17 < wumpus> overriding it w/ CC=cc CXX=c++ results in a new error about atomics. I remember seeing this one on freebsd too. 03:18 < wumpus> bdb is such a headache 03:18 < fanquake> What new error are you seeing? 03:19 < wumpus> https://0bin.net/paste/zuFf2Fx5RZp+0sfr#JNP6i7vpbwkeC1+mYSAX7J-BSFBvFEGf2WO7r2g2cYW 03:19 < wumpus> "error: unknown type name 'atomic_flag'" 03:19 < fanquake> https://community.oracle.com/thread/3952592 03:20 < fanquake> Apparently it's a namespace collision with C++11 ? 03:21 < fanquake> We might be able to combine this with our other patch https://gist.github.com/LnL7/5153b251fd525fe15de69b67e63a6075 03:22 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22 < wumpus> yes that's the one 03:23 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:25 -!- wxss [~user@185.22.175.244] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:26 < wumpus> added it in, let's see 03:27 -!- nullptr| [~nullptr|@ip-94-113-103-134.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:28 < wumpus> oh no it conflicts with the other patch 03:28 < fanquake> :| 03:29 < fanquake> I guess it's just time to abandon bdb 03:29 < wumpus> so yea we'll have to manually combine it, probably, or maybe this is a replacement for the other patch, I don't know 03:30 < wumpus> let's see if *only* that patch works 03:30 < fanquake> Looking at the patches, combining should actually be pretty easy. The first patch is actually part of the second 03:30 < wumpus> good :) 03:32 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:37 < wumpus> that seems to have done that trick, thanks fanquake 03:38 < wumpus> I'll file a PR 03:38 < fanquake> wumpus cool. I'll test everything out once you've PR'd 03:38 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:38 < wumpus> going to see if I can fix the issue that contrib/install_db4.sh doesn't take X=Y arguments 03:39 < wumpus> probably some bash array-ism 03:39 < provoostenator> Does anyone have time to bless or find a problem with #11220? It already has bunch of utACK and concept ACKs. 03:39 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11220 | Check specific validation error in miner tests by Sjors · Pull Request #11220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 03:39 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:41 -!- BtcCoreedev [c61b5bbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.27.91.188] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:41 < BtcCoreedev> Hello 03:42 < wxss> make 03:42 < BtcCoreedev> Morning from USA 03:43 < BtcCoreedev> Is there anything Core developer planning to address the mempool issue ? 03:43 < wumpus> provoostenator: will take a look at it later 03:43 < provoostenator> wumpus: thanks! 03:44 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:48 -!- orus-cam [8d6cfdc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.108.253.195] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:50 -!- BtcCoreedev [c61b5bbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.27.91.188] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:54 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #11945: Improve BSD compatibility of contrib/install_db4.sh (master...2017_12_contrib_bsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11945 03:58 < wumpus> fanquake: ^^ 03:58 -!- jtimon [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01 -!- promag [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- davec [~davec@24.243.249.218] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:05 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:06 -!- dagurval [dagurval@hildring.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11220: Check specific validation error in miner tests (master...miner-test-check-specific-validation-error) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11220 04:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #11946: tests: Remove unused variable (firstAddrnServices) (master...firstAddrnServices) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11946 04:22 < wumpus> looks like rawtransactions.py is broken on master 04:23 < fanquake> I'm guessing by #11178 04:23 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11178 | Add iswitness parameter to decode- and fundrawtransaction RPCs by MeshCollider · Pull Request #11178 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 04:24 < fanquake> "NameError: name 'assert_raises_jsonrpc' is not defined" 04:25 < wumpus> yup that's it, filing PR now 04:25 < fanquake> beat me to it heh 04:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #11947: test: Fix rawtransactions test (master...2017_12_rawtransactions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11947 04:26 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:39 -!- Guest53560 [~cloud@121.0.29.200] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53 < provoostenator> wumpus: thans for merging! Any idea why Travis builds always (?) fail for your merge commits? 04:54 < wumpus> provoostenator: see #11947 04:54 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11947 | test: Fix rawtransactions test by laanwj · Pull Request #11947 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 04:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2971fd030f6e...797441ee995a 05:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4508519 Wladimir J. van der Laan: test: Fix rawtransactions test... 05:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 797441e MarcoFalke: Merge #11947: test: Fix rawtransactions test... 05:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #11947: test: Fix rawtransactions test (master...2017_12_rawtransactions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11947 05:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/797441ee995a...8049241e226c 05:14 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bdaed47 practicalswift: tests: Remove unused variable (firstAddrnServices) 05:15 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8049241 MarcoFalke: Merge #11946: tests: Remove unused variable (firstAddrnServices)... 05:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #11946: tests: Remove unused variable (firstAddrnServices) (master...firstAddrnServices) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11946 05:21 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:22 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:22 -!- promag [~promag@bl22-247-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 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[~YellowSph@95-37-194-52.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:01 -!- sanjeev [~sanjeev@118.185.49.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:07 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07 < provoostenator> So I managed to install QT Creator and I'm able to use to run bitcoin-qt and edit C++ files. However what I'm trying to do is edit one of the .ui files. Unfortunately the Design tab is greyed out, and I don't see these .ui files in the project. 