--- Day changed Thu Jul 05 2018 00:04 -!- kallewoof_ [~quassel@fp96f94c66.tkyc515.ap.nuro.jp] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:05 -!- Urgo [~Urgo@cpe-107-15-142-254.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:05 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@109.160.62.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@109.160.62.107] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:06 -!- kallewoof [~kallewoof@240d:1a:759:6000:a7b1:451a:8874:e1ac] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 00:06 -!- kallewoof_ is now known as kallewoof 00:07 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12 < sipa> kallewoof: the order of arguments to the linker matters 00:13 < kallewoof> sipa: Yeah I know. I tried shuffling around, but it didn't help in this case. 00:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:18 < kallewoof> sipa: What's weird about it is, this literally works on all machines on my end. Linux and mac. Only travis is failing. Linkers are flakey beasts... 00:20 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@109.160.62.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23 -!- anthis [~anthis@31.207.58.211] has quit [] 00:43 < kallewoof> Failure happens on ubuntu < 17.10 and >= 16.04 apparently. *shakes head* So random. At least I have a machine to work with now. 00:57 < kallewoof> Figured it out. 01:10 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:12 -!- e4xit [~e4xit@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:15 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:17 -!- timothy [~tredaelli@redhat/timothy] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:36 -!- greenparhelia [uid127262@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awfiirdmnsmyjvlo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:38 -!- swap [31206cc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.32.108.194] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:39 < swap> hi where is the mining algo stored on the repo? thanks. 01:53 -!- promag_ [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:55 -!- swap [31206cc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.32.108.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 02:22 -!- Jmabsd 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timeout: 256 seconds] 04:16 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:24 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 04:24 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] AkioNak opened pull request #13598: fix bench/prevector.cpp (master...fix_bench_prevector) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13598 04:26 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b77c38e06c7f...40334c71d617 04:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 49d1f4c Chun Kuan Lee: Detect if char equals int8_t 04:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 40334c7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13580: build: Detect if char equals int8_t... 04:35 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:35 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13580: build: Detect if char equals int8_t (master...int8_t-char-is_same) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13580 04:36 -!- AaronvanW_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:53 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:53 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:57 -!- promag_ [~promag@bl6-24-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11 -!- zautomata [~zautomata@41.232.210.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14 -!- vicenteH` [~user@54.104.135.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read 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Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:17 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:20 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:21 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:36 -!- owowo [~ovovo@unaffiliated/ovovo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:57 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-68-230.mtel.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:57 -!- promag_ [~promag@bl22-247-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:07 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:24 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:26 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:29 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:38 -!- unholymachine [~quassel@2601:8c:c003:9f16:b8d8:4037:24cc:43d9] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:44 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-68-230.mtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:09 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/40334c71d617...028b0d963c99 08:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b6edb4f Andrew Chow: Inline Sign1 and SignN... 08:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0422beb Andrew Chow: Make SignatureData able to store signatures and scripts... 08:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ed94c8b Andrew Chow: Replace CombineSignatures with ProduceSignature... 08:19 -!- satwo [~textual@2602:306:378a:6fb0:79a7:ec8d:e0ae:2204] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13425: Moving final scriptSig construction from CombineSignatures to ProduceSignature (PSBT signer logic) (master...sigdata-partial-sigs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13425 08:30 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:33 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 9 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/028b0d963c99...3dc2dcfdfc0b 08:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f7c7f8e John Newbery: [tests] p2p_segwit: Fix flake8 warnings. 08:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 94a0134 John Newbery: [tests] p2p_segwit: standardise comments/docstrings. 08:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2af4e39 John Newbery: [tests] p2p_segwit: re-order function definitions.... 08:55 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13467: [Tests] Make p2p_segwit easier to debug (master...tidy_up_p2p_segwit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13467 08:56 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:58 -!- Dizzle [~dizzle@108.171.182.16] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:58 -!- HFRadical [~none@103.254.153.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3dc2dcfdfc0b...c9eb8d1c5503 09:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2dcd7b4 mruddy: logging: avoid nStart may be used uninitialized in AppInitMain warning 09:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c9eb8d1 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13577: logging: avoid nStart may be used uninitialized in AppInitMain warning... 09:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13577: logging: avoid nStart may be used uninitialized in AppInitMain warning (master...dev1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13577 09:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c9eb8d1c5503...062738cf69a2 09:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2f1a30c Johnson Lau: Fix MAX_STANDARD_TX_WEIGHT check... 09:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 062738c Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13096: [Policy] Fix MAX_STANDARD_TX_WEIGHT check... 09:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13096: [Policy] Fix MAX_STANDARD_TX_WEIGHT check (master...max_std_tx_weight) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13096 09:46 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@92.40.249.239.threembb.co.uk] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:51 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@130.67.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:52 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@188.29.164.227.threembb.co.uk] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:52 -!- Jmabsd2 [~jmabsd@92.40.249.239.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 10:11 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@188.29.164.227.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31 -!- JackH [~laptop@212.78.169.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/062738cf69a2...287e4edc2fd2 10:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 98b1813 Karl-Johan Alm: [build] Tune wildcards for LIBSECP256K1 target... 10:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 287e4ed Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12788: [build] Tune wildcards for LIBSECP256K1 target... 10:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12788: [build] Tune wildcards for LIBSECP256K1 target (master...build-tune-libsecp256k1-wildcards) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12788 10:43 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:44 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:47 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@vlan-153-aitos-70.comnet.bg] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:48 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:48 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.94.189.190] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:59 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.94.189.190] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 11:05 -!- WanderingXerus_ [3a130590@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.19.5.144] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:07 -!- timothy [~tredaelli@redhat/timothy] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:10 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:11 -!- WanderingXerus_ [3a130590@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.19.5.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39 -!- quer_ [~quer@unaffiliated/quer] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:42 < gmaxwell> petertodd: re: removing the minimum relay fee entirely.. I think to do that we'd need to eliminate time based mempool expiration, implement mempool sync, and probably reduce mempool sizes. 11:43 -!- quer [~quer@unaffiliated/quer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:43 < gmaxwell> petertodd: the issue is that if we just remove the limit, what will happen is that during quiet periods the limit will effectively become zero (or close enough to it) then a bunch of spam will flood in and get relayed, then expire before it gets mined. 11:44 < gmaxwell> so then a bunch of bandwidth will be wasted on things with no realistic chance of getting mined. 11:45 < gmaxwell> If expiration were gone, and we actively synced, the network would keep a constant queue, and then that would keep the rates from falling. ... and then maybe that would be enough. maybe. 11:46 < gmaxwell> ISTM that doing not what you said, and just lowering it 2x or 10x or whatever, would be a lot simpler. 11:52 < provoostenator> gmaxwell: how long is mempool expiration? It takes 1 day to mine a 300 MB mempool if the spammer uses SegWit, which I guess they wouldn't... 11:55 -!- clarkmoody [~clarkmood@47-218-248-206.bcstcmta04.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:57 < gmaxwell> provoostenator: it takes 1 day to mine a 300 MB if no more transactions are coming in! 11:59 < gmaxwell> it takes infinitely long to mine a 300 MB mempool if there is a flux of higher fee txn equal to the network capacity. 12:00 < gmaxwell> Expiration right now is two weeks. 12:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting 12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 5 19:00:13 2018 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 12:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 12:00 < provoostenator> Hi 12:00 < gmaxwell> Hi. 12:00 < wumpus> can someone else paste the name list I don't have it handy 12:00 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:01 < wumpus> proposed topics? 12:01 < provoostenator> Topic suggestion: alternating meeting time 12:01 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review 12:01 < provoostenator> And maybe topic suggestion: Min relay fee 12:01 < aj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator 12:02 < wumpus> looks like there is only one thing left: #12196 12:02 < cfields> hi 12:02 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:02 < wumpus> any suggestions? 12:03 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@91-155-114-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:03 < wumpus> reminder that the 0.17 feature freeze is 2018-07-16, so in roughly a week 12:03 < wumpus> #link 0.17 release schedule https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 12:03 < sipa> oh wow 12:03 < sipa> thanks for reminding us 12:03 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@91-155-114-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:03 < promag_> §shi 12:03 < wumpus> so if there are features that still need to make it in, we certainly have to make them high prio for review 12:04 < gmaxwell> sipa: Is #12196 'compatible' in what it matches with your new work on wallet scanning? I haven't looked at that PR for a while, but I recall that at one point it expected you to provide pubkeys as the thing you scan for. 12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:04 < aj> wumpus: #13547 or #12458 would be nice to have for 0.17, as would #13072 (though that needs a rebase now) 12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13547 | Make signrawtransaction* give an error when amount is needed but missing by ajtowns · Pull Request #13547 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13072 | Update createmultisig RPC to support segwit by ajtowns · Pull Request #13072 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:04 < provoostenator> I'd like to get #11658 12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12458 | Enforce that amount is provided for signrawtransaction prevtxs by Empact · Pull Request #12458 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11658 | During IBD, when doing pruning, prune 10% extra to avoid pruning again soon after by luke-jr · Pull Request #11658 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:04 < wumpus> gmaxwell: the xpub stuff was removed for that reason 12:04 < sipa> gmaxwell: yes, discussed in previous meeting 12:04 < gmaxwell> sipa: Thanks! 12:04 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@91-155-114-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04 < wumpus> so that when it gets added it's compatible with sipa's proposal 12:05 < sipa> i'm almost done with an implementation for "output descriptors" which we'll just be able to plug into scantxoutset 12:05 < wumpus> nice! 12:05 < sipa> i'd very much like to see PSBT in 0.17 12:05 < wumpus> aj: ok, thanks 12:05 < wumpus> me too 12:05 < wumpus> I'll add that to high priority 12:06 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:06 < achow101> wumpus: #13557 for high prio please (psbt) 12:06 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13557 | BIP 174 PSBT Serializations and RPCs by achow101 · Pull Request #13557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:06 < gmaxwell> +1 12:06 < nmnkgl> #13298 12:06 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:07 < wumpus> achow101: done 12:07 < nmnkgl> This is probably for high prio. 12:07 < wumpus> so does aeveryone agree with the PRs that aj proposes? 12:07 < wumpus> nmnkgl: I think that needs a lot of discussion still 12:07 < wumpus> nmnkgl: there's some security worries 12:08 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@80.211.91.70] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:08 < wumpus> nmnkgl: agree it's important, but not something to rush for 0.17 12:08 < wumpus> though if other people think so I'm happy to concede 12:08 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@80.211.91.70] has quit [Client Quit] 12:08 < sipa> i think sdaftuar and nmnkgl have worked it out pretty much 12:09 < gmaxwell> I think that 13298 is basically done? no? 12:09 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:09 < nmnkgl> I think it is. 12:09 < wumpus> ok 12:09 < gmaxwell> I'm always happy to see stuff like that get out sooner rather than later, since it'll take months for its effects on the network to be observed. 12:09 < wumpus> adding it for review then 12:09 -!- r-f [~rafaltest@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:10 < sipa> nmnkgl: rebase it though 12:10 < Randolf> Hello. 12:11 < r-f> hello. any chance for #13414 gitlab support, it's like 2 screens of python only (plus comments) 12:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13414 | Support gitlab API in github-merge.py by rfree-d · Pull Request #13414 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:13 -!