--- Log opened Thu Oct 04 00:00:27 2018
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02:13 < fanquake> Will there still be a meeting tomorrow morning? I'm hoping I might actually be able to join between flights 
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05:59 < harding> Each week, I look through the previous week's commits for interesting ones to document for the Optech newsletter.  As part of that weekly routine, I'd be willing to write up any undocumented notable changes for the release notes---hopefully significantly cutting down on the work during the RC cycle---but I'd like suggestions on the best way to do that.  Should I submit a PR each week to update the release notes?  Or save up my 
05:59 < harding> work for a monthly PR?  Or maybe  maintain the release notes on the devwiki full time?  Or something else?
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06:08 < sipa> harding: that sounds awesome
06:09 < sipa> though i think weekly is probably too ofte 
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06:12 < harding> sipa: yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I guess I'll start with monthly and we can tweak it from there.
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10:17 < gmaxwell> [OT] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies?srnd=businessweek-v2  pervasive chinese backdoor chips found in supermicro hardware, chinese AWS.
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10:31 < wumpus> yes, ouch.
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12:00 < promag> wumpus: having a family dinner, can you add #14291 to HP?
12:00 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14291 | wallet: Add ListWalletDir utility function by promag · Pull Request #14291 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:00 < promag> it's a dependency for #14350 and #13100
12:00 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14350 | Add WalletInfo class by promag · Pull Request #14350 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:01 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add dynamic wallets support by promag · Pull Request #13100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:02 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:02 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 19:02:49 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:02 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:02 < wumpus> promag: sure
12:02 < promag> hi
12:03 < promag> thanks!
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12:04 < phantomcircuit> hi
12:05 < jcorgan> i bet many are sleeping or about to
12:05 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
12:05 < wumpus> yes—I expect so too
12:05 < jonasschnelli> hi
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12:05 < wumpus> don't know if we really have things to discuss without the people in Tokyo
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12:05  * jonasschnelli is sad to miss SB tokyo
12:06  * wumpus too
12:06 < jcorgan> #MeToo
12:06 < jcorgan> sri
12:06 < jonasschnelli> heh
12:06 < wumpus> lol
12:07 < gmaxwell> hi
12:07 < wumpus> anything for high-priority for review? or what can be merged? I haven't been able to focus much this week
12:07 < phantomcircuit> #14335 and maybe #14336
12:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14335 | net: refactor: cleanup ThreadSocketHandler by pstratem · Pull Request #14335 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14336 | net: implement poll by pstratem · Pull Request #14336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:08 < phantomcircuit> i still cant exactly ping down why some of the commits in 14336 fail tests but the final one doesn't
12:08 < phantomcircuit> and they seem like races more than actual failures
12:08 < wumpus> do they fail locally for you too?
12:08 < wumpus> or only on travis?
12:09 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, only on travis
12:09 < wumpus> aww
12:09 < wumpus> I can try running them in some weird environments
12:10 < phantomcircuit> 14335 however passes everywhere
12:10 < gmaxwell> you might try inserting sleeps to see if you can trigger something locally.
12:10 < wumpus> so if they are races they only happen part of the time, not always
12:10 < phantomcircuit> it's just refactoring no logic changes at all now
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12:11 < wumpus> well if it causes test failures there might be logic changes you don't know about
12:11 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i can randomly trigger the rpc_zmq.py test to fail
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12:11 < wumpus> I don't think a pure refactoring can result in more races
12:11 < phantomcircuit> but it's zmq so i would expect it to be very racey
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12:11 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, yeah that pr doesn't have any issues
12:11 < wumpus> no, zmq is not inherently racy
12:11 < phantomcircuit> it's just the one implementing poll()
12:11 < phantomcircuit> (this is why it's two separate pulls)
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12:12 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, the test is though, it starts the node and then instantly makes an rpc call for zmq notifications
12:12 < wumpus> (maybe our use of it is, I don't now)
12:12 < wumpus> ohh
12:12 < jcorgan> the test is written in a racy way as described
12:12 < phantomcircuit> cant probably make that more robust but im not super familiar with the testing framework
12:13 < wumpus> someone needs to take a look at it; we can't merge something that makes any test randomly fail, as it wil keep coming back in later PRs
12:13 < wumpus> #action reviews #14336
12:13 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14336 | net: implement poll by pstratem · Pull Request #14336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:14 < gmaxwell> We should just fix that test, but is the zmq test the only one that fails?
12:14 < gmaxwell> There is something other tests do to wait until the node is ready.
12:15 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, feature notifications fails on windows
12:15 < wumpus> yes, fixing the test is acceptable too if it is broken
12:15 < phantomcircuit> but im having trouble replicating that for a whole bunch of reasons
12:16 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, they wait on nodes to be synchronized i think, but that doesn't apply to the zmq test
12:16 < phantomcircuit> (again im not exactly sure though)
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12:16 < jcorgan> which file is the zmq test
12:17 < wumpus> if there's multiple nodes connected to each other they need to wait to be synchronized
12:17 < phantomcircuit> jcorgan, test/functional/rpc_zmq.py
12:17 < wumpus> test/functional/rpc_zmq.py
12:17 < wumpus> yes
12:17 < phantomcircuit> jynx
12:19 < wumpus> okay, any other topics?
12:19 < jcorgan> it's the assert on L31 that non-deterministically fails?
12:19 < gmaxwell> I could give a little update on our work on set recon relay which has been ongoing.
