--- Log opened Fri Feb 11 00:00:56 2022
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00:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a7e80449c081...5f7f2f7ffad1
00:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ddcac22 jarolrod: doc: cleanup doc on need of Developer Account to obtain macOS SDK
00:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5f7f2f7 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24241: doc: cleanup doc on need of Developer Account...
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00:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24241: doc: cleanup doc on need of Developer Account to obtain macOS SDK (master...macdeploy-readme-cleanups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24241
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03:28 < michaelfolkson> prayank: Firstly please be less accusatory in tone until you fully understand what has occurred. kanzure and others have kept the mailing list going for years voluntarily and shouldn't have to jump to IRC to defend themselves against premature conclusions
03:29 < michaelfolkson> Secondly, this is the wrong IRC channel for these discussions. We've set up #bitcoin-dev for discussion on BIPs, mailing list posts. This is not a Core development issue
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03:40 < hebasto> just wrote to support+ci@cirruslabs.org about `arm_container` failure in CI
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03:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24316: ci: Follow Cirrus CI docs (master...220211-ci-macos) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24316
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04:23 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5f7f2f7ffad1...bcecde64b4ad
04:23 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c49e7db Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Follow Cirrus CI docs
04:23 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bcecde6 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24316: ci: Rename Cirrus CI osx_instance to macos_in...
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04:23 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24316: ci: Rename Cirrus CI osx_instance to macos_instance (master...220211-ci-macos) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24316
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07:09 < laanwj> sorry for not catching https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24257#issuecomment-1036272515 sooner btw, seems i've been a bit lax with testing the std::filesystem pr
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07:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bcecde64b4ad...b79c40b057ec
07:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ee822d8 Vasil Dimov: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method
07:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b79c40b MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24308: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method
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07:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24308: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method (master...20435_rebased) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24308
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07:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dev7ba opened pull request #24318: doc: ZMQ documentation fix regarding topics (master...zmqDocFix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24318
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08:23 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24319: refactor: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in core_write (master...2202-intW) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24319
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09:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b79c40b057ec...2d7ea201fc17
09:20 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b75f4c8 Kristaps Kaupe: RPC: Return external_signer in getwalletinfo
09:20 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2d7ea20 Andrew Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24307: RPC: Return external_signer in getwalletinfo
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09:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #24307: RPC: Return external_signer in getwalletinfo (master...getwalletinfo-external_signer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24307
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11:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
11:00 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Fri Feb 11 19:00:18 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
11:00 < core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
11:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik 
11:00 < achow101> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
11:00 < Murch> Hi
11:01 < achow101> there are no pre-proposed topics, anyone have anything to discuss?
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11:02 < S3RK> hi
11:02 < S3RK> I'm working on the test cases for bnb without limit
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11:03 < S3RK> was able to reproduce a case when it dropped >250k sats
11:04 < Murch> Ouch!
11:04 < achow101> are you able to run simulations?
11:04 < S3RK> my laptop is too slow for the simulations that you run
11:04 < Murch> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic Better name for `sweepwallet` RPC
11:05 < achow101> S3RK: that's unfortunate
11:06 < Murch> S3RK: How would you propose to curb such high amounts?
11:06 < Murch> Random Selection doesn't necessarily get a better result, although with that sort of amount it should be extremely likely
11:06 < Murch> I guess Knapsack should also get something with a lower waste
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11:07 < S3RK> the worst case is when knapsack latches onto an exact match with many inputs
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11:07 < S3RK> and due to sheer amount of inputs in the wallet SRD can't find predictably a good solution either
11:08 < S3RK> i have two ideas 1) keep the limit but move it higher
11:08 < S3RK> 2) introduce another selection algo in the mix that will find solution in such cases
11:08 < S3RK> #1 is pretty easy, I'll do a bit more research on what is a good value for the limit
11:08 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1 | JSON-RPC support for mobile devices ("ultra-lightweight" clients) · Issue #1 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:09 < S3RK> lol
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11:10 < achow101> I think another algo is going to be more difficult than finding a better limit
11:10 < Murch> Well, in what way?
11:10 < S3RK> the thing is even with higher limit the selection in such scenario is pretty bad
11:10 < S3RK> the waste is huuuge
11:10 < Murch> Yeah
11:10 < S3RK> and it's kind of obvious what is the optimal solution
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11:11 < Murch> S3RK: Obvious in a way that can be formalized? ;)
11:11 < S3RK> I'll polish the test and make PR, would be easier to discuss on examples
11:11 < michaelfolkson> hi
11:11 < glozow> hi
11:11 < Murch> oh, you mean for the higher limit?
