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01:04 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: agree re 13253
01:06 < wumpus> getting the 0.16.1 release out should probably be priority now
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01:12 < wumpus> moneyball: hahahahaha "double unicorn"
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01:17 < wumpus> moneyball: but good to know they're making progress. A really persistent one was jtimon's PR that I merged yesterday, #10757.
01:17 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10757 | RPC: Introduce getblockstats to plot things by jtimon · Pull Request #10757 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
01:25 < fanquake> wumpus there are still a couple unclean/complicated backports to do.
01:25 < fanquake> Wondering if the people that PR'd the changes to master want to handle the backporting?
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01:26 < fanquake> wumpus Also if you're happy with it, I think #13246 is ready. I've tested, and it's a good cleanup. 
01:26 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13246 | doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13246 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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01:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13253: [0.16] Further Backports (0.16...0-16-further-backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13253
01:37 < wumpus> fanquake: I think it's preferable if the people that PRed the changes to master do that, yes
01:37 < wumpus> at the very least they'd need to review it carefully
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01:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7f4db9a7c354...5c41b6008079
01:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9d4f942 Chun Kuan Lee: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md...
01:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5c41b60 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13246: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md...
01:46 < fanquake> wumpus I've added them to the "Blockers" in the High Prio list
01:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13246: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13246
01:46 < fanquake> I think we can just about untag that one for 0.15.2
01:48 < kallewoof> Is there a good link to the high prio list? I always have a hard time finding it and keep a tab of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+project%3Abitcoin%2Fbitcoin%2F8 open, but not sure that URL changes at some point.
01:48 < kallewoof> "bitcoin/bitcoin/8" doesn't seem particularly permanent.
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01:49 < wumpus> fanquake: you mean the GUI settings dialog crash? yes, probably, I don't think it's so likely that we'll do a 0.15.x release anyway
01:50 < wumpus> kallewoof: pretty much all github URLs are permanent (for some definitions of permanent at least)
01:50 < fanquake> wumpus yep, I'll untag it
01:50 < wumpus> fanquake: already did
01:50 < fanquake> :o     
01:51 < wumpus> kallewoof: '8' is the project ID which is not supposed to change
01:51 < fanquake> kallewoof I think https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 is your best bet for now
01:53 < kallewoof> OK, thanks
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02:12 < aj> kallewoof: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 ?
02:13 < aj> ah, helps if you don't get lost in scrollback
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02:17 < promag> wumpus: #13063
02:17 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13063 | Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance by promag · Pull Request #13063 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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02:27 < wumpus> apparently there's a new "checks" thing on github PRs?
02:28 < wumpus> promag: thanks
02:30 < fanquake> wumpus yes, not quite sure what that's for yet
02:30 < promag> also #13160 could have more feedback
02:30 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13160 | wallet: Unlock spent outputs by promag · Pull Request #13160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
02:30 < fanquake> I wonder if it's for the linter type things we are currently running on Travis
02:30 < promag> fanquake: I guess integrations must update first?
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02:32 < fanquake> promag Do you mean they will run before travis does?
02:34 < promag> fanquake: I mean apps (travis for instance) must update first to use checks
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02:34 < promag> or we must update .travis.yml?
02:35 < fanquake> promag ah ok. I'll have a read up https://blog.github.com/2018-05-07-introducing-checks-api/
02:35 < promag> https://help.github.com/articles/about-status-checks/#checks
02:36 < promag> but looks like a nice feature
02:37 < fanquake> Also https://blog.travis-ci.com/2018-05-07-announcing-support-for-github-checks-api-on-travis-ci-com
02:38 < fanquake> Also Also, if anyone wasn't aware https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/open-source-on-travis-ci-com
02:39 < wumpus> seems like a nice feature, if it can list the failed checks in the PR instead of having to dig into the travis log every time
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02:41 < wumpus> although having to look for 'apps' in a 'marketplace' seems kind of sily
02:42 < fanquake> heh     
02:42 < wumpus> "     
02:42 < wumpus> Organization owners and users with push access to a repository can create checks and statuses with GitHub's API. For more information, see "Checks" and "Statuses" in the GitHub Developer documentation."
02:47 < wumpus> so we could push *our own* statuses, funny. Though agree with promag it would be useful if this was integrated into, say, travis, to not have to run parallel checking infrastructure.
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02:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5c41b6008079...6378eef18f61
02:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 80b4910 João Barbosa: wallet: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance
02:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6378eef Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13063: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance...
02:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13063: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance (master...2018-04-wallet-sharedptr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13063
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03:04 < promag> wumpus: thanks, #13111 on high priority?
03:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13111 | [WIP] Add unloadwallet RPC by promag · Pull Request #13111 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:05 < wumpus> I think we should try to keep high-priority discussion in the meetings
03:06 < wumpus> that makes sure at least everyone has an idea of what is added. I'm okay with adding one inbetween when there is really a hurry, but this even has a [WIP] tag still
03:07 < wumpus> also I think high priority == 0.16.1 now
03:11 < promag> wumpus: when is 0.17 feature freeze?
03:13 < wumpus> #12624
03:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 | Release schedule for 0.17.0 · Issue #12624 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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03:59 < promag> tks     
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05:13 < fanquake> wumpus #13284 should be able to go in. Pretty trivial fix.
05:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13284 | gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input. by brandonrninefive · Pull Request #13284 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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05:30 < wumpus> fanquake: will look at it, thanks
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06:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6378eef18f61...a9b6957383a7
06:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c865ee1 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h...
06:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a9b6957 MarcoFalke: Merge #13314: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h...
06:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13314: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h (master...2018_05_freebsd_build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13314
06:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a9b6957383a7...536120ec39be
06:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 97c112d Ben Woosley: Declare TorReply parsing functions in torcontrol_tests...
06:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 536120e MarcoFalke: Merge #13291: test: Don't include torcontrol.cpp into the test file...
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06:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13291: test: Don't include torcontrol.cpp into the test file (master...tor-reply) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13291
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06:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/536120ec39be...f8be43413368
06:53 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5f3cbde Brandon Ruggles: Increased max width of amount field to prevent number overflow bug.
06:53 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8be434 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13284: gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input....
06:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13284: gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input. (master...ui_amount_overflow_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13284
06:56 < fanquake> jonasschnelli I probably should have tested on Windows, but I've almost had enough of VMs for the day
06:56 < fanquake> If Windows is broken somehow it'll be the odd one out 
06:58 < jonasschnelli> fanquake: heh!
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07:05 < wumpus> ideally it'd use the font size, instead of a fixed width
07:06 < wumpus> but an improvement is an improvement...
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07:07 < wumpus> (but there is a qt function to compute font extents, which we use in some places, if this ever comes up as issue again we should use that)
07:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] FeedTheWeb opened pull request #13315: remove ZMQ message limit (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13315
07:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f8be43413368...610f4dd719ad
07:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa865ef MarcoFalke: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race
07:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 610f4dd MarcoFalke: Merge #13304: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race...
07:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13304: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race (master...Mf1805-qaWalletRace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13304
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07:27 < jnewbery> moneyball, jimpo: thanks for continuing to chase Github!
07:27 < jnewbery> I also got an email from Ben at Github with another workaround in case people are still having issues: https://0bin.net/paste/4maKKIx04UweS5rA#EvAA3aPuNEb8fRr8x+csVRwfjjS5VCmbP5Mn7r3OGvz
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07:28 < jnewbery> append ?timeline_per_page=20 to the end of any PR URL
07:36 < wumpus> github has a way to restrict the number of posts per page? that's good to know
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09:40 < promag> jnewbery: #13111 begs for your review =)
09:40 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13111 | Add unloadwallet RPC by promag · Pull Request #13111 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:48 < jnewbery> promag: Of course I will, in good time. I've just reviewed #13100, and I don't think there's a huge rush to review all the load/unload wallet PRs in parallel
09:48 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add menu entry to open wallet by promag · Pull Request #13100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:48 < promag> jnewbery: what should come first? menu entries or unload?
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09:59 < jnewbery> I don't think it matters. I'm more concerned about not hogging reviewer/maintainer time.
09:59 < jnewbery> I got another update from Ben at Github: One more quick update, the performance improvement I mentioned also made it into production moments ago, so hopefully the URL argument workaround should be less-and-less necessary as well.
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10:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13317: [0.16.1] Remainig backports (0.16...Mf1805-016ForBackport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13317
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11:47 < promag> jnewbery: I prefer unloading first, then UI actions can be added at the same time for both load and unload
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11:52 < sipa> jimpo: in the raw data about bip 158, the second but last column is the number of entries in the basic filter
11:53 < sipa> is that the number of unique elements, or the total number? (i.e. does it count multiple identical scriptPubKeys once or multiple times?)
11:54 < jimpo> unique elements
11:54 < jimpo> if you want the raw data for the sub-filters (as being discussed on the mailing list), I have those too
11:55 < sipa> it seems the byte size is almost unbelievably close to the theoretical limit
11:55 < jimpo> yeah, 21 is the limit
11:56 < jimpo> I have a graph somewhere of average bitsize per element vs # of elements in a filter
11:56 < jimpo> it drops off very fast. at around 200 elements or so, I think it's already at 22 or 23 (need to double check that)
11:57 < sipa> jimpo: the limit is actually higher
11:58 < jimpo> oh? how's that?
