--- Log opened Thu Oct 29 00:00:00 2020
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01:15 < wumpus> yanmaani: we limit every network to 512 to limit how much memory and executable size is consumed by this
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01:58 < bosch-0> Next Bitcoin Core design call is scheduled for next Wednesday at 9:00AM UTC - https://github.com/BitcoinDesign/Meta/issues/40 - For discussion around this join ##bitcoin-core-gui
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02:14 < vasild> jonatack: so it fails for you too!
02:14 < vasild> Precious!
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03:02 < jnewbery> #proposedmeetingtopic Disable S390x travis build
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03:12 < vasild> jnewbery: isn't that the only one big-endian?
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03:14 < zkao> if maxmempool < current mempool, does anyone know what is the criteria for keeping or dropping txs from mempool?
03:16 < zkao> does higher fee txs make lower fee txs drop from mempool?
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03:18 < wumpus> vasild: yes, that's the only reason it wasn't disabled months ago, it's kind of unreliable, I guess there's a shortage of that hardware at travis
03:18 < wumpus> it's already been toned down to only compiling and running unit tests iirc
03:20 < vasild> does cirrus provide big endian hw?
03:23 < sanket1729> I see that the uses for functions for CHash256().Write(Span) and CSha256().Write(ptr, len) are inconsistent. Is it worth creating an issue to highlight this?
03:24 < sanket1729> I don't know the difference, or which is better but would be great to have those be consistent
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03:32 < sanket1729> It looks like using Span is the better way, I can make a PR for that :) 
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03:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3f512f3d5639...6196cf77e574
03:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d419fde Troy Giorshev: [net processing] Don't add AlreadyHave txs to recentRejects
03:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6196cf7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19753: p2p: don't add AlreadyHave transactions to recentRejects
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03:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19753: p2p: don't add AlreadyHave transactions to recentRejects (master...2020-08-clean-tx-processing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19753
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03:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6196cf77e574...924a4ff7eb62
03:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa56d56 MarcoFalke: fuzz: Properly initialize PrecomputedTransactionData
03:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 924a4ff Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20242: fuzz: Properly initialize PrecomputedTransactionData
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03:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20242: fuzz: Properly initialize PrecomputedTransactionData (master...2010-fuzzInit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20242
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03:57 < fanquake> sanket1729: sure
04:01 < fanquake> wumpus / sipa: the copyright related discussion in #20234 is getting out of control. I'm pretty sure the user "JabbaDesilijicTiure"  is just taking the piss at this point. I've deleted their latest comment, but if they continue you could probably just ban them. 
04:01 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20234 | net: dont extra bind for Tor if binds are restricted by vasild · Pull Request #20234 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
04:01 < vasild> +1
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04:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/924a4ff7eb62...f3727fd73538
04:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7b54d76 Luke Dashjr: Make sqlite support optional (compile-time)
04:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6608fec Luke Dashjr: GUI: Create Wallet: Nicely disable descriptor wallet checkbox if sqlite su...
04:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bbb42a6 Luke Dashjr: RPC: createwallet: Nicer error message if descriptor wallet requested and ...
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04:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20156: build: Make sqlite support optional (compile-time) (master...opt_sqlite) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20156
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04:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f3727fd73538...2e2419711702
04:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8a1c4d Jon Atack: cli -netinfo: various quick updates and fixes
04:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 33e9874 Jon Atack: cli -netinfo: make age column variable-width
04:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 773f4c9 Jon Atack: cli -netinfo: handle longer tor v3 local addresses
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04:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20115: cli: -netinfo quick updates/fixups for 0.21 (master...netinfo-fixups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20115
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04:12 < queip> fanquake: FYI this is same guy that in past days is running around various IRC channels, threatens to kill Bitcoin developers. He rambles about Zeronet (which he ~falsely claims to be top developer of), about politics, bitcoin wiki, uses VPN, switches nicks, runs some scam foundation for "human rights"
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04:21 < wumpus> oh no
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04:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2e2419711702...5b82f253b69f
04:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d0a829e fanquake: build: fix mutex detection when building bdb on macOS
04:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5b82f25 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20195: build: fix mutex detection when building bdb on macOS
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04:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20195: build: fix mutex detection when building bdb on macOS (master...bdb_xcode12_implicit_function_decleration) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20195
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04:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5b82f253b69f...8e9e190ea5ce
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6c0259f Pieter Wuille: Squashed 'src/secp256k1/' changes from c6b6b8f1bb..3967d96bf1
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5803f5f Pieter Wuille: Update secp256k1 subtree to latest master
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8e9e190 fanquake: Merge #20257: Update secp256k1 subtree to latest master
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04:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20257: Update secp256k1 subtree to latest master (master...202010-secp256k1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20257
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06:57 < luke-jr> ryanofsky: I have no idea what you're missing in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20205#issuecomment-718758891
06:57 < luke-jr> ryanofsky: it's not an unrecognised row, it's MISSING ENTIRELY
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07:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8e9e190ea5ce...42b66a6b814b
07:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 01476a8 Russell Yanofsky: wallet: Make -wallet setting not create wallets
07:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 42b66a6 MarcoFalke: Merge #20186: wallet: Make -wallet setting not create wallets
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07:05 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20186: wallet: Make -wallet setting not create wallets (master...pr/nowa) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20186
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07:58 < real_or_random> "we are announcing that travis-ci.org will be officially closed down completely no later than December 31st, 2020, allowing us to focus all our efforts on bringing new features and fixes to travis-ci.com "
07:58 < real_or_random> from https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/migrate/open-source-repository-migration#frequently-asked-questions
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07:59 < real_or_random> but there's also https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/migrate/open-source-repository-migration#q-why-is-travis-cicom-asking-for-write-access-to-my-repositories ...
