--- Log opened Sat Nov 03 00:00:55 2018
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00:30 < provoostenator> sipa thanks for the meeting ping. It's on my calendar now, but couldn't make it. ryanofsky: glad to hear "[found by?] sjors bugs" are a thing :-)
00:40 < provoostenator> gwillen: I'll take your offline signing GUI for a spin. A WIP PR seems a good way to get more feedback and make sure this work isn't forgotten if you suddenly decide to retire on a beach.
00:44 < provoostenator> I'm thinking of adding a RPC utility function "deriveaddress" which takes a descriptor and spits out an address. That way you don't need a watch-only wallet if all you need is to generate a fresh address. Can probably reuse code from scantxoutset.
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01:06 < sipa> provoostenator: could be a utility too, in a separate binary
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01:09 < provoostenator> Like #13926 for general purpose utilities? Or maybe for generating / verifying scripts and addresses?
01:09 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13926 | [Tools] bitcoin-wallet - a tool for creating and managing wallets offline by jnewbery · Pull Request #13926 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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01:10 < sipa> provoostenator: i'm thinking there is probably enough that can be done with psbt and descriptors that can be put in a separate utility
01:10 < provoostenator> That said, a slightly more ambitious version of the above command - combined with an address index - could give you the next available address in a range.
01:10  * sipa hates address indexes
01:11 < sipa> anything that requires a full blockchain is imho not worth spending time on
01:11 < provoostenator> Tend to agree on address indexes being total overkill. It might be better to use a wallet at that point.
01:11 < sipa> yes.
01:11 < sipa> that's what they're for
01:11 < provoostenator> It's nice to have an ephemeral wallet though, which would need an address index.
01:12 < provoostenator> (or be slow)
01:12 < sipa> i don't see why; in general making a backup of a file isn't hard
01:12 < sipa> it's nice to know you can *recover* your money with a short string as an assurance; but there's not reason why that can't be slow
01:12 < provoostenator> Plausible deniability. Memorize 24 words, type them in plus a deriviation path.
01:13 < sipa> and give up your privacy to whoever is running the index service
01:13 < provoostenator> James Bond is not going to sit around for hours waiting for a rescan, but I agree it's probably fine in more normal cases :-)
01:13 < provoostenator> It would be your own node.
01:13 < provoostenator> Plausible deniability in this case means having a node, maybe with some coins, but not all your coins.
01:14 < sipa> i don't believe long term everyone having a fully indexed archival node is interesting or reasonable
01:14 < provoostenator> Right, it wouldn't be interesting for everyone, these indexes are optional for that reason.
01:14 < sipa> with bip157 it's also much less needed
01:15 < sipa> (it's still slow, but several times faster to rescan)
01:15 < sipa> and outsourcable
01:15 < provoostenator> BIP157 does make sense as a faster-enough alternative to an address index for the above use case.
01:17 < sipa> it's not quite the same, but as i said, i think "short phrase to access your coins" isn't a reasonable normal use case if you care about privacy and resource costs
01:17 < provoostenator> But back to the seperate utility. I imagine there's often things that need wallet and or blockchain context. But since code can be reused between binaries, that doesn't have to be a show stopper. 
01:17 < sipa> sure it'd be built from the same source code
01:18 < sipa> like bitcoin-tx
01:20 < provoostenator> Adding psbt and descriptor to support to bitcoin-tx makes sense to me. A generateaddress seems a bit out of scope for that though?
01:20 < sipa> well bitcoin-tx is really designed to operate on transactions
01:20 < sipa> all its commands are things that modify transactions
01:21 < sipa> perhaps psbt can be included
01:21 < sipa> but i think something more traditional does make sense too, where you have a tool that exactly mirrors bitcoin-cli like usage
01:22 < sipa> except it doesn't invoke a bitcoind but does everything locally
01:23 < provoostenator> Right, similar to the offline wallet tool in 13926
01:24 < sipa> right
01:24 < provoostenator> Maybe just call it bitcoin-tool?
01:24 < sipa> hah
01:26 < provoostenator> RPC does have the benefit over being accessible over TCP though, so e.g. a web server can use those utility methods. Another approach would be to make those utilities easier to package in libraries.
01:38 < luke-jr> provoostenator: just make encrypted backups :x
01:40 < provoostenator> luke-jr: that was a great idea until forced decryption became a thing.
01:40 < luke-jr> no different from forced 24 words
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03:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ch4ot1c opened pull request #14647: build: Remove illegal spacing in darwin.mk (master...build/darwin-spaces-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14647
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10:35  * Hayro https://soundcloud.com/hayrullah-coruhlu
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11:46 < wcp> help my phone
11:48 < wcp> fix my phone
11:48 < wcp> done
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12:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #14649: RPC: add weight to mempool entry output (master...rpc_mempoolentry_weight) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14649
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16:25  * Hayro https://soundcloud.com/hayrullah-coruhlu/adam-clay-beautiful-life-dj-hayro-remix-2018?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2hut2dNtPZTitDLOjpYk_9UjS0Vx1eu4ofFqPeEuvZw4L8l5DclGhTVw0
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18:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MeshCollider closed pull request #11256: RPC: add weight to mempool entry output (master...2017-09-add-weight-to-mempool-entry) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11256
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20:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ldm5180 opened pull request #14651: Fix Compiler Warnings (master...warnings) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14651
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20:51 < dongcarl> Banman welcomes more review: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14605
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--- Log closed Sun Nov 04 00:00:56 2018