--- Log opened Fri Feb 04 00:00:49 2022
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00:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3ace3a17c9bc...e8a3882e20f0
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c5dd72e Vasil Dimov: fuzz: move FuzzedSock earlier in src/test/fuzz/util.h
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c41a116 Vasil Dimov: net: use Sock in CNode
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b683491 Vasil Dimov: scripted-diff: rename CNode::cs_hSocket to CNode::m_sock_mutex
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00:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e8a3882e20f0...515200298b55
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d570a63 laanwj: qt: Update transifex resource blob to 23.0
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cf79c56 laanwj: init: Remove confusing '(possible integer overflow?)' from error message
00:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0425507 laanwj: qt: Update source translations
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00:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #24250: Update translations for 0.23 string freeze (master...2022-02-english-translation) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24250
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00:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23604: Use Sock in CNode (master...Sock_in_CNode) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23604
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00:32 < laanwj> Murch: regarding naming, it's easy to misinterpet "sweep" as "sweep an external private key to this wallet" instead of "sweep the entire wallet or a subset of the utxos to *some destination*", i was initially confused as well it might be more common
00:38 < laanwj> PSA: translations for 23.x have been opened
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01:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #24258: test: check localaddresses in getnetworkinfo for nodes with proxy (master...2022-02-check-localaddresses) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24258
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01:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24259: test: Remove unused valgrind suppressions (master...2202-v) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24259
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02:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/515200298b55...5c6b3d5b3508
02:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f7a19ef Shashwat: qt,refactor: Use std::chrono in TrafficGraphWidget class
02:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5c6b3d5 Hennadii Stepanov: Merge bitcoin-core/gui#524: Replace int with std::chrono in for the timer-...
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02:40 < bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #524: Replace int with std::chrono in for the timer->setInterval() argument (master...220112-chrono) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/524
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03:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #23545: scripted-diff: Use clang-tidy syntax for C++ named arguments (master...2109-docNamedArgs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23545
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04:10 < laanwj> were any new bips implemented in the 0.23 release that haven't been added to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/bips.md yet?
04:10 < laanwj> and/or removed of course
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04:13 < laanwj> this would be a good time to check
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04:36 < laanwj> apparently we didn't do a hardcoded seeds update for 22.0 (at least not for ipv4/ipv6, and we don't really have an automated way to generate hardcoded seeds for torv3/i2p/cjdns yet)
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04:37 < fanquake> I'm not sure there are enough (reliable) seeds of those type yet
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04:37 < laanwj> maybe for torv3, but agree on the other ones
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04:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5c6b3d5b3508...a5edd191be93
04:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 985d85e Hennadii Stepanov: Follow Transifex docs to prepare XLIFF source
04:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a5edd19 laanwj: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22151: build: Follow Transifex docs to prepare XLIFF...
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04:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22151: build: Follow Transifex docs to prepare XLIFF source (master...210604-xliff) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22151
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04:45 < laanwj> hebasto: ^^ that one should have gone in before #24250 but anyhow, we'll get it for the next source translations update
04:45 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24250 | Update translations for 0.23 string freeze by laanwj · Pull Request #24250 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
04:48 < laanwj> ah yeah manual page geneation needs to be fixed as well before 23.0 rc1 #22681
04:48 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22681 | Manual page generation on master broken · Issue #22681 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
04:49 < laanwj> or just port over the hack https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c1c79f4c816fa1224ad593f2af90752160fabb09 as we never got around to really fixing the script
04:49 < fanquake> removing sed seems like a good solution :p
04:49 < fanquake> we have a history of doing that
04:51 < laanwj> i remember there was some other problem with it too, but i don't remember what anymore
04:52 < fanquake> I must be naive to think that man page generation would be a "solved" problem 
04:53 < laanwj> i might just reimplement the script from scratch in python or something
04:54 < fanquake> sounds more fun than bash. throw away the cruft
04:54 < laanwj> right, at least it makes explicit what is really happening, and why, i'm tired of line-noise style programming
05:06 < jonatack> fwiw bitcoin-cli -addrinfo shows more than 10k onion (torv3) peers for me
05:07 < jonatack> (i2p 160, cjdns 4)
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05:22 < lightlike> jonatack: https://bitnodes.io/nodes/ also indicates a LOT of onion nodes, more than 50% of all listening nodes
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05:30 < jonatack> lightlike: bitnode numbers seem low, especially for IP peers; i usually see 40k-55k ipv4 and 8k-10k+ ipv6 in -addrinfo (depending on how long ago i lost or swapped out peers.dat for testing)
05:36 < lightlike> jonatack: I think bitnode only lists listening peers it can successfully connect to. -addrinfo should additionally include lots of peers that self-advertise their address,  but are unreachable for others, e.g. behind firewalls.