07:08 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:12 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:16 < provoostenator> Dragging the files into the app helps. So I probably should have ignored item (5) here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-osx.md#using-qt-creator-as-ide 07:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8049241e226c...81c89e966e1e 07:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ecf9b25 Pierre Rochard: remove unused fNoncriticalErrors variable from CWalletDB::FindWalletTx 07:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 81c89e9 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11923: Wallet : remove unused fNoncriticalErrors variable from CWalletDB::FindWalletTx... 07:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11923: Wallet : remove unused fNoncriticalErrors variable from CWalletDB::FindWalletTx (master...2017-12-17-FindWalletTx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11923 07:18 -!- pkx2 [~pkx@unaffiliated/pkx] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:18 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:19 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:25 -!- pkx2 [~pkx@unaffiliated/pkx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26 -!- pkx2 [~pkx@unaffiliated/pkx] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:34 -!- alfa [uid11513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqflurfaqgzwnjok] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:36 -!- evk1979 [59b2eea4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.178.238.164] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:38 -!- evk1979 [59b2eea4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.178.238.164] has quit [Client Quit] 07:39 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:43 < provoostenator> Sorry for opening a can of worms in #11950 07:43 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11950 | Avoid generating UI elements from code · Issue #11950 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 07:47 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:47 -!- quantbot_ [~quantbot@38.101.106.141] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:49 -!- quantbot [~quantbot@cpe-74-73-145-69.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:49 < wumpus> provoostenator: you mean the html generation in 'show payment info'? that code is mostly inherited as-is from satoshi's wx client 07:50 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW 07:50 < provoostenator> Git blame said it was you, but maybe you just touched it. 07:50 < wumpus> provoostenator: I'm surprised no one addressed it before 07:50 < wumpus> well I copy/pasted the code 07:51 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51 < wumpus> I mean it works, maybe it doesn't look super sexy or is super readable code, but it was one of the better parts of his GUI code 07:51 < provoostenator> Great, I'll be able to remove "improved code written by Satoshi" to my bucket list. 07:51 < provoostenator> *from 07:52 < wumpus> also having one html document makes it easy to copy/paste the whole thing, which it wouldn't be if it's some huge qt form 07:52 < provoostenator> Does QT not allow extracting form partials into seperate files? 07:52 < wumpus> (which usually only allows copy/pasting field by field) 07:54 < wumpus> I mean if you can create something that looks better and is more usable to users, I'm all for it, but yeah just doing it because you don't like the code style is .. dunno 07:55 < wumpus> seems low prio to me at least 07:56 < provoostenator> The specific example I put in that issue is probbly one where I can make the stuff I'm building on top of it look better. 07:56 < provoostenator> I wouldn't necessarly want to refactor all of this everywhere. 07:57 < provoostenator> But I will probably complain if someone does this in a future PR :-) 07:57 < wumpus> but in high level I agree with you, it's better to specify the GUI stuff in XML than generate it in code where possible 07:57 < provoostenator> Generally though, I am indeed trying to see if I make the QT client just a little prettier. 07:57 < provoostenator> Often very small improvements can make huge difference in how it's perceived. 07:59 < provoostenator> Back when I was building apps, I found it useful to just follow these guidelines, and question anyone who deviated from them without a good reason: https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/overview/themes/ 07:59 < provoostenator> QT is different of course, but general principles described there still matter. 08:04 < wumpus> yea I think you can do worse than follow apple's UI guidelines 08:08 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:10 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/81c89e966e1e...cdd6bbf10a81 08:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3a3a9f9 Murch: Ignore old format estimation file 08:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cdd6bbf Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11273: Ignore old format estimation file... 08:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11273: Ignore old format estimation file (master...ignoreOldFeeEstimates) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11273 08:11 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:15 -!- Amuza [~Amuza@85.159.207.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt opened pull request #11951: Remove dead feeest-file read code for old versions (master...2017-12-dead-feeest-load) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11951 08:23 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:31 < Murch> laanwj, TheBlueMatt: Sorry for my lack of response on the PR, I just got the highlight here, I've been swamped at work and haven't been on Github at all. :( 08:32 < wumpus> Murch: no worries 08:33 < wumpus> I think your change was fine, there was no need to hold it up further, other people can do the rest of the work :) 08:33 < Murch> Thanks! 08:34 < wumpus> Murch: if you do have some time please review #11951 that BlueMatt just openend, it continues your work 08:34 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11951 | Remove dead feeest-file read code for old versions by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #11951 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 08:34 < Murch> @wumpus: Already did :) 08:34 < wumpus> ok! 08:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #11952: [qa] univalue: Bump subtree (master...Mf1712-univalueBump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11952 08:44 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@host-80-43-142-241.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 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#bitcoin-core-dev 12:14 -!- anon is now known as Guest25999 12:14 -!