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08:01 < MarcoFalke> Finally. No travis builds means no travis failures !!11!
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08:03 < luke-jr> sigh
08:04 < luke-jr> "Travis CI will continue to offer a free tier for public or open-source repositories on travis-ci.com and will not be affected by the migration."
08:05 < luke-jr> so it sounds like this is just consolidating platforms?
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08:11 < real_or_random> I think consolidating is the goal
08:12 < real_or_random> but I don't understand the FAQ entry on write access
08:13 < real_or_random> will they have write access or not?
08:16 < luke-jr> sounds like "yes, but we promise not to use it, and are trying to avoid needing it by getting more granular permissions from GitHub"
08:16 < real_or_random> indeed
08:17 < real_or_random> this seems to affect the secp256k1 builds right now... apparently they're migrating the repos https://twitter.com/Mbussonn/status/1320748225838469121
08:18 < luke-jr> we probably trust GitHub's security stuff too much anyway4
08:18 < real_or_random> even though this page has instructions for migrating manually, and doesn't mention that they'll do it for us. And they can't because they need the permissions?
08:18 < luke-jr> is there a post-fetch hook to verify the merge signature?
08:18 < real_or_random> I don't understand what's going on. Maybe they're just moving their server so .com, so there are not many ressources for .org left, and that's why the builds ar slow
08:28 < real_or_random> when I try it for a local fork, it says 
08:28 < real_or_random> " Read access to code, metadata, and pull requests "
08:28 < real_or_random> " Read and write access to checks, commit statuses, deployments, and repository hooks "
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08:36 < real_or_random> I think I understand now... it's a mess
08:37 < real_or_random> The Travis "GitHub App" (which can be installed on repo) does not require read/write access
08:38 < wumpus> heh that sounds overly dramatic for basically just a rename
08:38 < real_or_random> The Travis Github OAuth thing (that you need for logging in on Travis) requires full read/write access to all repos you own.
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08:40 < real_or_random> or not. it only says " Full control of private repositories"
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09:10 < real_or_random> we may want to reopen https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17802
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09:16 < bitcoin-git> [gui] luke-jr opened pull request #125: GUI: Enable changing the autoprune block space size in intro dialog (master...intro_prune_size) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/125
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09:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20262: tests: Skip --descriptor tests if sqlite is not compiled (master...tests-check-sqlite) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20262
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11:46 < luke-jr> #proposedmeetingtopic allowing sqlite wallet regression into 0.21
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11:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20263: Update assumed chain params (master...2010-21assumed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20263
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11:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #20260: wallet: Create named SQLite wallet files instead of wallet directories (master...single-file-sqlite) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20260
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12:01 < hebasto> meeting?
12:01 < MarcoFalke> meeting?
12:01 < jonasschnelli> meeting!
12:01 < luke-jr> wumpus is late! :P
12:01 < MarcoFalke> I volunteer jonasschnelli
12:01 < jnewbery> Marco volunteers, jonasschnelli
12:02 < luke-jr> :D
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12:02 < jonasschnelli> so shall it be...
12:02 < jonasschnelli> #startmeeting 
12:02 < emzy> hi
12:02 < achow101> hi
12:02 < amiti> hi
12:02 < jonasschnelli> lightningbot?
12:02 < hebasto> hi
12:02 < ariard> hi
12:03 < jonasschnelli> #startmeeting
12:03 < hebasto> bad bot...
12:03 < achow101> maybe it's dead
12:03 < jonasschnelli> he refuses to work for me...
12:03 < MarcoFalke> #startmeeting
12:04 < jonasschnelli> however,... lets start anyways
12:04 < jonasschnelli> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james
12:04 < jonasschnelli> amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
12:04 < jonasschnelli> no proposed topics today I guess.
