--- Log opened Thu Jul 15 00:00:07 2021
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02:05 < jnewbery> laanwj MarcoFalke: looks like #22415 is RFM
02:05 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22415 | Make m_mempool optional in CChainState by jamesob · Pull Request #22415 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
02:49 < tutwidi[m]> Why satoshi 21.1 only one peers in real connected? Can you explain
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02:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22453: fuzz: Speed up rolling_bloom_filter fuzz test (master...2107-fuzzRoll) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22453
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03:11 < tutwidi[m]> there really shouldn't be any debate here.  this should be the place to focus on better development
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03:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22454: fuzz: Limit max ops in tx_pool fuzz targets (master...2107-fuzzPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22454
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04:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/97153a702600...c0224bc96287
04:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6176617 James O'Beirne: validation: make CChainState::m_mempool optional
04:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46e3efd James O'Beirne: refactor: move UpdateMempoolForReorg into CChainState
04:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4abf077 James O'Beirne: refactor: no mempool arg to GetCoinsCacheSizeState
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04:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22415: Make m_mempool optional in CChainState (master...2021-07-mempool-ptr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22415
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04:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #22455: addrman: detect on-disk corrupted nNew and nTried during unserialization (master...addrman_detect_negative) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22455
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05:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22456: [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one (master...210715-multilib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22456
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05:14 < vasild> jnewbery: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22455 -- the underlying issue is that nNew came as -1 from disk (fuzzer), from here one way or another we are f**d up
05:17 < vasild> one more clarification: if ResetI2PPorts() is removed from Unserialize() (== remove commit e0a2b39), then that fuzzer input does not produce a crash, which may create the impression that ResetI2PPorts()/e0a2b39 is the problem, but it is not. It does not crash because that fuzzer input contains nNew=-1 and only "tried" entries (no "new" ones) and in order to crash later in serialize it is 
05:17 < vasild> necessary to have at least one "new" and nNew=-1
05:18 < vasild> ResetI2PPorts() just adds one "new" entry
05:19 < vasild> It should be possible to produce an input which crashes even when ResetI2PPorts()/e0a2b39 is removed: nNew=1 and one new entry
05:19 < vasild> I mean nNew=-1 and one new entry
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05:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c0224bc96287...21998bc028d6
05:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 566357f Jon Atack: refactor: move GetRandomNodeEvictionCandidates() to test utilities
05:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5adb064 Jon Atack: bench: add peer eviction protection benchmarks
05:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 02e411e Jon Atack: p2p: iterate eviction protection only on networks having candidates
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05:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22284: p2p, refactor: performance improvements to ProtectEvictionCandidatesByRatio() (master...ProtectEvictionCandidatesByRatio-perf-enhancements) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22284
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05:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22457: refactor: Remove unused disconnectpool is nullptr feature (master...2107-refactorDisconnectPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22457
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05:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/21998bc028d6...d86e6625e857
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2584929 Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Add steps for transifex to release process
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a16378e Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Remove unnecessary steps from translations update process
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d86e662 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22369: doc: Add steps for Transifex to release proce...
