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01:15 < provoostenator> I'm chasing a theory that the kernel watchdog on one my ARM machines resets the device during IBD, often during heavier I/O like pruning or cache flushes. Is that even plausible? And is there anything we should do to put said watchdog at ease? http://forum.khadas.com/t/how-to-debug-spontaneous-resets/2624  
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01:19 < warren> provoostenator: not exactly on topic for this channel, but I can comment from my experience that I had ARM devices overheat with CPU load due to inadequate heatsinking, causing such problems.
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01:23 < provoostenator> warran: thanks. I'll let the folks on that forum help with the device itself. The part that's more relevant here is that these resets often leave the chain in an unrecoverable state, at least with pruning enabled. And maybe there's a way to shut down gracefully or not use max resources that we can recommend / do by default on these devices.
01:23 < provoostenator> warren
01:23 < gmaxwell> provoostenator: totally plausable. one of my older odroids does it reliably. adding sleeps to the sync OR putting a fan on top of it, fixes it.
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01:24 < gmaxwell> It's really hard to deal with unreliable hardware, nothing in software is written to handle mystery memory corruption or similar, so all bets are off.
01:30 < provoostenator> I did add a heatsink and fan btw, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kernel / OS support for that is misconfigured.
01:33 < warren> The heatsink + fan that came with one of my ODroids a few years ago was inadequate to cool the device and keep it reliable while under full CPU load on the four cores.
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03:24 < jonasschnelli> I made good experience with the Odroid HC1 (passive / heatsink) and the XU4 with heatsink. Testing both since 3 months.
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04:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5ba77df15de9...d3dae3ddf9fa
04:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 075429a winder: Use common SetDataDir method to create temp directory in tests.
04:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d3dae3d MarcoFalke: Merge #13145: Use common getPath method to create temp directory in tests....
04:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13145: Use common getPath method to create temp directory in tests. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13145
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05:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d3dae3ddf9fa...9b638c7ce1b9
05:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d0b9405 251: Refactors `keystore.h` type aliases....
05:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9b638c7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13627: Free keystore.h from file scope level type aliases...
05:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13627: Free keystore.h from file scope level type aliases (master...patch/cleanup-keystore.h) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13627
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06:42 < promag> wumpus: can you add #13100 to hp?
06:42 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add dynamic wallets support by promag · Pull Request #13100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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06:47 < fanquake> promag added it
06:47 < promag> ty!     
06:47 < promag> if this doesn't get some reviews in the next couple of days it won't go in 0.17
06:48 < promag> and I guess that's fine
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06:53 < wumpus> thanks
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07:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] h4x3rotab opened pull request #13643: Switch to NSIS 3.03 to avoid DLL hijacking (master...nsis-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13643
07:07 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13644: 0.16: Remaining backports for 0.16.2 (0.16...Mf1804-16Backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13644
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07:20 < fanquake> What else needs to happen to make #12511 a reality for 0.17.0? I think I'm losing track of any related PRs.
07:20 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12511 | Switch to Ubuntu 18.04 for gitian building · Issue #12511 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:21 < wumpus> the GLIBC compat PR
07:22 < fanquake> Would be good to get that in to avoid the NSIS problem, and also fix qt on Windows
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07:23 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13177
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07:24 < fanquake> wumpus is feature freeze still the 16th
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07:30 < wumpus> we could discuss that at the meeting
07:30 < wumpus> if there's a good reason to move it, we'll move it...
07:32 < fanquake> I might head to bed now then, and set an alarm for the meeting. A bit to discuss.
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08:18 < fgdf> jhkjh
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08:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9b638c7ce1b9...dcb154e5aad8
08:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 908c1d7 Chun Kuan Lee: GCC-7 and glibc-2.27 compat code
08:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fc6a9f2 Cory Fields: Use IN6ADDR_ANY_INIT instead of in6addr_any
08:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 253f592 Chun Kuan Lee: Add stdin, stdout, stderr to ignored export list
08:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13177: GCC-7 and glibc-2.27 back compat code (master...compat) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13177
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08:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #13645: [tests] skip rpc_zmq functional test as necessary (master...2018-07-skip-zmq-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13645
08:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] domob1812 opened pull request #13646: tests: Skip rpc_zmq.py when ZMQ is disabled (master...skip-zmq-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13646
09:00 < kanzure> is there a publicly-hosted log bot for this channel other than bitcoinstats.com?