12:04 < jamesob> hi
12:04 < MarcoFalke> two topics
12:04 < jonasschnelli> any last-minute ones?
12:04 < achow101> luke-jr: proposed one
12:04 < MarcoFalke> [11:02] <jnewbery> #proposedmeetingtopic Disable S390x travis build
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12:05 < MarcoFalke> [19:46] <luke-jr> #proposedmeetingtopic allowing sqlite wallet regression into 0.21
12:05 < jnewbery> jonasschnelli: I had one: Disable S390x travis build
12:05 < jonasschnelli> #action someone should update the channel topic: Meeting topics https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
12:06 < luke-jr> but it's not updated?
12:06 < jonasschnelli> Okay... lets start with 0.21 milestone first
12:06 < jonasschnelli> #topic 0.21 milestone
12:06 < jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.21.0
12:06 < jnewbery> jonasschnelli: http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt
12:06 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: yeah. someone should change that link
12:06 < MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/45
12:06 < luke-jr> my topic fits into this one :p
12:07 < luke-jr> #20205 had the milestone removed, but should be a blocker
12:07 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20205 | wallet: Properly support a wallet id by achow101 · Pull Request #20205 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:07 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: can you elaborate why it is a blocker? What is broken without it?
12:08 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: without it, sqlite wallets are missing a unique id
12:08 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: what user function does it break?
12:08 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: BDB did this for us, but sqlite does not
12:08 < MarcoFalke> why would they need one?
12:08 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: not having a unique id is a regression from the old wallets
12:08 < hebasto> is ryanofsky here?
12:08 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: to distinguish between different wallets and renames/moves/copies
12:08 < achow101> the question is what unique ids do for us and whether not having one is a regression
12:08 < achow101> because we don't use them for anything currently
12:08 < luke-jr> achow101: Knots does
12:09 < jonasschnelli> have we expose the unique ID over our APIs or in the GUI?
12:09 < achow101> jonasschnelli: no
12:09 < luke-jr> it's an existing and long standing wallet feature
12:09 < luke-jr> also, we do up until now use them to disallow opening the same wallet twice
12:09 < achow101> it's a "feature" that's a byproduct of bdb and was only used by the bdb handling previously
12:09 < sipa> is it a feature, or a necessary restriction?
12:09 < jonasschnelli> I see luke-jr point... seems like a Knots issue too me. Core has never published or promised unique wallet id... however,.. seems to be easy to fix
12:09 < luke-jr> sipa: the unique id is certainly a feature
12:10 < achow101> I have no strong opinion either way, just that the way the luke-jr originally proposed was not the right way to add an id
12:10 < jonasschnelli> A uuid per wallet seems neat and useful. I agree with luke-jr
12:10 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: I can't fix it in Knots alone; I would have to simply remove all functionality that uses it
12:10 < sipa> i tend to agree that it's a potentially useful feature
12:10 < sipa> but i don't know if it's a feature right now we need to make promises about
12:10 < jonasschnelli> Lets keep an eye on #20205...
12:11 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20205 | wallet: Properly support a wallet id by achow101 · Pull Request #20205 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:11 < luke-jr> adding it doesn't require any promioses.
12:11 < sipa> sqlite wallets will work fine if you load 2 at the same time
12:11 < luke-jr> absolute worst case, we'd just not use it
12:11 < jonasschnelli> unsure if it is a 0.21 bugfix or a 0.22 feature.
12:11 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it's a regression
12:11 < sipa> luke-jr: if we never end up using it, it's hard to call it a bugfix now
12:11 < jnewbery> luke-jr: why do you say you can't fix it in knots?
12:11 < jonasschnelli> I guess adding it in 0.22 when we have 0.21 users creating sqlite wallets is not ideal
12:11 < luke-jr> sipa: the wallet is losing a feature
12:11 < emzy> I think if we have an ID we should use someting that is already pressent. Manybe the first public key.
12:12 < sipa> luke-jr: so what? it's a new type wallet; it has no features except the ones we say it has
12:12 < achow101> emzy: "first" is undefined, especially for descriptor wallets
12:12 < jonasschnelli> I guess having sqlite wallets without ID and some with may lead to bugs.
12:12 < luke-jr> jnewbery: 1) Core wallets will be missing it, and the same problems persist as adding ti later
12:12 < sipa> anyway, i'll comment on thePR
12:12 < luke-jr> jnewbery: 2) if I do anything to the wallet format in Knots, Core historically refuses to consider compatibility with it
12:12 < sipa> i'm in favor of having it, but i don't think it's fair to call it a bugfi 
12:12 < sipa> luke-jr: obviously
12:13 < jonasschnelli> I added the 0.21 milestone to 20205
12:13 < jonasschnelli>  lets continue on GitHub about whether its a bugfix or not
12:13 < sipa> no offense, but what you do in knots isn't relevant in this discussion
12:13 < luke-jr> sipa: see the question I am answering
12:13 < sipa> ok
12:14 < jonasschnelli> anything else that is relevant for the 0.21 milestone?
