--- Log opened Tue May 05 00:00:11 2020
00:00 < achow101> one of my concerns is whether we should even try to do this for descriptor wallets now
00:00 < jonasschnelli> the code needs to be ready to support both formats
00:00 < achow101> or if it's too late
00:00 < jonasschnelli> since you dont want to abandon old wallets
00:01 < sipa> achow101: you mean *only* for descriptor wallets?
00:01 < achow101> jonasschnelli: my idea was to make it a descriptor wallets only thing
00:01 < jonasschnelli> yeah. that would be an ideal time
00:01 < sipa> i think that's crazy
00:01 < achow101> the reasoning being that since descriptor wallets is a wholly new thing, might be a good time to also bring in a new disk format
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00:02 < sipa> if will complicate maintaining support for legacy wallets, by duplicating all storage level stuff work now for bdb and whatever is chosen
00:02 < sipa> imo it's something to do completely orthogonally
00:02 < jonasschnelli> sipa: but you have to support both storage backends anyways. right?
00:02 < achow101> sipa: how so?
00:02 < achow101> the thought was that legacy wallets would only use bdb, and descriptor wallets only the new thing
00:03 < achow101> then whenver we get around to killing legacy wallets, bdb goes with it
00:03 < sipa> achow101: yeah, i think that's crazy
00:03 < sipa> you'll need two walletdb
00:03 < jonasschnelli> If an storage upgrade is required for legacy wallets (which would be a no-go IMO), it could go over bitcoin-wallet (where we still need both storage backend in the code)
00:03 < sipa> you'll need two walletdb.cpp's
00:03 < jonasschnelli> yes.
00:03 < sipa> and you'll duplicate work for all improvements that aren't specific to descriptor wallets
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00:03 < jonasschnelli> I once tried to make the storage backend flexible, changable,... not very easy
00:04 < achow101> but you need that already
00:04 < sipa> and it seems completely unnecessary
00:04 < sipa> as long as what is exposed is a key-value store, the choice of storage format can be independent of what the keys in it meam
00:04 < sipa> and sure, descriptor walleta would by default by the new thing
00:05 < jonasschnelli> yes. it needs a new layers.
00:05 < sipa> and.old wallets would generally be the old thing
00:05 < achow101> sipa: I think you could still get it to be shared even with different db backends
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00:05 < sipa> achow101: yes, if the ly're orthogonal
00:05 < achow101> i get that the separation doesn't make sense technically. but i'm also trying to make it a logical separation to
00:06 < sipa> i think you shouldn't try to make this a descriptor-wallet-only thing
00:06 < sipa> that risks huge compatibility problems if it doesn't get in by 0.21
00:07 < achow101> and that's the other problem
00:08 < sipa> and there's no need, i think - you'll want to abstract out the storage layer, amlnd if that's done cleanly, there should be no reason why you couldn't supoort a legacy new-format wallet or a descriptor bdb wallet
00:08 < sipa> (perhaps you wouldn't want to support creating such things through RPC or whatever - but i think internally you want things separated that way)
00:09 < achow101> well yeah, that was kind of the idea. that in theory you could write a legacy wallet to the new storage, but we just wouldn't allow it
00:09 < sipa> right, but the decision on what to allow can come late
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00:10 < sipa> if things are in by 0.21 you could indeed say descriptor wallets only in the new format
00:10 < achow101> i suppose so
00:10 < sipa> but i think you'll want support for legacy new-format wallets in any caze too
00:10 < sipa> eventually someone may want to run a convert tool to convert a bdb wallet to a new format wallet
00:11 < sipa> if bdb gets dropped
00:11 < sipa> but that process can't convert a legacy wallet into a descriptor wallet
00:11 < achow101> right
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00:13 < jonasschnelli> I think the bdb support can't be drop in near and longterm future.
00:14 < jonasschnelli> If an "tool" (like bitcoin-wallet) would allow the migration from bdb-storage to new-storage, we still would require the bdb support
00:14 < achow101> so bdb's file format isn't that hard to parse so it wouldn't be all that hard to move to new storage
00:14 < jonasschnelli> an it would be foolish to tell people to use a third party tool for that
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00:15 < jonasschnelli> achow101: you mean a simple record by record migration... yeah. maybe. Still would required the bdb dependency... and some parts of our bdb db.cpp code
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00:16 < jonasschnelli> which makes me think supporting both storage backends in the long term future is easier and unavoidable
00:16 < achow101> jonasschnelli: #18836 has a pure python deserializer for bdb files. That with python3's sqlite lib should make a python script that can do a record for record conversion in <200 LOC
00:16 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18836 | wallet: upgradewallet fixes and additional tests by achow101 · Pull Request #18836 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
00:17 < achow101> (the python deserializer is to inspect wallet files to make sure that records are being updated by upgradedwallet)
00:17 < sipa> achow101: wow.