12:19 < wumpus> lol that test doesn't even *test* zmq
12:20 < wumpus> I don't understand how it can fail
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12:20 < wumpus> it jst tests some administrative rpc functions related to zmq
12:21 < wumpus> gmaxwell: might be better to do that when there's more people
12:21 < gmaxwell> OK
12:21 < wumpus> but, is up to you
12:21 < jcorgan> maybe it's interface_zmq.py
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12:22 < wumpus> jcorgan: that's the one that really tests the zmq interface, yes
12:22 < gmaxwell> wumpus: well, I'd like to-- the people who aren't here will probably hear about it at the events there at. :)
12:22 < jcorgan> right, but is that the one randomly failing?
12:23 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: I don't understand it, you make P2P changes, and a test completely unrelated to P2P starts failing
12:23 < gmaxwell> wumpus: I guess it can fail if the node isn't up by the time it attempts the rpc?
12:23 < wumpus> unless your poll somehow interferes with libevent, but I wouldn't understand why
12:23 < gmaxwell> like, e.g. poll having a sleep timeout during startup where the select didn't could slow down bringup slightly.
12:24 < wumpus> the test framework is smart enough to wait for the RPC interface to actually work, AFAIK
12:24 < wumpus> (there's this 'warmup' period that it needs to ignore, for example)
12:24 < gmaxwell> if so, then I've got no suggstions. :)
12:24 < wumpus> well it mightb be that this test does something ... special
12:25 < wumpus> #topic recon relay (gmaxwell)
12:25 < gmaxwell> Sipa, gleb, and I have been continuing to work on set recon relay.  Gleb has made a lot of progress with simulations.
12:26 < gmaxwell> In his simulated network topology he shows that the best possible (no 'overhead') relay using 8 byte tx identifiers would use about 44x less bandwidth for relay than what the code currently does.
12:27 < gmaxwell> (optimal would basically be exach node gets exactly 1 inv per tx and no more) Simulations of our recon work don't quite achieve optimality (since we also want relay to be reasonably fast) but end up only using 2-3x the bandwidth of the theoretically optimal usage, which sounds pretty good compared to 44x. :)
12:28 < gmaxwell> Sipa and I (mostly sipa) have been working on optimizing the recon code itself, which is in part important because its performance helps tell us what parameters make sense to propose.
12:28 < gmaxwell> E.g. some benchmark results from last night: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/temp/srr2.png
12:28 < wumpus> nice !
12:29 < gmaxwell> This shows how long it takes to do the computation for reconciling 150 differences (which is a good high watermark from glebs simulations), as a function of how long the short-txids we're using (in bits).
12:30 < gmaxwell> The graph shows that some sizes are much faster in the implementation currently, for optimization (and the number theory that enables those optimizations) reasons.
12:30 < wumpus> 44x less bandwidth is more than impressive, I didn't know that the invs were such a large part of the traffic
12:31 < gmaxwell> Ah! that figure is perfectly efficient invs (one inv per host) vs invs in what we do today.  Invs are a majority of traffic on nodes right now, but those figure ignore all the non-inv traffic.
12:31 < wumpus> but that's similar to my surprise how much (at least of outgoing traffic) is 'reject' messages
12:31 < gmaxwell> So in terms of actual total traffic impact, maybe halve those numbers for your expectations.
12:32 < sipa> ohai
12:32 < gmaxwell> Basically gleb's simulator simulates a plausable bitcoin network topology, and then measures how transactions relay around in it with different relaying schemes, so we can try different ideas and measure their impacts.
12:32 < gmaxwell> So in any case, lots of progress going on there.
12:32 < wumpus> is this simulator available anywhere?
12:33 < gmaxwell> Not yet. Sipa and I need to convince gleb that his code is not too awful, I think.
12:34 < wumpus> no hurry, though it would be nice to have, if it was available we'd want to link it
12:34 < gmaxwell> Absolutely.
12:34 < gmaxwell> In any case, right now we're still in a fairly researchy mode, looping over detailed ideas and feeding the results back in to tell us what to try next.
12:35 < gmaxwell> Thats all I've got for now, unless sleepwalking sipa has more.
12:36 < sipa> not really
12:36 < wumpus> you could say so, it's .. 04:36 there?
12:37 < wumpus> thanks for the update!
12:38 < wumpus> I guess it's time to close the meeting
12:39 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:39 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Oct  4 19:39:04 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:39 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.html
12:39 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.txt
12:39 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.log.html
12:39 < gmaxwell> Sounds good.
12:39 < sipa> i wasn't trying to make the meeting even (i completely.forgot about it), but jetlag made me randomly wake up
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12:43 < gmaxwell> That ZMQ rpc test looks like it has a pretty poor ratio of speed to utility. It doesn't really even seem to actually test anything other than calling the RPCs doesn't catch fire.
12:44 < gmaxwell> Which is not totally useless, but not terribly useful either.
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12:45 < jcorgan> are there other tests like that one for other RPC calls?
12:47 < jcorgan> i don't see any others that just test that one thing
12:49 < gmaxwell> I was going to write that it would probably make sense to merge all 'just run the thing and don't test anything much' tests into a single test, but ZMQ might already just be seperate because the software might not be compiled with ZMQ support.
12:49 < jcorgan> well it uses the skip check, those could be rolled in
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12:53 < jcorgan> i guess that would apply to the whole module, though, so no
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13:44 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it's separate so it doesn't run when zmq isn't available
13:45 < phantomcircuit> and that seems to be a module level thing
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15:54 < kanzure> yes we were busy in tokyo
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18:34 < instagibbs> i think im finally over my jetlag, which means i missed the meeting
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18:50 < IceHard> hello all :0
18:57 < IceHard> :) good day to all
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