11:12 < S3RK> murch: not sure about formalization
11:13 < jonatack> hi (wallet meeting started ten minutes ago or is it at the top of the next hour?)
11:13 < S3RK> I think an algo minimizing the fees would find it
11:13 < Murch> jonatack: it's on-going
11:13 < jonatack> Murch: ty
11:13 < achow101> S3RK: yes, examples would be useful
11:14 < Murch> or just LF
11:14 < Murch> S3RK: Oh, sure. But that would essentially boil down to smallest input larger than the target
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11:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl opened pull request #24322: [kernel 1/n] Introduce initial `libbitcoinkernel` (master...2022-02-libbitcoinkernel-p1-minimal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24322
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11:14 < Murch> For a single selection that's of course optimal
11:14 < Murch> It's probably not optimal for the long-term, though
11:14 < S3RK> not always, because consolidation could be better if fees are low
11:14 < S3RK> but I understand the challenge
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11:15 < S3RK> maybe we can punish such solutions by some fixed waster
11:15 < S3RK> idk
11:15 < Murch> Right, but that wouldn't be minimizing fees
11:15 < Murch> But rather minimizing waste :)
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11:15 < Murch> mh.
11:15 < S3RK> well... I mean the algo searches for the minimum fee solution
11:16 < S3RK> but the final result is selected by waste
11:16 < Murch> ah yes
11:16 < S3RK> which means that the algo won't always win
11:16 < Murch> Right, but it would also mean that we would usually get a single input solution for anything above 10 sat/vB
11:17 < S3RK> I agree it might skew the selection too much. just an idea
11:17 < Murch> Occasionally, maybe a BnB solution with two inputs that has better waste
11:17 < Murch> Yeha, sorry, I'm not trying to dissuade brain storming
11:18 < Murch> I was just considering it as well, but I think it would basically get rid of almost all other solutions
11:18 < Murch> (for the high feerate case, that is)
11:18 < S3RK> oh! what if we do run knapsack with a few change targets?
11:18 < S3RK> the problem now is that if there is an exact match knapsack quits
11:19 < achow101> I thought we were plannin on ditching knapsack
11:19 < S3RK> I'm not sure SRD + bnb only cover all cases, like the one we are dicussing no
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11:19 < Murch> achow101: Yeah, but isn't it currently providing something like 60% of all selection solutions? We should probably find something that beats Knapsack before getting rid of it
11:21 < Murch> I don't like how computationally inefficient it is, but it currently seems to be the best solution per waste metric most of the time
11:22 < Murch> mh. If there is an exact match, we should also find it with BnB.
11:22 < Murch> Perhaps we could just kick that out of Knapsack's terminal conditions?
11:22 < S3RK> we do, but the waste sucks. and BnB preffers to drop 250k sats to fees
11:23 < Murch> Oh, you mean in the case that we get an input set with tons of inputs
11:23 < S3RK> yes
11:23 < Murch> Well, that would be more of a bug than intended behavior, wouldn't it?
11:23 < achow101> if I understand correctly, both bnb without limit and knapsack find solutions that suck, when there is a better one?
11:23 < S3RK> indeed
11:24 < S3RK> the scenario is like this
11:24 < achow101> for some definition of better that doesn't quite include waste?
11:24 < S3RK> we have one big coin and tons of small ones
11:24 < S3RK> we send an amount that is exact match of 100 small coins AND just under big coin
11:24 < Murch> Isn't it more like "BnB without limit finds always a solution, but they suck sometimes"?
11:25 < S3RK> bnb without limit finds a solution when we use one big coin and drop the rest for fees
11:25 < S3RK> knapsack finds exact match which is bad
11:25 < S3RK> the optimal is to take one big coin + maybe a few small and create change
11:25 < achow101> hmm, maybe we need a knapsack replacement that doesn't do exact match
11:26 < S3RK> SRD could find it, but if there are tons of coins that the chances are not in our favor
11:26 < Murch> Right
11:26 < Murch> Makes sense
11:27 < achow101> knapsack also does a couple different things, perhaps we should split it up. e.g. the "lowest larger" part of it sounds like it would solve this problem
11:27 < Murch> Has any of you ever looked into the "blackjack" algo?
11:27 < S3RK> Murch saying just having lowet larger would skew selection too much
11:27 < S3RK> didn't look into "blakjack" algo
11:28 < Murch> achow101: lowest larger would probably almost always win the waste metric for high feerate cases
11:28 < S3RK> but what about running knapsack (or any other algo which optimizes for amount match) two times
11:28 < S3RK> one time with the target amount and another with that + some change target
11:28 < Murch> So it would highly favor short term optimal solutions but encourage fragmentation of the wallet in the long run
11:29 < S3RK> (stupid me, this doesn't help)
11:29 < achow101> Murch: what about lowest larger without a change target?