- sakalli [~sakalli@80.211.91.70] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:13 < wumpus> r-f: yes, makes sense, but not relevant to 0.17 I think 12:13 < sipa> yeah, that seems independent of releases 12:13 < wumpus> ok added al the PRs mentioned by aj too 12:14 < wumpus> that means he now has two things on the high priority list though 12:14 < wumpus> sipa: right 12:14 < sipa> i'll do an effort to review all of them 12:14 < sipa> (so ack from me on that) 12:14 < wumpus> ok :) 12:15 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 12:15 < wumpus> #topic Alternating meeting time 12:15 < wumpus> (provoostenator) 12:15 < provoostenator> My suggestino would be something trivial, e.g. alternate by 12 hours every week 12:16 < provoostenator> e.g. 9:00 and 19:00 UTC 12:16 < provoostenator> (uhh, 7:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC) 12:16 < wumpus> sgtm 12:17 < provoostenator> With the day such that it is thursday morning Asia 12:17 < sipa> 7 UTC is pretty bad for eastcoast, though any time will hurt someone 12:17 < aj> thursday evening asia? 12:17 < provoostenator> Sorry, yes, what aj says. 12:18 < aj> (it's friday morning australia/asia now, 700 utc thursday is thursday afternoon) 12:18 < wumpus> sipa: yes, it would be alternatingly bad for asia and eastcoast then 12:18 < achow101> I tend to nack alternating meeting times as that will confuse people and result in probably less attendance as people either forget or get the meeting time switched 12:18 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@104.137.194.255] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:19 < gmaxwell> unfortunately there is no alternating scheme where a large group of regulars aren't impacted. 12:19 < luke-jr> sipa: depends on who would otherwise come 12:19 < achow101> 7 UTC is bad for americas in general 12:20 < sipa> midnight westcoast, 3am eastcoast 12:20 < cfields> I'm ok with awkward east-coast times, but I assume I'm in the minority 12:20 < wumpus> the problem is that the people in favor of the time will likely not be here now 12:21 < wumpus> it's unfair :-) 12:21 < phantomcircuit> probably just need a list of everybody who is likely to attend and their timezone to figure this one out 12:21 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, lul 12:21 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it's bad regardless. 12:21 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:21 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21 < clarkmoody> Is there a way to have an Asia meeting prior to the Europe/USA meeting and review minutes prior to this one? 12:21 < gmaxwell> sdaftuar: morcos: I'm guessing you're not going to be showing up between 3am and 4am. 12:21 < gmaxwell> :P 12:21 < phantomcircuit> i more meant for figuring out the time rather than doing an alternating schedule 12:21 < aj> a 3-phase cycle of 8 hours ought to make everyone able to attend 2 of 3 meetings :-/ 12:21 < wumpus> we're getting kicked out here 12:22 < wumpus> can someone else take the chair please 12:22 < sipa> endmeeting and i'll start a new one 12:22 < wumpus> #endmeeting 12:22 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 5 19:22:21 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 12:22 < lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.00.html 12:22 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.00.txt 12:22 < lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.00.log.html 12:22 < sipa> #startmeeting 12:22 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 5 19:22:24 2018 UTC. The chair is sipa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 12:22 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 12:22 < sipa> The meeting is dead. Long live the meeting. 12:22 < cfields> heh, mutiny is afoot 12:23 < sipa> what would an 8-hour rotation thing look like? 12:23 < sipa> 3:00, 11:00, 19:00 UTC 12:23 -!- Fearful [~fear@unaffiliated/warlord] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24 < sipa> it's probably too confusing... 12:24 < gmaxwell> probably rather than discussing this here someone should go make some proposals (including times in common timezones). 12:24 < cfields> those annoying doodle availability polls handle this really well. 12:24 < sipa> cfields just volunteered? :) 12:25 < cfields> sipa: sure, I'll take a crack at it. 12:25 < gmaxwell> that would be good data. 12:25 < cfields> as much as people move around, we could potentially re-vote each week and just have a dynamic time-slot... 12:25 < gmaxwell> ugh 12:25 < cfields> dunno if that'd be too chaotic 12:25 < sipa> yes. 12:25 < gmaxwell> I'd never remember. 12:25 < achow101> way too confusing 12:26 < sipa> i already miss meetings when i'm traveling 12:26 < cfields> k, fair enough. Will keep it simple. 12:26 < achow101> I already miss meetings when not traveling 12:26 < sipa> any other topics? 12:27 < sipa> #topic Min relay fee (provoostenator) 12:27 < gmaxwell> Someone was suggesting minrelay fee. There was a conversation on twitter I was commenting about. 12:27 < gmaxwell> that. 12:28 < booyah> vote on-chain for the time by donating to one of 24 addresses \o/ 12:28 < sipa> good idea 12:28 * sipa creates 24 addresses! 12:29 < gmaxwell> I'm not sure how much there is to say, really our infrastructure is setup to have a minimum. The amount of relay-spam per $ tends to infinity as the fee goes to zero. 12:29 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: I think the idea was that mempool size limits would effectively limit the amount and set an automatic min relay fee based on demand 12:29 < sipa> min-relay-fee has limited impact, because if tx rate goes up as a result, dynamic feerate kicks in 12:29 < gmaxwell> I admit that I kinda want to decrease it just to get people to stop thinking "1" is special. 12:30 < sipa> but min incremental fee isn't 12:30 < sipa> that's a fundamental relay cost metric 12:30 < gmaxwell> sipa: yes, though not when the mempool limits are too large. 12:30 < gmaxwell> The last time I saw a non-zero automatic min relay fee was months ago, IIRC. 12:31 < gmaxwell> lack of mempool sync also exacerbates this... even if there is enough data to fill, any given node won't have been online long enough to have it. 12:31 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:31 < aj> gmaxwell: going from 1 to 0.5 or 0.1 would be nice, i've seen suggestions it doesn't work right in the code somewhere though? 