--- Log opened Wed Nov 21 00:00:27 2018
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00:40 < wumpus> what's up with appveyor? looks like it's failing on every PR
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01:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6b90a2a0e065...267793af8b03
01:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6be7d14 Carl Dong: Properly generate salt in rpcauth.py, update tests...
01:34 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 267793a Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #14742: Properly generate salt in rpcauth.py...
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01:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #14742: Properly generate salt in rpcauth.py (master...2018-11-fix-rpcauth-salt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14742
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01:43 < promag> wumpus: test added to #14670
01:43 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14670 | http: Fix HTTP server shutdown by promag · Pull Request #14670 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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02:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] domob1812 opened pull request #14777: tests: Add regtest for JSON-RPC batch calls (master...batch-rpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14777
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03:10 < promag> no travis job for #14777? :/
03:10 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14777 | tests: Add regtest for JSON-RPC batch calls by domob1812 · Pull Request #14777 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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05:07 < dawud> Hello anybody around?
05:08 < dawud> I have a question about generating keys. I've used bitaddress.org to generate a key pair. It works pretty simply, so I'm pretty confused what could have gone wrong.
05:08 < wumpus> ask general question in #bitcoin please
05:09 < dawud> This is about R values and the algorithm used to generate private keys.
05:09 < dawud> When I generated the key, I took photos and wrote down the 'brain wallet passphrase'. So, I know the phrase is "correct". However, now, when I type the same passphrase, it generates a DIFFERENT private key. 
05:10 < dawud> So, I'm wondering, in core, when generating keys, is there a way that somehow a different R value or something like that could happen, if it was done, say, in an old version of core?
05:10 < phantomcircuit> dawud, still this channel is about bitcoin core development
05:10 < phantomcircuit> which this is definitely not
05:11 < dawud> I asked there. 
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05:14 < wumpus> please, don't insist. you could also try the bitcoin stack exchange (https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/) if #bitcoin yields nothing
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05:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/267793af8b03...16498860546e
05:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa7da06 MarcoFalke: qa: Check specific reject reasons in feature_block
05:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1649886 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #14719: qa: Check specific reject reasons in feature_block...
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05:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #14719: qa: Check specific reject reasons in feature_block (master...Mf1811-qaRejectBlock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14719
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08:55 < stevenroose> Does bitcoind remove the cookie file when closing?
08:56 < stevenroose> Hmm seems so, didn't know.
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09:11 < stevenroose> Is core supposed to make the .cookie file in datadir/.cookie or datadit/chain/.cookie?
09:11 < stevenroose> With chain = chainname
09:12 < stevenroose> I'm reading this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/test/functional/test_framework/util.py#L329
09:12 < stevenroose> But I seem to find the cookie file in the main datadir.
09:12 < sipa> stevenroose: inside the chain specific datadir
09:12 < sipa> if you configure the datadir yourself, that's the one that will be used
09:13 < sipa> otherwise a default is used that depends on the chain
09:16 < stevenroose> sipa: oh wait, so if you set -datadir yourself, it should be top-level?
09:17 < stevenroose> but then that like in test_framework doesn't make sense, right? test_framework always sets the -datadir and still it points at datadir/regtest/.cookie?
09:17 < stevenroose> s/that like/that line/
09:21 < stevenroose> sipa: it seems to always add the network-specific part, no?
09:21 < stevenroose> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/util/system.cpp#L786
09:25 < stevenroose> ah, networkspecific part for mainnet is "" :|
09:25 < stevenroose> k thanks
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09:34 < wumpus> even if you configure datadir yourself, it should use the network-specific subdir
09:34 < wumpus> for mainnet that's top-level
09:35 < wumpus> test chains (testnet3, regtest) have subdirectories
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10:32 < dgpv> script output descriptors multi() expression supports only fixed order of keys, in the order they listed
10:32 < dgpv> but some wallets (copay, for example) uses an approach where pubkeys are sorted by their hex values for each address
10:33 < dgpv> to create an address at index 123, you get all pubkeys for index 123, sort the pubkeys, and then make a multisig address with them
10:33 < gmaxwell> ugh, that prevents you from putting the most likely to sign first, so they take longer to validate.
10:33 < dgpv> this way there's no need to know the order of the keys in a keyring
10:34 < gmaxwell> dgpv: they could have as well defined it by sorting the master keys.