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05:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22369: doc: Add steps for Transifex to release process (master...update-transifex-release-process) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22369
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07:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d86e6625e857...853ac47705c8
07:43 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa84cae Brian Liotti: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc
07:43 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 853ac47 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22393: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc
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07:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22393: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22393
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07:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/853ac47705c8...a88fa1a55519
07:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ba45f02 Vasil Dimov: net: relay I2P addresses even if not reachable (by us)
07:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8674281 Vasil Dimov: test: use NODE_* constants instead of magic numbers
07:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 33e211d Vasil Dimov: test: implement ser/unser of I2P addresses in functional tests
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07:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22211: net: relay I2P addresses even if not reachable (by us) (master...i2p_IsRelayable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22211
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08:01 < laanwj> rc1 looks pretty close? just #22387 (well-reviewed, alsmost ready to merge?) and #22421 (rfm, but a small refactor is requested, no need for it to be a blocker though), #21711 (documentation, ready to go, but could go in later)
08:01 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22387 | Rate limit the processing of rumoured addresses by sipa · Pull Request #22387 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
08:01 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
08:01 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21711 | guix: Add full installation and usage documentation by dongcarl · Pull Request #21711 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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08:04 < laanwj> depending on #22450 i guess
08:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
08:10 < laanwj> depending on how serious that problem is we might still do rc1 without it, just to get wider testing going, as there will likely be many other issues (due to changing the build system, for example), it'd be unlikely for rc1 to be final
08:11 < jonatack> yay!  (will propose an update for the hardcoded seeds and doc/i2p.md -- warn it can be slow for IBD and maybe some info about routers, that people continue to report / ask for -- those can go in later)
08:13 < laanwj> great! yes might be a good idea to make those wait for after rc1, a lot of people will likely be testing with I2p for the first time so i suppose there will be more changes there
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08:32 < robertspigler> Exciting times!
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09:10 < ariard> #proposemeetingtopic coredev quick updates
09:23 < ron-slc> any word on why bitcoin.org is down?
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09:24 < luke-jr> ron-slc: Cobra was ranting about it being DDoS'd on Twitter
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09:24 < luke-jr> off-topic here tho, further ?s to #bitcoin please
09:35 < jnewbery> laanwj: it looks to me like #22112 introduced a way for addrman's data to become inconsistent. I think we need a fix for that before we cut an rc1
09:35 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22112 | Force port 0 in I2P by vasild · Pull Request #22112 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:38 < sipa> that sounds scary
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09:47 < jnewbery> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450#issuecomment-880602891
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09:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #22461: wallet: Change ScriptPubKeyMan::Upgrade default to True (master...implement-desc-upgrade) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22461
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10:22 < laanwj> it wasn't clear to me how the bug can be triggered
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11:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #22457: refactor: Remove unused "disconnectpool is nullptr" feature (master...2107-refactorDisconnectPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22457
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11:32 < MarcoFalke> This should only affect I2P?
11:32 < MarcoFalke> which is experimental anyway
11:41 < laanwj> it affects nodes that have I2P addresses in their addrman, but i guess pre-0.22 won't store them
11:42 < laanwj> but it may cause problems later, as they accumulate; as long as we don't know the exact cause it's risky
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12:00 < laanwj> #startmeeting
12:00 < core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 15 19:00:17 2021 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
12:00 < core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:00 < hebasto> hi
12:00 < meshcollider> hi
12:00 < laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos
12:00 < laanwj> nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
12:00 < achow101> Hi
12:00 < kvaciral[m]> hi
12:00 < laanwj> one proposed meeting topic: coredev quick updates (ariard)
12:01 < laanwj> any last minute ones?
12:01 < ariard> hi
12:01 < laanwj> #topic 22.0
12:01 < core-meetingbot> topic: 22.0
12:02 < MarcoFalke> blocked by #22450, I guess (per previous discussion)
12:02 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:03 < laanwj> we're getting even closer, the last PRs are nearly ready for merge https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/47 , after which we should tag rc1 imo, but some last-minute issue came up while fuzzing addrman serialization (#22450)
12:03 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:03 < jonatack> hi
12:04 < MarcoFalke> sipa: What is the status of #22421 ?
12:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:04 < jamesob> hi
12:05 < laanwj> it seems to do what is said, so i'm fine with merging it as-is and doing the requested refactor later
12:05 < laanwj> but as rc1 is blocked on something else there is no need to rush
12:06 < MarcoFalke> Agree that there is no rush, but I have a slight preference to merge code that will be removed again right after
12:06 < MarcoFalke> *not
12:07 < gene> hi
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12:07 < sipa> hi
12:07 < laanwj> that's what i mean with there being no rush, we can wait a few days probably for sipa to change it or someone else to open a PR that takes it over if he isn't able to
12:07 < sipa> sorry, my computed died
12:08 < laanwj> if we wanted to cut rc1 tonight it'd be different and we could just merge it as-is
12:08 < laanwj> but that's not going to happen
12:08 < sipa> what do you need me to change?
