--- Log opened Fri Jul 13 00:00:15 2018
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00:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #13654: build: make 'depends' output less spammy (master...depends-despammed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13654
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01:57 < kallewoof> So, the make depends part of the macos travis job is taking 35 minutes. leaving ~5-10 minutes for the rest of the build process before travis bops it over the head.
01:58 < kallewoof> Do we really need to ... make everything from scratch every time? It feels quite overkill.
01:59 < kallewoof> https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/403447612 has a patch with better overview of each depends build. qt alone takes 17 minutes.
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02:00 < kallewoof> https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/403447612#L1745-L1756 specifically
02:00 < sipa> kallewoof: should be cached, no?
02:00 < sipa> cfields: ^ ?
02:00 < kallewoof> sipa: it doesn't seem to be
02:00 < aj> downloads might be cached, but the rebuilds sure don't seem to be?
02:01 < aj> (assuming you mean via ccache)
02:01 < ken2812221_> I hava a PR #13515 to fail the travis job if depends build take more than 20 mins, so it can store cache safely.
02:01 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13515 | travis: Enable Qt build for Windows and 32-bit Linux by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13515 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHubAsset 1Asset 1
02:03 < kallewoof> I was wading through logs because make depends made so much output that travis truncated the log. Hence #13654
02:03 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13654 | build: make depends output less spammy by kallewoof · Pull Request #13654 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHubAsset 1Asset 1
02:03 < kallewoof> All other make depends output is super fast, like a few minutes at most. Only qt that is taking 17 mins.
02:07 < ken2812221_> If travis fail because it runs more than 50 mins, it won't store the cache. That's why I do #13515.
02:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13515 | travis: Enable Qt build for Windows and 32-bit Linux by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13515 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
02:07 < kallewoof> ken2812221_: Ahh, I was wondering what you meant.
02:10 < ken2812221_> Didn't you complain about timeout in travis ci? 
02:10 < kallewoof> I did, yep. I just didn't understand what you meant when you said "fail the travis job so it can store cache safely".
02:11 < sipa> kallewoof: if it fails before timing out, the resulting builds are still cached for future runs
02:12 < kallewoof> Yeah I understand that now after ken2812221_ explained
02:12 < ken2812221_> Thanks sipa. That is what I mean.
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02:58 < provoostenator> Double unicorn on #13557 (Github said a while ago that there should only be single unicorns and refresh makes them go away)
02:58 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13557 | BIP 174 PSBT Serializations and RPCs by achow101 · Pull Request #13557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dcb154e5aad8...2ea7eb62b21a
03:00 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a0b604c James O'Beirne: [tests] skip rpc_zmq functional test when python3 zmq lib is not present...
03:00 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2ea7eb6 MarcoFalke: Merge #13645: [tests] skip rpc_zmq functional test as necessary...
03:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13646: tests: Skip rpc_zmq.py when ZMQ is disabled (master...skip-zmq-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13646
03:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13645: [tests] skip rpc_zmq functional test as necessary (master...2018-07-skip-zmq-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13645
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05:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] afk11 opened pull request #13655: bitcoinconsensus: invalid flags should be set to bitcoinconsensus_err (master...bitcoinconsensus-invalid-flags-squashed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13655
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06:18 < StayCool> I just read through some of satoshi's old posts on bitcointalk, and some of the latest ones mention the accounting feature of the JSON-RPC. I find it interesting that Satoshi wanted an implementation of accounts to be available, to easily enable developers to handle customer balances. However currently, it seems like there is consensus from the current developers for completely removing accounts. https://bitcointalk.org/i
06:19 < StayCool> from what i can read, it seems that the primary reason behind removing the accounts feature is that it has had some issues with balances below 0 while not scaling to millions of accounts? I wonder how Satoshi would look at the account feature today.
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06:36 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: why do you insist on keeping a broken mis-feature in scantxoutset? ("address" support confuses users by mixing up addresses and keys, and on top of that, it doesn't even work since p2pk won't get picked up)
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06:41 < provoostenator> StayCool: it's mostly just renamed to labels. Keeping funds properly seperate is better achieved by using multiple wallets, a feature that was recently added. 
06:43 < StayCool> provoostenator: but this "multiple" wallet feature only scales to about 100-200 wallets, and that is with a rather big amount of RAM. Hopefully the scalability can be increased. 
06:45 < StayCool> Also it's not simply a renaming to labels. Some RPC commands will be removed regarding account, for example the move command.
06:47 < jnewbery> StayCool: `move` is utterly broken
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07:10 < luke-jr> provoostenator: accounts are in many ways better than multiwallet
07:10 < luke-jr> jnewbery: broken how?
07:11 < luke-jr> it did/does what it is intended to do AFAIK
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07:11 < provoostenator> Labels no longer keep funds seperated when they're spent, right?
