--- Log opened Sun Sep 06 00:00:11 2020
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02:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #19891: depends: Fix `make --just-print` command (master...200906-dry) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19891
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04:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/03689317021a...c91f955f4490
04:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 56b018c Fabian Jahr: test: Fix flaky wallet_basic test
04:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c91f955 MarcoFalke: Merge #19887: test: Fix flaky wallet_basic test
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04:07 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19887: test: Fix flaky wallet_basic test (master...flaky_wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19887
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04:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c91f955f4490...68d1f1698f50
04:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2f79e9d Sebastian Falbesoner: refactor: remove unused header <arpa/inet.h> in protocol.cpp
04:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 68d1f16 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19890: refactor: remove unused header <arpa/inet.h> in protocol.cpp...
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04:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19890: refactor: remove unused header <arpa/inet.h> in protocol.cpp (master...20200823-refactor-remove-unsused-include-in-protocol-cpp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19890
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05:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #19893: test: Remove or explain syncwithvalidationinterfacequeue (master...2009-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19893
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08:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] verretor opened pull request #19897: Revert "change blacklist to blocklist" (master...blocklist) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19897
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09:08 < promag> party at #19897?
09:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19897 | Revert "change blacklist to blocklist" by verretor · Pull Request #19897 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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09:30 < achow101> promag: I think nopara's comment sums it up perfectly
09:31 < promag> I didn't realise there's so much ready to jump on these discussions
09:31 < promag> ... so many people ready ..
09:31 < achow101> should've been locked to contributors only after the third comment imo
09:33 < promag> I'll name all my variables blocklist, hope to get more reviewers
09:33 < MarcoFalke> Agree that this should be locked to contributors. Couldn't find the button, though. *Shrug*
09:34 < promag> MarcoFalke: you need to be maintainer X)
09:36 < achow101> MarcoFalke: it's supposed to be a button on the right side underneath the participant icon list
09:36 < MarcoFalke> yeah, I see that. but that is also going to lock out contributors that don't have write access
09:37 < MarcoFalke> I think GitHub still hasn't fixed their permissions
09:37 < achow101> all of the people who can manage issues have "write" access, so that's probably fine?
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09:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] n-thumann opened pull request #19898: log: print unexpected version warning in validation log category (master...log-fix-unexpected-version) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19898
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09:57 < promag> achow101: btw I've added your suggestion in #19738
09:57 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19738 | wallet: Avoid multiple BerkeleyBatch in DelAddressBook by promag · Pull Request #19738 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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10:00 < luke-jr> promag: now if only we could find a way to teach them to review code..
10:01 < luke-jr> achow101: most of us can't manage issues afaik? or have I been specifically excluded for some reason?
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10:04 < promag> I can't add labels on my pulls/issues too
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10:08 < achow101> luke-jr: neither can I, but I also don't care enough to ask someone for the permission to
10:09 < luke-jr> achow101: so you're saying actually block the PR entirely rather than limit real review of it?
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10:18 < achow101> luke-jr: if you really want to review it, you can ask for the permissions?
10:18 < luke-jr> I don't care *that* much to review it..
10:19 < achow101> it also seems reasonable that the frequence contributors group should also have issue management permissions too
10:20 < luke-jr> achow101: I did suggest that [prior to] a few meetings ago, but wumpus didn't like the idea
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10:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/68d1f1698f50...af8135e369da
10:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 637d8bc Benoit Verret: Change FILE_CHAR_BLOCKLIST to FILE_CHARS_DISALLOWED
10:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master af8135e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19897: Change FILE_CHAR_BLOCKLIST to FILE_CHARS_DISALLOWED
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10:37 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19897: Change FILE_CHAR_BLOCKLIST to FILE_CHARS_DISALLOWED (master...blocklist) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19897
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10:37 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Thanks for merging. Hopefully we can focus on important changes now.
10:37 < promag> oh show's over
10:37 < theStack> MarcoFalke: +1
10:37 < luke-jr> disallowed is technically wrong, but whatever
10:38 < luke-jr> hopefully it makes the political commentators happy
10:39 < theStack> yes, i hope there is not another PR coming reverting the previous two ;-)
10:39 < promag> luke-jr: it's not that bad tbh
10:39 < luke-jr> promag: well, it's not about allowing or disallowing anything, but.. it's a var name, so who cares XD
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10:40 < promag> luke-jr: i'd name it lviggiano
10:40 < luke-jr> wut
10:41 < promag> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19897#pullrequestreview-483156783
10:41 < luke-jr> how about `CHARS_THE_OS_IS_BIGOTED_AGAINST` ? :p
10:43 < promag> :D
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10:59 < TallTim> Nice, revisionists are rather annoying and also myopic.