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12:08 < luke-jr> [19:04:24] <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:09 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:09 < sipa> oh, the switch case? will do
12:09 < laanwj> MarcoFalke's suggestion about using a switch statement so future added TxoutTypes will turn up ac ompiler warning about a missing case
12:09 < laanwj> yes
12:11 < laanwj> #topic Coredev quick updates (ariard)
12:11 < core-meetingbot> topic: Coredev quick updates (ariard)
12:12 < ariard> hi
12:12 < ariard> so i sent the invits beginning of weeks, have already 19 yes
12:12 < ariard> half-americans/half-europeans
12:12 < laanwj> nice!
12:12 < ariard> bad news, the health policy of the location has changed drastically in the last 48 hours
12:13 < luke-jr> >_<
12:13 < ariard> 19, excluding orgas
12:13 < ariard> the nos so far are in majority are aussies friends :/
12:13 < ariard> hard to them to leave the country
12:13 < hebasto> ariard: is there a link to the updated list of vaccines that are approved by France?
12:14 < ariard> hebasto: i think that's an european thing, but will check and follow with you
12:14 < hebasto> thanks!
12:14 < MarcoFalke> The thing that changes was the "health passport"?
12:14 < MarcoFalke> *changed
12:14 < jonatack> i've been following things very closely.  the announcement is potentially pretty inconvenient for the non-treated. however, it remains to be seen what will be passed.
12:14 < ariard> we crunched a bit of news with orgas on the last days and it sounds this health pass will be really applied
12:14 < ariard> MarcoFalke: yep, and really enforcement of it and clear will of local authorities to harden it
12:15 < luke-jr> "non-treated"?
12:15 < jonatack> for now, it's only an announcement by macron and the "science council"
12:15 < jonatack> luke-jr: those who did not get the injection, as the french govt would say 
12:15 < ariard> luke-jr: either recovery/vaccinate or PCR every 48h to do any kind of public activities
12:16 < jonatack> PCR or antigen or a test result in the last 6 months that one was positive 
12:16 < ariard> it's still super early and we have the option to change the location in another country, more peaceful
12:16 < ariard> still with the same date as a fixed point
12:16 < luke-jr> tbh that sounds reasonable tho
12:16 < sipa> will they recognize vaccinations given in other countries? the US doesn't really give you any kind of recognizable certificate
12:16 < sipa> just a piece of paper that the pharmacist fills in
12:16 < ariard> sipa: i think so, at least it's expected to make thing bearable for us tourists
12:17 < jonatack> for entry, as before, and what macron is asking is for all of the shopping centers, bars, and restaurants to check identity and health status for each customer....i'm not sure how realistic it is
12:17 < ariard> though things can change from a week to another, and the eu wake up a morning and withdraw a vaccin from the authorized list
12:17 < jonatack> again, law not passed, only proposed by the executive
12:18 < sipa> the location does seem a bit annoying to reach, though
12:18 < sipa> needs 1+ extra flight compared to most major european cities
12:18 < ariard> yeah french curfew wasn't effectively applied in the last week of its validity in may/june
12:18 < ariard> sipa: i know though restrictions if existent will be far more cool, which was the rational
12:19 < ariard> given it's not major hub
12:19 < sipa> hmm, i don't follow
12:19 < sipa> but ok, doesn't really matter for me
12:19 < ariard> countryside might not enforce covid restrictions
12:19 < jonatack> there can be pretty wide gulf between what is said and what is done
12:19 < sipa> ah, i'd expect it to be country-wide, but perhaps that makes sense
12:19 < jonatack> this is a latin country ;)
12:20 < ariard> sipa: yeah it's france there is was decreted in paris and the rest of the country
12:20 < jonatack> the police don't want to enforce it.  will likely be enforced via exceptions, not the rule.