- Guest25999 [52b51011@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.181.16.17] has quit [Client Quit] 12:15 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:18 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cdd6bbf10a81...18a1bbad98bd 12:18 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1285312 John Newbery: [tests] fix flake8 warnings in node_network_limited.py 12:18 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dbfe294 John Newbery: [tests] define NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED in test framework 12:18 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2e02984 John Newbery: [tests] node_network_limited - remove race condition... 12:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #11867: Improve node network test (master...improve_node_network_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11867 12:28 -!- 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(www.adiirc.com)] 14:07 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqjwsckwpgwfxsgp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:08 -!- thedudeabides [32e8cdd6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.232.205.214] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:09 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:12 -!- ossifrage [~ossifrage@unaffiliated/ossifrage] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:13 -!- Fakeman [~ReaL@94.204.146.67] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:18 < luke-jr> [Thursday, December 14, 2017] [7:50:07 AM UTC] luke-jr: a complete UTXO scan with sweepprivkeys takes ~3mins on my machine (mainnet)… is there a nice way to show progress? <-- does it really? I'm seeing under 34 seconds… (although on 0.13 codebase) 14:30 -!- mrfrasha [~mrfrasha@66-188-250-34.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: mrfrasha] 14:30 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:36 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:36 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:40 < sipa> luke-jr: highly hardware dependent, i expect 14:41 < luke-jr> 6x though? 14:42 < sipa> yes, sure 14:42 < sipa> SSD vs spinning disk alone may do that 14:43 < sipa> and then add things like disk encryption, low-end vs high-end CPU, ... 14:43 -!- Fakeman [~ReaL@94.204.146.67] has quit [Quit: %yunik] 14:44 -!- asd [4e82bfa7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.130.191.167] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:44 -!- asd [4e82bfa7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.130.191.167] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 14:49 -!- pkx2 [~pkx@unaffiliated/pkx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: 34s? I have a couple of minutes on my relatively fast Intel Xeon SSD 14:50 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbkcaghxfuigyafo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:50 < jonasschnelli> Could the utxo per txout model slow down (wasn't in 0.13) 14:51 < sipa> oh, it certainly could 14:51 < sipa> i wouldn't expect a 6x slowdown from that 14:51 < sipa> but there would be some 14:56 < gmaxwell> the utxo set has grown a lot, are you comparing to current? 15:01 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has quit [] 15:01 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:01 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:02 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:03 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:04 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:05 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05 < gmaxwell> morcos: sdaftuar: do either of you have opinions about the idea of removing the two week mempool expiration and replacing it with 48 hours of showing up in the top 4m weight of txn? (and perhaps also coupling it with a stored expired txn list, so that it won't get readded to the mempool?) 15:06 < gmaxwell> by only looking at the top of the mempool we could expire things that aren't confirming MUCH faster... and this would eliminate the current bad interaction where expiration is keeping the relay fee from going up. 15:09 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:14 -!- bartbogdan [b97de205@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.125.226.5] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:15 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:18 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:20 -!- cheese_ [~Cheeseo@unaffiliated/cheeseo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:21 -!- RoyceX [~Cheeseo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cheeseo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23 -!- jb55 [~jb55@24.87.206.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:32 -!- bartbogdan [b97de205@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.125.226.5] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:34 < aj> gmaxwell: if we go back to fees varying so there's a lull over the weekend, don't you want to keep transactions that will confirm in the lull for the week they might need? 15:54 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00 -!- mrannanay [uid222022@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gsprbtpygskiwpgg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:03 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:13 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has quit [] 16:14 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:14 < promag> jonasschnelli: is it possible to know if a rescan is in progress? 16:16 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:17 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:22 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:22 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:23 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has quit [] 16:24 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:24 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:25 < midnightmagic> good heavens, lots of new sigs in the gitian.sigs repo. 16:26 < luke-jr> sipa: jonasschnelli: FWIW, my test had chainstate on a 5400 RPM drive with btrfs+compression (no encryption); i7-4771 CPU 16:26 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, expiration is keeping the relay fee from going up? 16:27 < luke-jr> short of the compression, I think that's about the worst-possible disk scenario (although it may be all cached in RAM..) 16:27 < phantomcircuit> iirc we dont remember expired transactions at all, i expected that to mean they just end up back in the mempool after a few hours 16:27 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:30 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:45 -!- DrBenway [~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:45 < DrBenway> hi folks, is the 2018 roadmap published anywhere? i can't seem to find it 16:46 -!