--- Log opened Thu Aug 26 00:00:47 2021
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01:03 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/84be9a89c1a4...cea38b491f6a
01:03 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master aa5e7c9 Kiminuo: Fix typo in bitcoin-cli.cpp
01:03 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 25de4e7 Kiminuo: Use `context.args` in `CWallet::Create` instead of `gArgs`.
01:03 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c3c2132 Kiminuo: Use `context.args` in `src/wallet/load.cpp`.
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01:03 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22183: Remove `gArgs` from `wallet.h` and `wallet.cpp` (master...feature/2021-06-07-wallet-n-gArgs-min) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22183
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01:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cea38b491f6a...718d9f2f7727
01:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0eca5eb Sebastian Falbesoner: contrib: refactor: introduce bitcoin-cli RPC call helper in getcoins.py
01:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8c203cf Sebastian Falbesoner: contrib: catch bitcoin-cli RPC call errors in getcoins.py
01:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 42dbd90 Sebastian Falbesoner: contrib: return non-zero status if getcoins.py errors
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01:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22660: contrib: catch bitcoin-cli RPC call errors in getcoins.py (master...202107-script-signet_getcoins_catch_rpc_errors) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22660
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01:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/718d9f2f7727...3a62b8b77e7b
01:21 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master acb7aad Rafael Sadowski: Fix build with Boost 1.77.0
01:21 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3a62b8b fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22713: Fix build with Boost 1.77.0
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01:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22713: Fix build with Boost 1.77.0 (master...boost-1770) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22713
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02:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3a62b8b77e7b...0492b56e38c2
02:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 646b388 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: refactor: use named args for block_submit in feature_nulldummy.py
02:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7720d4f Sebastian Falbesoner: test: fix failure in feature_nulldummy.py on single-core machines
02:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0492b56 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22738: test: fix failure in feature_nulldummy.py on ...
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02:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22738: test: fix failure in feature_nulldummy.py on single-core machines (master...202108-test-fix_nulldummy_test_on_singlecore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22738
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03:40 < laanwj> is it time to do 22.0rc3 soon maybe
03:43 < fanquake> laanwj: yea. Need the Boost fix added to #22629,  then I think we should just about cut an rc3
03:43 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22629 | [22.x] rc3 backports by hebasto · Pull Request #22629 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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03:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0492b56e38c2...7740ebcb0230
03:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bebcf78 Jon Atack: Update i2p.md and tor.md regarding -onlynet config option
03:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b87a9c4 Jon Atack: Improve doc/i2p.md regarding I2P router options/versions
03:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0175977 Jon Atack: Add I2P network SetReachable/IsReachable unit test assertions
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03:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22648: doc, test: improve i2p/tor docs and i2p reachable unit tests (master...i2p-doc-updates-august-2021) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22648
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03:45 < laanwj> that's one of the PRs jonatack still wants to add to #22629 ^^
03:45 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22629 | [22.x] rc3 backports by hebasto · Pull Request #22629 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:46 < laanwj> i'm still too confused about onlynet logic to review #22651
03:46 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22651 | tor: respect non-onion -onlynet= for outgoing Tor connections by vasild · Pull Request #22651 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:47 < fanquake> my understanding was that 22648 was only mergable if the other PR was also merged
03:47 < laanwj> oh no
03:47 < fanquake> confusing I know, as it should have just been based on top of it if that was the case
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03:48 < fanquake> Also why I wasn't overly concerned if either didn't make it into rc3, either as part of the current backport PR (which is getting large), or at all.
03:48 < laanwj> don't know if it was a good idea to couple it to that, the rest of the documentation changes looked sane
03:48 < wired> t is safe to say that the "Block Chain" is the "longest Proof-of-Work chain"?
03:49 < laanwj> i won't say anything about onlynet, i really don't know about onlynet
03:49 < wired> or my article just call it "TimeChain"? 
03:50 < laanwj> wired: #bitcoin please
03:50 < wired> banned from there for asking this
03:50 < wired> so I asking here
03:50 < wired> you develop the software don't you?
