--- Log opened Fri Aug 12 00:00:47 2022
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01:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/27724c23f72b...89b219412495
01:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master daabd41 Vasil Dimov: net: simplify GetLocalAddress()
01:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 89b2194 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25814: net: simplify GetLocalAddress()
01:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25814: net: simplify GetLocalAddress() (master...simplify_GetLocalAddress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25814
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02:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #25828: [23.x] GUI backports (23.x...220812-23.x-gui) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25828
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03:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #25829: build: include share/rpcauth in release tarball (master...fixup_19081) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25829
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04:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/89b219412495...bf3f05f41d27
04:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4786959 Ben Woosley: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansion
04:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bf3f05f MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25785: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansi...
04:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25785: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansion (master...2208-bench-desc-🍉) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25785
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05:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] aureleoules opened pull request #25830: refactor: Replace m_params with chainman.GetParams() (master...2022-08-replace-m_params) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25830
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05:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] aureleoules opened pull request #25831: refactor: Remove trailing semicolon from LOCK2 macro (master...2022-08-macro-trailing-semicolon) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25831
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06:13 < bytes1440000> I see a need for "janitorial maintainer" who understands the importance of privacy in core and privacy of contributors. Since #25560 is still open and intent of reviewers doesn't look they want to improve anything in the process, there is no "call for maintainers" thing.
06:13 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25560 | [WIP] Add a MAINTAINERS.md file and desribe the role of maintainer more directly by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #25560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:14 < bytes1440000> I would prefer someone who has already contributed to bitcoin privacy and privacy in general, not living in first world countries and not funded by brink.
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06:16 < laanwj> ariard: thank you!
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07:26 < jnewbery> laanwj: Thank you for all of your hard work. Enjoy your retirement :)
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08:20 < lightlike> +1, thank you laanwj!
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09:00 < vasild> #proposedmeetingtopic vasild for a new maintainer with a focus on P2P/networking 
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09:01 < vasild> I volunteer, if there is a perceived need for that.
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10:18 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] 0xB10C opened pull request #25832: tracing: network connection tracepoints (master...2022-05-connection-tracepoints) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25832
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10:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] satsie opened pull request #25833: doc: minor updates to guix README (master...update-guix-readme) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25833
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10:57 < laanwj> jnewbery: lightlike: thank you!!! hehe, retirement
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11:12 < bytes1440000> vasild: thanks for volunteering and i think you are the best candidate for p2p/privacy. I wish we had one for mempool/privacy and wallet/privacy as well.
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11:13 < bytes1440000> I had one question after I looked at #25355 and some conversation with u/alreadybrunt on i2p subreddit. Java router and I am assuming C++ router as well has some limits.
11:13 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25355 | I2P: add support for transient addresses for outbound connections by vasild · Pull Request #25355 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:13 < bytes1440000> What if an attacker tries to establish outbound connections with your node from different i2p addresses out of max sessions. Didn't get time to test it.
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11:29 < vasild> bytes1440000: an attacker can easily do that even without #25355
11:29 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25355 | I2P: add support for transient addresses for outbound connections by vasild · Pull Request #25355 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:30 < vasild> with tor or i2p
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11:30 < vasild> I mean - open too many connections to a "victim" which cannot figure out that the many connections originate from one place
11:33  * vasild zZzZ
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12:01 < achow101> #startmeeting
12:01 <@core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Aug 12 19:01:21 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
12:01 <@core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:01 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack josibake jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier 
12:01 < achow101> paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
12:02 < furszy> hi
12:02 < achow101> There are no pre-proposed wallet meeting topics. Does anyone have any last minute topics to discuss?
12:03 < S3RK_> hi
12:04 < achow101> From yesterday's general meeting, it seems like we've decided to try to get #19602 for 24.0. The feature freeze is on Monday
12:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19602 | wallet: Migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #19602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:05 < S3RK_> I started reviewing this a long time ago, but lost all the context now. Need to start from scratch
12:05 < S3RK_> achow101 do you think we can get it reviewed by Mon?
12:06 < achow101> we may allow the feature freeze to slip a bit to get it in
12:06 < achow101> but probably not more than a week
12:07 < S3RK_> I'd imagine testing a big part of shipping this feature. What's the status with testing?
12:08 < achow101> I think reviewers have been testing manually
12:08 < achow101> there is also a functional test
12:08 < achow101> that tests several different scenarios
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12:09 < achow101> the rpc is also marked as experimental
12:09 < S3RK_> I agree it'd be great to have it 24.0 can only blame myself for not paying more attention to it
12:11 < S3RK_> I can spend some time on it from Mon. Probably can do either review or some manual testing. What do you think would be more helpful?