11:29 < achow101> (i.e. burn the excess)
11:29 < S3RK> that's bnb-without-limit
11:29 < Murch> Blackjack in a couple sentences: continuously pick the largest coin smaller than the missing amount. When no such coin exists, add smallest larger
11:30 < Murch> So, it'll always pick a few inputs, but in the end will always find a solution
11:30 < S3RK> will it find solution in the scenario I described above?
11:30 < S3RK> sounds like no
11:30 < Murch> It should also be somewhat consolidatory at low feerates
11:31 < Murch> mhh.
11:31 < Murch> S3RK: Ugh, you're right
11:31 < Murch> Maybe if you limit the first part to ~5 or ten inputs
11:31 < achow101> I'm slightly confused. I think I need to look at an actual input set
11:32 < S3RK> yes, it's difficult to keep in the head
11:32 < achow101> need a whiteboard :)
11:32 < S3RK> I'll do a PR once I clean up the code
11:32 < S3RK> helped me a lot to reason about it
11:33 < S3RK> that's all from me
11:33 < achow101> ok, I'll wait for that
11:33 < Murch> achow101: You have 100× 1 m₿ and 1× 102.5 m₿. Select for 100 m₿
11:34 < achow101> #topic Better name for `sweepwallet` RPC (Murch)
11:34 < core-meetingbot`> topic: Better name for `sweepwallet` RPC (Murch)
11:34 < Murch> Okay
11:35 < Murch> Well, the proposed RPC was first named `sweep`, and multiple people said that their first instinct was that its function was to take the funds from an external privKey and send the funds into the wallet
11:35 < Murch> So we renamed it to `sweepwallet` thinking that this would distinguish it, but the comment has come up again :)
11:36 < Murch> So, I'm open for people proposing a better name for an RPC that has the function of:
11:36 < Murch> • Take a set of UTXOs and send all of it to a recipient deducting fees
11:36 < S3RK> sendcoind/sendutxos?
11:37 < achow101> I think sweepwallet is fine
11:37 < S3RK> sweepwallet is also fine with me fwiw
11:38 < Murch> Mh. `sendcoins` does kinda work for me
11:38 < Murch> Anyway, I don't want to dwell on it too much. If people have ideas, please dm me, or post on the PR.
11:39 < Murch> If we don't come up with something much better, I'd just stick with it, though
11:40 < Murch> That's #24118 I'm talking about, btw
11:40 < achow101> anything else to discuss?
11:40 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24118 | Add sweepwallet RPC by Xekyo · Pull Request #24118 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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11:40 < Murch> That's it from me
11:41 < achow101> #endmeeting
11:41 < core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
11:41 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Fri Feb 11 19:41:07 2022 UTC.  
11:41 < core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-02-11-19.00.moin.txt
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11:41 < S3RK> have a nice weekend, everybody!
11:41 < Murch> Thanks, you too
11:43 < warren> Murch: "emptywallet" seems abundantly clear in intent?
11:43 < jonatack> Murch: if you're not targeting v23 (it seems to be too late), at least we'll have some time to correct the RPC name, and the options vs positional args thing, if people prefer to
11:46 < Murch> Yeah, I think it'll not make the feature freeze
11:48 < warren> To clarify the existing SFFA used with manual Coin Control selection is not going away right? I use that a lot.
11:49 < achow101> warren: you can specify specific inputs in sweep and it will spend only those inputs
11:50 < warren> Will I no longer be able to click the inputs I want in the Coin Control window?
11:50 < achow101> the gui is currently not changing
11:51 < warren> OK, Coin Control + SFFA will continue to work?
11:51 < achow101> yes
11:51 < warren> Coin Control GUI + SFFA
11:51 < warren> k thanks
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11:57 < jonatack> warren: +1, i use SFFA a lot
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13:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2d7ea201fc17...3bb93940703e
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 75ae39e fanquake: build: add a default build tar in depends
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 471d155 fanquake: build: add support for OpenBSD to depends
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3bb9394 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23998: build: support OpenBSD in depends
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13:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23998: build: support OpenBSD in depends (master...depends_support_openbsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23998
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13:34 < Skyz> Hello
13:35 < Skyz> I have zero experience but want to get into security on the blockchain
13:36 < Skyz> Any leads?
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17:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #24324: test: refactor: remove uneeded bytes<->hex conversions in `byte_to_base58` (master...202202-test-refactor_simplify-byte_to_base58) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24324
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 12 00:00:57 2022