03:50 < laanwj> then definitely don't repeat it here
03:50 < fanquake> wired: well the same will happen here. Your questions are off topic
03:50 < wired> can you talk to me about the "block chain" or "TimeChain"
03:50 < wired> ?
03:50 < laanwj> this is the development channel not bitcoin 101 channels
03:50 < laanwj> no
03:51 < wired> ohh yo you developing for who really? for the community or for Blockstream? no offense 
03:52 < wired> I asking about "block chain" "timechain" and the "longest Proof-of-Work chain" and this is how you react, interesting
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03:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] klementtan opened pull request #22804: validation: GuessVerificationProgress returns 0 when no blocks downloaded (master...verification_progress_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22804
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03:52 < wired> so you're a Bitcoin developer? 
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03:56 < laanwj> I think I'm starting to get #22647 and #22651, so it ends up with an onion proxy (despite not being specifiec explicitly) because of -listenonion, then because of that connecting to onions despite -onlynet, which should rule out connecting to networks not specified?
03:56 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22647 | If both options "onion" and "proxy" are unset, no outbound Onion connections should be made · Issue #22647 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:56 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22651 | tor: respect non-onion -onlynet= for outgoing Tor connections by vasild · Pull Request #22651 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:58 < laanwj> after all, onlynet specifies where outgoing connections should be made
03:59 < laanwj> but yes, the current backport PR is getting really large
04:01 < laanwj> though every individual backported PR in the set is fairly small 
04:01 < laanwj> but it would be good to do a release some time
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04:05 < fanquake> Yes, I think rc3 cut this week
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04:23 < laanwj> I don't know if I'm making sense https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22648/files#r696535966
04:24 < laanwj> in any case, yes, no need to make any rushed change here for rc3
04:27 < fanquake> laanwj: I'll take a look tomorrow for you
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04:30 < laanwj> fanquake: thank you!
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04:31 < laanwj> I think we should properly think through what we want onlynet to do and implement (and test) that
04:32 < fanquake> I think there is a lot of scope to reduce the options there, and potentially the features we support. It seems to be very getting very convoluted / non-intuitive.
04:32 < laanwj> and what makes sense to users-not do for sake of expediency what is easiest to implement
04:32 < laanwj> right, deprecating some things completely might be an option too
04:34 < laanwj> there's user privacy at stake here it shouldn't be some dangerous maze of options
04:34 < fanquake> I'd be interested to know if / why some users might be using such networking setups. This also seems like something better solved (or at least moving that way) outside bitcoind, vs additional feature creep  and back-compat / option complexity.
04:35 < fanquake> Having support for all of this built is ok, as long as we're not just giving foot-guns, or some sort of false sense of security to users who badly configure things.
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04:53 < hebasto> all of prs labeled "Needs backport (22.x)" have been processed
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05:00 < laanwj> hebasto: great1
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05:18 < jonatack> was afk. it would be nice for https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22648/commits/b87a9c4d to be backported into 22.0.
05:18 < jonatack> doc regarding  I2P router options/versions 
05:18 < jonatack> so as to not need to spend another half year pointing people to it
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05:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 16 commits to 22.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d3bd5410f64e...4a25e39624e2
05:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x e9d30fb Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Run fuzzer task for the master branch only
05:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x 57fce06 Anthony Towns: consensus/params: simplify ValidDeployment check to avoid gcc warning
05:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x e9b4487 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Fix regression in "Encrypt Wallet" menu item
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05:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22629: [22.x] rc3 backports (22.x...210805-22.0-backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22629
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05:28 < hebasto> laanwj: just checked #22667, and it does not require update, and it is actually rtm
05:28 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22667 | [22.x] qt: Pre-rc3 translations update by hebasto · Pull Request #22667 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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05:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 22.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/4a25e39624e2...99cd080db1ad
05:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x aa254a0 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Pre-rc3 translations update
05:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x 99cd080 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22667: [22.x] qt: Pre-rc3 translations update
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05:33 < jonatack> fanquake: i hear from many users, can direct them to you if you're interested, let me know how best you'd like them to reach you
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05:35 < laanwj> hebasto: thanks for confirming
05:36 < fanquake> jonatack: why would they need to reach out to me directly? If there are problems, users should either be opening an issue on GH, and commenting on an existing one. Keeping discussing in DMs, or one-on-one interactions is not useful for ascertaining the scope of an issue, or creating any sort of public documentation.