- cloudrunner [d34b1edf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.75.30.223] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:46 < sipa> there is no roadmap 16:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] agsstaff opened pull request #11954: update (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11954 16:46 < DrBenway> is there some kind of plan for the future or are you guys just maintaining the current codebase and trying to keep it as is? 16:47 < sipa> many people have many plans for the future 16:47 < sipa> but bitcoin core is just an open source project 16:47 < DrBenway> and none of it is public? 16:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11954: update (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11954 16:47 < sipa> DrBenway: what is your roadmap? 16:47 < DrBenway> sipa: i dont have one. but im also not a project 16:47 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:47 < sipa> neither am i 16:48 < DrBenway> o_O 16:48 < DrBenway> friendly community 16:48 < sipa> i volunteer my time, and i'll gladly tell you what i'm working on or excited about 16:48 < sipa> but i can't tell people what they need to work on, or guarantee what they will prioritize 16:49 < sipa> that's up to them 16:49 < DrBenway> so what are you working on? 16:49 < jonasschnelli> promag: currently not possible... 16:50 < jonasschnelli> though adding a check in getwalletinfo would be trivial 16:50 < jonasschnelli> just test if you can reserve via the WalletRescanReserver 16:50 < sipa> DrBenway: i'm currently working on segwit wallet support in bitcoin core, reviewing many other changes, and longer term i'm working on a signature aggregation proposal and a few further out cryptographic constructions 16:50 < eck> what are you excited about? 16:51 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51 < DrBenway> is bitcoin core going ahead with segwit? there's been so much back and forth that im not sure anymore 16:51 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:52 < meshcollider> DrBenway: Segwit has been activated for months... you are probably getting confused with S2X which is definitely not going ahead, no 16:52 < DrBenway> so currently signatures are not stored with the block itself? or there's an extended block? 16:53 < sipa> DrBenway: segwit absolutely keeps all signatures in blocks 16:53 < meshcollider> Signatures are stored within the block yes 16:53 < sipa> they're just moved to another place, and hashed slightly differently 16:53 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53 < DrBenway> i thought the whole idea of segwit was that the signature would go in an extended block? (im not sure where that extended block ends up in the blcok chain) 16:53 < DrBenway> ok 16:53 < sipa> no 16:54 < sipa> the point is (1) signatures are not committed to by transaction ids (but still included in blocks) and (2) are discounted for the purposes of resource limits 16:54 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:54 < sipa> but if you download a block, it still has all the signatures 16:54 < sipa> it'll be invalid without them 16:54 < DrBenway> sure 16:55 < cfields> NicolasDorier: ping. transaction_tests/test_big_witness_transaction takes 20sec to sign the inputs on x86. I suspect it takes minutes on travis. Suggestions for reducing that without defeating the purpose of the test? 16:55 < DrBenway> and that was done as a mean of reducing memory in case that the signute is used several times within a single block? 16:55 < DrBenway> s/memory/data 16:55 < meshcollider> DrBenway: no, signatures can't be reused for different transactions 16:55 < sipa> DrBenway: https://segwit.org/ 16:57 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:58 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00 -!- Kozuch [~Kozuch@81.0.198.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:06 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-walxaysmcrlzdxmo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:09 < echeveria> GBT over ZMQ seems to be a win. 17:10 < promag> echeveria: GBT? 17:10 < meshcollider> getblocktemplate? 17:10 < echeveria> `getblocktemplate` 17:11 < meshcollider> those are used for very different things though? 17:11 -!- mds404 [9b40267d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.64.38.125] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:11 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11 < echeveria> not really. at the moment there's a load of suboptimal ways of getting work updates from Bitcoin Core, adding a GBT endpoint means you don't need to poll or do any roundtrips to RPC. 17:12 < echeveria> the status quo at the moment is using -blocknotify to trigger a RPC call, which involves spawning a shell, making a HTTP connection, and the RPC request time. 17:14 -!- DrBenway [~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14 -!- mds404 [9b40267d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.64.38.125] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 17:14 < promag> echeveria: you can use pubrawblock 17:14 < promag> ops, pubhashblock 17:16 < promag> I don't think it's a good idea to have a gbt notification 17:16 < echeveria> promag: that still needs a round trip. 17:16 < promag> echeveria: how would you define template_request of gbt? 17:17 < promag> what is the problem of the round trip? 17:18 < echeveria> template_request? 17:18 < promag> gbt argument 17:19 < sipa> promag: ? 17:19 < echeveria> promag: none of those arguments are necessary. 17:20 -!- cloudrunner [d34b1edf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.75.30.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24 < promag> not sure if a notification is the right thing 17:25 < promag> current notifications are things that "happened" where what you want is to pub a computation (a heavy one?) 17:25 < sipa> echeveria: you're saying to compare with -blocknotify... but you can use GBT over RPC, and use ZMQ notifications too 17:25 < sipa> i would certainly advise against using -blocknotify 17:25 < echeveria> by 'seems to be a win' I meant the code is written and running. 17:25 < promag> right, that's why I said to use pubhashblock 17:28 -!- sploot [60e6fddd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.230.253.221] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:29 < promag> echeveria: even if that was possible, you should keep the gbt thru rpc. don't rely only in zmq notifications. 17:30 < promag> for intance, with rpc you get errors 17:30 < echeveria> not seeing a scheduled ZMQ frame is also an error. 17:31 < sipa> ZMQ is unreliable 17:31 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31 < promag> I'm not talking about that errors, for instance, if the node crash, you will be sitting there waiting for notifications... 17:32 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:32 -!