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joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:20 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:20 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23 -!- baakeydo1 [~baake@2001:41d0:203:b12c::] has quit [Quit: baakeydo1] 06:24 -!- baakeydow [~baake@2001:41d0:203:b12c::] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 06:46 -!- landryl [~quassel@ns528256.ip-192-99-10.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:05 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:10 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:16 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@77-174-98-73.fixed.kpn.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:17 -!- ___nick___ [~quassel@cpc68289-cdif17-2-0-cust317.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vidrobysh opened pull request #25866: fixed Belarusian (be) translation (master...be_language) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25866 07:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #25866: Fixed Belarusian (be) translation (master...be_language) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25866 07:26 -!- ghost43_ [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:49 -!- kouloumos [uid539228@id-539228.tinside.irccloud.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:03 -!- sudoforge [~sudoforge@wireguard/tunneler/sudoforge] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:05 -!- zyu [~zyu@89.208.247.114.16clouds.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:17 -!- zyu [~zyu@89.208.247.114.16clouds.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 08:18 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18 -!- ghost43 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Anywhere.] 10:21 -!- ___nick___ [~quassel@cpc68289-cdif17-2-0-cust317.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:06 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:07 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:12 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:15 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:19 -!- ___nick___ [~quassel@cpc68289-cdif17-2-0-cust317.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 11:21 -!- ___nick___ [~quassel@cpc68289-cdif17-2-0-cust317.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:21 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29 -!- ScoobyDooby [~ScoobyDoo@160-2-18-42.cpe.sparklight.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:30 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] llazzaro opened pull request #25867: lint: enable E722 do not use bare except (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25867 11:33 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:45 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:46 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@77-174-98-73.fixed.kpn.net] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [Closing Window] 11:52 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:57 -!- zyu [~zyu@112.65.48.167] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:00 -!- zyu [~zyu@112.65.48.167] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00 < laanwj> #startmeeting 12:01 < jarolrod> Hi 12:01 < achow101> hi 12:01 < hebasto> hi 12:01 -!- mode/#bitcoin-core-dev [+o core-meetingbot] by ChanServ 12:01 < jonatack> hi 12:01 < furszy> hi 12:01 < laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard b10c BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo 12:01 < laanwj> moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild 12:01 < lightlike> hi 12:01 < laanwj> welcome to the weekly bitcoin-core-dev meeting 12:01 < ajonas> Hi 12:02 < cfields> hi 12:02 < vasild> hi 12:02 < fanquake> hi 12:02 < michaelfolkson> hi 12:02 < laanwj> there have been two proposed meeting topics: 2022-08-11 21:32:46 hebasto #proposedmeetingtopic CMake-based build system (pr25797) 2022-08-12 18:00:23 vasild #proposedmeetingtopic vasild for a new maintainer with a focus on P2P/networking 12:03 < sipa> hi 12:04 < laanwj> might also make sense to discuss for the 24.0 milestone (instead of high priority for review) 12:04 < laanwj> #topic 24.0 milestone 12:04 <@core-meetingbot> topic: 24.0 milestone 12:04 < Murch> hi 12:05 < sipsorcery> hi 12:05 < fanquake> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A24.0 12:05 -!- zyu [~zyu@112.65.48.167] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:06 < laanwj> anything to add/remove there? 12:06 < sipa> #25717 is getting closer I think, with some discussed additions added (progress bar/logging), and some complexity removed and postponed to future changes if desired 12:06 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25717 | p2p: Implement anti-DoS headers sync by sdaftuar · Pull Request #25717 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:07 < laanwj> great! 12:08 < laanwj> ok if nothing else, let's move to next topic 12:08 < laanwj> #topic CMake-based build system (hebasto) 12:08 <@core-meetingbot> topic: CMake-based build system (hebasto) 12:08 < hebasto> hi 12:08 < hebasto> #25797 proposes the introduction of a CMake-based build system (CM, for short). 12:08 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25797 | build: Add CMake-based build system by hebasto · Pull Request #25797 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:08 < hebasto> The current benefits are outlined in the PR description. 12:08 < hebasto> As a reminder, the last such scale change was a switch from Gitian to Guix. The first Guix PR #15277 was in v0.19, but only v22.0 was the first Guix-built release. 