12:14 < luke-jr> for 0.20, we backported a fix that never got merged to master
12:14 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: Only the things that are tagged
12:14 < sipa> luke-jr: oh?
12:14 < jonasschnelli> please help review 0.21: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/45 thanks
12:14 < luke-jr> part of #18818
12:14 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Yeah, at least we should cherry-pick what was backported
12:14 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18818 | Fix release tarball generated by gitian by luke-jr · Pull Request #18818 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:14 < luke-jr> yes
12:15 < sipa> agree
12:15 < luke-jr> it would be ideal to just get it all merged in tho :p
12:15 < MarcoFalke> Though, it isn't a clean cherry-pick IIRC
12:15 < luke-jr> GitHub doesn't say there's conflicts O.o
12:16 < jonasschnelli> #topic Disable S390x travis build (jnewbery)
12:17 < jnewbery> The S390x builds on travis are very flakey and often fail, presumably because of contention issues at travis
12:17 < luke-jr> (should we also talk about the travis-ci migration?)
12:17 < sipa> is it just s390x?
12:17 < sipa> all of travis is pretty much broken for the secp256k1 repo
12:17 < luke-jr> :/
12:18 < sipa> s390x was the first sign, but soon after, everything stopped
12:18 < jonasschnelli> yeah.. I personally tend to ignore the CI icons ons pulls... its getting non-useful
12:18 < jnewbery> they were added to test under a big-endian platform. I'm not sure how many bugs have been caught by adding it, but I don't think it's worth keeping it given the costs of having to frequently rerun failed builds
12:18 < emzy> Is someone actually using bitcoin core on x390x?
12:18 < sipa> let me check if that's still the case
12:18 < luke-jr> emzy: it's the only Big Endian platform Travis had
12:18 < sipa> emzy: no, it's just to guarantee big-endian compatibility
12:19 < jnewbery> s390x seems to be the least reliable
12:19 < luke-jr> jnewbery: we could have a bot that restarts s390x if the rest pass?
12:19 < luke-jr> but should we wait and see if .com has this issue?
12:19 < sipa> (which, even if nobody actually uses bitcoin core on a big endian platform, is a good test for the correctness of the code, as it tends to expose implemention-dependency that isn't otherwise exposed)
12:19 < MarcoFalke> s390x found at least one bug, so I think it is useful
12:19 < luke-jr> Travis is only giving us 1 month to move, so..
12:20 < jonasschnelli> CIs are loosing their value if there are a large percentage of false "positives" (false fails)
12:20 < sipa> jonasschnelli: indeed, rapidly
12:20 < sipa> luke-jr: is power9 big endian?
12:20 < sipa> (typically)
12:20 < luke-jr> sipa: it's bi-endian, but Travis only supports LE afaik
12:20 < jnewbery> MarcoFalke: was that a new bug that was introduced, or one that had been around for a long time?
12:21 < sipa> luke-jr: on your power9 system, is the OS LE or BE?
12:21 < luke-jr> sipa: I run LE myself
12:21 < MarcoFalke> jnewbery: both. So it was two bugs actually
12:21 < jonasschnelli> I still recommend to continue build run our own CI system. bitcoinbuilds.org is a great start, ... runs more or less smooths since months,... can be easly extended and is cheeper than travis
12:21 < hebasto> and quicker
12:21 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: We need integration with GitHub, otherwise no one will notice a failing build or even check them
12:22 < jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: I have it
12:22 < jonasschnelli> Just not on the master branch....
12:22 < jonasschnelli> Will add it to the GUI repo soon
12:22 < jonasschnelli> It's not complicated
12:22 < luke-jr> who runs bitcoinbuilds.org?
12:22 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: me
12:22 < MarcoFalke> Also, we need to be able to modify the config in-tree, not out-of-tree
12:23 < jonasschnelli> Yes. I'll add that soon.
12:23 < sipa> jonasschnelli: what architecture(s) does it support?
12:23 < jonasschnelli> Not saying it can replace travis,... but it may show the road to a successful and fast CI which we can easly maintain ourselfs
12:23 < luke-jr> can we make it use the GCC compile farm? :P
12:24 < jonasschnelli> sipa: its using libvirt under the hood
12:24 < MarcoFalke> Can it run qemu-s390x?