--- Log opened Thu Jul 12 09:09:02 2018
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09:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] conradoplg opened pull request #13647: Scripts and tools: Fix BIND_NOW check in security-check.py (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13647
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10:24 < luke-jr> so only 4 days left until feature freeze; if people want to commit to review rwconf in time, I'll try to get it done tonight or tomorrow, otherwise I won't even bother trying (and we get left with an ugly GUI pruning mess to maintain)
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10:27 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: unrelated, you might find 12257 interesting to review... since it undoes some of the damage of address reuse.
10:28 < sipa> gah, unicorn on #13557 :(
10:29 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13557 | BIP 174 PSBT Serializations and RPCs by achow101 · Pull Request #13557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
10:29 < gmaxwell> Thanks Microsoft.
10:29 < cfields> haha
10:30 < cfields> gmaxwell: we'll know the transition is complete when it bsod's instead.
10:30 < instagibbs> refreshing.. usually works
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10:55 < sipa> and a unicorn on #12196 as well
10:55 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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11:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ken2812221 opened pull request #13648: [travis] Increase ccache size for the one which enable debug (master...travis-400m) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13648
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11:16 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #13649: test: allow arguments to be forwarded to flake8 in lint-python.sh (master...2018-07-python-lint-args) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13649
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11:29 < StayCool> I've been wondering about the lightning network, i'm running a full node using Bitcoin Core, however to run a full node on the lightning network i need to install one of the few implementations so far. Will lightning payments using a JSON-RPC api ever be available in Bitcoin Core, or will it always be a separate client? 
11:30 < sipa> StayCool: who knows?
11:30 < sipa> for the foreseeable future i don't expect they to become integrated - bitcoin core's review process is slow and integrating such an amount of complexity would take a long time
11:31 < sipa> but ultimately it is up to contributors and what they want to work on
11:31 < luke-jr> StayCool: Bitcoin implementation diversity makes Lightning implementation diversity look good XD
11:31 < StayCool> I guess time will tell :-) that's a valid point.
11:32 < sipa> perhaps i'm pessimistic but i expect integrating lightning into bitcoin core would take longer than the concept of lightning has been around so far...
11:32 < luke-jr> more likely the wallet finally getting split out (or simply deprecated entirely)
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11:35 < StayCool> Yeah that's true. It's also taken a long time for the current implementations to become functional. I know that c-lightning has a JSON-RPC, it's just wishful thinking for it to be integrated in Bitcoin Core :-)
11:36 < StayCool> It has*
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11:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ken2812221 closed pull request #13648: [travis] Increase ccache size for the one which enable debug (master...travis-400m) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13648
11:39 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: remind me to check next week
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11:51 < StayCool> May be another stupid question - is there any plans to integrate support for hardware wallets in Bitcoin Core? the issue with Ledger is that i rely on them for validating transactions, which i'd prefer to do myself, also increasing privacy. Perhaps there is some sort of roadmap for what you guys are working on? 
11:52 < sipa> StayCool: have you looked at BIP174 (PSBT) ?
11:53 < StayCool> Ah yes i heard about that earlier, i'll have to give it a readthrough :-) Thanks!
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12:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 19:00:03 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:00 < achow101> hi
12:00 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
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12:00 < kanzure> hi.
12:00 < meshcollider_> Hi
12:00 < jonasschnelli> hi
12:00 < nmnkgl> hi
12:01 < cfields> very quick topic suggestion: meeting time poll
12:01 < ken2812221> hi first time to the meeting
12:01 < wumpus> so quite some things to discuss today, at least: - Move feature freeze date? (currently july 16th) - 0.16.2 - gitian build to 18.04: what is left to do
12:01 < meshcollider> Welcome ken2812221 :)
12:01 < jamesob> howdy
12:01 < wumpus> #topic meeting time poll (cfields)
12:01 < cfields> ken2812221: good to see you here :)
12:02 < cfields> remember to vote on meeting time. If you didn't get a mail about it, now's the time to tell me!