12:08 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15277 | contrib: Enable building in Guix containers by dongcarl · Pull Request #15277 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:09 < hebasto> As for Qt, the Bitcoin Core project packages a GUI, and the GUI is a part of Bitcoin Core. As such, the move to Qt6 will be inevitable. A big motivation for the work on this change is to accommodate for the move to Qt6. 12:09 < hebasto> A comment in PR mentioned "bells and whistles". 12:09 < hebasto> Here is my personal motivation disclosure. 12:09 < hebasto> It is highly likely that my grandchildren will be accessing the bitcoin network using GUI-enabled software. And I'll do my best to ensure that it will be Bitcoin Core. 12:09 < hebasto> Here are the suggested questions for discussion now 12:09 < hebasto> 1. Are we open for a CMake-based build system (CM) in general? 12:09 < hebasto> 2. What is the preferred way to get CM into the repository: (a) a single PR with 100% feature parity, or (b) a series of incremental PRs? 12:09 < hebasto> 3. How long the old build system and the new one should co-exist / be co-maintained: (a) forever, (b) some release cycles, (c) switch from old to new at once? 12:09 < hebasto> that is it, let's discuss 12:10 < jarolrod> Concept ack on cmake, the introduction of this build system doesn’t mean we have to remove autotools now 12:11 < sipa> There has been a lot of (constructive, I think) discussion on this on the PR itself. 12:11 < sipa> Especially the last few hours. 12:11 < fanquake> I disagree that a switch from Gitian to Guix is similar to what is being proposed here. Gitian -> Guix was basically internal to our project, autotools -> cmake breaks everything all infrastructure outside project. 12:11 < fanquake> *all infra outside our project 12:11 < jonatack> sorry for late addition to the 0.24 topic, it would be nice to get #25614 in for the release in order to resume making progress on the parent PR, the original pull was opened on june 2 and it now has many ACKs (a hopefully-final re-push coming in the next few hours after I finish verifying building each commit, logging changes take a long time to 12:11 < jonatack> build) 12:11 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25614 | logging: add `-loglevel` configuration option and a `trace` log level by jonatack · Pull Request #25614 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 12:12 < jarolrod> fanquake: we don’t have to remove autotools now, and other infra can have time to adjust to cmake 12:12 < achow101> is it possible to have autotools call cmake internally? 12:12 < hebasto> achow101: yes, I guess 12:12 < achow101> to retain compatibliity with any downstream builders without having to actually maintain two build systems 12:13 < hebasto> Qt did so 12:13 < cfields> i also take issue with (and resent the implication) that an outside library forces our hand on our own infrastructure. I get that CMake is likely inevitible for us, but qt6 certinaly is not and imo that sets a terrible precedent. 12:13 < sipa> That seems hard, if cmake doesn't support in-tree builds? 12:13 < hebasto> cmake supports 12:13 < vasild> cmake does support in-tree builds 12:13 < hebasto> current implementation does not 12:14 < fanquake> jarolrod: I've mentioned on the PR that I'm not in favour of maintaining multiple build systems, at least certainly not over multiple releases. 12:14 < sipa> oh, i must have misread then 12:14 < jarolrod> cfields: i think hebasto was stating his personal motivation on working on this now 12:14 < hebasto> are in-tree builds so viable? 12:14 < achow101> does qt6 strictly require cmake for using it? 12:14 < cfields> jarolrod: he said that his motiviation stems from an inevitibility. I'm disagreeing with that. 12:14 < hebasto> * valuable 12:15 < hebasto> achow101: to get static builds -- yes 12:15 < laanwj> in-tree builds with cmake are extremely uncommon, everyene uses out-of-tree builds 12:15 < hebasto> ^ true 12:15 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:15 < sipa> I'm not convinced that in-tree builds are necessary to support, nor am I convinced that we necessarily need to make a compatibility layer that works autotools-like but invokes cmake. My point is that if we care about such compatibility, if it then doesn't support in-tree builds as autotools users expect, it is kind of pointless. 12:15 < vasild> yes, because it is so much straight-forward to just "rm -fr build" 12:16 < laanwj> vasild: right, for all intents and purposes they're superior 12:16 < sipa> If we make the choice to move to cmake, I think it's also fine to adopt some of the best practices and expectations that are common around cmake. 12:16 < cfields> agreed, the out-of-tree builds by default are a nice feature imo. 12:16 < laanwj> always use them for autotools builds too 12:17 < fanquake> In regards to 2. I think we need more feature parity before merging. i.e basics like a target for running the unit tests, generating installers etc 12:17 < hebasto> ^ agree 12:17 < fanquake> with the assumption that the rest would be filled in before the end of a release cycle. 12:18 < sipa> I'd say when we merge cmake, we should have (or have the strong expectation to do within the same release) guix builds working with it, as well as CI. 12:18 < fanquake> Yes, that would also be a requirement I think. 12:18 < jarolrod> ^^ that's reasonable 12:19 < vasild> hmm, I never managed to get autotools out-of-source builds work with and create proper compile_commands.json (created in a hackish way using bear(1)), so I use in-source-builds (uck!)