12:24 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: that doesn't answer.. :P
12:24 < MarcoFalke> I think it is plain amd64 architecture
12:25 < jonasschnelli> Currently it can only run ubuntu18,... but we could add other servers with other architectures or qemu others (slow)
12:25 < luke-jr> GCC's farm has also ppc64, aarch64, sparc64, and mipsel
12:25 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: can it work with just a shell?
12:26 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: how do you mean that? no web frontend?
12:26 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: I mean SSH into GCC's farm and run builds there
12:26 < jonasschnelli> would be possible... 
12:26 < jonasschnelli> contribution welcome
12:26 < luke-jr> another project is already using it for their CI
12:26 < sipa> which project?
12:26 < luke-jr> "HansLambermont uses the compile farm for continuous build integration of the Stellarium project."
12:27 < jonasschnelli> as said... running and expanding our own CI seems to me the best way forward to finally get back to a CI state that is useful 
12:27 < luke-jr> "Stellarium is a free open source planetarium for your computer. It shows a realistic sky in 3D, just like what you see with the naked eye, binoculars or a telescope."
12:28 < jonasschnelli> Our demand of funcionability goes beyond most CI product offerings,...
12:28 < jnewbery> I find it hard to believe that there isn't a reliable CI service that we can use and that we need to invent our own
12:28 < emzy> jonasschnelli: I'm open to help with it.
12:28 < jonasschnelli> emzy: great to hear.
12:28 < sipa> jnewbery: indeed...
12:28 < jonasschnelli> jnewbery: me too.. but our demand is non-normal
12:28 < sipa> does jenkins still exist?
12:29 < jonasschnelli> self hosted?
12:29 < MarcoFalke> jnewbery: All CI services are "lol we only support docker"
12:29 < sipa> MarcoFalke: is that a problem?
12:29 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Doesn't jenkins count as running our own?
12:29 < sipa> MarcoFalke: yes
12:29 < sipa> there is a different between running our own and inventing our own :)
12:30 < MarcoFalke> sipa: They don't run sanitizers or wine or ...
12:30 < jonasschnelli> sipa: it's already invented. It runs since 1 year
12:30 < jonasschnelli> (but missed additional features)
12:30 < jonasschnelli> *misses
12:30 < sipa> MarcoFalke: i'm confused what that has to do with docker
12:31 < sipa> sure you can find a docker image that contains sanitizer-enabled compilers and/or wine?
12:31 < MarcoFalke> sipa: You'll have to start the docker daemon with additional permissions
12:31 < luke-jr> so as far as Travis goes, are we just not migrating?
12:31 < sipa> i think we should keep our options open
12:31 < MarcoFalke> sipa: On travis we can start our own docker daemon
12:31 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: I'd be surprised if travis improved by changing the domain name
12:31 < sipa> MarcoFalke: ok, i probably don't know enough about docker then... i'm not sure what that means or implies
12:32 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, .com has historically been their commercial product?
12:32 < sipa> things could improve with travis.com... i'm not sure
12:32 < sipa> a question is if that requires giving them write permission to the repo, are we open to doing so?
12:32 < MarcoFalke> We used to send them money and support was still ignoring requests
12:32 < luke-jr> sipa: apparently it's write permissions to the user, not the repo specifically :/
12:33 < sipa> luke-jr: we can create a dummy bitcoin-core-ci user or something, no?
12:33 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: they responded to me (maybe not timely or helpfully, I forget the details)
12:33 < luke-jr> sipa: maybe, but I think that violates GitHub's ToS
12:34 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: well response is "lol, we don't support that" or "we'll discuss this internally"
12:34 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: ☺
12:34 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Then DrahtBot would violate GitHub's ToS
12:34 < jonasschnelli> Migrations to .com makes sense to me as we have no alternative ready that has the same depths of testing... and it might get better (or worse?)
12:35 < jonasschnelli> back to the topic.... should we disable S390x?
