--- Log opened Fri Mar 11 00:00:22 2022
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01:07 < Guest3> Hello I have some questions. Why I can't see some messages?
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01:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24528: rpc: rename getdeploymentinfo status-next to status_next (master...getdeploymentinfo-rename-status-next-to-status_next) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24528
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01:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack closed pull request #24528: rpc: rename getdeploymentinfo status-next to status_next (master...getdeploymentinfo-rename-status-next-to-status_next) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24528
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02:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack reopened pull request #24528: rpc: rename getdeploymentinfo status-next to status_next (master...getdeploymentinfo-rename-status-next-to-status_next) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24528
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02:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/93feabcb30e3...f661da70b932
02:24 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1d4157a Hennadii Stepanov: build: Fix Boost.Process detection on macOS arm64
02:24 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f661da7 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24521: build: Fix Boost.Process detection on macOS a...
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02:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24521: build: Fix Boost.Process detection on macOS arm64 (master...220310-boost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24521
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02:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f661da70b932...ce1fabe5454d
02:27 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f1f994a Hennadii Stepanov: doc: Add `guix` prefix for changes to reproducible builds
02:27 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce1fabe fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24509: doc: Add `guix` prefix for changes to reprodu...
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02:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24509: doc: Add `guix` prefix for changes to reproducible builds (master...220309-prefix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24509
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03:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ce1fabe5454d...bb0b39ce6fde
03:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8336a06 fanquake: doc: remove Boost LDFLAGS from netBSD build docs
03:26 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bb0b39c fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24524: doc: remove Boost LDFLAGS from netBSD build d...
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03:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24524: doc: remove Boost LDFLAGS from netBSD build docs (master...remove_boost_ldflags) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24524
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04:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #24530: wallet: assert BnB's internally calculated waste is the same as GetSelectionWaste (master...2022-03-bnb-waste) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24530
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05:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24531: Use designated initializers (master...2203-designated_init-🛍) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24531
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06:44 < fanquake> I have invited  Murch (Xekyo) to the bitcoin and bitcoin-core organisations, so we can request reviews from him.
06:45 < Murch> 👀
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06:54 < sipa> all of the responsibility, none of the power ;)
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07:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bb0b39ce6fde...23e8c702bc95
07:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 40e871d glozow: [miner] always assume we can create witness blocks
07:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 23e8c70 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24421: miner: always assume we can build witness blo...
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07:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24421: miner: always assume we can build witness blocks (master...2022-02-miner-fincludewitness) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24421
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07:03 < fanquake> maximum fun
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07:11 < Earnest> (It's funny because there it's not responsibility if there is no power)
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07:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/23e8c702bc95...a81717443f04
07:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9d5e693 Luke Dashjr: Bugfix: doc: Correct type of change_address/changeAddress in wallet RPC he...
07:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e827202 Luke Dashjr: doc: Use human-friendly DefaultHint for change_address/changeAddress in wa...
07:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a817174 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24453: Bugfix: doc: Correct change_address/changeAdd...
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07:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24453: Bugfix: doc: Correct change_address/changeAddress in wallet RPC help (master...fix_rpcdoc_changeaddr_STR) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24453
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07:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #24533: test: use MiniWallet for feature_maxuploadtarget.py (master...202203-test-use_MiniWallet_for_feature_maxuploadtarget) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24533
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07:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24534: contrib: macdeploy: make gen-sdk deterministic (master...deterministic-macos-sdk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24534
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07:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24535: test: Fix generate calls and comments in feature_segwit (master...2203-test_fix_seg-🏌) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24535
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08:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a81717443f04...c109e7d51c9c
08:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ec7d736 glozow: [wallet] assert BnB internally calculated waste is the same as GetSelectio...
08:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c109e7d Andrew Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24530: wallet: assert BnB's internally calculated wa...
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08:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #24530: wallet: assert BnB's internally calculated waste is the same as GetSelectionWaste (master...2022-03-bnb-waste) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24530
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08:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24537: rpc: Split mempool RPCs from blockchain.cpp (master...2203-mempoolRpc-🌛) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24537
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08:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #24538: miner: bug fix? update for ancestor inclusion using modified fees, not base (master...2022-03-miner-prioritised) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24538
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11:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
11:00 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Fri Mar 11 19:00:17 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
11:00 < core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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11:00 < michaelfolkson> hi
11:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik 
11:00 < achow101> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
11:01 < achow101> There are no pre-proposed topics. Anyone have something to discuss?
11:01 < michaelfolkson> A couple of mini topics
11:01 < sipa> hi
11:02 < michaelfolkson> With possible modifications to BIP 371 is this something that we can stew on for a while or does a decision need to be made soon?
11:02 < jeremyrubin> yes
11:02 < michaelfolkson> I saw rust-bitcoin (?) wanted to merge something/release something?
11:02 < achow101> michaelfolkson: I think it is too late to make changes to BIP 371
11:02 < sipa> I think so too.
11:03 < jeremyrubin> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic what are hww / hwi supposed to do with PSBTs / Signer role functionality 
11:03 < michaelfolkson> Ok fair enough
11:03 < sipa> I suggested the change before knowing it was deployed anywhere.