- some_ [40e758b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.231.88.185] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:33 < promag> with RPC you can measure the request duration, trigger something if above a certain value, etc it's much more expressive than zmq notifications 17:35 < promag> zmq notifications are cool to avoid polling or the nasty process spawn, but then use the existing interface 17:35 < promag> the roundtrip should not be a problem imo 17:39 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:40 -!- some_ [40e758b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.231.88.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:43 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] 17:44 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:44 < morcos> gmaxwell: what is the issue with expired transactions keeping the relay fee from going up? why do you want the relay fee to go up and how will it go up faster with your idea? 17:44 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:45 < morcos> at first glance it doesn't make much sense to me. for instance i just today placed some transactions that were 120 sat/byte. i'm assuming they'll get confirmed over christmas weekend. the whole point of longer estimates is people might be able to wait for the weekly cycle so the mempool should be big enough to handle that 17:45 < echeveria> promag: not receiving a scheduled message, or missing a sequence number clearly indicates that. 17:45 < morcos> on top of that, i think you want to be able to do CPFP and its nice to have the stuck transactions still in mempools 17:46 < gmaxwell> morcos: relay fee now appears to be unrealistically low. e.g. we're regularly wasting bandwidth on transactions that are not going to confirm before they expire. 17:46 < morcos> gmaxwell: ahh.. i think thats ok. 17:46 < promag> echeveria: not receiving a scheduled message - you mean you timeout when no notification arrives? 17:46 < gmaxwell> what I'm suggesting is that the only way transactions that aren't making it to the top of your mempool would expire is if they're evicted due to low fee. So they'd be there for CPFPing. 17:47 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:47 < echeveria> promag: yes. 17:47 < morcos> hopefully we wrote it up in the PR that did mempool limiting, but we were aware of that issue, but the amount of free relay that can be achieved that way is limited (and is not that much) 17:48 < morcos> gmaxwell: i'm confused. i thought you wanted to expire/evict/remove them if they haven't been in the top 4M weight for 48 hours? 17:48 < morcos> oh but then you want to make that the mempool min fee? 17:49 < gmaxwell> no, the other way around. I want to have a counter on each txn that counts roughly how long it's been in the top 4MB weight, and only expires once that goes over 48 hours. 17:49 < promag> echeveria: not the best approach though, worst case you would be 10min until you do something 17:49 < gmaxwell> because if it's in the top 4mb and not getting mined, then it's been softforked out. 17:49 < echeveria> promag: 5 seconds. 17:49 < morcos> ohhhh 17:50 < morcos> wow i misunderstood, ok, so you want to get rid of expiration, but need to solve for the unminable txs 17:50 < morcos> yeah that makes way more sense 17:50 < promag> you mean you gbt each 5 seconds? 17:50 < echeveria> yes. 17:50 < promag> so why do you need zmq? 17:50 < echeveria> this is not unexpected, ckpool does GBT every 100ms in some modes. 17:50 < gmaxwell> morcos: yes, I want to get rid of expiration but don't want the risk of your mempool getting filled up with high fee unminable coins. 17:51 < echeveria> promag: please try and consider what you're arguing. it's clearly ludicrous to poll GBT RPC every 5 seconds, the amount of work wasted would be colossal. 17:51 < gmaxwell> also for unmineable tx, two weeks is a horrific amount of time to keep them around anyways... 17:51 < echeveria> promag: pushing GBT on UpdateTip, and every 5 seconds is clearly different. 17:52 < promag> how is that less work? 17:52 < echeveria> there's no round trips, and I'm not sequestering cs_main every 100ms. 17:53 < promag> every 100ms or 5s? 17:53 < morcos> gmaxwell: it's an intersting idea, but i'm not sure how large the problem is that you're trying to address. at least with mempool expiration there is a cumbersome mechanism to replace a non-RBF tx 17:53 < echeveria> > ckpool does GBT every 100ms in some modes. 17:53 < promag> so in those modes with zmq there would be a zmq notification each 100ms? 17:54 < promag> I mean, even to pub the notification you have to acquire cs_main like gbt 17:54 < echeveria> ( poll RPC every 100ms | ZMQ on UpdateTip + every 5 seconds) two different things. 17:54 < morcos> without expiration, then you kind of have to hope it gets evicted, and then you have nodes with larger mempools actually having a worse picture of things b/c they dont' accept the replacement 17:54 < morcos> would make more sense in a full-rbf world 17:55 < gmaxwell> morcos: I'm not sure yet if 1s/vb is a feerate that will never confirm... but I do think we don't want minifee to be frequently below the never-confirm rate. 17:55 < aj> could just continue to expire non-rbf txes after a week? 17:56 < morcos> gmaxwell: i agree with that, except what we really want is the incremental rate to not be below that.. not just the mempool min fee, where the incremental rate is the floor for minrelay 17:56 < morcos> and the bump requirement for RBF and mempool min fee after eviction 17:56 < gmaxwell> Speaking of RBF, I've been thinking some of the the RBF pinning problem, and think we could solve it by having a flag set on a transaction that an unconfirmed spend of its outputs is only allowed in the mempool the resulting package feerate would be near-confirmation. 17:57 < morcos> so perhaps we want a way to set incremental fee... but i'm just not sure yet how to do that 17:58 < aj> gmaxwell: noticing you're seeing unmined transactions that you think seem valid might be a useful warning indicator of weird things going on (eg, it might mean your fee estimation is being based on bad data?) 17:58 < gmaxwell> RBF-pinning for those who don't know what I'm referring to is the issue where you make a moderate fee RBF payment with an intention of bidding up the RBF over the next couple days until it confirms... but then one of your payees manages their input-clutter by immediately creating a very low feerate 100kb transaction that aggregates up all their small inputs. 17:58 < morcos> i know people hate defaults... but arguably the best thing to do is just change the default incremental relay rate 17:59 < gmaxwell> The RBF pinning problem is then that the RBFer above can't RBF their transaction unless they also pay the incremental rate for the 100kb child. 17:59 < morcos> aj: yes, i wrote a MPAM (miner policy alignment meter) for Core, but Peter Todd had some esoteric complaints about it and i forgot it.. i forget a lot of things though 18:00 < gmaxwell> Which is quite expensive! 