05:37 < fanquake> My understand is that there are only a handful of i2p users in any case. There can’t be too many, as it’s still an experimental, unreleased feature
05:37 < laanwj> jonatack: it would have been nice to have that PR in rc3, but it's too bad it's coupled to the onlynet change, I'm not sure about backporting it partially
05:38 < jonatack> fanquake: i'm doing what i can to help them. that's the only reason for the docs. there are maybe ~30 users who have set up I2P with bitcoin, but i've heard from many of them.
05:38 < laanwj> for now, it makes most sense to check the documentation on master with regard to i2p i guess
05:39 < jonatack> yes, my suggestion at this point was the commit about i2p routers. that's the most frequent question. along with onlynet.
05:39 < laanwj> but there's no harm in cherry-picking that PR either
05:39 < jonatack> (they are separate commits)
05:39 < laanwj> s/PR/commit
05:39 < jonatack> oh ok
05:39 < laanwj> I don't think I agree with the onlynet fix
05:41 < fanquake> jonatack: I still don’t understand how having them reach out to me directly would be any use
05:43 < sipa> fanquake: i suspect jonatack means this as a means to show you people care aboit this
05:44 < laanwj> let's see if manual page generation behaves any more sane now
05:44 < jonatack> fanquake: that was in reply to "I'd be interested to know if / why some users might be using such networking setups" so you can discuss with them, if you like
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05:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 22.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/99cd080db1ad...f95b655ba9ab
05:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x 59d4afc W. J. van der Laan: build: Bump version to 22.0rc3
05:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x f95b655 Jon Atack: Improve doc/i2p.md regarding I2P router options/versions
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05:46 < fanquake> jonatack: sure. If users want to discuss that, I’m happy for them to get in touch with me.
05:46 < jonatack> basically, people are looking for privacy and there's some confusion out there around the benefits and drawbacks of onlynet=onion. i'm seeing people starting with i2p with onlynet=i2p by default too.
05:48 < laanwj> ok in manual pages it now shows v22.0.0rc3 instead of v22.0rc2, hyphens still get nixed
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05:50 < prayank> If we had wiki enabled in this repository, it could be used for privacy related docs. There is scope for lot of improvement but you need lot of patience to get any privacy related PR get merged (sometimes years).
05:52 < laanwj> the main problem (as I see it) is that how these options interact is incredibly complex, as well as under-tested in the functional tests, which makes reviewing changes to them scary
05:53 < laanwj> someone may be relying on some specific edge-case which then changes
05:53 < jonatack> (onlynet=onion seems overused from what i can tell. maybe in a few months onlynet=onion + onlynet=i2p could become interesting)
05:53 < jonatack> laanwj: agree
05:54 < laanwj> onlynet=onion is nice if you want to avoid using exit relays on tor
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05:56 < bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #403: refactor: Make paths to update Encryption and HD wallet statuses simpler (master...210811-hd) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/403
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05:56 < laanwj> i2p somewhat luckily doesn't have those
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05:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 22.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f95b655ba9ab...86de56776aae
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x c1c79f4 W. J. van der Laan: doc: Stop nixing `-` in manual pages
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x 86de567 W. J. van der Laan: doc: Manual pages update for rc3
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05:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7740ebcb0230...774a4f517cf6
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7d0d4c0 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Add WalletFrame::currentWalletSet signal
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 37dcf16 Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Emit WalletView::encryptionStatusChanged signal directly
05:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fcdc8b0 Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Drop redundant signalling in WalletView::setWalletModel
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05:59 < laanwj> i think we're ready for tagging rc3
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06:03 < hebasto> ^ agree
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06:05 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed tag v22.0rc3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v22.0rc3
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06:05 < laanwj> ^^
06:07 < hebasto> \o/
06:10 < jonatack> prayank: not sure if you meant something else, but there is a wiki at https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki 
06:11 < laanwj> that said, it's probably not the best place for privacy advice for end users
06:12 < laanwj> although it can be convenient to edit documents (like release notes) there temporarily
06:16 < prayank> jonatack: Thanks for the link. I was about to ask if we could add docs section here for tor and i2p. Will also need write access for people who want to contribute. But laanwj doesn't think it's the best place to do it. Problem is right now people get privacy advice on Twitter, Reddit, Telegram, Stackexchange etc. Users with different levels of technical expertise.