12:11 < furszy> should be more a "what might be missing" work than actual testing
12:11 < achow101> I think review would be more helpful
12:11 < achow101> the main thing is that legacy wallets can have some weird script scenarios that I might have missed
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12:12 < achow101> and manual testing probably won't get to those
12:12 < S3RK_> got it
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12:14 < achow101> is there anything else to discuss?
12:15 < S3RK_> one thing
12:15 < S3RK_> I thought maybe it could be interesting to do coin selection simulations for each release
12:16 < S3RK_> we do them for some PR which we think could have an effect, but sometimes the consequences are hard to predict
12:16 < S3RK_> do you think it'll be beneficial to just do checkpoints at release time? or maybe at some other interval?
12:16 < achow101> that could be interesting
12:17 < achow101> it would probably make sense to do one on the first rc of each release?
12:17 < S3RK_> yep. that sounds reasonable
12:18 < S3RK_> is there a checklist or something where we can add a bullet point?
12:18 < furszy> goal is bench speed/performance or the selection results?
12:18 < instagibbs> or feature freeze, in case you want to get a head start on a regression fix :P
12:18 < instagibbs> unless it's just informational
12:18 < S3RK_> catching a regression is definitely a part of it
12:19 < achow101> there's a release checklist in doc/release-process.md
12:19 < achow101> but this seems more like something that a wallet contributor remembers to do around release time
12:20 < achow101> it would be nice if we had an automated way to do simulations
12:20 < S3RK_> furszy: not speed, but rather effectiveness in terms of fees/utxo set/changeless tx
12:21 < S3RK_> for starters: a step in release process could be just to poke wallet maintainer :D
12:21 < S3RK_> ofc it'll be great to automate things. What are the challenges today? I saw achow101's optimizations got merged
12:22 < achow101> I think it's just a matter of doing it
12:22 < achow101> I know that josibake has a project that kind of automates simulations
12:22 < achow101> https://github.com/josibake/bitsie
12:23 < S3RK_> yep, I used it on a VM. Do you imagine just running simulation as a CI for each PR?
12:24 < achow101> I think that would be useful, but would probably have to be separate from our actual CI
12:24 < achow101> since they can take a really long time
12:25 < S3RK_> wouldn't we hit some limits in terms of CPU/jobs or run time?
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12:25 < S3RK_> sound heavy to run sims for all PRs
12:25 < achow101> yeah
12:25 < furszy> and there shouldn't be many PRs changing behavior there
12:26 < achow101> maybe something like the "guix build requested" label
12:26 < S3RK_> that's interesting
12:26 < instagibbs> yeah
12:26 < achow101> so we could just run it on the prs that would effect coin selection
12:27 < Murch> hi
12:29 < Murch> Yeah, that sounds interesting
12:30 < Murch> So far I've been running simulations manually, it would definitely be nice to get it automatically. How could we control how often it gets run though?
12:31 < Murch> Let's say if you spot a typo and forcepush to fix briefly after pushing, it shouldn't do the whole simulation twice.
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12:31 < Murch> Perhaps if we leave a few hours until kicking off the simulation and only run it for the latest version?
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12:32 < S3RK_> I like the idea with using a label to trigger the CI
12:32 < achow101> if we do it the same way that drahtbot guix builds work, then it's basically just triggered manually whenever the label is added
12:32 < achow101> the bot removes the label when it's done
12:35 < Murch> Who can add labels?
12:35 < achow101> anyone who has the permission
12:36 < S3RK_> hm.. is it a separate permission? I think I can't modify lables even for my PRs
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12:37 < achow101> it's a separate permission, but I think we give it out pretty freely
12:38 < S3RK_> it's good that it's separate
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12:40 < S3RK_> If nobody have more topics, I have one more thing about #25647
12:40 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25647 | wallet: return change from SelectionResult by S3RK · Pull Request #25647 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:40 < achow101> go ahead
12:40 < S3RK_> Murch pointed out a small issue with that PR
12:40 < S3RK_> at high fee rates LOWER_CHANGE won't cover change_fee
12:41 < S3RK_> I think easy way to fix that is to make LOWER_CHANGE dynamic = max(50000sat, change_fee)
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12:41 < S3RK_> any reasons why it's bad or won't work?
12:41 < S3RK_> sorry it's CHANGE_LOWER
12:41 < Murch> That sounds fine to me
12:42 < Murch> I don't think it'll be hit until well above 1000 s/vB anyway
12:42 < Murch> I'm not sure whether a change target that is exactly the fee makes sense, though
12:42 < Murch> maybe it should rather be fee+dust
12:42 < S3RK_> it's not change traget but rather CHANGE_LOWER
12:43 < S3RK_> then change target is calucalated using GenerateChangeTarget
12:43 < Murch> Ah right
12:43 < achow101> you could just change it to have that parameter include the fee?
12:43 < achow101> so m_min_change_target + m_change_fee
12:43 < Murch> Well, but it could still mean that if we roll a low value and match very closely, we would fall into the dust territory, right?