18:01 < promag> echeveria: right, but you can do that now 18:02 < gmaxwell> a user of ours who hit rbf-pinning hard was trying to suggest that we prohibit all spends of unconfirmed outputs, which is nuts... but perhaps something to opt-in where the outputs could only be spent by txn that would bump the feerate to near confirmation.. everyone could still CPFP... but no more major pinning problem. 18:02 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:03 < morcos> i think we need segfee for segregating the fee out of txid, so you can increase it without invalidating descendants 18:04 < aj> morcos: isn't that CPFP? 18:04 < gmaxwell> yea... I've thought abot that. 18:04 < gmaxwell> CPFP is inherently not that efficient. 18:05 < morcos> gmaxwell: one somewhat smart suggestion on those lines would be to have an online mode for Core where if the wallet expects to remain online, it doesn't bother broadcasting lower fee txs until later (but then i guess you'd stil have to resign if the parent changed) 18:05 < aj> gmaxwell: is this where you point to a wiki page from five years ago explaining how to do it efficiently? 18:05 < gmaxwell> morcos: yep, made the same observation myself, but it reuires the second party to be helpful at their own very slight expense. 18:07 < phantomcircuit> wait there's no way to trigger wallet rescan unless the private key is actually new 18:07 < phantomcircuit> lol 18:08 < morcos> i probably shouldn't be spitting out my stupid ideas here without thinking on them first, but we could imagine a more efficient CPFP via some softfork mechanism, where a future tx (without needing to spend prior txs outputs could pay for them) 18:08 < morcos> you could reduce the cost so barely over 32 bytes on the paying tx and could include as many paid for txs as you wanted 18:09 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:09 < morcos> which you broadcast in an extended tx format potentially, but hmmm... how do you know which ones go with it in the block perhaps by required ordering and then just the number of txs 18:09 < morcos> getting complicated and messy 18:10 < gmaxwell> Well these sighash no input things wouldn't invalidate the child but they are phenominally dangerous and we really wouldn't want to encourage their use outside of specialized cases. 18:10 < gmaxwell> (they have no replay protection of any form at all...) 18:11 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11 < aj> having the 100kB RBF-pinning tx use SIGHASH_NOINPUT could be made to work okay afaics 18:11 < aj> but augh 18:12 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:15 -!- sploot [60e6fddd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.230.253.221] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17 < echeveria> promag: yes I can, because I've written the patch. 18:19 < promag> echeveria: PR #? 18:19 < gmaxwell> aj: yes except you really can't safely do that, because the payer needs to know to be sure to NEVER pay to that pubkey again. 18:24 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43 -!- sanjeev [~sanjeev@103.196.79.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:46 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:48 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58 -!- promag [~promag@bl22-247-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:04 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 19:06 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:08 -!- bob___ [47592af0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.89.42.240] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:08 < bob___> hello 19:08 -!- ludo [56ed6a17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.237.106.23] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:09 -!- ludo is now known as Guest49262 19:09 < Guest49262> Bonjour 19:09 < bob___> having an issue with bitcoin core changing the transaction fee to a lower amount? 19:10 < bob___> can anyone help? 19:11 -!- Guest49262 [56ed6a17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.237.106.23] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13 -!- bob___ [47592af0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.89.42.240] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:14 -!- kikooo [52661392@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.102.19.146] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:15 < kikooo> yop 19:15 -!- kikooo [52661392@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.102.19.146] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:16 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:22 < meshcollider> bob___: try #bitcoin channel, this one is not for support 19:30 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42 < adiabat> did I hear sighash_noinput? I love that stuff! :) (but yes, I understand that it's a serious foot-cannon) 19:57 -!- atroxes [~atroxes@unaffiliated/atroxes] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:58 -!- atroxes [~atroxes@unaffiliated/atroxes] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:58 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00:454f:112b:9095:f0ea] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58 -!- Ge0rges [~Ge0rges@104.236.151.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01 -!- fanquake [~fanquake@unaffiliated/fanquake] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:03 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:03 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:03 -!- fanquake [~fanquake@unaffiliated/fanquake] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:04 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05 -!- zshlyk 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joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:57 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbkcaghxfuigyafo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:11 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:12 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:16 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:23 -!- anditto [~anditto@182.248.158.129] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:27 -!- kraeftig [~kraeftig@c-24-8-150-126.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:38 -!- anditto [~anditto@182.248.158.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38 -!- anditto [~anditto@zz2014411797B6F89E81.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:39 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:41 -!- alfa [uid11513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-winttpqgshlxwsjd] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:43 -!- anditto [~anditto@zz2014411797B6F89E81.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:50 -!- anditto [~anditto@182.248.158.129] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:54 -!- anditto [~anditto@182.248.158.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:58 -!- anditto [~anditto@zz2014411797B6F89E81.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:01 < fanquake> If everyone could refrain from being part of a secret society that'd be great. 