11:58 < MarcoFalke> I cherry-picked the remaining backports here: #13317
11:58 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13317 | [0.16.1] Remainig backports by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:59 < MarcoFalke> I believe the conflicts were only due to refactoring (variable names changed) and one adjacent documentation change
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11:59 < sipa> jimpo: let's discuss after meeting
12:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu May 24 19:00:06 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
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12:00 < promag> hi     
12:00 < jimpo> hi     
12:00 < murch1> hello
12:00 < jcorgan> lurking
12:00 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
12:00 < achow101> hi     
12:01 < jonasschnelli> hi     
12:01 < wumpus> I guess the topic of priority today is 0.16.1
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12:01 < jamesob> hi     
12:01 < jnewbery> hello
12:01 < wumpus> #topic 0.16.1
12:02 < wumpus> there's a few backports left to do
12:02 < wumpus> or does #13317 include all of them?
12:02 < cfields> hi     
12:02 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13317 | [0.16.1] Remainig backports by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:02 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: I left out the qt one
12:02 < MarcoFalke> I think it changes translations. I might do it in a separate pull
12:03 < wumpus> I'll add that one to "high priority for review" at least
12:03 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: ok, thanks!
12:03 < wumpus> so please all review that PR ^^
12:04 < wumpus> especially the non-trivial backports
12:04 < MarcoFalke> With regard to the other high priority prs in the project: I think we can remove the one from BlueMatt for now
12:04 < jtimon> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12172 is a small thing, but it is a bugfix, perhaps it makes sense to backport it?
12:04 < MarcoFalke> And add next week when the rebase is done
12:05 < sipa> #12172
12:05 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12172 | Bugfix: RPC: savemempool: Dont save until LoadMempool() is finished by jtimon · Pull Request #12172 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:05 < wumpus> I think we should focus on 0.16.1 now, we'll get around to the other high priority stuff again next week
12:05 < MarcoFalke> jtimon: that lead to a ton of issues in our tests
12:05 < MarcoFalke> I'd prefer we didn't backport that one
12:06 < wumpus> I don't think it's terribly urgent to backport, maybe for 0.16.2
12:06 < jamesob> is #12431 worth a backport?
12:06 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12431 | Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes by jamesob · Pull Request #12431 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:06 < MarcoFalke> jamesob: What bug does it fix?
12:07 < jamesob> potentially incorrect behavior in waitforblockheight (and anything else relying on rpc/blockchain.cpp:latestblock)
12:07 < jtimon> MarcoFalke: ok, no hurry, good to know someone tried it, now I'm curious about the issues in the tests and I'll play with travis and the backport
12:07 < MarcoFalke> jamesob: waitforblockheight is a hidden tests-only rpc
12:07 < wumpus> potentially how bad?
12:07 < wumpus> oh     
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12:08 < jnewbery> jtimon: #12863
12:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12863 | mempool_persist.py failing in travis · Issue #12863 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:08 < jtimon> jnewbery: thanks
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12:09 < wumpus> other topics?
12:10 < sipa> i want to bring up #13298 briefly
12:10 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:10 < wumpus> anything else important for 0.16.1 that still needs to be done?
12:10 < sipa> (not for 0.16.1, to be clear)
12:11 < wumpus> (no problem, that was an orthogonal question)
12:11 < wumpus> #topic Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time
12:11 < sipa> i want to bring it up because it's a possibly significant effect on P2P transaction relay
12:11 < sipa> and it needs review beyond "does the code work"
12:12 < wumpus> I haven't had chance to look at it yet
12:12 < sipa> but it's also just local policy and not something that warrants a BIP imho
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12:12 < wumpus> agree
12:12 < sipa> maybe there's not much more to say about that, just hoping to get people to think about it a bit
12:13 < wumpus> #action look at PR 13298
12:13 < wumpus> it's three days old, so people are excused not having an opinion on it yet :-)
12:14 < sipa> end topic :)
12:14 < cfields> thanks for bringing it up, I'll have a look as well...
12:14 < wumpus> other topics?
12:14 < cfields> it'd be nice to have a tool to model that kind of change, though.
12:14 < provoostenator> Topic suggestion: GUI prune setting
12:15 < wumpus> cfields: makes sense, maybe propose it in the PR
12:15 < wumpus> #topic GUI prune setting (provoostenator)
12:15 < provoostenator> AKA #13043
12:15 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13043 | [qt] OptionsDialog: add prune setting by Sjors · Pull Request #13043 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:16 < jonasschnelli> Looks good,.. maybe orthogonal, but the prune settings should be in the intro...