06:19 < michaelfolkson> I think StackExchange is a good place for general privacy guidance. The Core docs document the Core software and how to use it, anything where there are differing perspectives and trade-offs to be discussed should probably be elsewhere
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06:21 < jonatack> that's true, the wiki is being used for repo project management.  an article on your personal blog or website or (good point) on BitcoinStackExchange seems good, or https://en.bitcoin.it (still maintained?)
06:22 < laanwj> general privacy advice about using bitcoin spans much further than just using an overlay network, the most privacy-relevant in that regard is what you use to broadcast transactions
06:23 < michaelfolkson> jonatack: Oh yeah :facepalm: I completely forgot about belcher's awesome privacy wiki. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Privacy
06:23 < laanwj> I think if you never broadcast your own transactions from your own node, how you connect is hardly privacy-sensitive at all, and overlay networks become more of a way of ensuring different connectivity to mitigate eclipse attacks
06:25 < michaelfolkson> jonatack: It might need updating for a few things since 2019 but this is most exhaustive resource on privacy I think
06:25 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: right! and last edited on 21 July 2021
06:25 < laanwj> (of course there are different perspectives, some people mean 'privacy' as in 'hiding that you're running a bitcoin node in the first place' which is... very difficult if impossible with overlay networks)
06:26 < laanwj> sure, your IP won't trivially show up in node lists, the sheer amount of data as well as timing patterns can give enough suspicion
06:29 < laanwj> but it might be *enough* privacy for some cases, always hard to judge
06:32 < prayank> Problem with Stackexchange and other places is you can write with more freedom and sometimes wrong things may not get noticed which in few years become a practice. Example: second paragraph in this comment by Greg Maxwell https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17491#issuecomment-705485718
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06:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #22805: refactor: use CWallet const shared pointers in dump{privkey,wallet} (master...202108-refactor-const_correctness_for_further_dump_methods) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22805
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06:36 < michaelfolkson> prayank: No panacea (every source has upsides and downsides) but maintaining a version of that very long (but good) privacy wiki in the Core docs is not a road we want to go down.
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06:37 < muhblockchain> git (not github) sounds for me like the perfect place to organize any documents (for devs as well as users)
06:37 < michaelfolkson> prayank: Also I think belcher takes ownership of this privacy wiki as he wrote most of it in a way that he doesn't on some other non-privacy topics. Not many people know more about privacy than Chris
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07:04 < prayank> michaelfolkson: Agree that privacy wiki has lot of interesting things. I respect Chris Belcher for his contributions in improving Bitcoin Privacy. The docs I was talky about were only for Bitcoin Core. Mainly Tor, i2p, wallet etc. This privacy wiki also needs some updates: Dandelion should be removed, i2p needs to be added, lot of things related to Tor (you can write few pages on just `onlynet`). Anyways it's just a suggestion.
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07:20 < laanwj> from a more holistic point of view about "bitcoin privacy" i don't think something like onlynet contributes much
07:21 < laanwj> my initial point was to make the option behave sensibly, instead of writing diatribes about all its exceptions and strange cases
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07:35 < prayank> There are lot of users who care about privacy and interested to know about trade-offs involved in using Tor with i2p and other combinations which needs `onlynet`
07:38 < laanwj> the way to make sure all outgoing connections go through a proxy has always been -proxy, this intentionally covers all networks
07:38 < prayank> Will they read right now? Maybe this https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/107060/tor-and-i2p-tradeoffs-in-bitcoin-core/ which I wrote based on some comments in different pull requests, asking some people on reddit, my own research etc.