12:35 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: aha, they have an exception for bots, nm
12:35 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: ACK
12:35 < jonasschnelli> ack
12:35 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: Well, we could move it to cirrus ci for now
12:35 < sipa> if it doesn't work, it should be disabled
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12:35 < hebasto> ack on disabling
12:36 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: Cirrus has BE? :P
12:36 < MarcoFalke> in qemu
12:36 < luke-jr> >_<
12:36 < MarcoFalke> They are working on getting native arm though
12:36  * luke-jr should try getting x86_64 gitian working on his ppc64 host via qemu…
12:36 < luke-jr> (apparently I will have to patch qemu)
12:37 < sipa> even just doing BE builds in qemu for master (and not for every PR) would be a major win over not having it at all
12:37 < sipa> same with some other platforms
12:37 < MarcoFalke> I'll create a pull to move it to cirrus
12:37 < sipa> that'd be great
12:38 < jonasschnelli> Indeed. Building **everything** per each PR push is crazy
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12:38 < jonasschnelli> (but great if it works)
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12:38 < jnewbery> why is it crazy? It seems optimal if it works
12:38 < luke-jr> don't agree on crazy :P
12:39 < jonasschnelli> s/crazy/crazy-system-demanding
12:39 < sipa> if we have the resources, sure
12:40 < jonasschnelli> and it seems like we don't have the resources because large percentages of the builds fail for no reason
12:40 < jnewbery> cpu time is cheaper than developer time
12:40 < luke-jr> fail isn't a resource issue
12:40 < luke-jr> resource shortage would just mean long waits
12:40 < sipa> indeed
12:40 < jonasschnelli> jnewbery: agree... but if you can't be sure whether you have to debug the build or if it was just a glitch in the CI,... its a waste of time
12:40 < sipa> we're not low on resources, it's just broken, and we need to find something that works
12:40 < sipa> whatever we find is better than something that's broken
12:40 < luke-jr> ideally CI would prioritise builds, but otherwise include everything
12:40 < MarcoFalke> I don't think resources are the problem. The problem is the lack of ci infrastructure to trigger builds on working hardware, and someone who maintains the ci infrastructure.
12:41 < luke-jr> eg, put master above PRs
12:41 < luke-jr> maybe have a button where someone can say "I'm actually waiting on this"
12:41 < jonasschnelli> we need a CI-infrastructur-maintainer *duck*
12:41 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: I thought you just volunteered? :P
12:41 < MarcoFalke> I volunteer jonasschnelli
12:41 < jonasschnelli> no way... 
12:41 < jonasschnelli> it needs to be some linux/server crack
12:41 < luke-jr> [19:22:22] <luke-jr> who runs bitcoinbuilds.org? [19:22:26] <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: me
12:42 < luke-jr> we'll say that counts
12:42 < jnewbery> MarcoFalke: I agree. The problem is that we don't have a build manager
12:42 < jonasschnelli> I start stuff,... but not finish them
12:42 < luke-jr> XD
12:42 < sipa> jonasschnelli: i fear this will be a problem if we'd migrate to bitcoinbuilds.org for part or all of our CI
12:42 < sipa> things will break, and will require maintenance
12:42 < wumpus> oh crap don't tell me i missed the meeting almost because of the DST change here *facepalm*
12:42 < jonasschnelli> sipa: we should certenly not migrate before a group of people have commited time to it
12:42 < luke-jr> wumpus: lol
12:42 < sipa> wumpus: still 17 minutes left!
12:42 < jnewbery> I think all these problems are solvable by someone who has the time and desire to figure out the problems. Part of that might be researching different CI options
12:43 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: lol
12:43 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: hah
12:43 < sipa> wumpus: DST is evil
12:43 < wumpus> sipa: yess
12:43 < luke-jr> wumpus: nobody will ever know: the bot is broken to
12:43 < luke-jr> too*
12:43 < jonasschnelli> Ideally we have a team of people willing to maintain the CI
12:43 < MarcoFalke> jnewbery: I did look at all available ci options a year ago
12:43 < jonasschnelli> If it is all on my shoulders,.. it will break for sure
12:43 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: like we don't have our hands full maintaining Core
12:43 < MarcoFalke> As I said most of them are docker-only, so they can't run our scripts
12:43 < dongcarl> If we have actual needs beyond what CI providers offer, then we should pay someone to maintain a CI cluster, no?
12:44 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: there are enought people with server admin skills but no coding skills willing to contribute.
12:44 < luke-jr> dongcarl: that implies we have excess funding
12:44 < MarcoFalke> Only cirrus ci and travis offer full vms
12:44 < jonasschnelli> dongcarl: sure. Paing for it should be possible
12:44 < sipa> funding can be found, i'm sure
12:44 < jnewbery> I expect funding will not be a problem
12:44 < luke-jr> oh, so it's only my funding that's a problem :/
12:44 < luke-jr> sigh
12:45 < yanmaani> luke-jr: Are build servers *that* expensive?
12:45 < jonasschnelli> no... but the maintenance men.hours
12:45 < luke-jr> on that note, funding might be good for security bug bounties too
12:45 < luke-jr> yanmaani: no, but maintaining a CI platform probably is
12:45 < yanmaani> oh right, misread
12:45 < emzy> I think a CI team is better than a single persion.
12:46 < jnewbery> *or woman hours :)
12:46 < jonasschnelli> emzy: for sure
12:46 < jonasschnelli> jnewbery: oops. yes.
12:46 < MarcoFalke> Have people had issues with Cirrus Ci lately?