10:35 < dgpv> you only need to know the xpubs of participants, but not the order of how they joined the multisig scheme
10:35 < dgpv> they could not, because they do not know the order beforehand
10:35 < dgpv> some user creates multisig wallets and sends invitations to others
10:35 < dgpv> they may join in arbitrary order
10:35 < dgpv> *creates multisig wallet*, not wallets
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10:36 < dgpv> they also do not know who will likely to sign more often
10:37 < gmaxwell> dgpv: I am not following your statement.  If the keys on an output come from xpubs a, b, c  then they could be put in xpub sorted order.
10:37 < gmaxwell> dgpv: the user almost certantly does, even if the application doesn't provide a way for the user to tell them. :)
10:38 < sipa> dgpv: i don't think it's unreasonable to extend descriptors with a sorted-multi construction
10:38 < dgpv> my point is that this scheme exists, and is used for a long time by at least one wallet
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10:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/16498860546e...d7b0258ff037
10:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3fb09b9 Akio Nakamura: Warn unrecognized sections in the config file...
10:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d7b0258 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #14708: Warn unrecognised sections in the config file...
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10:39 < dgpv> we also do not use this scheme as a default, but support it as an artifact of previous integration with copay/bws
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10:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #14708: Warn unrecognised sections in the config file (master...warn_unrecognized_section) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14708
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10:39 < sipa> dgpv: so far, the bitcoin core wallet also hasn't really supported HD chains created by other software as import
10:40 < sipa> and it still doesn't, but with descriptors that'll hopefully become easier
10:40 < dgpv> one of the use for descriptors is interoperability, as I understand
10:40 < sipa> not really
10:40 < sipa> it's more about flexibility
10:41 < sipa> interoperability may be a nice side effect
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10:41 < sipa> but i don't expect other wallets to support descriptors too, or at least not in a guaranteed to be compatible way
10:41 < sipa> they're just a generic way for representing something more flexible and readable than what we had before in core
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10:42 < dgpv> it would be useful way to create interoperable backups
10:42 < sipa> meh :)
10:42 < sipa> different software hardly agrees on what a wallet is
10:43 < gmaxwell> Generally interoperablity between wallets in a broad sense is misguided... the interoperability depends critically on the functionality, and we can't expect all wallets to have the same functionality.  
10:43 < dgpv> we support a lot address configurations, and could create script descriptors that can be imported into core, or import descriptors from core
10:43 < sipa> sure, but will you keep up?
10:43 < sipa> i don't intend to make descriptors a "standard" - more something that we can easily extend
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10:44 < sipa> i think it's important to provide flexibility, so that power users can build interesting constructions on top - which may include interoperability between wallets
10:44 < luke-jr> dgpv: last year, quite a few wallet software teams met to discuss issues like interoperability, but concluded it wasn't practical
10:45 < sipa> but interoperability as a supported feature is very hard, as it essentially requires the developer teams to coordinate rollouts of new features etc
10:46 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: They're interoperable in the sense that you can send funds from one wallet to another. :P
10:46 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, yeah, but .. context :P
10:46 < sipa> in any case, i have no objection to extending descriptors with a sorted-pubkey-multisig construction if that's useful, but it's not personally a priority to me
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10:47 < luke-jr> I guess note that for literal export/import, one could treat any wallet as JBOK
10:48 < promag> should we allow reindex=1 in conf file?
10:49 < gmaxwell> it's almost always a mistake, but I thought we discussed doing something about that before...
10:49 < promag> or maybe warn?
10:49 < luke-jr> promag: I don't think it would be reasonable to forbid it
10:49 < gmaxwell> I guess one downside of refusing it, is that if someone has a startup script where the only way to pass options to the process is the config file...
10:50 < promag> is there a use case for that? I can't see one
10:50 < dgpv> only popular wallet with exotic scripts that I know is greenaddress, others use standard scripts and maybe different derivation paths.. 
10:50 < sipa> promag: there are people for whom editing the config file is easier than passing a cmdline argument, i think
10:50 < luke-jr> conf file shouldn't deviate from command line parsing too much
10:50 < luke-jr> being stricter with unknown command line options makes sense, but anything more seems like a bad idea
10:51 < sipa> agree
10:51 < gmaxwell> dgpv: use of the particular script is only 1% of what it takes to make things compatible.
10:51 < dgpv> what else? derivation paths ?
10:51 < promag> so not even warn?
10:51 < rafalcpp> maybe warn, or someone will be stuck always reindexing?
10:51 < luke-jr> rafalcpp: I think anyone would notice fairly quickly
10:51 < dgpv> if you allow to specify arbitrary derivation paths with templates, you can support any scheme
10:52 < gmaxwell> dgpv: Seriously, the bitcoin project has been held back for years by misguided efforts towards interoperability with a largely indifferent industry.  It's a bit irritating that you're advocating us burning more time here on this particular point of it, because it would be useful in your product.