12:02 -!- meshcollider is now known as mesh_
12:02 -!- meshcollider_ is now known as meshcollider
12:02  * wumpus has voted
12:02 < cfields> </topic>
12:02  * sipa has voted
12:02  * jonasschnelli has voted
12:02 < instagibbs> yo vote
12:02 < achow101> when does the poll close?
12:02 < luke-jr> cfields: your poll made me realise the current time is among the worst possible times for me :P
12:02 < luke-jr> achow101: after the meeting today IIRC
12:02 < cfields> achow101: this time next week
12:02 < luke-jr> ah, next meeting
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12:03 < wumpus> #topic Move feature freeze date? (wumpus)
12:03 < cfields> luke-jr: I wanted to give enough time for people to realize they didn't receive a mail to vote
12:03 < ken2812221> cfield: Can I get an email for voting?
12:03 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: + how many days/weeks?
12:03 < wumpus> so the current future freeze is july 16th, which is in a few days
12:03 < jnewbery> hi
12:03 < cfields> also, sorry about not using the more convenient doodle. I figured Cornell would be more polite with everyone's email addresses.
12:03 < sipa> i would be in favor of delaying slightly, let's say a week
12:03 < jonasschnelli> I'm in favor of moving since i'd like to get scantxout and disableprivatekey in
12:03 < luke-jr> rwconf is not ready for review yet; I can prioritise it, but unless there's hope for sufficient review before the freeze, I won't
12:03 < achow101> it would be nice to get psbt (#13557) in for 0.17
12:03 < sipa> we have many relative big but important improvements that are almost ready
12:03 < instagibbs> cfields, what effort was made to reach out to folks who don't attend already, yet contribute in either review or PR?
12:04 < wumpus> so my question is, should we delay it, are there important things that would otherwise miss but are *almost* ready?
12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13557 | BIP 174 PSBT Serializations and RPCs by achow101 · Pull Request #13557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:04 < cfields> ken2812221: pm me your email?
12:04 < instagibbs> the poll as-is will heavily bias current times :) 
12:04 < instagibbs> oh sorry, new topic
12:04 < jonasschnelli> achow101: isn't the BIP still in discussion? Or have we finalized it?
12:04 < cfields> instagibbs: i posted to the mailing list as well. but no further outreach.
12:04 < sipa> jonasschnelli: it was marked as proposed
12:04 < luke-jr> wumpus: things can always go into 0.18; my only concern is that the GUI pruning was merged in advance of rwconf
12:04 < kanzure> i've answered the poll but i also want to complain about its setup (it's like 500 button clicks to answer the full thing)
12:04 < sipa> jonasschnelli: so not material changes
12:04 < achow101> jonasschnelli: spec part is finalized. some wording for clarifications may change, but its basically final
12:05 < jonasschnelli> ack... have plans to review #13557
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12:05 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13557 | BIP 174 PSBT Serializations and RPCs by achow101 · Pull Request #13557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:05 < achow101> jonasschnelli: beware of unicorns when attempting to review it though
12:05 < jonasschnelli> achow101: private browsing help while reviewing. :)
12:05 < cfields> kanzure: sorry :(
12:05 < sipa> yes, but doesn't let you comment
12:06 < luke-jr> kanzure: drag and drop worked best IMO
12:06 < kanzure> oh
12:06 < sipa> wumpus: would it make sense to put the feature freeze date on or shortly after a weekly meeting?
12:07 < meshcollider> sipa: you can still log in to GitHub when on private browsing 
12:07 < wumpus> sipa: possibly, though I don't want to keep moving it forward
12:07 < sipa> wumpus: fair
12:07 < sipa> meshcollider: heh, i assumed the unicorn was due to being logged in or not; does private browsing itself (regardless of login status) help?
12:08 < wumpus> we have time-based releases for a good reason, the idea is not to switch to "let's decide in the meeting when it's ready"
12:08 < achow101> how about moving it to next thursday and try to review things this week?