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11:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] lviggiano opened pull request #19900: Revert back to FILE_CHARS_BLOCKLIST (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19900
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11:01 < hebasto> theStack:  ^
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11:08 < elichai2> Damn it 
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11:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #19900: Revert back to FILE_CHARS_BLOCKLIST (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19900
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11:16 < wumpus> ok, if this goes on i'm going to ban people from the organization, i don't care about your political bs don't waste my (and other devs) time with this
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11:19 < sipa> +1
11:20 < luke-jr> sigh
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11:23 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #19901: Avoid locking CTxMemPool::cs recursively in CTxMemPool::DynamicMemoryUsage() (master...200906-pool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19901
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12:09 < elichai2> amiti: looking at #19879, does `m_unbroadcast_txids` need to be ordered?
12:09 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19879 | [p2p] miscellaneous wtxid followups by amitiuttarwar · Pull Request #19879 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] lviggiano opened pull request #19902: Revert back to FILE_CHARS_BLACKLIST (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19902
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12:14 < amiti> elichai2: don't think so? anything specific you're concerned about? 
12:15 < elichai2> not concerned :) just trying to understand the code of that class while reviewing and wondered if the ordering is used or not
12:17 < amiti> gotcha. I don't expect order to be important or relevant, but please fact check me :) 
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12:29 < jnewbery> can someone block lviggiano from the repo?
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12:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery closed pull request #19902: Revert back to FILE_CHARS_BLACKLIST (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19902
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12:31 < sipa> blocked
12:32 < jnewbery> thanks!
12:36 < promag> this means he won't be able to review?
12:36 < promag> that sucks
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12:37 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #19882: depends: Export PATH variable rather passing it to the `call` function (master...200905-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19882
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12:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto reopened pull request #19882: depends: Export PATH variable rather passing it to the `call` function (master...200905-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19882
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13:31 < instagibbs> I don't think this cirrus ci error is my fault, can I get a restart? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/runs/1075836171
13:32 < sipa> instagibbs: done, though it does look quite real
13:35 < instagibbs> ok meanwhile let me try to trigger it locally
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16:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider pushed 9 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/af8135e369da...56d47e19edca
16:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 288b4ff Russell Yanofsky: Remove WalletLocation class
16:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b5b4141 Russell Yanofsky: wallet: Add MakeDatabase function
16:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0d94e60 Russell Yanofsky: refactor: Use DatabaseStatus and DatabaseOptions types
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16:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider merged pull request #19619: Remove wallet.dat path handling from wallet.cpp, rpcwallet.cpp (master...pr/path) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19619
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16:47 < achow101> \o/
16:47 < achow101> Time for sqlite wallets
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18:46 < yanmaani> will that kill the db4 dependency?
18:48 < sipa> no
18:48 < sipa> maybe in a few years, but we need to remain compatible with old wallet files
18:49 < yanmaani> ah, and I guess there's no such thing as a import-only db4 hollowed out shell
18:50 < sipa> even if there was, we couldn't use it
18:50 < sipa> people downgrade after upgrading sometimes
18:51 < sipa> it's of course hard to guarantee that being possible arbitrarily long, but 1 or 2 major versions at least makes sense (which matches our support window)
18:52 < yanmaani> But will new wallets from here on out be made using sqlite?
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19:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] grubles opened pull request #19903: Update build-openbsd.md with GUI support (master...update-openbsd-build-instructions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19903
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19:34 < luke-jr> I think I prefer bdb over sqlite
19:40 < yanmaani> how come?
19:40 < yanmaani> also, why isn't bdb4.8 in the tree, but leveldb is?
19:41 < sipa> leveldb is consensus critical
19:42 < sipa> though for release builds it doesn't really matter, gitian uses pinned versions of all dependencies
19:44 < luke-jr> yanmaani: bdb is time-proven to work reliably and simpler I think
19:44 < luke-jr> yanmaani: sqlite brings nothing much to the table IMO, and it's closed development
19:44  * sipa could not disagree more
19:44 < sipa> bdb reliable? simple?
19:44 < luke-jr> sipa: when was the last time someone had a wallet lost due to bdb?
19:45 < luke-jr> and simplicity is compared to sqlite: there isn't a whole SQL layer involved
19:45 < sipa> luke-jr: me, very recently, after an unclean shutdown... thankfully one without any coins in it
19:45 < luke-jr> sipa: !
19:45 < luke-jr> sipa: 4.8?