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10:52 < rafalcpp> luke-jr: if some RPC for getting general "state" of node could include misc warninings, it could remind there
10:53 < sipa> gmaxwell: no need for that
10:53 < sipa> i'm sure dgpv is just earnestly trying to understand the issue
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10:53 < luke-jr> rafalcpp: "hmm, every time i restart my node it takes days to work again" is a stronger warning than anything we can do
10:54 < dgpv> actually this is new info for me, about the fact that interoperability is not important
10:55 < sipa> dgpv: of course interoperability is important, but it comes at a high cost
10:55 < sipa> and i think the space, and the concept of what wallets are and try to be is just evolving too fast to focus on it
10:55 < promag> luke-jr: +1
10:56 < promag> thanks for the feedback
10:56 < sipa> dgpv: for example, how to deal with change, or backups, or multiple wallets, or hardware devices, ...
10:56 < sipa> are all ways in which wallets can differ in ways that make them hard to interoperate
10:57 < luke-jr> coming soon: or Lightning channels
10:57 < sipa> some software insists that 'the blockchain is your wallet' and everything except a seed can be recovered from the chain
10:57 < luke-jr> x.x
10:57 < sipa> luke-jr: exactly
10:57 < rafalcpp> luke-jr: what about a server, it will just have 80% of uptime for bitcoind unstead of 99% for unclear reason. Wouldnt't RPC getblockchaininfo -> "warnings" field make sense? Maybe not, but we could make it a place admins know to look at first when troubleshooting. "doing-reindex". Maybe later also "no-peers", and some other. Just idea
10:58 < sipa> dgpv: when you include multiparty or multidevice things, you complicate things further, even beyond just the script involved (for example, how do the different parties interact to construct a transaction)
11:00 < dgpv> sipa: but IMO the most important part is how to specify where to find your UTXO - how to generate the addresses 
11:00 < sipa> dgpv: even that differs between wallets
11:00 < dgpv> sipa: the most important for interoperability - you can have your money even if you have a backup from now-unsupported wallet
11:01 < sipa> dgpv: emergency recovery is a whole lot easier to support than full interoperability though
11:01 < dgpv> sipa: but what differs is scripts, derivation paths, and maybe pubkey order
11:02 < sipa> i'm not sure what you're arguing for now
11:02 < sipa> all i'm saying is that i don't think it makes sense to commit to "bitcoin core aims to be interoperable with software X"
11:03 < sipa> if descriptors are flexible enough to support emergency recovery from wallets created by software X, great, use it
11:04 < dgpv> sipa: actually my initial question was should I submit a PR with change for sortedmulti() or just create an issue on bitcoin core github 
11:04 < dgpv> sipa: got a suggestion to ask here first
11:04 < sipa> up to you
11:05 < dgpv> sipa: I got my answer, so thank you for the time you expended answering me
11:05 < luke-jr> dgpv: I think the existing sorted multi PR should get merged first
11:05 < dgpv> it is there ?
11:05 < luke-jr> not for HD, just in general
11:06 < sipa> there's also a bip for it i think
11:06 < luke-jr> #8751
11:06 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8751 | RPC: Add parameter to addmultisigaddress / createmultisig to sort public keys by afk11 · Pull Request #8751 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:07 < luke-jr> looks like it needs someone to rebase it
11:07 < luke-jr> actually, I probably already did
11:08 < luke-jr> dgpv: here, you can submit this if you want: https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/pull/new/sort-multisigs-0.17
11:08 < luke-jr> although I don't know if it needs *more* rebasing..
11:08 < luke-jr> probably
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11:16 < dgpv> luke-jr: that PR is about adding a single multisig address, and that can be sorted on client, so I don't think it would be useful
11:16 < dgpv> luke-jr: sorting is useful if you are creating many addresses from xpubs
11:18 < dgpv> luke-jr: ah, sorry, i'm mistaken
11:18 < sipa> dgpv: well is all of this useful at all before we even support importing descriptors?
11:19 < sipa> right now, for multisig, the only thing we can do is import individual things
11:19 < luke-jr> dgpv: what you're talking about is just a repeated form of that
11:21 < dgpv> actually, I'm not mistaken - createmultisig takes only pubkeys, not xpubs
11:24 < dgpv> sipa: I see. so maybe sometime in the future, if core supports importing xpubs to create a sequence of multisig addresses from it
11:24 < dgpv> sipa: then sortetmulti may become relevant
11:24 < dgpv> sipa: until then, no need.