12:16 < provoostenator> There's some confusion around whether using QT settings is appropriate for this, and I see three ways out.
12:16 < jonasschnelli> That's where it is probably most valuable
12:16 < provoostenator> 1. ignore the problem
12:17 < wumpus> I'm ok with most solutions, except writing to bitcoin.conf
12:17 < provoostenator> 2. go the writable config file route
12:17 < jonasschnelli> what wumpus sais
12:17 < kanzure> hi.     
12:17 < provoostenator> 3. interpret a lack of prune= setting differently
12:18 < jonasschnelli> Can't the GUI settings not just override what is already set?
12:18 < instagibbs> (3) is interesting 
12:18 < achow101> there currently are a few settings that are saved to qt settings that are shared between qt and bitcoind
12:18 < achow101> but bitcoind can't access
12:18 < provoostenator> If we go for (2) then I'd like to nominate #11082 for priority review 
12:18 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11082 | Add new bitcoin_rw.conf file that is used for settings modified by this software itself by luke-jr · Pull Request #11082 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:18 < jonasschnelli> If prune is set via confi/startip, disallow access in the GUI settings (only display it)
12:18 < achow101> so if we follow what has been done previously, then we ignore it
12:19 < wumpus> yes an additional writable config file would be fine
12:19 < jonasschnelli> Do we want four(!) levels of configuration?
12:19 < jimpo> What about augmenting the GUI to help you generate a default config file when none already exists?
12:19 < jonasschnelli> And eventually importing conf-files?
12:19 < wumpus> there have also been plans to add RPCs to change configuration settings, that'd require a similar thing, just don't write the -conf file it's just as likely to be in an read-only directory
12:20 < jonasschnelli> Would the rw_conf file be replacing the QSettings layer?
12:20 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: probably
12:20 < provoostenator> Right, I'd also like to get rid of QT settings completely and use a read-write (seperate) config file.
12:20 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: long term, at least
12:20 < jonasschnelli> That would be acceptable
12:20 < provoostenator> I wrote a migration away from QTSettings here: #12833
12:21 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12833 | [qt] move QSettings to bitcoin.conf where possible by Sjors · Pull Request #12833 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:21 < jonasschnelli> But please not conf<->startup-cli-params<->QTSettings<->level4_rw_conf
12:21 < wumpus> nice
12:21 < jonasschnelli> Thanks provoostenator for working on that!
12:21 < achow101> since this is a problem that effects multiple options, can we just ignore the problem for now and deal with them all together at the same time with a better solution?
12:21 < wumpus> yes storing some of the settings in a different place has been problematic 
12:21 < wumpus> (at least in the QSettings - because bitcoind can't get there)
12:22 < instagibbs> users could by and large be migrated over the rw unless they have a need for read-only
12:22 < instagibbs> for simplicity
12:22 < wumpus> the only thing that would idally be stored in the QSettings would be the data directory
12:22 < wumpus> well the bitcoin.conf is for human editing
12:22 < provoostenator> This migration would also work if it's done _after_ we add prune stuff to QTSettings.
12:22 < wumpus> the _rw is machine writable, all comments will be discarded etc
12:22 < instagibbs> ah hm
12:22 < jonasschnelli> yes     
12:22 < provoostenator> But if we can get the proper solution over with, that might be better. 
12:23 < jonasschnelli> For 12833 I'm also unsure about the term "Limit".
12:23 < wumpus> on the other hand, having things be dependent on each other is usually a bad idea, just draws out things
12:23 < jonasschnelli> Since this is not true
12:24 < provoostenator> jonasschnelli: what "Limit"?
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12:25 < jonasschnelli> provoostenator: 12833 currently tells user "Limit block storage to: " which is not true... though the tooptip hints towards the right handling.
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12:25 < wumpus> how is it not true?
12:25 < provoostenator> That's #13043
12:25 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13043 | [qt] OptionsDialog: add prune setting by Sjors · Pull Request #13043 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:26 < provoostenator> Which I fixed, but screenshot is outdated.
12:26 < provoostenator> It's now "Prune &amp;block storage to"
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12:26 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: AFAIK the 550MB assumption (if one sets 550) is still on 1MB blocks
12:26 < jonasschnelli> But 288min blocks & undos are enforced
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12:27 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: right, that's an issue for the command line help too though, I think?
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12:27 < jonasschnelli> but maybe we should fix that (if it turns out to be a problem) rathern then changing the word "limit" :)
12:27 < provoostenator> I'm not too worried about details of the text and minimum size. It's what we need to do about saving settings that seems to cause things to get stuck.