07:12 < luke-jr> provoostenator: they never did, and never were intended to
07:13 < provoostenator> Right, so that gives a false sense of privacy. 
07:13 < luke-jr> only if people don't RTFM
07:13 < luke-jr> (and in some ways, accounts actually improved privacy because of this)
07:15 < provoostenator> If funds aren't seperated in any way, how did "move" make any sense?
07:15 < luke-jr> provoostenator: each account had a balance. move increased the balance of one, and decreased the balance of another.
07:16 < luke-jr> it basically worked fine AFAIK, except 1) didn't scale and 2) didn't backup very well
07:16 < provoostenator> And because of the funds mixing, you could end up with negative balances (though the sum would be 0)?
07:17 < luke-jr> provoostenator: you get negative balances by move-ing more funds than your source account had
07:17 < luke-jr> and possibly with fees; I forget how those worked
07:18 < luke-jr> eg, if accountA has 1 BTC, move 2 BTC and now it has -1 BTC
07:18 < provoostenator> Proof that Satoshi wanted fractional reserves ultimately :-P
07:19 < StayCool> i think the issue with fees was fixed when sendtoaddress included a subtractfee parameter, before that sendfrom was used which could result in a negative fee if the fee was higher than the amount
07:20 < StayCool> how come the accounts feature doesn't scale very well?
07:20 < StayCool> negative amount not fee*
07:22 < luke-jr> StayCool: all move-s were basically kept in RAM
07:23 < StayCool> you mean move-s using the "move" command, or all transactions?
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07:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] 251Labs opened pull request #13656: Remove the boost/algorithm/string/predicate.hpp dependency from netbase.cpp (master...patch/remove_boost_predicate_from_netbase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13656
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09:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact opened pull request #13657: wallet: assert to ensure accuracy of CMerkleTx::GetBlocksToMaturity (master...accurate-get-blocks-to-maturity) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13657
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09:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact opened pull request #13658: [wallet] [moveonly] Move rescanning from time logic into wallet/rpcdump.cpp (master...rescan-from-time) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13658
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10:06 < gmaxwell> StayCool: beyond being somewhat flaky, the accounts feature is just inherently unsafe to use because there is no way to make it durable.  Say you withdraw under a seperate account, but then crash right at the same time.  Its possible for the transfer to have gone through but the account binding information to be lost.
10:07 < gmaxwell> provoostenator: like luke said, multiwallet is in absoltely no way a replacement for accounts, and for the application of accounts multiwallet is tremendously worse.
10:07 < gmaxwell> Nor is multiwallet intended to be a replacement for accounts.
10:07 < gmaxwell> The replacement for accounts is managing them in your own front end accounting database... which can be made durable and scalable.
10:09 < gmaxwell> StayCool: as far as what satoshi thinks, I think it's quite likely that he'd agree now that we can't manage the complexity of the software by craming in every additional piece of functionality that could be done just as well (or better) outside of the software.  But if he didn't? Who cares? Lots of people disagree about this or that here and there. 
10:11 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: I don't agree with your addresses comment above. Addresses are highly useful ways to identify txouts. It doesn't 'mix up addresses and keys' -- it lets you query by "give me the txouts that were sent to this particular address" which is highly useful, since the address is likely the only identifying mark that the user has previously seen for whatever set of txouts they're aware of.
10:12 < gmaxwell> provoostenator: to be clear, accounts never kept funds seperate, nor were they intended to.  They accounted for different attribution for funds while not keeping them seperate.
10:15 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: txouts aren't sent to addresses; bitcoins are. the txouts created don't get associated with the address
10:16 < luke-jr> it's an important distinction, because otherwise you get people thinking the validity of a UTXO means the person who received at that address owns those funds
10:17 < gmaxwell> touts are spendable by a specific scriptpubkey, which an address encodes. It's written write into them.
10:18 < luke-jr> an address is an opaque abstraction; that it is implemented by encoding a scriptpubkey is a technical detail unrelated to the address itself
10:18 < gmaxwell> You're just wasting people's time arguing that scanning shouldn't match by address. Thats 99.9% of the utility of it for me and many others.  People are not going to go "gee luke, you're right. I guess we'll handicap this feature to make it useless to us even personally then merge it anyways"
10:19 < gmaxwell> Moreover, consistency with listunspent demands it.
10:19 < luke-jr> if listunspent has such a bug, that should get fixed. UTXOs and addresses do not mix, or you end up with "send from", "address balance" and similar nonsense
10:20 < gmaxwell> "send from" is a bit of confusion about the properties of the spending transaction, not properties of the txouts.
10:20 < luke-jr> the spending transaction is spending txouts
10:21 < gmaxwell> touts identified by txid:vout, not by address. 