12:20 < ariard> s/was/what/g
12:21 < sipa> well, people still need to be able to enter the county
12:21 < sipa> +r
12:21 < jonatack> we were talking about destinations that have no restrictions.  atm seems like mexico and costa rica.
12:21 < ariard> that said, we reviewed quickly alternative europeans/middle america locations with loosened covid restrictions
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12:22 < ariard> sipa: us can enter eu since beginning of june for tourisms travels purpose
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12:23 < sipa> well, keep us posted
12:23 < ariard> the question: is it worhty to play a safer fallback plan now, with lesser covid restrictions to replace france ?
12:23 < ariard> like portugal or switzerland
12:23 < laanwj> right, let's see how this develops for a bit, better to not book travel yet
12:24 < ariard> agree, or if you do so tick the repleacable box for once
12:24 < jonatack> portugal just became a hot zone that is hard to return from
12:24 < BlueMatt> ariard: I mean the restrictions as-proposed don't seem insane or even that annoying, its moreso if those restrictions change.
12:24 < ariard> okay let's how things evolve, we keep in mind a sound fallback plan if we have to do so
12:25 < ariard> BlueMatt: yeaaah it should be okay for now if it stays as so...
12:25 < luke-jr> less restrictions now could mean more later due to COVID spread?
12:25 < BlueMatt> right, also that
12:25 < BlueMatt> not to mention less restrictions now could mean people dont want to go if there's covid spread there come end-of-year lol
12:25 < jonatack> BlueMatt: TBH what they want is vaccinations, if you are then you're good. for those who aren't, it could be more inconvenient. that is their goal.
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12:26 < ariard> luke-jr: we're considering really geographically isolated places with stable covid restrictions on the last 9 months
12:26 < jonatack> unless they close the borders again but last year that didn't happen until december IIRC
12:26 < BlueMatt> jonatack: I mean have y'all bothered to ask if people *are* vaccinated? In my experience among bitcoin *developers* its like 100%. among bitcoin twitter users its much different.
12:26 < jamesob> not vax'd
12:26 < luke-jr> definitely not 100%
12:26 < ariard> BlueMatt: lol i'm not and don't plan to do so :p
12:27 < sipa> wut
12:27 < luke-jr> I know at least 3 who aren't
12:27 < jonatack> BlueMatt: nope, many aren't and a number indicated to me that they won't come if it's a requirement
12:27 < BlueMatt> ariard: sure, some qualify under "had postitive test and thus dont care" :)
12:27 < ariard> BlueMatt: mainly that if you've aready bee positive in the last months
12:27 < sipa> oh, sure
12:28 < ariard> we have also few folks in countries when its *hard* to get a vaccin :/
12:28 < sipa> that may change in the coming months though
12:28 < ariard> hopefully, yes
12:28 < BlueMatt> let me rephrase, is there anyone who (a) hasn't *had* covid such that they otherwise qualify, (b) haven't been vax'd, and (c) want to come in spite of the fact that they have no antibodies to covid?
12:29 < jonatack> BlueMatt: yes
12:29 < ariard> BlueMatt: yes
12:29 < sipa> that seems to be the key word around this event, "hopefully"
12:29 < ariard> sipa: hopefully we won't have covid restrictions 2 years from now but who knows?
12:29 < sipa> of course
12:29 < ariard> we might yet-another year running on this pace
12:30 < BlueMatt> well another option then is the us pending watching restrictions over the coming month or so. it seems likely the us will relax the inbound-tourist restirctions given eu pressure on the us to be symmetric.
12:30 < BlueMatt> and once here there's much less likely to be any new restrictions on movement/gathering than other places.
12:30 < luke-jr> FL hasn't really ever had any restrictions if you can get into the country :p
12:30 < ariard> okay let's play hope for now, keep a consistant fallback plan if france get in some administrative folly, and don't take travel plans without cancelling options
12:31 < ariard> luke-jr: was there a month ago, nice state :)
12:31 < sipa> so the plan is still same date, same place?
12:31 < sipa> barring other news?