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15:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #14778: A few minor formatting fixes and clarifications to descriptors.md (master...descriptors_doc_update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14778
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16:23 < gmaxwell> Stackexchange deleted the question, but this person: https://github.com/rollmeister/bitcoin-armv8/blob/master/src/crypto/sha256.cpp  showed up asking some questions about optimizing sha256d64 for arm, he says the code he has there speeds up his sync 2x.
16:23 < gmaxwell> "I have made progress and while the current implementation is 20% slower than it could be it is still five times faster than before and think I will settle for that. Details are in my bitcoin-armv8 repo. It is reindexing my copy of the bitcoin blockchain at over double the pace."
16:23 < gmaxwell> so we might want to steal that code. :P
16:25 < luke-jr> theft is bad
16:25 < gmaxwell> obviously I mean friendly stealing.
16:25 < luke-jr> :P
16:26 < gmaxwell> (I mean considering he's just transliterating our existing optimization to arm, I doubt he'd mind. :P )
16:26 < luke-jr> eh? if we already have it, what is there to copy?
16:26 < sipa> gmaxwell: i assume it's this person: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13401#issuecomment-439891165
16:26 < sipa> luke-jr: we don't have optimized code for ARM
16:26 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: we have it for x86.
16:27 < luke-jr> ah
16:27 < gmaxwell> he's converting the x86 optimized functions to the arm analogs.
16:27 < gmaxwell> sounds like he could use a bit of help in part of it too.
16:27 < gmaxwell> (and also help with the build system parts)
16:27 < zib> 2.5 weeks to sync on the RPi instead of 5 :D 
16:28 < gmaxwell> zib: hey, that would be a pretty big improvement. :P
16:30 < zib> Agreed. A bit more polished turd :D But I assume it's for all block validation not just reindexing?
16:30 < gmaxwell> zib: yes, these speedups are for all block validation, reindexing is just a nice benchmark.
16:31 < zib> Got it. Then it's pretty nice.
16:31 < gmaxwell> For compact block relay the speedup should be pretty close to the function speedup in most cases, since its bottlenecked on hashing. (e.g. 5x)
16:32 < zib> I need to figure out why the RPi can't handle encrypted swap (regardless of how heavy the encryption is)
16:32 < zib> Want to have the swap encrypted on the full node + ln but it dies as soon as it start swapping.
16:33 < zib> And you really need a swap on those little things :P
16:34 < gmaxwell> zib: stick a fan on it.
16:35 < gmaxwell> back in the day, some people would talk about 'windows quality hardware' -- basically windows crashed so much that you could release a pretty faulty system and people wouldn't notice since even if it crashed a couple times a week that was still 10x fewer than windows itself and not noticible...
16:36 < gmaxwell> it seems the arm board vendors saw that and said "hold my beer".  mobile devices end up heavily throttled due to being battery powered... I've never owned one that wouldn't crash or corrupt data under real load.
16:37 < gmaxwell> (Novena comes closest to okay, but even that, if I put the libsecp256k1 tests on it in a loop, it eventually shuts off with a thermal overload, unless I add a fan)
16:37 < zib> Didn't check if it's crashing from overheating but I guess it's possible.
16:38 < zib> Better just run it inside the fridge.
16:38 < phantomcircuit> zib, ensure you're power supply isn't browning out
16:38 < zib> phantomcircuit: I thought that at first but tried 2 different official adapters
16:39 < phantomcircuit> zib, ok but like monitor the 5v rail and see what happens at full load
16:39 < zib> But like there's no problem if its a normal swap. I doubt the encryption brings it over the edge power wise.
16:39 < phantomcircuit> also if you're swapping to an encrypted sdcard you're going to be sad
16:39 < sipa> zib: raspberry pi in a fridge == device that consumes as much as a desktop PC with a few % of the computation power :p
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16:39 < zib> sipa: :D not a dedicated fridge
16:40 < phantomcircuit> zib, doesn't matter a refrigerator is super inefficient
16:40 < phantomcircuit> they're relying on the insulation
16:40 < zib> I was just joking man :D
16:40 < gmaxwell> hard to tell, poe's law for small computers.
16:40 < zib> I like these tiny devices. Esp the RPi Zero. Got one for monitoring the wind+rain, one to turn off my sprinkler if there's been rain. One to open/close the front gate. 