11:03 < michaelfolkson> I'll close my issue then
11:03 < michaelfolkson> We can go to Jeremy's topic
11:04 < jeremyrubin> have you talked to salvatore sipa? it's ledger that deployed right?
11:04 < sipa> he commented on the issue
11:04 < achow101> Others may have as well. We don't know.
11:04 < michaelfolkson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24492
11:04 < sipa> but just the fact that anyone already implemented it, thinking is was complete, makes the bar to change it a lot higher
11:04 < sipa> they may not be the only one
11:05 < jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: you should include this in your BIP process tweaks, we should add some kind of 'dontimplementyet' type tag
11:05 < sipa> I don't think that helps. This BIP wouldn't have had such a tag.
11:06 < sipa> I was just too late with my feedback; so be it.
11:06 < achow101> Ideally the "don't implement yet" stage is when it's on the mailng list prior to being PR'd to bips
11:06 < achow101> and that people would comment on BIPs when they are proposed to the mailing list before the PR is opened
11:06 < jeremyrubin> > ideally
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11:08 < michaelfolkson> The BIP is still draft. Presumably now it is implemented in the wild that should just move to final
11:08 < jeremyrubin> draft is kinda meaningless
11:08 < achow101> indeed...
11:08 < sipa> I think tis discussion does not belong here
11:08 < sipa> *this
11:08 < jeremyrubin> sipa: +1
11:08 < michaelfolkson> Fair enough
11:08 < achow101> #topic  what are hww / hwi supposed to do with PSBTs / Signer role functionality (jeremyrubin)
11:08 < core-meetingbot`> topic: what are hww / hwi supposed to do with PSBTs / Signer role functionality (jeremyrubin)
11:08 < jeremyrubin> so there has been a little discussion in rust-miniscript on this
11:08 < jeremyrubin> see https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-miniscript/pull/305
11:09 < jeremyrubin> basically, it's not really clear (at least *to me*) what is supposed to happen with the satisfaction of miniscript stuff w.r.t. HWWs 
11:09 < jeremyrubin> i.e., BIP-174 defines things that a signer must verify (like the parent txns of all outputs being spent AFAIU?)
11:10 < jeremyrubin> but it's not really clear to me either if the signer is in HWW how that data is getting shuttled over to the singing 'enclave'
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11:11 < jeremyrubin> rust-miniscript has this thing called a Satisfier which is an API to "look up" a key out of the PSBT itself, which in theory could be used to "look up" a signature out of HWW (if it sent it all the right information?)
11:11 < achow101> jeremyrubin: the psbt is supposed to contain all of the things the hww needs in order to sign
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11:11 < sipa> this seems more like rust-miniscript API question than a question about wallets (and even less about bitcoin core's wallet)
11:12 < jeremyrubin> well in 174 it says "Before signing a non-witness input, the Signer must verify that the TXID of the non-witness UTXO matches the TXID specified in the unsigned transaction."
11:13 < sipa> is that not clear?
11:13 < jeremyrubin> but it's not really clear to me in the PSBT which data we've defined to allow that verification
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11:13 < jeremyrubin> how do we verify that? don't we need the entire parent TX to check that Outpoint(Txid(tx), i) == input.outpoint
11:14 < achow101> jeremyrubin: that's provided in the psbt
11:14 < achow101> as non_witness_utxo
11:14 < sipa> the entire parent tx is "the non-witness UTXO", which is a field in the PSBT
11:15 < jeremyrubin> ahh ok i see 
11:16 < achow101> anything else to discuss?
11:17 < michaelfolkson> 6 hour turnaround on #24530 from opening to merging? :)
11:17 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24530 | wallet: assert BnBs internally calculated waste is the same as GetSelectionWaste by glozow · Pull Request #24530 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:17 < michaelfolkson> Very small change admittedly
11:17 < michaelfolkson> But you seem like a quick merger achow101 :)
11:18 < achow101> #endmeeting
11:18 < core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
11:18 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Fri Mar 11 19:18:28 2022 UTC.  
11:18 < core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-03-11-19.00.moin.txt
11:18 < jeremyrubin> ah
11:18 < jeremyrubin> drats
11:18 < jeremyrubin> i was still typing a q
11:18 < achow101> oops
11:18 < jeremyrubin> can ask out of band 
11:19 < jeremyrubin> Well I guess the only other API oriented Q i have is that it seems like a lot of wallets don't support PSBT directly, and instead have some custom format and return signatures rather than updated PSBTs
11:19 < achow101> jeremyrubin: that's partially because most hwws predate PSBT
11:19 < jeremyrubin> fair
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11:19 < jeremyrubin> but e.g. jade seems to be this way
11:20 < achow101> some are starting to add psbt though, e.g. ledger
11:20 < jeremyrubin> yep
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11:20 < jeremyrubin> I guess the general question is API wise are we expecting PSBT supporting wallets to return a vector of signatures/witness data, or to directly modify and send back the PSBT
11:20 < sipa> the bitcoin core signing logic also works like that
11:21 < jeremyrubin> "that" =?