12:32 < gmaxwell> aj: those suggestions were confused. 12:32 < gmaxwell> it's fine. 12:32 < gmaxwell> units in bitcoin are in sat per 1000 bytes... 12:32 < booyah> 0.5 sat/byte? then everyone will assume thisis still the magic 1, but halved "because segwit" :) 12:32 < gmaxwell> the "1s/b" thing is something varrious websites came up with. 12:33 < aj> yeah, my node's been set at 50s/kB for a while, but everything it connects to is 1000s/kB so it doesn't do much 12:33 < gmaxwell> aj: and even if the units internally were an issue, it would be trivial to go around and rescale them. 12:33 < sipa> we internally represent everything as sat/kB 12:34 < booyah> fun fact, there are wallet like Mycelium that sometimes misscalculate and when preparing 1S/B tx, end up with 0.97.. S/B actuall tx and can not broadcast it currently 12:34 < achow101> booyah: really? they should fix that 12:34 < gmaxwell> booyah: How the heck do they do that? 12:34 < aj> yeah, xapo had a bug where the sigs were slightly bigger than estimated, and 1s/B target ended up at 0.9something s/B and wouldn't propogate 12:34 < gmaxwell> ... 12:35 < gmaxwell> ah, they have the wrong number for the worst case sig size. 12:35 < booyah> gmaxwell: achow101 dunno why, just seen it happen. AFAIR it eventually worked out when manually broadcasting from core after really long time 12:35 < aj> yep 12:35 < achow101> gmaxwell: sigs larger than expected probably. I had this problem once with coin selection simulations 12:35 < luke-jr> not sure that's something we can fix for them 12:35 < gmaxwell> they probably just took the size of the first sig they saw, rather than using the actual worst case. 12:35 < luke-jr> if it was 0.5 s/B, they'd end up with 0.49 12:35 < gmaxwell> yea, nothing we do will fix that, I was just curious. :P 12:36 < aj> https://www.blockchain.com/en/btc/tx/7f6d969774a6806ed136f892ad3ae8a32ba1dd55378942a00d117ca2837431b1 12:37 < aj> having a backlog of fees so the target isn't also the minimum would fix it :) 12:37 < aj> backlog of txes i mean 12:37 < gmaxwell> In any case, I don't see any harm in halving it. it would probably be prudent, esp as the bitcoin price has stably been something like 6x higher than the ATH at the time the current value was set. 12:37 < booyah> gmaxwell: people whill think it is halved "due to segwit, hurrr" 12:38 < booyah> 0.4 or 0.6 "fixes" that, if you care for it 12:38 < gmaxwell> booyah: oh well, can't cure stupid. :P 12:38 < luke-jr> IMO, unless we're going to aim for a minrelayfee-less design, it's a mostly harmless opportunity to let users campaign to have other users change the setting instead of using centrally-planned defaults; and if the default is changed, it'd be best to let some user PR it instead of a regular dev 12:38 < booyah> already there is confusing is it s/VB or s/B 12:38 < sipa> luke-jr: it reduces compact block relay efficiency though 12:38 < achow101> booyah: everything in core is s/vb IIRC 12:38 < sipa> node operators generally have an incentive to pick the same values as miners 12:39 < booyah> and above you said "sat/kB" :P see, everyone is confused about this 12:39 < luke-jr> sipa: vice-versa; miners have an incentive to pick the same as users 12:39 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: Trying to make things work minrelayfeeless is probably not worsth the effort. 12:39 < sipa> 1 sat/vB is already very low 12:39 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: I tend to agree 12:39 < sipa> (my personal opinion) 12:39 < gmaxwell> There is a bunch of stupid behavior that having a low but non-zero minimum avoids. 12:40 < sipa> booyah: fees are always with vbytes, i don't mention the "v" 12:41 < gmaxwell> I think at least half the benefit of decreasing it would be just shaking this idea that 1 is special. :P 12:41 < aj> sipa: in dollar terms, median fee rate was lower prior to about july 2016 (2c/tx versus 10c/tx) per https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transaction_fee.html#log fwiw 12:41 < luke-jr> anyway, UASF showed that users will take action when they need to; I think encouraging such user-driven action would be a good thing 12:41 < gmaxwell> but also because the mempool is frequently empty now. Some more consolation might be encouraged at lower feerates. 12:41 < booyah> as an user, I can confirm it would fix that idea. (though 0.4 might be better) 12:41 < luke-jr> especially when the side effects of disagreement are harmless 12:42 < gmaxwell> aj: keep in mind that segwit signnificantly reduced transaction vsizes for users that use it. 12:42 < aj> gmaxwell: this chart is per transaction, not per size aiui 12:42 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: I don't think there is 'need' here at all. 12:42 < sipa> so what are we discussing here? 12:42 < aj> gmaxwell: (i haven't checked the numbers myself) 12:43 < gmaxwell> aj: well then that charts useless, because e.g. it would say fees went up when users simply started batching instead of behaving stupidly. 12:43 < aj> gmaxwell: sure 12:43 < sipa> my personal opinion is that it's fine to encourage people to look into this and choose their own minima, but there's really not a big deal 12:43 < gmaxwell> sipa: dunno. people noticing the mempool frequently being near empty, suggested lowering the fee. PT suggested doing nothing unless eliminating it entirely, and I think that it would be a waste of time to try to do that. 12:43 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: I agree; the need however is not common, so encouraging users to act when only desire rather than need may be good 12:43 < aj> sipa: without nodes actively using min fee rate to choose who to peer with, user choice seems pointless? 