12:27 < jonasschnelli> Indeed
12:28 < wumpus> other topics?
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12:28 < jonasschnelli> I also hoped we could educate the user withing the GUI a bit more about pruning... but can be done later via extending the intro.cpp
12:29 < wumpus> right, let's focus on getting the functionality in first. I think educating the user is a good thing, but having the PR depend on all those things being worked out is going to put it way past 0.17 probably.
12:29 < jonasschnelli> I have a short topic: sipa raised concerns about the scantxoutset RPC command
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12:30 < jonasschnelli> (if that is something we want to discuss here)
12:30 < wumpus> so the feature freeze for 0.17 is 2018-07-16, less than two months away
12:31 < provoostenator> Also note that I don't think Mac shows the intro dialog.
12:31 < wumpus> #topic scantxoutset RPC command (jonasschnelli)
12:31 < jonasschnelli> provoostenator: it does at least for me
12:31 < wumpus> provoostenator: it should!
12:31 < jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12196#pullrequestreview-121570579
12:31 < provoostenator> jonasschnelli: ok, maybe I need to delete more stuff for it to appear. 
12:31 < jonasschnelli> Before continuing on #12196 we may want to discuss it it makes sense to have a scantxoutset command
12:31 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:32 < wumpus> you need to delete -whereever it stores the qsettings on Mac-
12:32 < wumpus> on UNIX you can pass the flag -resetguisettings but that's not easy on Mac I think
12:32 < jonasschnelli> (works on mac as well)
12:33 < wumpus> good :)
12:33 < provoostenator> Resetting gui settings didn't do it for me, but will debug some other time.
12:33 < achow101> jonasschnelli: what is the command supposed to do?
12:33 < jonasschnelli> The scan functionality allows utxo sweeping (rawsweeptransaction) with no block scanning
12:33 < jonasschnelli> You can pass in n pubkeys/addresses or even xpubs with a lookup window and it gives you back all unspents
12:33 < sipa> yeah i just mentioned that we preferably don't commit to having functionality that's hard to maintain in the future
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12:33 < jonasschnelli> And eben a rawsweeptransaction to a single address
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12:34 < sipa> fun.
12:34 < instagibbs> err what
12:34 < wumpus> services massacre
12:34 < cfields> irc unicorns...
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12:34 < cfields> let's move to slack!
12:34 < cfields> (/s)
12:35 < wumpus> :-(     
12:35  * jonasschnelli stabs cfields
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12:36 < sipa> back to topic?
12:36 < sipa> yeah i just mentioned that we preferably don't commit to having functionality that's hard to maintain in the future
12:36 < jonasschnelli> Yes. I think sipa's point is a valid point. Do we want to maintain something that may be incompatible with future utxo handling (or new model=
12:36 < provoostenator> Such functionality seems quite useful for watch-only stuff
12:36 < provoostenator> Without actually having to import things into a wallet.
12:36 < sipa> which isn't a problem if it were implemented on top of an optional index
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12:37 < jimpo> sipa: is the optional index a full scriptPubKey index?
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12:37 < provoostenator> But without caching of some sort (or an index?) I'm guessing it'd be very slow.
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12:37 < jimpo> or something less than that?
12:38 < jonasschnelli> sipa: what if we allow it for now an mention in the RN it may later require an optional index?
12:38 < sipa> yes, perhaps
12:38 < jonasschnelli> provoostenator: 30seconds for the whole index with an xpub & 1000 keys lookup window on a SSD/fastCPU machine
12:38 < jimpo> Or just have an explicit flag enabling the RPC now, even if it requires no additional index at present?
12:38 < jonasschnelli> *whole set
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12:39 < sipa> yeah, that seems fine
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12:39 < sipa> i do see the usefulness of scanning the UTXO set
12:39 < provoostenator> All the way back to the genesis block?
12:39 < jonasschnelli> jimpo: yes. But feels a bit after artificially holding back functions due to possible future work (which may never happen)
12:39 < sipa> provoostenator: it scans the UTXO set, not the blockchain
12:39 < wumpus> yes, scanning the utxo set would be incredibly useful
12:40 < wumpus> I've wanted this functionality since forever really
12:40 < provoostenator> Ah OK, it just gets unspends, not transaction history. Well that's still quite useful indeed.
12:40 < jonasschnelli> I wanted that in master before the fork-coins happend. :)
12:40 < wumpus> even if slow it's so much faster than scanning the entire chain
12:41 < wumpus> (without index)
12:41 < jonasschnelli> it would also allow importing wallets (no rescan required) if one don't care about the tx history
12:41 < wumpus> using importprunedfunds I guess?