05:43 < jonatack> right
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06:10 < Murch> laanwj: Thanks, I'll ponder whether I can come up with a better name.
06:19 < lightlike> Murch: maybe just "sweepwallet", so it's in line with other commands that affect an entire wallet, such as backupwallet, dumpwallet, importwallet, restorewallet?
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06:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24262: upstream: Update minisketch subtree (master...update_minisketch_subtree) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24262
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07:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a5edd191be93...b2a8371913a8
07:30 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8fcb19f fanquake: Squashed 'src/minisketch/' changes from 89629eb2c7..7eeb778fef
07:30 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4382d09 fanquake: Update minisketch subtree to latest upstream
07:30 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b2a8371 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24262: upstream: Update minisketch subtree
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07:30 < Murch> <lightlike> "Murch: maybe just "sweepwallet",..." <- It can either sweep the whole UTXO pool (which is the default behavior), or just a given UTXO set, though.
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07:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24262: upstream: Update minisketch subtree (master...update_minisketch_subtree) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24262
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07:31 < Murch> Might be a good distinction from the understanding that laanwj had, though
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07:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #24263: doc: Fix gen-manpages, rewrite in Python (master...2022-02-gen-manpages) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24263
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07:50 < laanwj> Murch: lightlike: sweepwallet SGTM, it makes it clear that a wallet (or subset) is being swept, and not, say, a private key
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07:54 < gleb7454386> Getting this error on macos: `test/lint/lint-python.sh: line 106: syntax error near unexpected token `<'`
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07:57 < gleb7454386> The next line is supposed to explain something: `test/lint/lint-python.sh: line 106: `mapfile -t FILES < <(git ls-files "test/functional/*.py" "contrib/devtools/*.py")'`
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08:06 < laanwj> gleb7454386: are you sure you're running it in bash and not another shell?
08:06 < jonatack> gleb7454386: on master? (lint-python.sh is green for me on debian testing)
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08:07 < laanwj> it uses arrays which is a bash-ism, maybe someone should rewrite lint-python in python *hides*
08:08 < sipa> Hopefully in linted python.
08:08 < laanwj> heh
08:08 < jonatack> oh right, maybe the macos bash -> zsh thing
08:16 < laanwj> i don't think i've ever seen "mapfile" used, nor a double redirect like "< <"
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08:21 < gleb7454386> i call it this way: `sh test/lint/lint-python.sh`
08:21 < laanwj> you need to use bash, not sh
08:22 < gleb7454386> ah thank you
08:22 < laanwj> sh is usually a link to some other, minimal posix compatible shell
08:23 < gleb7454386> now it gives `test/lint/lint-python.sh: line 106: mapfile: command not found`, but i can probably figure that out...
08:23 < laanwj> note that the first line of test/lint/lint-python.sh correctly specifies bash, so if you launch it as binary it should find the right interpreter
08:24 < laanwj> huh, that's an internal command
08:25 < gleb7454386> my system hash bash 3, and apparently bash 4 is needed
08:26 < laanwj> that's definitely old, bash 5 has been out for quite a while now
08:27 < gleb7454386> mine setup is just a regular macbook from last year without any modifications... but yeah, whatever, from here i can definitely figure it out :)
08:27 < laanwj> i didn't know there were still significant changes to shell syntax in modern times tbh
08:30 < laanwj> it's too bad posix shell never got a array syntax so they all roll their own
08:33 < laanwj> without arrays even handling basic things like filenames with spaces is broken
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08:42 < cfields> I would've assumed the "< <" was a bug. I still can't parse it. Does "<(" have special meaning?
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09:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Mr-Leshiy opened pull request #24264: Fix potential deadlock assertion failure (master...fix-deadlock-assert) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24264
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10:00 < laanwj> i honestly have no idea, i think there's something to be said we should avoid advanced shellscript like that because no one can review it
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10:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Mr-Leshiy closed pull request #24264: Fix potential deadlock assertion failure (master...fix-deadlock-assert) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24264
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10:01 < laanwj> please just write the damn things in python
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10:10 < prayank> cfields: it can become penguin emoji but will need 2 more chars
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10:21 < laanwj> heh
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10:21 < jamesob> laanwj: amen
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11:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #19463: Prune locks (master...prune_locks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19463
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12:00 < Murch> laanwj: Cool, I think we'll go with that then.