00:18 < jonasschnelli> achow101: I think only python scripts is not an adequate option to a must-migrate approach
00:18 < sipa> i'm surprised and impressed that it's so simple
00:18 < jonasschnelli> Think of the novice gui only windows users
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00:18 < achow101> jonasschnelli: right. my point is that it wouldn't be that hard to do add a function within bitcoind itself and it doesn't require bdb
00:18 < jonasschnelli> also,.. I think it would be non-ideal to tell people to use third party libraries (python stack) to migrate their most crucial database
00:19 < jonasschnelli> achow101: ah. I see. Yes. Thats a good point.
00:19 < jonasschnelli> Just; we where really careful to not force walletupgrade for things like HD, etc. Then we suddenly force people to upgrade due to a storage engine change?
00:20 < jonasschnelli> I'd rather support both storage backends long term
00:21 < achow101> same. I think supporting both would be required for quite a while. then the super long term solution is an upgrade with a minimal tool/function
00:21 < jonasschnelli> achow101: yes.
00:21 < sipa> that's starting to look much more reasonable now
00:21 < sipa> given how simple bdb is to read
00:21 < sipa> not short or medium term
00:21 < sipa> but perhaps long term
00:22 < achow101> sipa: I was surprised too. Unfortunately none of this was documented anywhere and it required rooting around in the source code for a while. at least all the things were in structs in one file in their source tarball
00:22 < jonasschnelli> At one point, bdb depdency could be optional / disabled by default, leaving only the internal conversion tool.
00:22 < jonasschnelli> later, the bdb dependency will be removed and users are forced to upgrade (long long term)
00:23 < achow101> sipa: part of the simplicity is also that we don't use advanced feature of bdb so the page layout is also very predictable
00:23 < sipa> right
00:24 < sipa> sqlite3 is very well defined apparently; all releases back 3.0 can read/write those filss
00:25 < sipa> ah, not perfectly forward compatible :(
00:26 < sipa> i also like that it's just a single file
00:26 < jonasschnelli> sqlite3 would have some nice benefits for large (many tx) wallets allowing some nice queries
00:26 < jonasschnelli> Though I wonder how much of a concern it will be in 10 years and if we would not end up at the same point as we are now with bdb
00:27  * midnight would cheer if bdb went away
00:27 < achow101> i think that bdb isn't that bad of a choice for a wallet file format. my main gripe is that we're using a version that's now more than 10 years old. and also oracle messing with the licensing
00:28 < sipa> achow101: my... experience is different
00:29 < achow101> i'm sure it is :) I know there were a lot of consistency and corruption issues before, but I haven't seen a lot of those recently
00:29 < jonasschnelli> achow101: Yes. And how big would be the risk of repeating that when using another library like sqlite?
00:30 < sipa> my impression is that bdb was origonally designed for large multi-process databases, where there was a dedicated and competent database mantainer who would manually perform tweaking, and upgrades
00:30 < sipa> rather than as an application storage format
00:30 < jonasschnelli> *just send me your wallets, i'm a competent database maintainer.*
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00:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #18882: build: fix -Wformat-security check when compiling with GCC (master...fix_gcc_wformat_security) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18882
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00:33 < achow101> jonasschnelli: with sqlite itself, I would expect there to be few to no compatibility or licensing issues. For consistency and corruption, i'd trust it more than a homegrown format tbh
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00:33 < jonasschnelli> Maybe. Yes.
00:33 < sipa> i believe sqlite is very well tested
00:34 < jonasschnelli> Also,.. it would allow better handling of larger wallets
00:34 < sipa> how so?