12:31 < ariard> BlueMatt: yeah if the us really relax fallbacking on NYC/boston could be easy
12:31 < ariard> sipa: for now, yes and we're keeping a strong eye on evolution
12:31 < BlueMatt> right, nyc is probably easy.
12:32 < jonatack> the US is difficult for many people.  would suggest a destination people can enter
12:32 < sipa> US is not easy to enter i assume, right now
12:32 < BlueMatt> right, that's assuming the entering restriction is relaxed, but there's lots of eu pressure on dc to do that sooner rather than later.
12:32 < luke-jr> maybe El Salvador would make exceptions as needed XD
12:32 < ariard> yes have this issue with UK, not legally friendly hmmmm
12:32 < BlueMatt> I dont think the UK is an option right now.
12:33 < jonatack> nope (csw etc) 
12:33 < ariard> i know some contributors who had issues getting in the us in the past
12:33 < ariard> well, not other news :)
12:34 < laanwj> any other topics?
12:34 < laanwj> #endmeeting
12:34 < core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
12:34 < core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 15 19:34:39 2021 UTC.  
12:34 < core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-07-15-19.00.moin.txt
12:34 < luke-jr> fwiw achow101 made gitian descriptors that do the guix build for you
12:35 < luke-jr> #22439
12:35 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22439 | build: Use guix within gitian by achow101 · Pull Request #22439 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:54 < gene> thanks for the meeting everybody
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13:00 < robertspigler> What's the purpose of using guix within gitian? Doesn't that reintroduce dependencies/security concerns that were the purpose of transitioning from gitian->guix? 
13:04 < luke-jr> robertspigler: it's familiar, and more secure. Guix doesn't actually provide most of the benefits claimed.
13:04 < laanwj> only for the people that use it that way, assuming they'll compare their output to builders that use guix differently, they'll notice
13:06 < luke-jr> unfortunately, even within gitian there is still a huge increase in resource cost and debatable reduction in security, but it's better than nothing
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13:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kiminuo opened pull request #22463: [TESTBED][NO-MERGE] Verbosity level 3 getblock rebase (master...verbosity-level-3-getblock-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22463
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13:06 < kanzure> catching up on the backlog- so france is still the pick?
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13:08 < luke-jr> kanzure: yes, but "wait and see"
13:10 < robertspigler> Does it not make the build bootstrappable? And solve the issue of a malicious compiler?
13:11 < luke-jr> robertspigler: no, it makes it even less bootstrappable than it was under Ubuntu
13:12 < luke-jr> robertspigler: you *have* to use Guix's third party binaries
13:12 < robertspigler> My understanding was that gitian was reproducible, but not bootstrappable, and that guix is an improvement to bootstrappable and reproducible
13:12 < luke-jr> (Ubuntu was more 3p bins, but at least you could build them yourself if you wanted to)
13:14 < luke-jr> robertspigler: maybe someday
13:15 < dongcarl> robertspigler: Hi, the 3p binaries in Guix are significantly smaller, and can be reproduced with `guix build bootstrap-tarballs`
13:15 < luke-jr> dongcarl: not really
13:15 < luke-jr> using them to reproduce themselves doesn't count
13:16 < dongcarl> Ubuntu's the same situation then.
13:16 < luke-jr> no, you can build all of Ubuntu with non-Ubuntu compilers
13:17 < luke-jr> and Ubuntu was run in a VM for gitian
13:17 < luke-jr> which gets back to the original question:
13:18 < luke-jr> this is why one would run Guix inside gitian ;)
13:18 < robertspigler> dongcarl: that makes sense
13:18 < robertspigler> Which brings me back to my original question - why run guix in gitian
13:18 < dongcarl> Sure, I'm not going to stop anyone from choosing their own security model, that's their own choice! :-)
13:19 < robertspigler> luke-jr: but those compilers aren't bootsrappable
13:19 < luke-jr> robertspigler: ?