12:42 < jonasschnelli> Yes..
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12:43 < jonasschnelli> conclusion? Hide behind an artificial block-setting or risk it will not maintainable over time?
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12:43 < jimpo> I think it's probably fine to risk it not being maintainable over time without an explicit index
12:44 < jonasschnelli> Yes. I would feel okay with that...
12:44 < jonasschnelli> Let me mention that risk in the RN and fix the PR in general /topic
12:44 < wumpus> so it will just become slower due to the linear scan?
12:44 < provoostenator> By "not being maintainable over time" do you mean if the UTXO set gets really large or is it a code maintenance things?
12:45 < jonasschnelli> from sipa:
12:45 < jonasschnelli> Overall, I'm unsure about this. This is functionality that is more easily provided by software that maintains a UTXO index by script, and is not possible in general if we'd move to a design like UHF (see mailinglist) or other UTXO avoidance techniques. Those are far away of course, and features like this can be made optional (like txindex is) if needed. I'm just generally unconvinced a full node is the best place to put
12:45 < jonasschnelli>  this.
12:45 < wumpus> or is this 'unmaintainable' as in 'will give wumpus more headaches'?
12:45 < jonasschnelli> no.. changes of the general model
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12:45 < sipa> wumpus: in a UHF model, without indexes, implementing a scan of the UTXO set requires going through the blockchain
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12:46 < sipa> (where we store hashes of UTXOs rather than the UTXOs themselves)
12:46 < instagibbs> sipa, searchable index has been tried a few times, and sadly dropped, something like 3 times
12:46 < wumpus> sipa: so that's a far future thing right?
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12:46 < instagibbs> not saying it's not the right way
12:46 < sipa> instagibbs: yes, my preference is that's implemented in other software
12:46 < jcorgan> i bet there's a dozen private implementations of tx/addr external indexing for xpub related things
12:47 < wumpus> I'd really like a way to scan UTXOs, my own appraoch was to stream the UTXO set over HTTP and do it client-side, but that ran into problems with the libevent http server :(
12:47 < jonasschnelli> Yes. But there is no fast access to the UTXO set from outside of our code-base IMO
12:47 < jcorgan> i do it with zmq notifications and the REST interface
12:47  * jonasschnelli curses zmq
12:47 < jcorgan> you're welcome :-)
12:47  * wumpus still wants to resurrect #7759 some day
12:48 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7759 | [WIP] rest: Stream entire utxo set by laanwj · Pull Request #7759 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:48 < achow101> I've taken to modifying gettxoutsetinfo whenever I need to scan the utxo set. takes like 20 minutes though to scan the whole thing
12:48 < jonasschnelli> interesting... almost forgotten
12:48 < provoostenator> In this future where "we store hashes of UTXOs rather than the UTXOs themselves", wouldn't there simply be an optional "index" with the UTXO, which this RPC method could then move to?
12:48 < jonasschnelli> achow101: only if you are in debug mode? right... takes 30secs here
12:48 < wumpus> provoostenator: yes... exactly... I say it's a problem/option for then
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12:49 < provoostenator> We'd have to make it clear that in the future the method would / might require an index.
12:49 < achow101> jonasschnelli: I think it was the operations I was doing, or my slow hdd
12:49 < wumpus> achow101: on ARM it's pretty slow (but still faster than scanning the whole chain!)
12:49 < sipa> it's the same issue as we had with txindex
12:49 < sipa> people build solution that assume txindex is always there... then we moved to a UTXO model
12:50 < sipa> and txindex became an inefficient optional thing
12:50 < wumpus> we can even deprecate the RPC then
12:50 < achow101> sipa: then it will be the same situation as getrawtransaction
12:50 < jimpo> with #13243, it should become less costly to build future indexes in the background...
12:50 < wumpus> I don't think we should reject useful, optional, functionality just because of some future data structure change
12:50 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13243 | Make reusable base class for auxiliary indices by jimpo · Pull Request #13243 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:50 < sipa> achow101: my concern is not the incompatibility
12:51 < sipa> achow101: my concern is people building an ecosystem that assumes it's always possible and cheap to do
12:51 < sipa> but okay, i agree with the points here
12:52 < wumpus> sipa: I agree with that in general, but I'm not sure here
12:52 < jonasschnelli> jimpo: great work!
12:52 < provoostenator> The fact that it takes 30 seconds is helpful in that case. :-)
12:52 < jcorgan> if we want to encourage people to treat bitcoind as the "ground truth", instead of baking up their own stuff, giving them easier access to the "database" would help
12:52 < sipa> jcorgan: yes... except that the ground truth in the future may not be the UTXO set
12:53 < provoostenator> jcorgan: that too, would be nice to be able to get easy to export dumps of useful things, though not should what format.