12:44 < luke-jr> aj: that assumes >7/8 won't change it 12:44 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 12:44 < gmaxwell> and since the bitcoin price has consistently been up a lot compared to in the past, even considering the segwit offset, it didn't seem unreasonable to me to lower it some. 12:44 < sipa> okay 12:45 < sipa> someone suggest something and create a PR? 12:46 < gmaxwell> K. 12:46 < sipa> °C. 12:46 < Varunram> lol 12:46 < sipa> any other topics? 12:46 < gmaxwell> I'll PR doing something around halving it. (maybe I'll take booyah's 60% suggestion, I'll research what bitcoin price was when it got set where it was, and factor in segwit, yadda yadda) 12:48 -!- Fearful [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:48 -!- Fearful is now known as Guest20586 12:49 < sipa> going once 12:49 < achow101> *crickets* 12:49 < r-f> ~.~.~.~. 12:50 -!- r-f [~rafaltest@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:50 < sipa> going twice 12:51 < sipa> #endmeeting 12:51 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 5 19:51:21 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 12:51 < lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.22.html 12:51 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.22.txt 12:51 < lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-05-19.22.log.html 12:52 < aj> fwiw UTC: 03/11/19 -> Sydney: 13/21/05, Tokyo: 12/20/04, India: 0830/1630/0030, Europe 05/13/21, NYC 23/07/15, LAX 20/04/12 (nb: northern-hemisphere daylight savings) 12:53 < provoostenator> (back, had to leave for physical reasons) 12:56 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:01 -!- promag_ [~promag@bl22-247-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02 < provoostenator> minrelay fee has been 1 for a long time so in a way it _is_ special. In particular if the wallet also allows lower values, users might end up with stuck transactions because none of their peers relay them. 13:02 < provoostenator> Which is made worse by incomplete RBF functionality. So wallet should probabyl hold on to this magic 1 value for a bit longer. 13:03 < aj> provoostenator: shouldn't the fee estimator keep the 1 value in that case anyway? 13:03 < provoostenator> No, 0.5 might get mined for folks who are well connected. 13:04 < aj> provoostenator: if you're well connected, that's fine; if you didn't see it in the mempool before it got mined because you're not well connected, also fine? 13:04 < provoostenator> Ok, but the current fee estimator isn't that smart, is it? 13:04 < aj> think it is 13:05 < provoostenator> Let me look at the documentation... :-P 13:07 < provoostenator> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet/fees.cpp#L38 13:09 < provoostenator> I've actually shot myself in the foot a while ago by having one node (A) exclusively connect to a gateway node (B) which had 1.2 sat/byte as a minimum , while the fee estimator of (A) thought 1 sat/byte would be fine. 13:10 < provoostenator> I may however have ignored the fee estimator and checked the minimum fee box instead, still. 13:11 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@104.137.194.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:11 < aj> oh, that's a good point 13:11 -!- grafcaps_ [~haroldbr@104.137.194.255] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:11 < provoostenator> It could be solved if the wallet indeed was smart enough to warn "Although miner fees are low, there is not a single transaction in your mempool at the fee rate you're trying to use, it may get stuck" 13:12 < aj> even if it didn't get stuck, you'd get that behaviour if miners were getting lots of fees out-of-band 13:12 < aj> well similar behaviour 13:13 < provoostenator> Yes, but out-of-band fees seem less common for now than blog posts with "tips how to spend less on bitcoin fees". 13:13 < aj> yeah, sorry; i mean "such a warning might be relevant even when you're well connected" 13:13 < provoostenator> Yes 13:13 -!- dqx_ [~dqx@unaffiliated/dqx] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:14 < provoostenator> I assume peers don't and shouldn't announce their relay fees due to fingerprinting concerns? 13:15 < aj> peers already announce their min fees so you can avoid sending them txes they'll ignore 13:15 < sipa> they do announce dynamic fees 13:15 < sipa> bip 133 13:15 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:15 < provoostenator> Can that be made cumulative somehow? Like they announce min(their dynamic fee, n degrees dynamic fee) 13:17 < sipa> that seems exploitable 13:17 < provoostenator> Yeah, and I guess it could also get stuck. 13:19 -!- promag [~promag@bl22-247-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:20 < aj> provoostenator: max(my-dynamic-fee, 0.9*min(peers-dynamic-fees)) or something could be amusing i guess? 13:23 < provoostenator> When mempool isn't full it's probably easiest to just use the lowest fee found in it as the threshold where the wallet warns the user. More tricky if it's full. 13:25 < provoostenator> Right now I think it doesn't warn anyway if the user selects a fee that's lower than what their own mempool accepts. 13:32 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:36 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37 -!- clarkmoody [~clarkmood@47-218-248-206.bcstcmta04.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has quit [] 13:40 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49 -!- bitconner [~conner@64-71-8-130.static.wiline.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:58 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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dqx_ [~dqx@unaffiliated/dqx] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:55 -!