23:02 -!- mrannanay [uid222022@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ohnhvgxtposoyolj] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:09 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@80.107.151.135] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:09 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@80.107.151.135] has quit [Changing host] 23:09 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:10 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fockkboy opened pull request #11958: Update README.md to let people know about (((Bilderberg))) and HIGH FEES! (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11958 23:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11958: Update README.md to let people know about (((Bilderberg))) and HIGH FEES! (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11958 23:11 < wumpus> sorry MJ12 doesn't take kindly on people trying to quit 23:11 < phantomcircuit> is there a reason there isn't a wallet rescan rpc separate from the import* functions? 23:12 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you haven't submitted yet. Bonus points if you make it handle multiwallet sanely (not scanning them one at a fking time!) 23:12 < fanquake> wumpus :o 23:12 < gmaxwell> double bonus if it lets you specify a blinking range (code from importmulti, I guess) 23:15 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: the reasoning behind that was always that it was unnecessary, because import should let you provide the key birthdates and thus it can determine what to scan for itself 23:15 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: if you need a loose rescan, something is usually wrong 23:15 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: so it's a diagnostic option for startup only 23:17 < phantomcircuit> yeah what's wrong is i used importprivkey with rescan false and the only way to fix it is to restart with -rescan but i dont want to restart 23:17 < sipa> phantomcircuit: you mean the rescanblockchain RPC? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet/rpcwallet.cpp#L3362 23:18 < gmaxwell> oh yea, that reasoning, I forgot about that. 23:18 < gmaxwell> crazy users rescanning for no reason. :( 23:18 < sipa> guys. we. have. an. RPC. for. that. 23:19 < phantomcircuit> oh 23:19 < phantomcircuit> neat 23:19 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19 < gmaxwell> is it hidden? 23:19 < wumpus> ok. Please don't ask about existing RPCs, apparently I've lost track :-) 23:19 < gmaxwell> speaking of hidden... we have some things that should get unhidden. 23:20 < gmaxwell> The logging thing, in particular which is the best damn rpc ever. 23:20 < echeveria> logging? 23:20 < wumpus> no, it's not hidden 23:20 < sipa> what about the increasebalance RPC? i think that one's pretty neat too 23:20 < wumpus> the only hidden one is 'resendwallettransactions' 23:20 -!- yoctopede [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:20 < wumpus> noooo sipa don't mention that one, it's only for secret society use 23:21 < eck> gentlemen save this for the bilderberg meeting, please 23:21 < gmaxwell> echeveria: there is an RPC to set the amount of logging detail. 23:21 < fanquake> Too late now. Trending on Reddit asap. 23:21 < gmaxwell> echeveria: which means you can shut off the chatty as heck leveldb stuff when it irritates you without restarting. :P 23:22 < echeveria> gmaxwell: that’s handy, my node takes a very long time to restart, and restarting tends to absolve problems I’d like to debug with -debug=net. 23:22 < Sentineo> the syntax is pretty easy, just do not forget to escape the " :) 23:22 < wumpus> logging was unhidden in #11626 23:22 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11626 | rpc: Make `logging` RPC public by laanwj · Pull Request #11626 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 23:22 < gmaxwell> blocksonly is also hidden. though I think the rational for hiding it has not been addressed. :( 23:22 < gmaxwell> woot. 23:23 < Sentineo> yep 15.1 has it in help 23:23 < echeveria> very, very large mempools take an extraordinary time to load (I understand why). 23:23 < gmaxwell> I'm sorry I've been on github less lately. 23:23 < gmaxwell> echeveria: huh? what are you talking about 23:23 < Sentineo> echeveria: my node when restarted fails to import the mempool saved anyway 23:23 < gmaxwell> echeveria: mempool restore is entirely non-invasive and in the background. 23:24 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00:454f:112b:9095:f0ea] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24 < echeveria> gmaxwell: yes, it’s very much not a problem, it’s just a reason that changing the debug level is a great feature to have. 23:25 -!- Amuza [~Amuza@85.159.207.5] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:25 < echeveria> if I want to debug=mempoolrej it needs to have the mempool.dat loaded :) 23:26 < Sentineo> having other stuff like turning on rpc/rest on the fly would be neat 23:27 < gmaxwell> Sentineo: gonna use the rpc to turn on RPC? 23:27 < Sentineo> did not put much thought into it apearantly gmaxwell :P 23:27 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:27 < wumpus> hahahahah yes that would be really neat 23:28 < Sentineo> but yeh, that would be really neat :D 23:28 < wumpus> non-causal RPC switching, powered by flux capacitor 23:28 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:29 -!- qrestlove [~qrestlove@2605:6000:eb4a:ef00::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:29 < Sentineo> the switch could be called "Delorien" :) 23:30 < Sentineo> delorean - sorry .. typo 23:30 < fanquake> gmaxwell if you're going to be on GH again soon, you might be interested in #11359 or 11630 23:30 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11359 | Add a pruning high water mark to reduce the frequency of pruning events by esotericnonsense · Pull Request #11359 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 23:31 -!- timothy [~tredaelli@redhat/timothy] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:31 < gmaxwell> I know, you could send messages via signals and morse code, killall -30 bitcoind ; sleep 1 ; killall -30 bitcoind .... 23:32 < gmaxwell> fanquake: OK. 23:32 -!- blackbaba [~blackbaba@137.59.252.217] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:32 < wumpus> ah yes the rumored kill -SHORTBEEP -LONGBEEP 23:32 < gmaxwell> half the reason I haven't been as active is that in the evening I'm using a computer without GH credentials on it, ... which ranks pretty highly for stupid reasons... 