12:53 < jcorgan> sure, but anything can happen in the future
12:53 < wumpus> sure, but anything can happen in the future <- that
12:53 < jonasschnelli> jimpo: the question is, if we not want to build a base for an external indexing daemon (outside of the Core project)
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12:53 < wumpus> in any case this is hard to do out-of-process right now!
12:53 < wumpus> even harder than indexing
12:53 < jcorgan> i'd be happy with that, too, instead of making everyone else recreate it
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12:54 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: Indeed
12:54 < sipa> it's also less a concern to add optional indexes now with jimpo's background index work
12:54 < sipa> before, new indexes always required ugly hacks all over the validation code
12:54 < wumpus> nice!
12:54 < jimpo> My guess is there will be ongoing tension between adding RPC functionality and keeping the node requirements small unless there are more options for users
12:54 < jcorgan> yes     
12:54 < echeveria> it's a really bad idea to add an address index.
12:54 < provoostenator> Not too mention that you couldn't turn on/off txindex without reindexing everything.
12:54 < instagibbs> jimpo, an rpc call in every garage!
12:54 < jcorgan> i used to maintain the addrindex patch set and it got uglier and uglier over time
12:54 < echeveria> it means people will willyfully build insane systems. 
12:55 < jimpo> haha
12:55 < sipa> echeveria: yes :(
12:55 < jonasschnelli> echeveria: agree
12:55 < sipa> but i fear they'll do so anyway
12:55 < echeveria> rather than sane, scalable things that don't require an ever growing index. 
12:55 < jimpo> I tend to agree a better solution is to have a separate indexing service that doesn't do consensus but maintains the full chain state
12:55 < jonasschnelli> The question is, is it faster to index everything or to have Core running with 10k wallets
12:55 < jcorgan> +1 jimpo
12:55 < jimpo> and gets blocks via zmq
12:55 < sipa> decent wallet software shouldn't ever need to scan
12:56 < sipa> except for recovery
12:56 < jcorgan> i want to let bitcoind do the hard stuff (validation)
12:56 < jcorgan> but then i want to easily get at all the validated data
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12:56 < wumpus> maybe it never *needs* to, but there are legit situations in which it's useful as a tool
12:56 < sipa> sure!
12:58 < jonasschnelli> jimpo: fork Core, ripout the validation stuff and you have an indexing daemon you can connect to your core node over p2p
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12:58 < sipa> having a way to disable validation would also help with that :)
12:58 < sipa> anyway, this is turning into a philosophical discussion
12:58 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: why not use your indexing daemon?
12:58 < wumpus> yes, I think we're through the meeting
12:59 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: maybe. Not sure if we want another p2p library introduced
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12:59 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: not into bitcoin core, I mean as external thing
12:59 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:59 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu May 24 19:59:27 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:59 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.html
12:59 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.txt
12:59 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.log.html
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12:59 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: yes. But even there we may want to reuse the primitives...
13:00 < jonasschnelli> or maybe its good to use another library to find things we would not find using the same core code
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13:02 < jimpo> yeah, I think diversity at the P2P layer is healthy, using the same validation engine
13:02 < jimpo> and some can have features requiring additional indexes
13:02 < jimpo> speaking of which, what were you saying about the BIP 158 compression ratios, sipa?
13:03 < sipa> jimpo: sec
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13:04 < wumpus> jimpo: rust P2P layer? *ducks*
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13:04 < jimpo> of course
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13:04 < jimpo> :-)     
13:06 < sipa> jimpo: so say you have a set of N elements
13:06 < sipa> (after deduplication)
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13:06 < sipa> this means you have a list of N entries, each in range 0..2^20*N-1, whose order does not matter
13:07 < sipa> the number of combinations for that is (2^20*N)^N / N!
13:07 < sipa> (approximately; this formula ignores that there may be duplicates among those N, but that chance is low)
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13:08 < sipa> this means that information theoretically, you need at least log2((2^20*N)^N / N!) bits in total
13:08 < sipa> otherwise you couldn't express every combination
13:09 < sipa> for N=10000, that number is 214419 bits, or 21.4419 bits per element
13:10 < provoostenator> When I do "bitcoin-cli -config=/the/usual/place -datadir=/some/other/place getblockheight"  it creates a folder /some/other/place/wallets
13:10 < sipa> jimpo: a GCS implementation will use 21.5819 bits on average
13:11 < jimpo> oh, interesting
13:11 < provoostenator> Even if the RPC connection fails.