12:08 < jonasschnelli> ack
12:08 < sipa> that's a 3 day delay; ok
12:08 < wumpus> let's just move it by a week then
12:08 < meshcollider> I think it helps anyway, don't ask me why lol
12:09 < achow101> wumpus: ack
12:09 < wumpus> so july 23
12:09 < meshcollider> Ack for move
12:09 < wumpus> will update #12624
12:09 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 | Release schedule for 0.17.0 · Issue #12624 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:10 < wumpus> #topic 0.16.2 (wumpus)
12:10 < wumpus> it'd make sense to do a 0.16.2 release soon
12:10 < sipa> yeah
12:10 < wumpus> so it's not too little before 0.17
12:11 < wumpus> too short*
12:11 < wumpus> anything that really needs to make it in, besides what is already backported in #13644?
12:11 < BlueMatt> there is already a backports pr for the rest, I think at #13644
12:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13644 | 0.16: Remaining backports for 0.16.2 by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13644 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13644 | 0.16: Remaining backports for 0.16.2 by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13644 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:11 < luke-jr> tbh, I'd almost think it's preferable to do a bugfix right before the next major release; but no objections either way
12:12 < wumpus> ok
12:12 < luke-jr> (well, right before RC1 anyway)
12:12 < cfields> luke-jr: but that way if a backport goes bad, potentially both new versions end up busted :\
12:12 < luke-jr> since we're up against rc1 anyway, this timing seems good
12:12 < cfields> I'd rather stagger a bit, generally speaking
12:12 < luke-jr> cfields: true, but hopefully we're more careful than that :x
12:13 < instagibbs> what is 0.16.2 timeline like?
12:14 < BlueMatt> instagibbs: once 13644 gets merged, essentially, I think
12:14 < BlueMatt> hence the "anyone have anything else to shove in?"
12:14 < MarcoFalke> Yeah. timeline: Backports, merge+test, release
12:14 < wumpus> yes, as no one mentioned anything else it's just 13644
12:14 < wumpus> make sure you review that
12:14 < luke-jr> well, we need a rc1 at least I think?
12:14 < MarcoFalke> sure
12:14 < wumpus> yes, as always
12:16 < wumpus> rc1 then if no significant bug reports, tag final
12:16 < wumpus> usually a week
12:17 < wumpus> #topic gitian build to 18.04 ubuntu bionic
12:17 < sipa> what are the current issues?
12:17 < sipa> (with upgrading to 18.04)
12:17 < wumpus> I merged #13177 today, wondering what the remaining issues are
12:17 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13177 | GCC-7 and glibc-2.27 back compat code by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13177 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:18 < wumpus> note that we *must* upgrade, otherwise the qt build will fail (or would have to downgrade qt again, which is a mess)
12:18 < luke-jr> did vmbuilder get fixed for 18.04?
12:18 < cfields> I was in denial that I would have toolchain stuff done in time for 0.17. Sadly it's not happening. Just started having a look at the current PRs.
12:18 < achow101> IIRC vmbuilder doesn't work with 18.04. or maybe it was vmbuilder doesn't work on 18.04.
12:18 < luke-jr> achow101: I tried it on Gentoo and it couldn't build :/
12:18 < wumpus> so would need to find another way to build 18.04 VMs?
12:19 < achow101> yes
12:19 < luke-jr> or get vmbuilder fixed ideally
12:19 < achow101> I think vmbuilder is a dead project though
12:19 < luke-jr> :/
12:19 < achow101> wumpus: hence my docker thing
12:19 < cfields> is it not possible to just use a static, pre-prepared rootfs?
12:19 < wumpus> well, switching to another container shouldn't be necessary
12:20 < luke-jr> cfields: need a bootloader
12:20 < wumpus> it's just a matter of building a rootfs
12:20 < luke-jr> cfields: and who to trust with a rootfs anyway?
12:20 < cfields> luke-jr: well... ubuntu. currently.
12:20 < wumpus> you can download pre-made cloud rootfses from ubuntu
12:20 < luke-jr> oh
12:20 < cfields> (I was just suggesting we use one of their docker images as a rootfs for gitian)
12:20 < sipa> dongcarl: present? you were looking into minimal linux images to bootstrap from?
12:20 < luke-jr> do they have bootloaders somehow too?
12:21 < wumpus> #link https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/bionic/current/
12:21 < achow101> is vmbuilder used for both lxc and kvm?