07:38 < prayank> And I can't assure if everything mentioned is correct
07:39 < laanwj> the other thing to worry about is incoming connections, you either want to stop listening or P2P make sure you only listen on localhost (for a Tor hidden service)
07:39 < laanwj> that's it-
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07:42 < jonatack> good points
07:42 < laanwj> that alone should be enough to run networking entirely through the proxy, if not, it's a serious bug
07:44 < laanwj> prayank: thanks for writing something up
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07:48 < prayank> TBH I am not using i2p right now for mainnet. But experimenting a lot on testnet. There was a vulnerability in Tails long back and using two different complex things can always result in weird things which remain unnoticed for a long time. But it's good users have two options now:  Tor and i2p
07:49 < prayank> Tails context: https://tor.stackexchange.com/a/6931/
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08:38 < michaelfolkson> prayank: Yeah comparing Tor and I2P is a good question. I don't know anything about I2P https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/107060/tor-and-i2p-tradeoffs-in-bitcoin-core/
08:39 < michaelfolkson> (as a protocol)
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08:41 < michaelfolkson> I2P is more robust and reliable (apparently) than Tor
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09:26 < michaelfolkson> MarcoFalke: Re "I think long term there is no prospect that BIP 125 will be adhered to exactly" on #22665 why do you say that? Because you think BIP 125 is inferior to current Core code, because it would be too difficult to change in Core, because other implementations haven't implemented it etc?
09:26 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22665 | policy/rbf: dont return "incorrect" replaceability status by darosior · Pull Request #22665 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:27 < sipa> michaelfolkson: i assume that MarcoFalke means that at some point just everything will be replaceable
09:28 < sipa> as BIP125/opt-in RBF in general are just gentlemen's agreements that are probably untenable in a rational market long-term
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09:31 < michaelfolkson> sipa: ariard isn't sure that will land https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22698#issuecomment-899886907 but MarcoFalke thinks it definitely will eventually?
09:38 < sipa> michaelfolkson: yes, sometimes people have different opinions about what will happen in the future
09:38 < michaelfolkson> sipa: Sure :) Just checking I understood the perspectives
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09:56 < achow101> what about 0.21.2 final? Seems like there hasn't been any issues (although that may be due to no one testing?)
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10:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kristapsk opened pull request #22807: RPC: Add universal options argument to listtransactions (master...listtransactions-options) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22807
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10:13 < laanwj> achow101: sgtm
10:22 < hebasto> achow101: laanwj: it seems https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22713 is required to be backported in 0.21
10:24 < achow101> I guess there's also #22784
10:24 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22784 | combinerawtransaction fails to properly combine transactions containing taproot inputs · Issue #22784 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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10:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22808: [0.21] 0.21.2rc2 backports (0.21...210826-0.21-backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22808
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10:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22809: test: Check that non-signaling BIP125 tx can be replaced via parent (master...2108-testTxReplace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22809
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11:12 < prayank> Wrote a post about ONLYNET: https://prayank23.github.io/camouflage//blog/onlynet/
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12:00 < laanwj> #startmeeting
12:00 < core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 26 19:00:08 2021 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
12:00 < core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:00 < kvaciral[m]> hi
12:00 < larryruane> hi
12:00 < gene> hi
12:00 < hebasto> hi
12:00 < ariard__> hi
12:00 < jonatack> hi
12:00 < harding> hi
12:00 < laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos
12:00 < laanwj> nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
12:01 < michaelfolkson> hi
12:01 < laanwj> no topics have been proposed using #proposedmeetingtopic this week
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12:01 < achow101> hi
12:01 < laanwj> any last minute topic proposals?
12:01 < laanwj> PSA: 22.0rc3 has been tagged today, please start your guix builders
12:02 < jarolrod> hi
12:02 < laanwj> a new 0.21.2 rc is also coming soon
12:03 < laanwj> #topic High priority for review
12:03 < core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
12:03 < jarolrod> time to bring out old reliable: gitian
12:03 < laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 6 blockers, 2 chasing concept ACK currently
12:04 < ariard__> jamesob: happy to re-review #21526 tonight if you're around
12:04 < laanwj> jarolrod: right, branch <=0.21 will keep using gitian for builds
12:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21526 | validation: UpdateTip/CheckBlockIndex assumeutxo support by jamesob · Pull Request #21526 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:06 < laanwj> anything to add/remove or that is almost ready for merge?