16:41 < zib> And resin coated one to put on a bouey in the ocean. USB-connector rusted but the board was fine :D 
16:41 < zib> *buoy
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18:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #14780: PSBT backports to 0.17 (0.17...201811_psbt_backports_0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14780
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19:32 < anxing> get info
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19:33  * luke-jr stabs buggy linters
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21:04 < meshcollider> luke-jr: its not the linter...
21:04 < meshcollider> i think you can make it happy just by changing the code
21:05 < luke-jr> meshcollider: ?
21:05 < meshcollider> remove the account alias
21:05 < luke-jr> that'd reintroduce a bug
21:05 < meshcollider> the account alias was removed for a reason
21:05 < meshcollider> it should accept "*" but it should not accept account="*"
21:06 < luke-jr> why not? that's exactly how you'd specify it..
21:07 < meshcollider> as of 0.18 it would be specified with the dummy name or not at all
21:08 < luke-jr> as of 0.18, it will hopefully be trusted_only
21:09 < meshcollider> yes so just use trusted_only and not account
21:09 < meshcollider> account -> dummy was already a breaking change so dummy -> trusted_only is fine
21:10 < luke-jr> meshcollider: it's not supposed to be breaking existing code
21:10 < sipa> accounts are gone, that already is a breaking change
21:10 < sipa> one that was properly deprecated first
21:11 < luke-jr> sipa: despite the name, it's not used for an account in this case
21:12 < sipa> then there is no reason to use that name, right
21:12 < luke-jr> sipa: the parameter was either null or "*" for "total wallet balance" calculated differently, or an account name
21:12 < luke-jr> sipa: the reason to use the name is that existing callers use it
21:12 < sipa> luke-jr: all callers that were using the account features had to change their code already
21:13 < meshcollider> ^
21:13 < sipa> presumably that includes even this argument
21:13 < luke-jr> but this doesn't use the account features, only the "account" parameter name
21:13 < luke-jr> to indicate something that is not account-related
21:13 < meshcollider> all uses of "account" parameter name have already been broken
21:13 < sipa> because before we discovered it actually had an impact on confirmations, it was an account related thing
21:13 < meshcollider> so dont add it back
21:13 < luke-jr> sipa: it wasn't in this use case
21:13 < sipa> this is purely incidental
21:14 < luke-jr> hardly "discovered" when it was known/documented behaviour that people rely on
21:14 < luke-jr> eg, I use it for my tax calculations
21:15 < meshcollider> do you use account="*" ?
21:15 < luke-jr> yes
21:15 < luke-jr> oh, as opposed to positional parameters? not sure
21:15 < luke-jr> looks like I am using positional, but that's not really the point
21:16 < meshcollider> im not suggesting we break positional parameters
21:16 < meshcollider> noone should be using any account named parameter now
21:16 < luke-jr> if you were using named params, you HAD to use the name "account" for this
21:16 < meshcollider> HAD to but not now
21:16 < meshcollider> because accounts have been deprecated and removed the proper way, so people should migrate to the new name
21:17 < luke-jr> there was no new name yet
21:17 < meshcollider> it was called dummy
21:17 < meshcollider> and you are changing to trusted_only
21:17 < luke-jr> dummy never worked
21:17 < meshcollider> either way, its not called accounts
21:18 < meshcollider> yes so fix the behaviour of dummy, dont revert back to deprecated accounts :(
21:18 < meshcollider> the name change dummy -> trusted_only is good though
21:19 < luke-jr> so that there's literally no way for someone to write code that works with 0.16 and 0.17.1?
21:19 < luke-jr> (using named args)
21:19 < meshcollider> thats generally how breaking changes work, yes
21:19 < luke-jr> there's a deprecation step to avoid that
21:19 < luke-jr> and there's no reason to break in this case
21:21 < meshcollider> keep the "dummy" alias as well as "trusted_only" then
21:22 < luke-jr> why? "dummy" was never used for this
21:23 < meshcollider> Oh I think I see what you mean. The account alias can be kept in the backport to 0.17.1 but not in master
21:24 < meshcollider> dont add it to master
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21:31 < luke-jr> not sure if my ok got through before freenode d/c me, but no compat in master, just in 0.17 sounds reasonable
21:34 < meshcollider> thanks :)
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21:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #14781: [0.17] Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") (master...bugfix_rpc_getbalance_acctstar-0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14781
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21:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #14781: [0.17] Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") (master...bugfix_rpc_getbalance_acctstar-0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14781
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21:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #14782: [0.17] Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") (0.17...bugfix_rpc_getbalance_acctstar-0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14782
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 22 00:00:28 2018