12:21 < cfields> luke-jr: tbh I have no idea how bootloaders work for kvm/lxc
12:21 < achow101> (in gitian)
12:22 < luke-jr> cfields: for KVM, like real hardware
12:22 < wumpus> to convert the img to qcow2 for qemu:   qemu-img convert -O qcow2  ${IMAGE} ${VMDIR}/os.img
12:22 < sipa> wumpus: daily builds? do we retain determinism if people use different builds?
12:22 < cfields> I always assumed they just jumped straight into init
12:22  * luke-jr wonders if these ppc64el rootfs would build identical binaries :D
12:22 < luke-jr> cfields: KVM just virtualized/emulates a real machine
12:22 < wumpus> sipa: well it does already do an apt-get upgrade before buildling so I don't know if that matters
12:23 < wumpus> but yes maybe uncertain...
12:23 < sipa> cfields: LXC even skips init afaik
12:23 < sipa> cfields: you just run processes in a namespace that doesn't see the rest of your system
12:23 < luke-jr> I guess the .img files would have a bootloader probably
12:24 < achow101> sipa: at least with docker, the base ubuntu image changes fairly frequently (within the same version though) and that has produced deterministic binaries for me with different base images
12:24 < wumpus> right - LXC certainly doesn't need a bootloader
12:24 < sipa> okay
12:24 < luke-jr> sipa: init is a userspace process; you can't skip it :P
12:24 < cfields> I can investigate all this and report back next week
12:24 < sipa> luke-jr: ...?
12:24 < wumpus> as I understand it, basically you just launch *any* exceutable in the container
12:24 < sipa> wumpus: yes, that's my understanding
12:24 < luke-jr> sipa: init is what handles all the startup daemons etc
12:25 < wumpus> this an be init, but it can also be just a shell (fairly sure gitian does the latter)
12:25 < wumpus> luke-jr: there are no startup daemons in gitian
12:25 < luke-jr> O.o
12:25 < cfields> wumpus: I always assumed init was just a thin launcher for whatever binary you're telling it to run
12:25 < wumpus> luke-jr: it simply calls the build script
12:25 < luke-jr> there are with KVM ofc
12:25 < wumpus> yes, I mean with LXC
12:25 < wumpus> cfields: thanks!
12:26 < cfields> I have a related subtopic, if nothing's queued up next
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12:27 < wumpus> I don't have any more topics
12:27 < cfields> So, I didn't get the toolchain work done in time for 0.17, but I am nearly finished with the first part: A deterministic, fully static, native x86_64 toolchain capable of rebuilding another native toolchain...
12:27 < cfields> that doesn't get us anywhere for 0.17...
12:27 < achow101> for lxc, we don't use vmbuilder, but I'm pretty sure what it does use is not the way to use lxc
12:27 < achow101> it uses debootstrap
12:28 < cfields> but it might be helpful to have at least that much built as part of the 0.17 release process. As with that done deterministically, we wouldn't have to rely on a distro toolchain at all for 0.18.
12:28 < wumpus> ah yes debootstrap, that's a good way to build debian rootfs'es
12:29 < cfields> so, I'd like to propose possibly adding an extra (optional) gitian descriptor that builders can run as part of the 0.17 release.
12:29 < sipa> cfields: so what would that entail for 0.17?
12:29 < cfields> thoughts?
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12:30 < sipa> cfields: i'm not sure what you're suggesting
12:30 < luke-jr> achow101: vmbuilder also uses debootstrap internally
12:31 < luke-jr> cfields: is there a way to make this work for non-x86_64?
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12:32 < sipa> cfields: adding an extra gitian descriptor for what?
12:32 < cfields> sipa: at some point we're going to have to use gitian (or similar) to build all deterministic toolchains. The work isn't done for all toolchains yet, but I do have something working that gets us a native one. I'm proposing that we go ahead and build that one, so that it can later be used to build the rest.
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12:33 < sipa> cfields: seems fine to me, but it seems independent of release schedule
12:33 < cfields> luke-jr: yes, I've just focused on x86_64 as a start
12:33 < luke-jr> cfields: x86_64 isn't native for me ;)
12:34 < cfields> sipa: indeed, mostly. I just doubt I'll be able to convince a bunch of people to run a gitian build at any other time :p
12:34 < sipa> ah, fair
12:34  * sipa is reminded to try a gitian build again
12:35 < luke-jr> cfields: ie, I'm not looking at the target platforms, but the build platform
12:35 < cfields> ok, it's probably not at all clear what I'm getting at. I'll try to get enough together to PR something.