13:19 < luke-jr> Guix's compiler is the only one that isn't bootstrappable
13:20 < luke-jr> going from A to A proves nothing
13:20 < robertspigler> It has the smallest binary seed bootstrap
13:20 < luke-jr> irrelevant, it's still a binary seed
13:21  * dongcarl goes back to work
13:22 < robertspigler> :)
13:24 < luke-jr> pretty sure the binary seed won't boot or inspect itself either, so it's snake oil really ;)
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14:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #22464: bench: fix 32-bit narrowing warning in bench/peer_eviction.cpp (master...fix-32bit-narrowing-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22464
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14:13 < jonatack>   /query hebasto
14:13 < hebasto> jonatack: testing...
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14:14 < jonatack> hebasto: thanks (wanted to ask you how to do a 32-bit depends build)
14:14 < hebasto> what system on?
14:15 < jonatack> debian (Debian 5.10.40-1 (2021-05-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux)
14:16 < hebasto> `apt install g++-multilib`
14:16 < hebasto> it could conflict with other packages (
14:17 < hebasto> ^ related to #22456 (draft)
14:17 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22456 | [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one by hebasto · Pull Request #22456 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
14:17 < jonatack> thanks -- installed it and seems to be ok
14:18 < hebasto> conflicts are if you made cross builds for other archs
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14:54 < bombingmiami> belcher is a liar piece of shit is that right belcher? He got 50.000 dollars from hrf.org to attack me and my organization. I had edit privileges on Bitcoin Wiki since 2015 with the username "humanrightsfoundation" https://web.archive.org/web/20151031001911/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1025908.40. On 2020 Jun belcher was attacked me and
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16:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #22456: [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one (master...210715-multilib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22456
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17:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #22463: [TESTBED][NO-MERGE] Verbosity level 3 getblock rebase (master...verbosity-level-3-getblock-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22463
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17:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #22336: [TESTBED][NO-MERGE][POC] Use std::filesystem. Remove Boost Filesystem & System (master...feature/use_std_filesystem_testbed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22336
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18:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl opened pull request #22465: guix: Pin kernel-header version, time-machine to upstream 1.3.0 commit (master...2021-07-guix-kernel-old) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22465
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20:02 < fanquake> robertspigler: there are a number of benefits that come with using Guix as a release build environment (or just as a build system in general).
20:02 < fanquake> Using gitian, you have to pick a Linux distro to build on. This defines your toolchains, available packages, the glibc your building against etc.
20:02 < fanquake> This also means you're subject to choices of the upstream package maintainers. They control how/when package versions are updated, what patches are applied to them, how they are compiled etc. This has downsides.
20:03 < fanquake> As an example, our security-check tests rely on a number of -no-* options being present in mingw-w64 ld. These options were patched into the ld in the Ubuntu Bionic binutils-mingw-w64 package, however, the binutils maintainer chose to stop doing that in Ubuntu Focal, which meant our security-check tests would not have been able to run (they have since decided to re-patch them in Hirsute). See #18629 for more details.
20:03 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18629 | scripts: add PE .reloc section check to security-check.py by fanquake · Pull Request #18629 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
20:03 < fanquake> In Guix, because we're in full control of our toolchains, we don't have to worry about issues like this, and can just directly apply the patches we want to use, and this is exactly what we've done in #22381, where we started patching the -no-* linker options into our mingw-w64 toolchain. Compiler / linker options or defaults that we may rely on, can no-longer be randomly changing out from underneath us.
20:03 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22381 | guix: Test security-check sanity before performing them (with macOS) by fanquake · Pull Request #22381 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
20:03 < fanquake> To that, some might say "well just don't change the Ubuntu base image, and things won't change". To that, I'd say, I don't want the project to be in a position where we are "stuck", and can't update our base image to use new tools (i.e compilers), because by doing so we'll just break something else, like our security tests. 
20:03 < fanquake> It would seem smarter to just remove the potential for those kinds of problem entirely, by constructing and using exactly the release build environment we want.