11:21 < achow101> jeremyrubin: if they take a PSBT, then return a psbt with sigs
11:21 < achow101> if they don't take a psbt, then whatever
11:21 < jeremyrubin> gotcha. 
11:21 < achow101> for example, walletprocesspsbt takes a psbt, and returns a psbt with sigs
11:21 < jeremyrubin> yes
11:22 < sipa> I mean... I expect PSBTs to work with PSBTs, and they'll quite possibly be written with code that internally uses a satisfier-like interface to construct signatures and whatnot.
11:22 < sipa> So my answer would be both, depending on what layer of the software you're looking at.
11:23 < achow101> I guess ledger is an exception because they can take a psbt but return sigs
11:23 < achow101> but that's a limitation of the hardware (not enough memory to store psbts)
11:23 < jeremyrubin> well currently the satisfier iface is doing something where we look at the psbt and finalize miniscripts
11:23 < jeremyrubin> v.s. look at psbt and create signatures
11:23 < achow101> I don't know anything about rust-miniscript and related
11:23 < jeremyrubin> i'm curious if it makes sense for signers to understand miniscript inherently
11:23 < sipa> that = Bitcoin Core's PSBT RPC is internally implemented with calls to logic that "signs"
11:24 < sipa> i mean... again API layer
11:24 < sipa> a PSBT signer can sign whatever it understands/likes
11:24 < jeremyrubin> well i guess my wondering is that if they don't have miniscript logic, then they can't know if a key they have is requested
11:24 < sipa> if that includes miniscript, it can sign PSBTs that involve miniscript
11:25 < sipa> @jeremyrubin That's not true, actually - you can sign without understanding 
11:25 < jeremyrubin> sure, it's valid to say anything can be in a different layer, i'm just trying to figure out really where the responsibility for these things should be. I could see a format where miniscript is not expected to be understood, but we'd need a "key extractor" that tells the signer which keys are in which input 
11:26 < jeremyrubin> and that would be "trusted"
11:26 < sipa> You can infer from PSBT fields (if it contains the necessary values added by an Updater), with which keys a signature is expected with
11:26 < jeremyrubin> PSBT_IN_TAP_BIP32_DERIVATION ?
11:26 < jeremyrubin> it's not clear that those are hints v.s. required
11:26 < jeremyrubin> e.g., if a key is within a gaplimit or something for the hww, i wouldn't need the derivation hint
11:27 < sipa> you don't need to trust it - if you agree with the transaction (whatever that means for you), you can sign with it - at worst, your signature is just invalid if it happens a signature with that key doesn't participate in that script
11:27 < sipa> sure?
11:27 < sipa> psbt is just a container format that conveys all information a signer potentially needs
11:27 < jeremyrubin> but that requires parsing miniscript to figure that out
11:28 < sipa> they may not need/use all of it, if they don't care about it
11:28 < jeremyrubin> "just a container" --> also a spec for roles to process it
11:28 < sipa> for the updater, yes
11:28 < sipa> for the signer, no
11:28 < jeremyrubin> s/the/a/g
11:28 < sipa> *updater
11:29 < sipa> one of the participants in the process must be an updated that understands the thing being signed, and a finalizer that does
11:29 < sipa> which means they can be relatively dumb
11:29 < sipa> but the signer can just use the information provided by the updater
11:30  * jeremyrubin (how apoas would work with this) OP_TOALTSTACK
11:31 < sipa> i mean... it all depends on what you want to sign
11:31 < sipa> signers can be restricted to only participating in scripts they understand/care about
11:31 < jeremyrubin> yes
11:31 < jeremyrubin> and if we want that, they would need to pull in miniscript?
11:32 < sipa> there isn't a spec for "all psbt compliant software must support X" - it's just a spec for communicating how the things they need for that
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11:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sstone opened pull request #24539: Add a "tx output spender" index (master...add-txospender-index) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24539
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11:33 < sipa> signers don't need to include miniscript code; they may still want to
11:33 < sipa> and even with miniscript support in the updater/finalizer, you're still restricted to miniscript-compatible scripts
11:33 < sipa> people may certainly care about signing for other non-trivial things too
11:34 < sipa> e.g. lightning htlcs?
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11:35 < jeremyrubin> so i guess at it's core for an API what you really want is something where you have a device driver that is PSBT in - PSBT out
11:35 < jeremyrubin> and then you combine the out with the in on the way back (or expect the signer is honest?)
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11:36 < jeremyrubin> and in implementing that interface, you're free to choose what amount of stuff happens between in and out
11:37 < sipa> yes, at the high level the protocol is roles that all operate solely on PSBTs
11:37 < jeremyrubin> tyvm
11:38 < sipa> implementations internally will of course do that in very different ways
11:38 < jeremyrubin> i think this gives me enough of a direction to make an interface
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17:42 -!- _cold is now known as cold
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18:05 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24540: ci: Integrate ccache into MSVC build (master...220312-ccache) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24540
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23:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] uvhw opened pull request #24541: Bitcoin-vn (master...bitcoin-vn) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24541
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23:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #24541: Bitcoin-vn (master...bitcoin-vn) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24541
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 12 00:00:23 2022