12:36 < wumpus> ok! thanks in advance
12:36 < cfields> luke-jr: understood. native x86_64 is capable of building a cross-compiler for a new host. We just need one as a start.
12:37 < luke-jr> Ubuntu has ppc64el images; so there's no native x86_64 needed is my point
12:38 < cfields> luke-jr: ok
12:38 < cfields> </topic>
12:39 < gmaxwell> cool
12:39 < wumpus> topic proposals?
12:39 < gmaxwell> I guess kallewoof isn't here (timezome) but I wondered what was the status of 12257.
12:40 < gmaxwell> It seems to just be in a rebase rebase cycle.
12:40 < jonasschnelli> #12257
12:40 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12257 | [wallet] Use destination groups instead of coins in coin select by kallewoof · Pull Request #12257 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:40 < wumpus> it has only one "light utack"
12:41 < sipa> i held off on it, expecting other more invesive changes to coin selection to go in first
12:41 < gmaxwell> sipa: well, they did!
12:41 < sipa> but if that isn't happening for 0.17, maybe we can do destination groups first
12:41 < wumpus> and a "code review ack" but with comments
12:41 < gmaxwell> (I mean things like BNB got done since that was open)
12:42 < achow101> gmaxwell: sipa srd fallback is more invasive and probably won't make 0.17
12:42 < sipa> yeah
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12:43 < gmaxwell> one of my thougts is that this kind of behavior might makes things like SRD easier to do, from a "impact on the UTXO set" perspective, as it'll cause more utxo consolidation at least for users tha reused.
12:44 < achow101> gmaxwell: perhaps. I can try a siulation of srd on top of 12257
12:44 < gmaxwell> In any case, I just wondered where it was standing, I guess its state is "people need to be nagged to review it". I'm not sure if it's a candidate to go in before the freeze. 
12:44 < sipa> achow101: that would be useful
12:44 < gmaxwell> achow101: would be interesting, but I expect the benefit to be highly usage-pattern dependant. (e.g. this does nothing if you never reuse)
12:45 < wumpus> no opinion of whether it should go into 0.17, but I think it could just as well be called a fix as a feature
12:45 < gmaxwell> I also agree that it's a (privacy) fix.
12:46 < sipa> it's an obvious improvement for sure
12:46 < gmaxwell> in any case, I hit the PR accidentally, I'd forgotten about it, sounds like some of the rest of us did to. I'll give it a review. (or try, wallet stuff isn't my strongest point :) )
12:46 < luke-jr> I don't agree it's a fix, since it only affects people doing things with undefined behaviour; but it seems harmless enough
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12:48 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3318  I see an address there, and it's been paid mannny times. :P so seems like it might help you personally.
12:48 < luke-jr> also the behavioural changes can be made a no-op pretty trivially
12:49 < luke-jr> ie, we could merge it before the freeze, and trivially revert the behaviour if a problem is found
12:49 -!- StayCool [5bf0b927@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.240.185.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
12:49 < gmaxwell> Right, it's also very unagressive by default. E.g. won't pay extra fees to achieve its end.. which sounded reasonable to me for an initial deployment.
12:50 < gmaxwell> I'd hope in the future we'd let it pay more in fees, esp if we have a mechnism to estimate if fees are historically high or low.
12:50 < gmaxwell> but getting to that future requires getting the basic functionality in. :)
12:50 < luke-jr> FWIW, I have read through the code at least once; just not in enough detail I'd felt comfortable ACKing
12:51 < gmaxwell> Okay, I think this topic is done... Consider yourselves reminded. I'm glad to know there wasn't some other blocker.
12:51 < wumpus> any other topics?
12:52 < gmaxwell> [META] Perhaps we should have a standing item to load up the PR list for regular contribtors who aren't at the meeting to make sure we're not forgetting their PRs.
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12:52 < gmaxwell> I see also that there are some jl2012 PRs languishing that I'll probably talk to pieter about outside of the meeting.