20:03 < fanquake> "Well why not just patch / change things in gitian" - I wont say much on this, except for, the gitian environment is not at all setup to do the same kind of patching that we can fairly trivially achieve in Guix. Trying to patch and compile, for example, the mingw-w64 toolchain in a gitian descriptor, would also just turn into a terrible mess.
20:03 < fanquake> The same can be said about trying to gitian build anything using a glibc different than what is already available on that version of Ubuntu.
20:03 < fanquake> This has backward-compatibility implications, as the version of glibc you're building against, essentially determines your runtime glibc compatiblity. However this can be extended by using the sorts of "workarounds" that we currently have in our glibc-back-compat code.
20:03 < fanquake> Now, similar to the situation where you might want to use a newer Ubuntu release (for any number of reasons), doing so will mean that you have to build against a newer glibc (you just get whatever version comes with that release of Ubuntu).
20:03 < fanquake> This means that as you use newer versions of glibc, the number of "workarounds" you need to maintain backwards compatibility pile up, get continually more complicated, and even start to leak out of Bitcoin Core code, and into our dependency system. See all the PRs linked in this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22418#issuecomment-876379846.
20:04 < fanquake> Changes like that leaking into depends are bad, because now normals builders, using depends, are now being subject to the side-effects of patches that are only really necessary in our release build environment. Maybe you'd argue that in that case we should only apply the depends patches when building releases, however then you've got a situation where release builds are even more divergent from "normal"/developer builds, and this means 
20:04 < fanquake> either maintaining an even more complex CI / testing routines, or they just end up less tested (guess which one is more likely to happen).
20:04 < fanquake> If that all just sounds like a complicated mess, it's basically because it is. However the solution, using Guix, is actually pretty straight forward. 
20:04 < fanquake> When we are in complete control of our release environment, we can pick exactly the version of glibc we want to use (even at a per-HOST level), something that we definitely couldn't achieve, in any sort of straight forward fashion, if at all, using gitian.
20:04 < fanquake> This is something we've done recently, in #22365. We are now building using glibc 2.27 for the RISC-V HOST, and using glibc 2.24 for all others, while maintaining runtime compatibility with glibc 2.17. You'll note this this is achieved without needing to use any of the work arounds from our glibc-back-compat code (#22405), or any of the other PRs / changes mentioned in the comment above.
20:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22365 | guix: Avoid relying on newer symbols by rebasing our cross toolchains on older glibcs by dongcarl · Pull Request #22365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
20:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22405 | build: remove --enable-glibc-back-compat from Guix build by fanquake · Pull Request #22405 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
20:04 < fanquake> These are just two very practical benefits that using Guix provides (there are more), which ultimately all boil down to us being in much greater control of our release build environment. Something I am very happy about, and I think makes a lot of sense for a project like Bitcoin Core.
20:04 < fanquake> The fact that there are also many people in the Guix space actively working on bootstrapability is just another big bonus, and even if that doesn't work exactly like some may want it too right now, it is rapidly being improved, month on month.
20:04 < fanquake> Guix is also a much more likely pathway to fully bootstrapable Bitcoin Core builds that what gitian could ever provide.
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20:29 < dongcarl> 👏
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21:22 < robertspigler> fanquake: That's great, thanks for the detailed explanation! I didn't know there were benefits beyond bootstrappability. So that makes me even more confused re: why run guix in gitian?
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22:08 < dongcarl> robertspigler: I don't think we're going to run Guix inside Gitian for the releases, but personally I think people are free to do whatever they think make sense if they're committed to maintaining it
22:09 < robertspigler> Sure, I agree with that
22:09 < robertspigler> I was wondering if I was missing something, but it doesn't seem that I am
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23:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a88fa1a55519...f8b20fd35b0e
23:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e49d50c Jon Atack: bench: fix 32-bit narrowing warning in bench/peer_eviction.cpp
23:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8b20fd MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22464: bench: fix 32-bit narrowing warning in bench/...
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23:07 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22464: bench: fix 32-bit narrowing warning in bench/peer_eviction.cpp (master...fix-32bit-narrowing-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22464
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 16 00:00:07 2021