00:34 < jonasschnelli> (without more homegrown code)
00:34 < jonasschnelli> A decent option to query stuff if we use not just k/v storage
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00:35 < jonasschnelli> right now,.. all txns are in memory... assume you just want to show the first page of txns (the most recent 10)
00:35 < sipa> i think that's just asking for problems again
00:36 < sipa> if we want a chance of.doing this, it can't be tied to any other changes
00:36 < sipa> and should be just a straight change from one storage format to another (i.e. remain a k/v store, with the same keys and the same meaning)
00:37 < sipa> maybe later (much later...) you could start using other features, but i'm unconvinced that's even worth it
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01:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18883: qt: Fix OpenWalletActivity::open() (master...200505-fix-win) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18883
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04:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #18885: contrib: Move optimize-pngs.py script to the maintainer repo (master...2005-noOptPng) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18885
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05:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #18880: [0.20] wallet: Add BlockUntilSyncedToCurrentChain to dumpwallet (0.20...pr18671-0.20) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18880
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05:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #18887: build: enable -Werror=gnu (master...add_Werror_gnu) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18887
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06:51 < promag> sipa: mind taking a look at #18863?
06:51 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18863 | refactor: Drop unused CScriptVisitor return type by promag · Pull Request #18863 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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06:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag closed pull request #18246: wip: gui: Drop connectSlotsByName usage (master...2020-03-drop-connectslotsbyName) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18246
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07:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ec79b5f86b22...52ce396b2a47
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 708e3c7 fanquake: valgrind: remove rest_blockhash_by_height suppression
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d7120f7 fanquake: valgrind : remove duplicate BCLog::Logger suppression
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 52ce396 MarcoFalke: Merge #18879: valgrind: remove outdated suppressions
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07:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18879: valgrind: remove outdated suppressions (master...remove_outdated_supp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18879
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07:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/52ce396b2a47...fbd522721cb8
07:42 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa13090 MarcoFalke: contrib: Remove optimize-pngs.py script, which lives in the maintainer rep...
07:42 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fbd5227 MarcoFalke: Merge #18885: contrib: Move optimize-pngs.py script to the maintainer repo...
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07:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18885: contrib: Move optimize-pngs.py script to the maintainer repo (master...2005-noOptPng) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18885
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08:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #18888: test: Remove RPCOverloadWrapper boilerplate (master...2005-testNoBoilerplate) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18888
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11:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] robot-visions opened pull request #18890: test: disconnect_nodes should warn if nodes were already disconnected (master...disconnect-nodes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18890
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13:06 < luke-jr> anyone ever seen this before? /usr/include/db4.8/db_cxx.h:59:10: fatal error: iostream.h: No such file or directory
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13:37 < jonatack> luke-jr: i may have seen that once or twice...
13:38 < luke-jr> hmm, looks like bdb got installed without C++ support, yet still installs the header :x
13:38 < jonatack> testing #18870 rn with bdb 5.3
13:38 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18870 | build: Allow BDB between 4.7 and 5.3 without --with-incompatible-bdb by achow101 · Pull Request #18870 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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16:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #18894: gui: Fix manual coin control with multiple wallets loaded (master...2019-11-fix-15725.2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18894
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16:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag closed pull request #17457: gui: Fix manual coin control with multiple wallets loaded (master...2019-11-fix-15725) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17457
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16:37 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fbd522721cb8...60091d20f9bb
16:37 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2b9cba2 Russell Yanofsky: Remove CWalletTx merging logic from AddToWallet
16:37 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bd2fbc7 Russell Yanofsky: Get rid of unneeded CWalletTx::Init parameter
16:37 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 65b9d8f Russell Yanofsky: Avoid copying CWalletTx in LoadToWallet
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16:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider merged pull request #9381: Remove CWalletTx merging logic from AddToWallet (master...pr/atw-nomerge) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9381
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17:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] gzhao408 opened pull request #18895: [wip] unbroadcast followups (master...unbroadcast-followup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18895
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17:53 < meshcollider> ryanofsky thanks for being so proactive with rebasing that PR for 4 years now, good to have the oldest open wallet PR in now!
17:54 < ryanofsky> heh, I don't mind rebasing, but I need to get better at asking for reviews :)
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20:51 < jnewbery> #proposedmeetingtopic removing valgrind from travis PR builds
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22:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/60091d20f9bb...d96fdc2a396f
22:14 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 395c113 Carl Dong: gitian: Limit sourced script to just assignments
22:14 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f5a6ac4 Carl Dong: guix: Make source tarball using git-archive
22:14 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1470160 Carl Dong: guix: Expose GIT_COMMON_DIR in container as readonly
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22:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #18741: guix: Make source tarball using git-archive (master...2020-04-sync-guix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18741
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23:03 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18896: qt: Reset toolbar after all wallets are closed (master...200506-toolbar) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18896
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--- Log closed Wed May 06 00:00:14 2020