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13:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24265: Drop StripRedundantLastElementsOfPath() function and re-enable Windows tests (master...220204-norm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24265
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13:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24266: util: Avoid buggy std::filesystem:::create_directories() call (master...220204-dirs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24266
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14:00 < prayank> Recently one dependency was removed from core: boost. I could remember some discusion about it when I worked on a PR and it was interesting to see that one reviewer had to use sudo to test it: #21944
14:00 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21944 | wallet: Fix issues when `walletdir` is root directory by prayank23 · Pull Request #21944 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
14:00 < prayank> hebasto: I was looking at #24266 and not sure if this is related in any way
14:00 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24266 | util: Avoid buggy std::filesystem:::create_directories() call by hebasto · Pull Request #24266 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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17:52 < prayank> Sorry if this looks offtopic because of link but concept is ontopic. After working on several privacy related PRs in Core and then WW2 I realized core is not that bad with no marketing and coinjoin. Privacy is expressing yourself selectively. Everything is public on Bitcoin but if user wants to share links of transactions with less people that is privacy.
17:52 < prayank> Coin Control is important and should always remain part of bitcoin wallets that care about privacy. If UX needs to be improved there can be a checkbox in settings to disable it. Or if wallet has no coin control but cluster control, removing it will not reduce errors it will change nature of errors and create new issues.
17:53 < sipa> Is this just a shower thought?
17:54 < sipa> I'm not sure what you're asking or trying to say.
17:54 < prayank> Forgot the reason for it being OT which was this video that proves you cannot rely on automation to reduce errors: https://youtu.be/0cS1SMptlnQ 
17:55 < prayank> sipa: context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sjov2h/comment/hvn4zfg/
17:57 < sipa> It does seem more appropriate for reddit.
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17:59 < prayank> I hope people understand "coin selection algo" there because last I posted something there was no reesponse that helped in anything or maybe it involved Luke Dashjr
18:00 < sipa> I still have no idea what you're trying to say or ask.
18:01 < prayank> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rrp90i/address_reuse_is_bad_for_privacy/
18:01 < prayank> PR #22693
18:01 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22693 | RPC/Wallet: Add "use_txids" to output of getaddressinfo by luke-jr · Pull Request #22693 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
18:02 < sipa> You're rambling.
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18:02 < prayank> sipa: no I am answering your questions with links
18:03 < sipa> Yes, address reuse is bad, why do you mention that now, here?
18:03 < sipa> What about that PR, what do you want someone to do?
18:03 < sipa> What about that reddit thread?
18:03 < sipa> You're mentioning a bunch of vaguely-related things, but I have no clue what your point is.
18:03 < prayank> sipa: because context was 'reddit'
18:03 < prayank> posting on reddit does not help when its related to core
18:04 < prayank> I will post here
18:04 < sipa> Ok, you say "help", help with what? What are you trying to say?
18:05 < prayank> I never said help
18:05 < sipa> You literally did, 4 lines above "posting on reddit does not help when its related to core"
18:06 < prayank> in the first 2 messages 
18:06 < sipa> So, again, what is your point
18:07 < prayank> these are thoughts about coin selection algo and privacy which could have been helpful but it seems you don't like some people writing here
18:07 < sipa> Share them on twitter or reddit or something, if they're just shower thoughts.
18:08 < prayank> they are not shower thoughts and better than lot of conversation in this channel
18:08 < sipa> Then I still don't know what your point is.
18:11 < prayank> sipa: there must be a reasons I shared here? I dont get likes, retweets here. You want developers to discuss things on twitter or reddit when its not required or helps in anything?
18:13 < sipa> Probably. I don't know what the reason is you mention these things here.
18:13 < sipa> You're at best preaching to the choir.
18:13 < prayank> sipa: coin selection, privacy and my involvement with these topics 
18:15 < sipa> Yes, but what do you want to say about them?
18:15 < sipa> If you have thoughts on improving them, concretely, in bitcoin core, and want to work on that, by all means!
18:15 < sipa> But you're just... mentioning vaguely related stuff and I don't know what your point is.
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18:18 < sipa> Are you saying people should work on something? That this PR you linked to deserves attention? That address reuse is bad (yes, it is, but what do you want to do about it?)
18:21 < sipa> So again, if you actually have a topic related to this codebase, go ahead. But otherwise, please take it elsewhere.