- rex4539 [~textual@balticom-197-78.balticom.lv] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:56 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57 -!- dqx_ [~dqx@unaffiliated/dqx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-235-213.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:01 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-235-213.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:01 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:07 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: drexl] 17:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:08 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@dsl-trebng21-58c19c-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:09 -!- rex4539 [~textual@balticom-197-78.balticom.lv] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:09 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@dsl-trebng21-58c19c-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:11 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@142.162.42.47] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:14 -!- ctrlbreak [~ctrlbreak@142.162.42.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:17 -!- YANKEE_games is now known as games_ 17:28 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:40 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:52 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:24 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:35 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:38 < gmaxwell> sdaftuar: any idea why on #13298 naumenkogs claims that changing the bucket count does not change propagation time? this seems improbable to me in the extreme. 18:38 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 18:38 < gmaxwell> Since e.g. 2 buckets should be effectively half the delay to relay to someone. 18:38 < gmaxwell> vs 1 18:39 < sipa> gmaxwell: because in practice propagation is much faster through outgoing connections 18:39 < sipa> (where there is no bucket limit) 18:39 < gmaxwell> if it's true, what it means is basically all the propagation is done via outbounds... 18:39 < sipa> right 18:39 < gmaxwell> which is fine, but then thats an argument for using 1 bucket 18:39 < sipa> the argument against 1 bucket is bandwidth spikes 18:41 < gmaxwell> right now the code is n=8, r=2, which gleb didn't post images. And his figures give 63% success for first spy. 18:42 < gmaxwell> I was expecting 2,4 based on the comment "From these numbers, 2 buckets and R=4 seems optimal." 18:42 -!- nmnkgl [uid306870@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmpadiluhezbhbmj] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:43 < gmaxwell> nmnkgl: https://0bin.net/paste/JglfiwFb85oBwU6K#wNRzTWRa7TIbbKJibWAGRxMBZ7jh54JsUwc7xisTkoc 18:45 < nmnkgl> Well, I might have been confusing in my messages. Propagation time is slower 25-40% for r=4 comparing to r=2. 18:46 < nmnkgl> Oh, that's about buckets, right. 18:47 < gmaxwell> nmnkgl: well we can always decrease the base speed to get the propagation time back. 18:47 < gmaxwell> though also I don't have any particular reason to think making propagation slower would be a problem. 18:48 < gmaxwell> with the current behavior we still get very close to 100% hitrates on compact blocks. 18:48 < gmaxwell> I think past analysis of mining stuff suggested that mining infra had average delays on the order of 30 seconds. (e.g. only giving new work to miners somewhat infrequently) 18:50 < nmnkgl> The only thing I'm worried about here is correctness of my results :) 18:50 -!- schmidty_ [~textual@2605:a601:4053:6700:71b3:dfac:8f54:6d80] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:50 < gmaxwell> nmnkgl: your result isn't surprising if we assume that almost all propagation is done by the outbound side, which is plausable. 18:51 -!- schmidty_ [~textual@2605:a601:4053:6700:71b3:dfac:8f54:6d80] has quit [Changing host] 18:51 -!- schmidty_ [~textual@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:51 < gmaxwell> esp if, as I assume, your topology has all nodes with similar order and all accepting inbound. 18:52 < sipa> so the propagation speed across the network should be to some extent influenced by the time until the _first_ broadcast of a given transaction 18:52 < nmnkgl> I can measure what fraction is relayed through outgoing if we won't come up with a good explanation. 18:53 < sipa> if you have more independent buckets, that time will be lower, because there are more independent broadcast events 18:53 < gmaxwell> (luke's figures suggest about 10% of nodes are listening) 18:53 < sipa> turns out there is a simple formula for the minimum of multiple exponential distributions 18:53 < gmaxwell> sipa: but in terms of estimating e.g. impact on CB performance, the first delay is irrelevant. 18:54 < sipa> gmaxwell: no it isn't- as soon as the transaction is out, the rest of the network has a chance to relay it - even to your own peers 18:54 < sipa> i didn't mean to claim this is the dominant factor in propagation, but it matters 18:55 < gmaxwell> sipa: I just mean that we don't care about the time until the second node gets it, we care about the time between the second node and almost all nodes. 18:55 < sipa> something in between, i think 18:55 < gmaxwell> why in between? 18:55 < gmaxwell> I think we're probably talking past each other. 18:56 < sipa> perhaps 18:56 < nmnkgl> To be clear, I observed delay of less that 10% if increasing n buckets. In most of the cases up to 5%. 18:56 < nmnkgl> To be clear, I observed delay of less than 10% if increasing n buckets. In most of the cases up to 5%. 18:56 < gmaxwell> I think all these times are fast enough they're more or less background noise compared to ten minute confirmations and whatnot. But they can potentially impact CB effectiveness. 