12:53 < wumpus> well I've intentially skipped high priority for review this time, seems it's pretty clear, just need to get the features for 0.17 in asap
12:53 < gmaxwell> yea, I meant that as a long term thing.
12:53 < wumpus> right, I agree then
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12:55 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:55 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 19:55:29 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:55 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-12-19.00.html
12:55 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-12-19.00.txt
12:55 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-07-12-19.00.log.html
12:56 < jonasschnelli> I think #9662 is ready,... maybe needs a final review
12:56 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9662 | Add createwallet "disableprivatekeys" option: a sane mode for watchonly-wallets by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #9662 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:56 < gmaxwell> thats a low PR number.
12:56 < jonasschnelli> Yes. We should nail this down... or close.
12:57 < sipa> woooooow 4 digits
12:57 < sipa> jonasschnelli: i'm hesitant about adding more "modes" to a wallet that aren't very well integrated
12:57 < luke-jr> I have a 3-digit PR I still maintain :p
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12:58 < jonasschnelli> sipa: IMO an enforce watch-only mode is required for a transition to move keys away from the wallet
12:58 < sipa> jonasschnelli: and longer-term the descriptors work should generalize it
12:58 < sipa> jonasschnelli: so i'm thinking about additional difficulty of converting more types of wallets from one thing to another
12:58 < sipa> but i also don't want to delay things
12:59 < jonasschnelli> I think disableprivatekey is a transition mode. We need something that ensures that no hot key will be created in cold storage mode
12:59 < wumpus> it's certainly a useful mode
12:59 < jonasschnelli> Assume you forget the change address in fundrawtx with watch-only
12:59 < sipa> yes, i'm not disagreeing with the functionality at all
12:59 < jonasschnelli> bum... change key is hot
12:59 < sipa> just scared about more combinations of things to deal with
13:00 < wumpus> yes
13:00 < jonasschnelli> Yes. I see that point...
13:00 < gmaxwell> The functionality seems like an obvious no brainer. 
13:00 < sipa> indeed
13:00 < jonasschnelli> IMO that mode will probably stay (not the implementation though)
13:01 < gmaxwell> The wallet is a mess of conditional logic though from grafted on features.  I wonder how related this feature is to the "don't create a wallet file at all, until a key is requested or encryption is activated".
13:02 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: Yes. Though you would still want a feature where you are sure "keys can't be requested".
13:04  * jonasschnelli sees plenty of unicorns recently
13:06 < jonasschnelli> A thought for next meeting: enforce PGP signature for security@bitcoincore.org (bounce email with no PGP signature), drop spam.
13:06 < gmaxwell> PGP encryption, I assume you mean. :)
13:07 < gmaxwell> It would need to bounce with pgp instructions. I guess. But I've thought that before.
13:07 < jonasschnelli> Ideally,... but a valid signature would probably be okay?
13:07 < BlueMatt> what, you dont enjoy the nonstop stream of "I'm being blackmailed, can you send free moneyz to addr A" or "please freeze account Y, your bitcoin project is clearly an illegal front and you need to shut it down" garbage?
13:07 < BlueMatt> also, no backscatter, please
13:07 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: hehe,... not really. :)
13:07 < gmaxwell> For people who don't get those emails, some context is that the address gets a fair number of email from sad confused people who lost their bitcoin (or claim to be), and other ... emails that we really can't do anything about.
13:09 < harding> Maybe gate the actual email address by a form on the website?  It wouldn't ask them to submit their actual security content to the website, but it could probably redirect some of those people to other places.
13:09 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: probably just matching for the pgp header. :P
13:09 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: Yes! Indeed... that shouldn't be to hard to implement... probably a spamassasin rule
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13:09 < jonasschnelli> (with a custom bounce text)
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13:11 < promag> heh meeting day :/
13:15 < promag> unicorn on #12196
13:15 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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13:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ken2812221 opened pull request #13650: [travis] Don't store debug info if --enable-debug is set (master...travis-debug-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13650
13:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact opened pull request #13651: Extract CWallet::MarkInputsDirty, and privatize AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe (master...mark-inputs-dirty) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13651
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14:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact opened pull request #13652: Fix that CWallet::AbandonTransaction would only traverse one level (master...fix-abandon-transaction) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13652
14:29 < achow101> gmaxwell: so I tried doing a "create wallet on use" thing and it got horribly complicated due to some things directly calling walletdb functions rather than some wrapper where it could be more easily implemented
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14:59 < cfields> wtf
14:59 < cfields> "debootstrap was written by Anthony Towns <ajt@debian.org>"
15:00 < cfields> we've had a ringer in here all along?!