19:45 < sipa> 5.3
19:45 < luke-jr> hmm
19:46 < sipa> yes, i agree something like sqlite without the sql layer would be even better
19:46 < sipa> but sqlite is incredibly well tested
19:46 < sipa> so that's a feature i'm happy to take along, we can just ignore it 
19:47 < luke-jr> can we?
19:47 < luke-jr> at the very least we need to figure out safe escaping of stuff (though I suspect sqlite includes that)
19:47 < sipa> no, prepared statements
19:47 < luke-jr> anyway, time will show if sqlite works well
19:47 < sipa> you pass in the data as arguments, rather than serialized as strings
19:48 < luke-jr> sipa: I thought that just let sqlite turn them into strings?
19:48 < luke-jr> but I haven't read sqlite code lately so maybe I'm outdated
19:50 < sipa> luke-jr: i suspect no conversion to string and back is done, but i don't think it matters... regardless of what it does, it means we don't need to deal with the complexity of it
19:50 < yanmaani> sqlite is extremely well tested
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19:50 < yanmaani> IIRC, it uses int representations internally for ints
19:51 < sipa> well we'd pass everything as byte arrays
19:51 < yanmaani> It's not so big, and I think you can use compile flags to gut the SQL engine by some fraction
19:52 < yanmaani> If you're looking to switch database though, why specifically sqlite, and not say lmdb? Or leveldb?
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19:53 < sipa> yanmaani: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18916#issuecomment-670696563
19:55 < yanmaani> Are wallets big?
19:55 < yanmaani> In terms of file size
19:55 < luke-jr> or we can go the KDE route and use MySQL
19:56 < sipa> luke-jr: aaaargh
19:56 < sipa> :)
19:56 < yanmaani> [screams internally]
19:56 < luke-jr> wait, let's stick to sqlite and just use MySQL for the cache
19:56 < yanmaani> [screams externally]
19:56 < luke-jr> (KDE literally uses MySQL for caches)
19:56 < sipa> yanmaani: 100s of KB to megabytes, typically
19:56 < yanmaani> can't you just use both?
19:57 < yanmaani> That would have pretty much all the desiderata
19:57 < sipa> both what?
19:57 < luke-jr> keys in bdb and metadata in sqlite?
19:57 < yanmaani> databases
19:57 < yanmaani> at once
19:57 < sipa> both what?
19:57 < yanmaani> * Reliable - SQLite is reliable
19:57 < sipa> what are the two options
19:57 < yanmaani> Both databases
19:57 < sipa> sqlite and ...?
19:57 < yanmaani> Both SQLite and BDB4.8 for wallet storage
19:57 < sipa> w t f would you want that
19:57 < luke-jr> lol
19:57 < yanmaani> Lots of reasons 
19:57 < sipa> worst of all worlds
19:57 < yanmaani> upgrades are seamless - old versions just disregard the sqlite files
19:58 < yanmaani> downgrades are seamless too
19:58 < yanmaani> the reliability is sqlite's, of course, since those would be used as master by newer versions
19:58 < yanmaani> so you'd have full ACID
19:58 < sipa> i'm not sure what you're suggesting
19:58 < yanmaani> you get a shorter time to tear out db4
19:58 < sipa> if what you mean is use bdb for old wallets and sqlite for new ones... that's what the PR does
19:59 < yanmaani> You use both databases (SQLite3 and BDB4.8) at once. You do not have any internal distinction between "new" and "old" wallets.
19:59 < sipa> ...
19:59 < sipa> wtf does that mean
19:59 < yanmaani> Whenever you open a BDB-only wallet file, it automatically creates a corresponding sqlite wallet
19:59 < yanmaani> When you create a new wallet, it creates a sqlite and a bdb wallet
19:59 < sipa> good lord
19:59 < yanmaani> No, this has lots of good properties!
19:59  * luke-jr backs away slowly
19:59 < sipa> go away, please
19:59 < yanmaani> So, first off, you get the nice properties of SQLite.
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20:00 < sipa> ...
20:00 < yanmaani> You wouldn't have the data problems that bdb has. If BDB crashes, too bad, who cares.
20:00 < yanmaani> But the old versions can still read the BDB version of the database.
20:00 < sipa> whyyyyyyy
20:00 < luke-jr> so you basically mean switch to sqlite, but keep a BDB copy updated in case of sudden urge to downgrade?
20:00 < yanmaani> The code complexity is about the same.
20:00 < yanmaani> luke-jr: Yes. Because then you can tear out db4 faster.
20:00 < sipa> i wish you good luck
20:00 < luke-jr> I don't think that follows
20:00 < yanmaani> If you do this, then everyone switches to the new version, there will be a sqlite file.