18:57 < sipa> i'm just trying to argue that having more buckets should be espected to reduce overall propagation delay across the network 18:57 < sipa> even if the average time for sending to any given peer is the same 18:58 < gmaxwell> OH 18:58 < gmaxwell> OKAY 18:58 < gmaxwell> sorry, you and nmnkgl are focused on debugging his simulation and I keep going off topic and trying to optimize the network. 18:58 < sipa> haha ok 18:59 < gmaxwell> yes, indeed, I expect the outbound count would change the propagation time, at least for the first hop, even if almost all the propagation happens via outbound links. 19:00 < gmaxwell> nmnkgl: simulate with r=1, you should see a very dramatic effect from the number of buckets. 19:01 < nmnkgl> will do. 19:01 < gmaxwell> would it be hard for you to simulate only 10% of nodes accepting inbounds? 19:02 < nmnkgl> Not at all, I already did that for spikes measurement. 19:04 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:05 < nmnkgl> I will share results tomorrow morning. 19:07 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:12 -!- schmidty_ [~textual@unaffiliated/schmidty] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:13 -!- schmidty_ [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:29 -!- schmidty_ [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:31 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:42 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19:53 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:19 -!- GoldenBear_ [~gb@mail.tilde.team] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 20:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mruddy closed pull request #13596: zmq: update to avoid deprecated zeromq api functions and log zmq version used (master...zmq-deprecation-update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13596 20:21 -!- GoldenBear [~gb@104.223.31.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:33 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57 -!- bitconner [~conner@64-71-8-130.static.wiline.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:17 < sipa> jonasschnelli: i realize i'm very late with my review on your scanutxoset RPC... but i'm very surprised by the sweep transaction creation integration 21:18 < sipa> a separate createrawsweeptransaction RPC seems much more useful and sane 21:21 < sipa> the size estimation looks broken too; it assumes everything is P2SH-P2WSH with a dummy script inside? 21:22 < sipa> this is not something you can usefully implement without knowing the scripts involved 21:25 -!- Guest20586 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev] 21:26 < sipa> as is, it seems the feature is identical to createrawtransaction with the unspents listed + a simple vbytes per input constant to estimate size 21:26 -!- fear [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:26 -!- fear is now known as Guest48034 21:31 < sipa> Does it even work? It looks to me that for anything P2SH or P2WSH it won't even include the size of transactions in the estimate. 21:31 < sipa> Eh, size of the signatures. 21:32 -!- unholymachine [~quassel@2601:8c:c003:9f16:b8d8:4037:24cc:43d9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32 -!- Guest48034 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev] 21:32 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:36 -!- jwhoisthat [~jodie@24.215.123.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:40 -!- jwhoisthat [~jodie@24.215.123.241] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:41 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:43 -!- sakalli_ [~Mutter@91-155-114-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:46 -!- sakalli_ [~Mutter@91-155-114-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:54 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev] 21:57 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:59 -!- jwhoisthat [~jodie@24.215.123.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59 -!- jwhoisthat [~jodie@24.215.123.241] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21:59 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:00 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:15 -!- nmnkgl [uid306870@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmpadiluhezbhbmj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:18 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev] 22:18 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:19 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:20 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23 -!- fear [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:24 -!- fear is now known as Guest26645 22:32 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:52 -!- nmnkgl [uid306870@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwyovvfjksbkriqe] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:54 -!- Guest26645 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev] 22:54 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:54 -!- fear1 [~fear@194.183.81.172.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:01 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:25 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:29 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:31 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:31 -!- Jmabsd [~jmabsd@188.29.165.148.threembb.co.uk] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:34 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] YutakaNakasone opened pull request #13602: Trivial: delete "to" in comment (master...topic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13602 23:54 -!- marcoagner [~user@156.97.60.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]