12:07 < laanwj> anything else to discuss? seems a short meeting today
12:07 < jonatack> don't hesitate to have a look at #22702 everyone, looks interesting, am running a node built with it
12:07 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22702 | [WIP] Add allocator for node based containers by martinus · Pull Request #22702 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:07 < laanwj> jonatack: should we add it to high prio?
12:08 < jonatack> laanwj: i don't know but wanted to mention it
12:09 < michaelfolkson> Very cool review of Erlay from 0xB10C https://github.com/naumenkogs/txrelaysim/issues/8#issuecomment-903255752
12:09 < laanwj> jonatack: as it's still WIP, it probably should be on there, but I'll take a look
12:09 < laanwj> michaelfolkson: great!
12:11 < laanwj> #endmeeting
12:11 < core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
12:11 < core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Aug 26 19:11:27 2021 UTC.  
12:11 < core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-08-26-19.00.moin.txt
12:11 < jonatack> yes, it was WIP but the remaining hurdles seem to have been solved
12:12 < ariard__> michaelfolkson: re bip125, well i'm still aiming to propose full-rbf for 0.24, though there is no guarantee it will land, still have to reach out to more historical opponents to have them express an opinion
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12:14 < ariard__> michaelfolkson: note, there is also a discussion between matt and i on why it might be preferable to depracte replace-by-fee towards replace-by-feerate here :https://lightningdevkit.slack.com/archives/CTBLT3CAU/p1625786787422100
12:15 < michaelfolkson> ariard__: Cool, thanks. I'm guessing as you've described it as a CVE for Lightning you have a strong preference for it to be changed in the meantime
12:16 < michaelfolkson> ariard__: (to follow the BIP logic)
12:17 < michaelfolkson> I'm just trying to understand whether we should really care about this or not
12:19 < michaelfolkson> Others have said (and I agree) that it isn't a CVE for Core
12:22 < michaelfolkson> Going forward I think we need to take the BIPs more seriously. Different world when the BIP was originally written
12:23 < harding> michaelfolkson: I don't think anyone took BIP125 less than seriously when it was written.
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12:25 < harding> I don't even know what "take the BIPs more seriously" means.
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12:29 < michaelfolkson> harding: Right but Lightning didn't even exist. There wasn't these layer effect where something that seems minor on a lower level can be important for an upper level
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12:36 < michaelfolkson> I guess if there are no policy BIPs ever again then it is less relevant. But I kinda think there should be. But the attitude of "the BIP gets overruled by whatever ended up in Core" shouldn't cut it in today's environment
12:37 < michaelfolkson> That seems the least and perhaps the most Core can do to help Lightning with this fuzzy policy guarantees problem
12:37 < harding> michaelfolkson: to nitpick a little, LN was first described several months before BIP125 was written, and there were two different types of payment channels available for use at that time (BlueMatt wrote the implementation of one; I was on the team that wrote a different implementation which had just gone into light production use).  Certainly second layer protocols are much more important today than they were back then, but it's not like 
12:37 < harding> people weren't thinking about them back then.
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12:38 < michaelfolkson> Fair enough
12:38 < prayank> Implementation of a BIP with some differences should be fine. Problem was not documenting these differences which was fixed in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21946
12:39 < BlueMatt> If you're trying to imply, michaelfolkson, that somehow bitcoin core review process is "fine" with a bip text saying something different than the implementation, I dont think thats ever been the case. mistakes happen, things are missed in review, but, indeed, its always been a thing that if the bip text disagrees with the implementation one or both need to be fixed.
12:39 < harding> michaelfolkson: of course what's in an implementation should overrule what's in a BIP.  BIPs are not laws, they're documentation.
12:39 < harding> michaelfolkson: implementations can do whatever they want.
12:39 < BlueMatt> which one depends on the situation, but I dont think anything here has changed in the past years, nor should it?
12:41 < michaelfolkson> BlueMatt: I'm not trying to imply that. But now we're in a situation where there is a difference between the BIP and the code what should be done?