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15:17 < kanzure> cfields: ajtowns was leader of the debian project for a while
15:18 < aj> cfields: haha :)
15:19 < cfields> huh, I had no clue
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15:19 < cfields> aj: this Bionic mess is all yours, then :p
15:20 < aj> cfields: that sounds like an ubuntu codename though!
15:21 < cfields> aj: ah, so that's the problem :)
15:21 < aj> wow, launchpad bug ids are over 1.7M now
15:22 < aj> cfields: what's the mess?
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15:23 < cfields> aj: heh, just kidding about the mess. we're migrating to a newer Ubuntu version for Gitian, but some of the tools are deprecated.
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15:38 < achow101> I think the problems I have been having with lxc are version problems. apparently lxc 3 changed a bunch of stuff for config files but gitian-builder hasn't updated to those yet. there's an open pr to fix that though
15:38 < achow101> for kvm, vmbuilder is just borked. afaict, it hasn't been updated since 2010
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16:24 < luke-jr> aj: the mess is that vmbuilder fails to build bionic VMs
16:32 < achow101> luke-jr: there's some forks of vmbuilder that have updated it. e.g. https://github.com/newroco/vmbuilder
16:33 < luke-jr> ooh
16:33 < achow101> I was thinking that maybe gitian-builder can just have that directly in the git tree and just use it for building the kvm vms instead of using the old vmbuilder
16:33 < luke-jr> embedding copies of dependencies is stupid; just need to make it easy for people to get the updated dep
16:34 < cfields> lxc doesn't require vmbuilder. I've almost got it going, just a few annoying version bugs
16:34 < sipa> cfields: nice
16:34 < cfields> and for kvm, I think maybe we can transition to uvtool
16:34 < achow101> cfields: I got lxc working after applying https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/178
16:35 < luke-jr> cfields: another Ubuntu-specific tool? :/
16:35 < cfields> achow101: it depends on versions. xenial -> bionic is currently busted
16:35 < luke-jr> sounds like it requires libvirt :<
16:35 < cfields> the lxc devs aren't doing too well with back/forward compatibility :(
16:35 < achow101> yeah..
16:36 < cfields> and ubuntu has some dependency hell. haven't run into that in a while
16:36 < luke-jr> cfields: not everyone uses Ubuntu
16:37 < cfields> luke-jr: I'm aware.
16:38 < cfields> luke-jr: this is just broken distro stuff that we can create notes for. Hopefully other distros don't need as much hand-holding :\
17:11 < achow101> cfields: for kvm, I think it would be easier to keep vmbuilder and just use the updated fork
17:11 < achow101> also probably more cross-platform too
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17:40 < cfields> achow101: you're probably right. I haven't looked into uvtool much yet
17:41 < cfields> finally managed to get builds going. testing #13171 now.
17:41 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13171 | Change gitian-descriptors to use bionic instead by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13171 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
17:43 < luke-jr> hopefully bionic is ready sooner rather than later so we can slip POWER9 into 0.17 bins :p
17:44 < luke-jr> (or POWER8 for more compatibility)
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21:22 < kallewoof> FWIW I was going to ask to have #12257 added to high priority list at the meeting now that the transaction limit one is merged but I fell asleep. Any objections on that?
21:22 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12257 | [wallet] Use destination groups instead of coins in coin select by kallewoof · Pull Request #12257 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:35 < gmaxwell> I would have asked for that myself but wumpus made sounds that it could go in after the freeze too.
21:36 < gmaxwell> (also, I hadn't reviewed it yet so I felt kinda bad for nagging. :) )
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21:50 < kallewoof> Ohh, OK!
21:51 < kallewoof> Thanks for nagging though.
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 13 00:00:15 2018