13:11 < jimpo> (damn it small graphs on Wolfram Alpha)
13:12 < sipa> jimpo: what i don't know is if there's isn't another probabilistic data structure that has a 1/2^P false postive rate which needs less information
13:12 < sipa> but at least any construction that follows from compressing a list of N elements in range 0...2^20*N will at least need 21.4419 
13:13 < jimpo> thanks for the explanation
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13:14 < sipa> but this is *really* good
13:14 < jimpo> yeah, seems GCS is doing very well
13:14 < sipa> less than 1% overhead above the theoretical minimum
13:15 < jimpo> I've been thinking a bit about tuning the P value. Kind of unfortunate that it's static.
13:15 < sipa> even at just 100 elements, GCS has less than 1% overhead
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13:18 < sipa> at a false positive rate of 1/2^10 it's close to 1.5% overhead
13:20 < sipa> gmaxwell and i were looking at whether a better custom entropy coder could do better than GCS, but then he pointed out to me that the limit isn't 20 bits per element, and that your numbers looked suspiciously close to the limit already
13:20 < jimpo> what is a custom entropy coder?
13:21 < sipa> not using golomb-rice coding but something custom that could get us closer to the theoretical limit
13:21 < sipa> it's certainly possible with a range coder
13:21 < sipa> though that would be complex and computationally expensive
13:22 < sipa> and now that it looks like golomb coding is so close to optimal already, it doesn't look worth looking into
13:22 < jimpo> out of curiosity, have you looked at PFOR/FastPFOR for integer sequence compression?
13:22 < sipa> i have never heard about those
13:22 < jimpo> I was experimenting with it yesterday for compression header values
13:23 < jimpo> and it gets pretty amazing results
13:25 < jimpo> if you take all off the versions in a 3,000 header range in a sequence, and do the same for timestamps, bits, and nonces, it compresses all of them together by ~90%
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13:25 < jimpo> can even compress sequences of nonces 75% on average
13:27 < echeveria> that seems kind of unlikely. 
13:29 < jimpo> yeah, that's what I thought. but I tried decompressing some of the ranges and it seems to work?
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13:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TronBlack opened pull request #13318: Remove legacy verification (master...Remove-legacy-verification) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13318
13:35 < echeveria> lol     
13:35 < echeveria> what on earth happened there. 30 second old pull request with 2 month old comments. 
13:36 < harding> echeveria: the comments are on the specific commits, not the PR itself.
13:36 < echeveria> ah, github presents that confusingly. 
13:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TronBlack closed pull request #13318: Remove legacy verification (master...Remove-legacy-verification) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13318
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13:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13319: gui: Backport bech32 checkbox (0.16...Mf1805-016ForBackportGui) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13319
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14:25 < phantomcircuit> i've got a reeeeally old wallet
14:25 < phantomcircuit> the result of getbalance doesn't match the sum of all amounts in listtransactions "*" 1000000
14:26 < phantomcircuit> seems like a bug
14:27 < sipa> any unconfirmed transactions/
14:28 < phantomcircuit> sipa, nope
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14:28 < phantomcircuit> possibly it's cause it's all the dust that someone was flooding a while ago?
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14:30 < sipa> you're calling getbalance, not getbalance "", right/
14:31 < sipa> jimpo: it seems PFOR assumes integers are sorted?
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14:32 < sipa> oh, or just the benchmark
14:35 < phantomcircuit> sipa, im running git master so the accounts stuff has been removed
14:35 < phantomcircuit> and im using the multi wallet support
14:35 < phantomcircuit> i guess i need to test this on stable
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14:41 < phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm listunspent matches getbalance of course
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14:50 < phantomcircuit> sipa, that wasn't it
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14:52 < phantomcircuit> the sum of the amounts field in listtransactions nominally should match getbalance i believe
14:53 < gmaxwell> coinjoins fuxor that no?
14:55 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, shouldn't i dont think
14:56 < gmaxwell> when you 'sum amounts' how are you handling fees?
14:56 < phantomcircuit> hmm maybe it's that let me check
14:58 < phantomcircuit> derp yeah that was it
14:58 < gmaxwell> Next customer!
14:59 < sipa> queue = rotl(queue, 1)
15:00  * echeveria sets mode +b phantomcircuit
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21:10 < fanquake> MarcoFalke Did you untag some PRs that had "Need Backport" tags? I'm sure there were more than 4 yesterday..
21:11 < fanquake> Yea, like #13192. If your untagging PRs, could you comment as to why they no-longer need backport?
21:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13192 | [tests] Fixed intermittent failure in p2p_sendheaders.py. by lmanners · Pull Request #13192 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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