12:46 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I started ignoring it because when it does have problems I can't restart it
12:46 < sipa> MarcoFalke: i can't remember any... i also have no idea what actually runs on it
12:46 < MarcoFalke> They used to abort sometimes, but setting kvm:true fixed it I think
12:47 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Only the thread sanitizer and one fuzzer
12:47 < sipa> is there any reason why everything couldn't run on cirrus?
12:47 < MarcoFalke> We could also move all jobs to Cirrus Ci, which would probably mean we need to pay them
12:47 < MarcoFalke> free tier is only 8 cpus or so
12:48 < luke-jr> probably cheaper than maintaining our own
12:48 < luke-jr> if it works decently
12:48 < MarcoFalke> probably
12:48 < dongcarl> Do we have any needs beyond what Cirrus provides?
12:48 < jonasschnelli> Semaphore offered us also free service https://semaphoreci.com
12:48 < MarcoFalke> dongcarl: s390x and arm would be nice, but we can use qemu
12:49 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: but that's just Docker?
12:49 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: If it is just docker, it won't work
12:50 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: they have x86 and macOS... all docker I guess
12:50 < MarcoFalke> If someone knows another non-docker ci, let me know, but I don't think there is
12:50 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: hmm, does KVM work inside stock Docker?
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12:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] gwillen opened pull request #20264: test: Make secp tests optional in `make check` (master...feature-optional-secp-check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20264
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12:51 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: we don't use kvm
12:51 < MarcoFalke> I doubt it does
12:51 < MarcoFalke> qemu-user works in docker
12:51 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: we could
12:52 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Patches welcome :)
12:52 < MarcoFalke> I don't have background in kvm, so I can't help here
12:52 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: without a plan, no point
12:52 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: KVM is just virtualising a machine - so you can do anything as if it was real hardware
12:52 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr:  git grep docker ./ci
12:52 < MarcoFalke> then replace docker with kvm
12:53 < luke-jr> sure, but unless Docker supports KVM, it won't help
12:53 < MarcoFalke> jup, I don't know an answer to that
12:53 < jonasschnelli> Other topics?
12:53 < jonasschnelli> (short ones)
12:54 < jonasschnelli> #endmeeting
12:54 < jonasschnelli> \o
12:54 < jnewbery> thanks jonasschnelli!
12:54 < luke-jr> wumpus: okay, you can start your meeting now :P
12:54 < jonasschnelli> hehe
12:55 < wumpus> yes, thanks for picking it up jonasschnelli 
12:55 < dongcarl> MarcoFalke: can we do s390x qemu on Travis x86? Or way too slow for that?
12:57 < MarcoFalke> dongcarl: we can. It should only be a bit slower
12:57 < wumpus> it would be more efficient to do the build using cross-compile, then run only the unit tests using qemu
12:57 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: That is what it does
12:57 < MarcoFalke> So compilation is the same cost
12:58 < wumpus> ok, didn't realize that,I thought it did the whole build on s390s
12:58 < sipa> i thought it was actually running on s390x hardware
12:58 < wumpus> qemu-user is *weird* with differnt endianness though
12:59 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Right now it does (well if it worked)
12:59 < sipa> MarcoFalke: oh ok
12:59 < sipa> so what is the "That is what it does" about?
12:59 < emzy> Is qemu acurate enough to really find problems with BE?
12:59 < MarcoFalke> Though, we can toggle one line in the config to use qemu-user
12:59 < sipa> emzy: definitely
12:59 < wumpus> qemu system emulation is
12:59  * dongcarl wishes Travis had binfmt_misc qemu images
12:59 < wumpus> qemu user emulation is *not* for swapped endianness
13:00 < MarcoFalke> sipa: If the ci system were using qemu, it would cross compile and only run qemu-user
13:00 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Oh, it is not? I didn't know that
13:00 < wumpus> it fails to swap some linux kernel structures
13:00 < wumpus> maybe it's better today but there used to be quite some problems making the platform much stranger than an actual big-endian machine :-)
13:01 < MarcoFalke> I guess the question is: will qemu-user be able to find endian issues in the Bitcoin Core codebase
13:01 < MarcoFalke> We don't care about issues in the linux kernel
13:01 < wumpus> it found some false positives at the time
13:02 < luke-jr> qemu-system has trouble with x86 on ppc due to the memory model differences :x
13:02 < wumpus> no, but it communicates with the linux kernel
13:02 < sipa> this should be easy to figure out
13:02 < sipa> if qemu-user works with s390x
13:02 < wumpus> every field in every structure that's directly or indirectly exchanged needs to be endian-corrected
13:02 < wumpus> that's not a trivial task and error prone
13:03 < luke-jr> whatever CI we go with, couldn't we just buy them a POWER system and run it in BE? :P
13:03 < luke-jr> rather than trying to sort out emulation  mess
13:03 < wumpus> which is why I doubt whether it's a good reflection of actual hardware a bit
13:03 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: They use google cloud and packet or amazon. Good luck buying them a POWER system
13:03 < luke-jr> (actually, POWER8/9 should be capable of running VMs in both endians..)