23:34 < wumpus> I understand trying to be careful with your gh credentials, but there's got to be a better way 23:36 < eck> perhaps called an ssh key 23:37 < phantomcircuit> eck, cant login to their website with ssh keys sir 23:37 < eck> i'll concede that point 23:37 < fanquake> wumpus does everyone inside the bitcoin org have 2FA turned on? 23:37 < echeveria> phantomcircuit: that’s what x forwarding is for. 23:38 < wumpus> fanquake: let's check, it was the case last ime I looked 23:38 < gmaxwell> this is my only host that I haven't been able to strip intel ME off of, so I'm generally trying to keep security critical things of it. 23:39 < wumpus> I have no intel devices left 23:39 < eck> what year is it from 23:40 < eck> i went through this exercise recently, only to learn that i am pretty much sol if i have any devices made in the last ten years 23:40 < wumpus> I hope I can get rid of the AMD ones too before a similar backdoor in AMD to show up 23:41 < Sentineo> what backdoor? 23:42 < wumpus> but intel's reaction to the whole ME debacle - instead of offering the option to disable it, try to make it even more difficult to disable it - was enough to dump them completely 23:42 < eck> too bad there are no credible aarch64 systems 23:43 < Sentineo> so I need to use abacus! 23:43 < wumpus> yes it's why I'm using AMD for the moment, waiting for ARM and eventually RISCV 23:43 < gmaxwell> eck: it's pretty easy to lobotomize ME out of most moderately new systems, thanks to MEcleaner 23:44 < gmaxwell> wumpus: I dunno if you saw, but the next gen of intel cpus will contain efuse based downgrade resistance for the me firmware. 23:44 < eck> i don't know much about mecleaner, but this doesn't help me use e.g. coreboot, does it? 23:45 < phantomcircuit> well that's just blatantly admitting it's a backdoor 23:45 < eck> that's the project i was looking at most recently 23:45 < gmaxwell> right now you can reflash with a spi programmer to downgrade me firmware (e.g. to undo a possible upgrade that disables the HAP bit) since the cpu has no external truth on what ME firmware is the most recent. 23:45 < wumpus> gmaxwell: yes I heard, that's what maded me so angry 23:45 < wumpus> why not give your customers the choice? 23:45 < gmaxwell> eck: coreboot alone isn't enough, e.g. you can run coreboot on a lenovo x230 but unless you run mecleaner it has the hidden second operating system still. 23:46 < eck> i have more recent hardware but since that is news to me, i'll take a second look anyway, thanks 23:47 < gmaxwell> coreboot is nice, but not as important as getting rid of ME. other than some ACPI handling stuff the bios is out of the picture once the OS is running. 23:47 < gmaxwell> ME = whole seperate quasi-pentium cpu that runs all the time in the background (even with computer suspended) and has access to everything. 23:48 < gmaxwell> separate meaning still inside the cpu package, however. 23:48 < eck> the whole point of coreboot from my pov is to know for sure that IME is disabled 23:48 < eck> otherwise how would you be sure? 23:48 -!- anditto [~anditto@zz2014411797B6F89E81.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [] 23:49 < gmaxwell> eck: because you physically rewrote the flash chip and took most of the me data out of it. 23:49 < gmaxwell> which is what me cleaner does. 23:49 < gmaxwell> until me cleaner that wasn't possible for coreboot to disable ME on most hardware that had ME, the issue is on most of those systems the system will shut down after 30 minutes if ME doesn't boot. 23:50 < eck> i will have to read more about ME and coreboot and mecleaner to comment 23:50 < eck> what you said makes sense though 23:50 < gmaxwell> so the coreboot instructions basically have you avoid rewriting the ME partition so the computer will keep working. 23:50 < Sentineo> so what are the implications of not removing it for a noob? :) 23:50 < gmaxwell> Sentineo: maybe nothing, or maybe intel and anyone who controls them or compromised them or found bugs in their code has full backdoor access to the computers running it. 23:51 < wumpus> there's a parallel OS running on your CPU, running a fairly insecure software stack, network connected 23:51 < wumpus> -> you can work out the rest of the details 23:51 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 23:51 < Sentineo> yeah ... 23:51 < wumpus> oh yes it happens to have ring -infinite access over anything else your CPU might be doing, so any access controls in your OS mean nothing 23:52 < eck> the assumption here though is that the me requires external flash memory to run, since it's some bloated c/c++ program, right? 23:52 < Sentineo> so you were refering to arm ... e.g. running stuff on rasberry pi sounds more secure than? or I got it wrong? 23:52 < eck> what if the ME was coded directly into the silicon? or is that not likely due to its complexity? 23:52 < gmaxwell> eck: the flash on current motherboards is ~32 MB in size in total. 23:53 < fanquake> Good thing there isn't a torrent of bugs found in ME :) 23:53 < gmaxwell> eck: it's not so much of a mystery now, it runs minix. people how have jtag access to it. 23:53 < wumpus> Sentineo: RPI is a bad example because it also has a proprietary core glued to the CPU; but something like i.mx6 which can run blobless would be more secure, everything else the same 23:53 < gmaxwell> you can also run arbritary code on it now and bypass the code signing, at least if you can write to the flash. 23:54 < eck> wild 23:54 < eck> and it's all undocumented, right? 23:54 < gmaxwell> I don't think anyone has targeted it with a compiler yet, its instruction set is non-standard. 23:54 < gmaxwell> it's a 486 with some pentium features added and some legacy features dropped. 23:54 < gmaxwell> eck: right. 23:55 < gmaxwell> but with jtag access people can reverse engineer things. 23:55 < eck> wait can it access the host os memory 23:55 < Sentineo> ah insane 23:55 < eck> what memory mode is it in 23:55 < Sentineo> so doing dice for privkeys and paper wallet does not sound that a bad idea now :D 23:56 < eck> i wonder how you would synchronize between the me processor and ring 0/-1 23:56 < gmaxwell> eck: presumably you use some kind of IO functionality to access the host memory, it's not direct mapped to the host memory. 23:56 < wumpus> it would have been fairly ok if they just allowed reprogramming it, targetting it with custom software from now on, from now on, but no, they had to clamp down on it more 23:56 < gmaxwell> which probably also avoids having to make it cache cohearent. 23:57 < eck> not that i (or anyone else) is running such code, but if there was synchronization between the kernel and some ME processor, surely you could tell from timing 23:58 < eck> i've written a bunch of ptrace stuff, and from userspace it's pretty obvious when you're being traced due to the clock slowdowns 23:58 < wumpus> and then, you're going to measure every single memory operation to catch an ME backdoor in the act? 23:58 < gmaxwell> heh 23:58 < eck> depends what the overhead is 23:59 < wumpus> I can't wait for such security theatre in operating systems 23:59 < gmaxwell> of course the problem is that all it needs to do is snoop your network, which it might do for free, then when triggered push a single write into kernel memory to open up a backdoor.