20:01 < yanmaani> Unless they migrate from v_nosqlite to v_onlysqlite directly
20:01 < luke-jr> hmm
20:01 < sipa> all the management issues get multiplied
20:01 < sipa> what if files are out of sync?
20:01 < yanmaani> as long as they migrate through one of the intermediate sqlite versions, there will be a sqlite wallet created
20:01 < sipa> what if people migrated one, but not the other, from one system to another?
20:01 < yanmaani> How would you migrate only one of them?
20:01 < yanmaani> If there's only one file, use that
20:01 < sipa> users are stupid
20:02 < sipa> if every user was a system administrator, BDB would be an awesome choice
20:02 < yanmaani> If there's two files, load both and take the one last modified
20:02 < sipa> that's what it's designed for
20:02 < sipa> but users aren't
20:02 < yanmaani> If the users only copy one database file, there's no problem though
20:03 < sipa> seriously, i can't comprehend how you think that makes anything better
20:03 < yanmaani> It makes cross-version migration more seamless
20:03 < sipa> all the issues with the mental overhead of understanding what a wallet is get worse
20:03 < yanmaani> a wallet is the wallet_dat/ folder
20:03 < sipa> that's specifially what we should get rid of
20:03 < sipa> among other things
20:04 < yanmaani> Yes, when db4 is retired you can get rid of it
20:04 < yanmaani> and return to wallet.dat(sqlite)
20:04 < sipa> yay, great
20:04 < yanmaani> But with this approach, you'll never have the problem of "user installed sqlite version but didn't upgrade his wallet"
20:04 < sipa> i don't see how making our database a frankenstein-monster-of-bdb-and-sqlite helps with that
20:04 < yanmaani> because wallet upgrades will be done transparently in the background
20:05 < yanmaani> because it's only temporary - once everyone has upgraded, you can rip out db4 entirely
20:05 < sipa> no you can't
20:05 < sipa> backups need to keep working
20:05 < sipa> even years old ones
20:05 < yanmaani> With "old wallet" and "new wallet", if you're to rip out db4, users will at some point in time have to convert them
20:05 < sipa> yes
20:06 < yanmaani> can't they just be asked to download an old version? But yes, that's a good point otherwise
20:06 < sipa> but i don't see how doing what you suggests allows doing this any earlier
20:06 < yanmaani> In my model, users would never have to upgrade formats manually
20:06 < yanmaani> first they have db4-only wallets
20:06 < yanmaani> then they have db4+sqlite wallets
20:06 < yanmaani> then db4 is dropped, and they have <garbage>+sqlite wallets
20:06 < yanmaani> the conversion would be done silently and transparently to the user
20:06 < sipa> i really really don't see the advantage
20:07 < sipa> even ignoring all the disadvantages
20:07 < yanmaani> easier migration process, no need for users to make the effort of upgrading wallet from sqlite to db4
20:07 < sipa> unless they missed the window during which versions with mixed support existed
20:08 < yanmaani> yeah, but that's still much less user effort isn't it?
20:08 < sipa> eh
20:08 < sipa> it's something that i expect will happen in 5 years or so
20:08 < sipa> maybe more
20:09 < sipa> i'm more concerned about things working in the next release than what happens then
20:09 < yanmaani> You might also just say "we're done with db4, if you load a db4 wallet you will be given the option to convert or exit, you can't just load it"
20:10 < yanmaani> whenever you get fed up with it
20:10 < sipa> and i really don't want to think about all the things that can go wrong with duplicated bdb+sqlite wallets
20:10 < yanmaani> Will you be using sqlite's encryption layer too?
20:10 < sipa> look at the PR, i'm not the author :)
20:10 < sipa> i don't think so
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20:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/56d47e19edca...78cb45d72251
20:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master abac436 João Barbosa: wallet: Avoid multiple BerkeleyBatch in DelAddressBook
20:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 78cb45d Samuel Dobson: Merge #19738: wallet: Avoid multiple BerkeleyBatch in DelAddressBook
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20:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider merged pull request #19738: wallet: Avoid multiple BerkeleyBatch in DelAddressBook (master...2020-08-deladdressbook) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19738
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21:03 < meshcollider> yanmaani: no, not using their encryption stuff
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21:38 < achow101> sipa, yanmaani: armory does something like that. they use some custom binary format that isn't super upgradeable. So to migrate to the new storage method, they make a copy of the wallet in the new storage
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21:39 < achow101> yanmaani: migrating a bdb wallet to sqlite could be done without bdb. The database structure is known, so it wouldn't be too hard to write something that just deserializes the database to fetch the records, then writes them to a new sqlite wallet
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22:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #19905: Remove dead CheckForkWarningConditionsOnNewFork (master...2009-noFork) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19905
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