10:21 < luke-jr> UTXOs are identified by txid:vout, not by address.
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10:22 < gmaxwell> I'm all for avoiding confusing functionality that isn't important. But without the ability to match by address this scanning stuff (as well as listunspent) would be almost useless.
10:22 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: indeed, they are not, if they were identified by address you wouldn't need a scan function to go from address to identifier!
10:23 < gmaxwell> The purpose of a scan function is to go from a non-identifying property about something to the identifier(s).
10:25 < instagibbs> Empact_, I'm seeing a number of "move only" PRs, now I'm unsure of the definition of move only. 
10:26 < luke-jr> if address was a property of UTXOs, then addresses would have balances, and addresses would send coins
10:26 < instagibbs> Your PRs are encapsulating and de-duplicating behavior, to me that's not move only, but maybe I have my personal biases on the meaning
10:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13618: Typos in the install script (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13618
10:26  * instagibbs throwing this question into the open. see #13651 for example
10:26 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13651 | [moveonly] Extract CWallet::MarkInputsDirty, and privatize AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe by Empact · Pull Request #13651 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
10:28 < gmaxwell> That isn't moveonly as I understood it.
10:28 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: re https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13644#issuecomment-404896710 , I don't see them?
10:29 < luke-jr> oh, maybe prior to that PR
10:29 < Lauda> Is it possible that txindex building is doing too many operations? According to linux mint system monitor it did: read total 3.0 TiB, write total 276.6 GiB
10:30 < Lauda> Seems excessive, and I compared to the network traffic (insignificant in comparison) so it isnt block serving
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10:43 < sipa> Lauda: no, validation is very heavy in i/o; it should go down with large dbcache
10:44 < Lauda> this was with ~5-6GB being used by qt
10:44 < Lauda> did anyone ever benchmark something like this? If so, I'd like to take a look :)
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10:50 < sipa> StayCool: the biggest issue with accounts is that it effectively requires you to make a backup after every address you generate
10:50 < sipa> StayCool: plus 99% of people assume they work like multiple wallets, and that acxounts represent sets of UTXO (instead of being bean counters internal to a wallet)
10:52 < gmaxwell> Not just after every address you generate, but also backup concurrently with sending funds-- e.g. any time you spend in an account you'd need to backup before broadcasting the transaction.
10:53 < sipa> luke-jr: of course "balance of an address" is a technically meaningful and consistent thing to define
10:53 < sipa> luke-jr: every output has an associated locking script
10:54 < sipa> an address is a shorthand way to write some (most) locking scripts
10:55 < sipa> that doesn't mean balance of an address is a useful abstraction to show users; you're very correct that it is confusing to people
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10:55 < sipa> however, scantxoutset is an RPC that inherently breaks that abstraction - it exposes the user to a lower level view than a wallet
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10:56 < sipa> just like listunspent, createrawtransacrion, gettxoutsetinfo, ...
10:56 < sipa> i don't think there is a risk for confusion there; you can't use the RPC unless you already understand that internally wallets are backed by sets of unspent outputs
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10:59 < sipa> i would be opposed to a getaddressbalance RPC that reported the sum of the values in all unspent utxos with a locking script that corresponds to a given UTXO
10:59 < sipa> but scantxoutset doesn't do that; it gives the actual UTXOs
11:01 < sipa> luke-jr: another principle perhaps is that you shouldn't try to guess what address a txout was sent to by looking at its script; but given address you can always convert it to a script and see what matches
11:01 < sipa> (the "stealth address test")
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11:08 < gmaxwell> reminder #13298 needs acks
11:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact closed pull request #13619: Include cstring alongside select in compat/glib_sanity.cpp (master...glib-sanity) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13619
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12:17 < jonasschnelli> Windows Gitian Build seems to be broken: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/build/687
12:17 < jonasschnelli> qwin10helpers.cpp:60:37: fatal error: uiviewsettingsinterop.h: No such file or directory
12:17 < jonasschnelli>  #  include <uiviewsettingsinterop.h>
12:18 < cfields> jonasschnelli: see #13171
12:18 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13171 | Change gitian-descriptors to use bionic instead by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13171 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHubAsset 1Asset 1
12:18 < jonasschnelli> cfields: thanks!
12:18 < jonasschnelli> I'll try to test this
12:19 < cfields> jonasschnelli: might want to hold off on trying to build though, things are still a bit bumpy
12:19 < jonasschnelli> okay... thanks.. I'll wait then
12:19 < cfields> at the very lest, there are some changes needed to gitian
12:20 < cfields> oh, the main one was merged already.
12:20 < cfields> at the very least, need to update your gitian :)
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12:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2ea7eb62b21a...619cd29393b6
12:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3c292cc Gregory Sanders: ScanforWalletTransactions should mark input txns as dirty
12:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 619cd29 Jonas Schnelli: Merge #12944: [wallet] ScanforWalletTransactions should mark input txns as dirty...
12:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #12944: [wallet] ScanforWalletTransactions should mark input txns as dirty (master...scandirty) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12944
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12:58 < TechnikPTO> hi all 
12:59 < TechnikPTO> im looking for documentation for source code of bitcoin core
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13:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #13659: build: add missing leveldb defines (master...solaris-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13659
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14:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/619cd29393b6...8f1106da5849
14:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eeeef80 MarcoFalke: qa: Fix some TODOs in p2p_segwit
14:10 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8f1106d MarcoFalke: Merge #13626: qa: Fix some TODOs in p2p_segwit...
14:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13626: qa: Fix some TODOs in p2p_segwit (master...Mf1807-qaSegwitTodos) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13626
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17:57 < achow101> MarcoFalke: would it be possible for you to have DrahtBot check for silent merge conflicts? the ones where git doesn't have a merge conflict but merging results in a compilation or test failure?
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18:26 < luke-jr> achow101: doesn't Travis already check t hat?
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18:29 < sipa> luke-jr: only upon a new push
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18:30 < achow101> luke-jr: only on a new push to the branch for the pr
18:31 < achow101> perhaps it would be possible to make travis rebuild every pr for every new push to master, but I don't think travis would like to rebuild 200+ prs for every push to master
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19:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8f1106da5849...d6b2235ca45e
19:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d6f39b6 Ben Woosley: Drop unused pindexRet arg to CMerkleTx::GetDepthInMainChain
19:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d6b2235 Pieter Wuille: Merge #13630: Drop unused pindexRet arg to CMerkleTx::GetDepthInMainChain...
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19:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13630: Drop unused pindexRet arg to CMerkleTx::GetDepthInMainChain (master...get-depth-in-main-chain) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13630
19:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d6b2235ca45e...90b1c7e5c505
19:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 768981c Cory Fields: build: add missing leveldb defines...
19:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 90b1c7e Pieter Wuille: Merge #13659: build: add missing leveldb defines...
19:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13659: build: add missing leveldb defines (master...solaris-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13659
19:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 7 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/90b1c7e5c505...ad552a54c56a
19:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4279da4 John Newbery: [wallet] GetBalance can take an isminefilter filter....
19:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ef7bc88 John Newbery: [wallet] Factor out GetWatchOnlyBalance()
19:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7110c83 John Newbery: [wallet] deduplicate GetAvailableCredit logic
19:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13566: Fix get balance (master...fix_get_balance) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13566
19:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ken2812221 opened pull request #13660: [depends] Don't build Qt dependencies if it doesn't support Qt (master...qt-packages-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13660
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20:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ad552a54c56a...1e90862f5d0b
20:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 02bbc05 Jesse Cohen: Rescope g_enable_bip61 to net_processing
20:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1d4df02 Jesse Cohen: [move-only] Move things only referenced in net_processing out of header file
20:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6690a28 Jesse Cohen: Restrict as much as possible in net_processing to translation unit...
20:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13417: [net] Tighten scope in net_processing (master...net_processing-disentangle) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13417
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20:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1e90862f5d0b...9a1ad2c5cbdf
20:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ac51a26 Luke Dashjr: During IBD, when doing pruning, prune 10% extra to avoid pruning again soon after...
20:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9a1ad2c Pieter Wuille: Merge #11658: During IBD, when doing pruning, prune 10% extra to avoid pruning again soon after...
20:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #11658: During IBD, when doing pruning, prune 10% extra to avoid pruning again soon after (master...ibd_prune_extra) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11658
20:19 < gmaxwell> \O/ mergefest
20:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9a1ad2c5cbdf...1329ef1f00e4
20:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b7f5650 Ben Woosley: Extract CWallet::MarkInputsDirty...
20:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 17e6aa8 Ben Woosley: Privatize CWallet::AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe...
20:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1329ef1 Pieter Wuille: Merge #13651: [moveonly] Extract CWallet::MarkInputsDirty, and privatize AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe...
20:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13651: [moveonly] Extract CWallet::MarkInputsDirty, and privatize AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe (master...mark-inputs-dirty) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13651
20:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1329ef1f00e4...b25a4c2284ba
20:31 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9a44db2 Anthony Towns: Add outputtype module...
20:31 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d58055d Anthony Towns: Move AddAndGetDestinationForScript from wallet to outputype module...
20:31 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b9024fd Anthony Towns: segwit support for createmultisig RPC
20:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #13072: Update createmultisig RPC to support segwit (master...signmultisig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13072
20:34 < sipa> done.
20:34 < gmaxwell> encore! encore!
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 14 00:00:16 2018