13:03 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: ugh
13:07 < jonatack> wumpus: arf i missed it too due to DST * makes note
13:08 < wumpus> jonatack: hah better next week
13:08 < jonatack> hehe
13:08 < emzy> wumpus online calendar worked perfectly for me. :)
13:09 < wumpus> emzy: glad to hear that :-)
13:10 < luke-jr> KOrganizer 4.4 here <.<
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13:14 < emzy> Apple Calendar here <.<
13:17 < wumpus> in any case I don't have anything against a qemu-user based solution for BE if it actually works now and doesn't require weird workarounds in the tests
13:18 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: I'll test :)
13:20 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: thanks!
13:23 < sipa> let's see how far i get with qemu-user s390x in a debian vm
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13:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mjdietzx opened pull request #20265: refactor: get wallet path relative to wallet_dir (master...refactor-get-relative-wallet-path) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20265
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13:49 < sipa> segfault when running a hello world :(
13:49 < sipa> it works with aarch64
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13:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mjdietzx closed pull request #20265: refactor: get wallet path relative to wallet_dir (master...refactor-get-relative-wallet-path) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20265
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14:06 < wumpus> good to know, yes i'd expect aarch64 on amd64 to be very well tested
14:11 < jonasschnelli> I'm even failing setting up debian stretch s390x with qemu-system-s390x...
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14:14 < sipa> going to try with testing
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14:50 < sipa> wumpus: hello world works in debian testing!
14:51 < sipa> $ s390x-linux-gnu-gcc test.c -o test
14:51 < sipa> # qemu-s390x-static test
14:51 < sipa> hello world
14:51 < real_or_random> I don't see the full log here for some reason but people saw https://github.com/bitcoin-core/secp256k1/pull/843 ?
14:51 < sipa> (the $/# is a typo, i don't have copy paste from my VM enabled)
14:52 < real_or_random> everyone seems to use docker images for qemu on travis... that's easy and seems to be good enough for travis
14:53 < sipa> real_or_random: oh interesting
14:53 < real_or_random> I got this running locally within a few minutes
14:53 < sipa> i assumed it was using system qemu
14:53 < real_or_random> ocker run --rm --privileged multiarch/qemu-user-static --reset -p yes
14:53 < real_or_random> docker run --rm -t -v '/your/local/secpdir:/mnt/secp256k1' -w /mnt/secp256k1 aarch64/busybox:glibc ./tests 
14:53 < real_or_random> these two commands do the job for me
14:54 < real_or_random> (after cross compiling) 
14:54 < real_or_random> which is just  ./configure --host=aarch64-ibm-linux-gnu 
14:54 < sipa> does that also work locally?
14:55 < real_or_random> this works locally yes, should also work on travis but it failed because it did a stupid mistake
14:55 < real_or_random> (sorry, I pasted the aarch64 example, which is LE)
14:56 < real_or_random> this should work with s390x too, host=s390x-unknown-linux-gnu
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14:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20266: Fix change detection of imported internal descriptors (master...fix-desc-change) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20266
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14:57 < real_or_random> I got a travis job on my own repo https://travis-ci.org/github/real-or-random/secp256k1/jobs/739959302#L620 ... it failed because I forgot to replace my local path in the command -.-
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15:08 < wumpus> sipa: awesome!
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15:09 < real_or_random> being able to run things on qemu is certainly useful but I think the bigger issue is the travis migration
15:09 < sipa> real_or_random: trying to get that to work locally
15:09 < sipa> running into weird zfs issues
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15:10 < real_or_random> what kind of issues?
15:10 < sipa> apparently the ubuntu docker install creates zfs filesystems for each docker image or something, unsure
15:10 < sipa> and now there is one in use which it can't destroy
15:10 < sipa> which i don't understand as it's not mounted
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15:11 < real_or_random> sipa: which command are you trying to run?
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15:18 < sipa> real_or_random: the first ons, run --rm -t -v ...
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15:20 < real_or_random> hm, yeah, no idea. that one run on  successfully also on travis.
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15:31 < sipa> real_or_random: ok, works
15:31 < sipa> i had to remove the "--rm"
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16:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20267: Disable and fix tests for when BDB is not compiled (master...tests-opt-sqlite-bdb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20267
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19:56 < aj> sipa: you mistyped "No, you're wrong, here's the full explanation dumbass: ___"
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19:56 < sipa> oh, silly me.
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 30 00:00:02 2020