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18:29 < prayank> sipa: this was a topic related to core and I will share such things in future as well (not elsewhere). We can do these arguments with lot of people but we don't. You call offtopic altcoins related post being edited on stackexchange as policing, you call people watching sports as dumb but still should be allowed, you think energy can be used for anything and does not need policing, you work on a protocol which is censorship resi
18:29 < prayank> stant but want to stop someone from writing because you don't like it? 
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18:33 < Murch> Well, that was confusing
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18:39 < prayank> Murch: context: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/105375/103136 and https://i.imgur.com/ATdqCVW.jpg
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18:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b2a8371913a8...372cb6c18642
18:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 824e1ff Ryan Ofsky: bench: Represents paths with fs::path instead of std::string
18:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 372cb6c fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24252: bench: Represent paths with fs::path instead ...
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18:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24252: bench: Represent paths with fs::path instead of std::string (master...pr/bp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24252
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19:00 < Murch> How is that related to coin control? o.0
19:03 < Murch> I have read your chat messages four times now, but I don't understand how the things you wrote connect. That's the thing that is confusing. You seem to be very concerned about something, but I cannot tell what your topic is. It seems to have something to do with allowing people to pick their own inputs at first, but then you mention not getting support on Reddit, and a question about hardware wallets going out of business.
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19:04 < prayank> Murch: You said its confusing and not "coin control" so I assumed the part about stackexchange : https://bitcoin-irc.chaincode.com/bitcoin-core-dev/2022-02-05#774608;
19:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/774608 | HTTP Error 404: Not Found
19:05 < Murch> It feels like you have some golden thread per which all of these things are connected, but you're not sharing enough of that for me to follow your thought process, so it just looks like completely unconnected pieces of information that have vaguely something to do with wallet behavior?
19:05 < prayank> Much: Sorry about the confusion give me few minutes I will rephrase my thoughts and maybe it helps 
19:06 < Murch> If you want to people to engage with your topic, you might need to put yourself a bit more in the reader's shoes so you actually pick them up where they're at. Unfortunately, most people cannot read minds.
19:10 < Murch> "Coin Control" refers to functionality that lets a user manually pick which UTXOs they use in a transactino.
19:10 < Murch> How does a hardware wallet manufacturer going out of business intersect with that?
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19:16 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] nymkappa opened pull request #24267: If DataDir is a symbolic link, manually follow it (master...bugfix/follow-symlinks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24267
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19:19 < prayank> Murch: I wrote these 5 points rephrasing my initial messages
19:19 < prayank> 1. In Wasabi Wallet 2 we had pockets/clusters which is group of coins/utxos. It will most probably be removed which I disagree with but it seems that helps UX.
19:19 < prayank> 2. In Bitcoin Core we still have coin control and recently fixed locking coins.
19:19 < prayank> 3. Core has no coinjoin but privacy is not limited to UTXO that comes out of coinjoin process, privacy is what you want to share with world or can be linked with other tx
19:19 < prayank> 4. Private funds of Private coins do not exis in Bitcoin. Everything is public but they may not be aware who did this tx.
19:19 < prayank> 5. Please watch this video: https://youtu.be/0cS1SMptlnQ (I agree with what he said after 36:00
19:19 < prayank> *or in 4
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19:24 < Murch> Do you mean to say that we must always allow the human user to be fully in control of a wallet?
19:24 < Murch> Is that your point?
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19:25 < prayank> Murch: There are trade offs and both should exist.
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19:30 < Murch> Okay, so why does that need to be discussed. Do you think someone wants to remove coin control from Bitcoin Core's wallet?
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19:41 < prayank> Murch: I fear or scared or I dont have the vocabulary for it. It should always remain and if ever we have lot volume in WW2 it should not become the reason to remove it. Also coin selection algos were recently being discussed and changed so I felt its relevant as kind of research. Its not related to consensus so can't even post to mailing list.
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19:50 < Murch> The coin selection algorithms evolving only changes the automatic behavior, though. I don't see why that would impact Coin Control. I think many developers and users agree that Coin Control is useful, though, and therefore it's unlikely to be in danger of being removed.—I'm not sure what "WW2" would refer to in this context. The meaning I associate with that abbreviation does not seem to fit in this context.
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19:53 < prayank> Sorry WW2 is Wasabi Wallet 2
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19:56 < Murch> Okay, but what does WW2 have to do with this channel? [o.0]
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19:57 < Murch> Or is that just an example of someone else making the wrong choice according to your taset?
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19:58 < prayank> Murch: I think I already shared this: 1. My fear 2. Research about coin selection and privacy
20:00 < Murch> Well, you can keep an eye on wallet developments to remind us when we touch Coin Control
20:01 < prayank> Sure. Thanks.
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