12:41 < BlueMatt> we should look at the implementation, look at the BIP, decide which one makes more sense, and update the other one.
12:42 < michaelfolkson> I totally agree ^. But that surely involves Lightning implementations as it is more important for Lightning as it is Core
12:42 < sipa> FWIW, i disagree with changing the BIP - the number refers to the idea as it's written down, and changing it would only add confusion ("do you mean the old BIP125 approach or the new one?"); if we feel that this deserves a BIP in the first place, i think it'd need to be a new one
12:42 < harding> (I don't really care, but I'm slightly against changing old BIPs, though I wouldn't mind adding a note to the bottom about the issue.)
12:43 < BlueMatt> sure? And there's been some emails back and forth, though its not been a high priority for anyone, I believe.
12:43 < BlueMatt> sipa: sure, i suppose thats a process question
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12:43 < sipa> i don't have an opinion on whether the implementation should be changed, or the documentation (whether that's a BIP, or just a writeup of the policy)
12:44 < sipa> just pointing out that the choice isn't changing the code or changing the BIP - there are other ways of changing the documentation that are less confusing
12:44 < michaelfolkson> If Lightning implementations don't care that much then just leave it to what the Core mempool devs want to do which seems to be just stripping out references to the BIP
12:45 < michaelfolkson> If Lightning implementations do really care then that should be factored in
12:45 < BlueMatt> i believe lightning stuff *strongly* prefers as loose a mempool policy as possible :p
12:45 < sipa> whatever happens, the implemented policy should be well-documented
12:45 < michaelfolkson> That's why I asked ariard about how strong his preference was for updating policy to match the BIP
12:46 < harding> Differing mempool policies was actually anticipated, BIP125 says: "A Bitcoin Wiki page has been created to help wallet authors track deployed mempool policies relating to transaction replacement."  which links to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_replacement
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12:52 < bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #384: Add copy IP/Netmask action for banned peer (master...copy-subnet) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/384
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12:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/774a4f517cf6...b8d45a3c2015
12:52 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ab1461d Shashwat: qt: Add copy IP/Netmask action for banned peer
12:52 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b8d45a3 Hennadii Stepanov: Merge bitcoin-core/gui#384: Add copy IP/Netmask action for banned peer
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14:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #22276:  gui: update text to eliminate safety hazards (0.21...0.21) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22276
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14:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22810: qt: Pre-0.21.2rc2 translations update (0.21...210826-0.21-tr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22810
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15:34 < ariard__> michaelfolkson: i think it's preferable to well-document in the core code the divergences to the spec, instead of rewritting a new bip matching the code
15:35 < ariard__> and maybe add a small bottom note for the ln devs who aren't fluent in cpp
15:35 < ariard__> w.r.t to bip vs code, i think it's ultimately a case-by-case situation, weighting the implications
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16:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22811: build: Fix depends build system when working with subtargets (master...210826-subtarget) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22811
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16:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b8d45a3c2015...adccbb380b2e
16:53 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faf7e48 MarcoFalke: Set regtest.BIP65Height = 111 to speed up tests
16:53 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master adccbb3 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21862: test: Set regtest.BIP65Height = 111 to speed ...
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16:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21862: test: Set regtest.BIP65Height = 111 to speed up tests (master...2105-testFasterBip65) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21862
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17:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22814: build: Add ability to build qt in depends with -stdlib=libc++ (master...210827-libc++) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22814
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18:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21144: test: convert feature_bip68_sequence.py to use MiniWallet (master...test-feature-bip68-sequence-without-wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21144
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22:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22815: ci: Enable the gui in the tsan build (master...210827-tsan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22815
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23:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/adccbb380b2e...19364c0ddf22
23:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c713bb2 Hennadii Stepanov: Fix Windows build with --enable-werror on Ubuntu Focal
23:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b367745 Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Make Cirrus CI Windows build with --enable-werror
23:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 19364c0 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#20586: Fix Windows build with --enable-werror
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23:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20586: Fix Windows build with --enable-werror (master...201206-win) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20586
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 27 00:00:50 2021