12:44 < S3RK_> I don't think it's possible. Given that dustRealy is 3sat/vb and we need to bump CHANGE_LOWER at fees about 1000sat/vb
12:44 < achow101> or rather GenerateChangeTarget should incorporate the change fee
12:46 < S3RK_> I like jsut adding m_min_change_target + m_change_fee 
12:46 < S3RK_> that's also very clean and simple
12:46 < Murch> +1
12:47 < S3RK_> I'll add a commit to ensure change_target is always higher than change_fee using achow101 suggestion
12:47 < S3RK_> thanks
12:48 < achow101> cool
12:48 < achow101> anything else to discuss?
12:48 < S3RK_> not for my side
12:49 < Murch> I've spent a lot of time thinking about #24362 recently, I think that we could probably move it towards merging or closing
12:49 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24362 | wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type by achow101 · Pull Request #24362 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:49 < Murch> I'm still on the fence
12:50 < Murch> right now fees are so low, I'd say close it and just match the legacy outputs, but in the long-term I do think that it would potentially create unexpected costs for users
12:50 < Murch> that is, not to merge it
12:50 < S3RK_> if you don't want to create legacy change outputs you shouldn't have a descriptor
12:50 < S3RK_> it's possible to deactivate a descriptor
12:50 < S3RK_> unless we're talking legacy wallets :D
12:51 < achow101> well legacy wallets are still a thing
12:51 < Murch> S3RK_: I think we have to operate under the assumption that most users will never change a config option or otherwise customize their wallet
12:52 < S3RK_> I can see why asking users to understand decsriptors could be too much
12:52 < Murch> And it might feel "more surprising" to a user that they suddenly sent themselves a legacy change output than the opposite
12:52 < S3RK_> but do you think it's too much for them to be aware what types their wallet supports?
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12:54 < Murch> Yeah
12:54 < S3RK_> it feels to me adding more special cases like this make wallet behavior opaque and unpredictable in a way
12:54 < Murch> I think that most users would probably be aware w
12:54 < Murch> of the type of outputs they use for receivling only
12:55 < S3RK_> this is already good enough
12:55 < Murch> S3RK_: "Special case" as in not matching the recipient with the change just for legacy, or "special case" matching recipient outputs in the first place?
12:55 < S3RK_> the first
12:55 < achow101> I think right now it's not a problem, and perhaps we could revisit this if users start complaining or we see a noticeable increase in legacy usage?
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12:56 < achow101> I would hope this becomes moot and legacy usage dies out
12:56 < Murch> achow101: Alright, then let's close it for now?
12:56 < achow101> sure
12:56 < Murch> Yeah, hopefully before feerates go up again, or at least when feerates start going up again…
12:57 < achow101> further proposals like josie[m]'s idea of using a different address type for change when the inputs match the recipients would also mitigate this somewhat
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12:58 < achow101> anything else to talk about in the last minute of the meeting?
12:58 < Murch> I like the idea (but then, it was mine :p), but I think it should only happen when we would use the given input set already for cost reasons until we have a better way to score privacy benefits in a numeric fashion
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13:00 < achow101> #endmeeting
13:00 <@core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
13:00 <@core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Aug 12 20:00:01 2022 UTC.  
13:00 <@core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-08-12-19.01.moin.txt
13:00 < S3RK_> thanks achow101
13:00 < Murch> Yeah, thanks :)
13:00 < S3RK_> Murch, how do folks control receiving types today? Is it possible to setup default in GUI?
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13:01 < Murch> I think it should be possible in the receive tab to pick the output type, yes
13:01 < Murch> And otherwise the default is currently bech32, afair
13:01 < S3RK_> then you can contorl change type there as well
13:02 < furszy> yep, there is a spin box there
13:02 < S3RK_> otherwise if you have an option to setup default, it would be a good place to also setup your defaults for change output types
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13:02 < S3RK_> I don't really see how recipient types and change types that much different
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14:05 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #24362: wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type (master...rm-legacy-change) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24362
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14:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] russeree closed pull request #24935: mempool: Add usdt event tracepoints and eBPF logging tool. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24935
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17:06 < bytes1440000> vasild: interesting. i never tested it.
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17:14 < bytes1440000> #24362 was closed which is good for privacy and some devs who were on "fence" doing personal attacks in pull request asking for evidence (was provided) should learn to behave or review a pull request. I don't need your permission in this repository to post something on mailing list and nobody has stopped you from sharing something or responding.
17:14 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24362 | wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type by achow101 · Pull Request #24362 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
17:14 < bytes1440000> Also some maintainers should learn doxxing someone is not expected from bitcoin core maintainers on github.
17:14 < bytes1440000> It might feel okay to bully some users however remember the ethics and "our goals" you want others to follow.
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