... cmake can create compile_commands.json natively 12:19 < jarolrod> maybe reasonable is too loose of a word :) 12:19 < shiza> are you removing autotools? 12:19 < jarolrod> not in the proposed PR 12:20 < sipa> shiza: opinions appear divided on what the timeline for that would be 12:21 < shiza> have to remove? can't just let it rot? 12:21 < cfields> answered as framed? :) 12:21 -!- zyu [~zyu@112.65.48.167] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 12:21 < sipa> if it's not tested anymore, it should be removed 12:22 < sipa> if it's still tested, it can't be rotting 12:22 < fanquake> No. Because then there are very blurred expectations about what to fix or not, what feature parity to maintain. Things will break and degrade 12:22 < fanquake> It'll just be a prolonged migratory mess. 12:22 < fanquake> ^ in response to "let it rot" 12:23 < jarolrod> well if we write it off as such at the start, and people "dont care" maybe. But if we work on it, it wouldn't be a mess 12:24 < jarolrod> such as the example of the switch form gitian to guix 12:24 < laanwj> can't think of any reason to leave a 'rotting' build system, same reason not to leave unused code in, if you really need it you can always get it from git history 12:24 < shiza> Oh meeting in progress 12:24 * shiza leaves in shame 12:25 < sipa> I personally believe shortening the transition period as much as possible is better, and we shouldn't merge before it's clear that a short transition is possible. 12:26 < jarolrod> i also think there's a lot of holes in the discussion here, not sure what to discuss on timeline or anything, maybe revisit again in another meeting as there's more work done and people have had more time to think about this? 12:26 < sipa> I think it was very useful that hebasto posted a list of supported/unsupported features in the PR currently. 12:26 < sipa> That gives a substance to discuss. 12:27 < hebasto> definitely, the common make targets must be implemented first 12:27 -!- vasild_ [~vd@user/vasild] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:28 < sipa> vasild_: What's compile_commands.json? 12:28 < fanquake> sipa: what we use to run the clang-tidy checks and IWYU in the CI. Basically a .json file of the commands run by the compiler during compilation. 12:28 < cfields> ack, very helpful for llvm tooling like clang-tidy. 12:28 < vasild_> sipa: json db thah contains how each .cpp file is compiled - compiler + flags, is used for clang's semantic auto-completion 12:28 < fanquake> Currently we use a utility called bear to generate it, that intercepts the compiler 12:29 < sipa> ah, nice 12:29 < vasild_> sipa: I mean, it needs to compile the code to know better, compared to just a powerful grep + whatnot 12:29 < laanwj> yes it's a common standard for all kinds of project wide static analysis tooling, apparently 12:30 * cfields has just been adding make convenience targets *ducks* 12:30 -!- vasild [~vd@user/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:30 < cfields> joking ofc, automatic json output would be very nice :) 12:31 < laanwj> that works too 12:31 < shiza> not sure about bcha, but bchn builds using cmake 12:32 < vasild_> cmake has -DCMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS:BOOL=ON 12:32 < vasild_> natively 12:32 < laanwj> yes! 12:33 < laanwj> i think we've discussed everything for this topic let's move to next one 12:33 < vasild_> (which works regardless of whether in-tree or out-of-tree build) 12:33 < hebasto> thank you all 12:33 < laanwj> #topic vasild for a new maintainer with a focus on P2P/networking 12:33 <@core-meetingbot> topic: vasild for a new maintainer with a focus on P2P/networking 12:33 < vasild_> Two maintainers stepped down recently (sipa and laanwj) and there is no dedicated maintainer for P2P/networking. So I step in coz I think I can help the project in that way. That's it. 12:34 -!- vasild_ [~vd@user/vasild] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34 < laanwj> i think it would make some sense, you've been the most active in P2P development for quite a while 12:34 < jarolrod> concept ack, i think vasild_ is very qualified for such a role. And has contributed important changes to the p2p code. He also has done extensive reviews, and catching issues others don't catch 12:35 < michaelfolkson> +1 12:35 -!- vasild [~vd@user/vasild] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:36 * vasild was disconnected 12:36 < shiza> perfect timing 12:36 < hebasto> concept ack 12:37 < achow101> ack 12:37 < lightlike> ack vasild 12:37 < jonatack> a thought: the past few years vasild, laanwj, and myself have been working on or reviewing a large-ish chunk of net code that few others have been. i believe sipa knows the code well, too, along with (maybe) a couple others. laanwj has been merging these changes. so it makes sense to me that one of these would maintain. 12:37 < fanquake> re p2p/networking. Are you talking peer interaction / net processing, or lower level networking / sockets. Or both? 12:38 < vasild> Both 12:39 < vasild> but I think boundaries are fuzzy 12:40 < michaelfolkson> If there's no opposition from people here have vasild open a PR adding his trusted keys and see if there is any further discussion there? 12:40 < cfields> there were lots of concerns around process last time. have those somehow dried up, or are those people simply not here today? 12:41 < laanwj> there shouldn't be decisions made in the meeting anyhow 12:42 < michaelfolkson> It is a bit strange. There were concerns about process for installing a maintainer and then PRs got opened about what should be expected from maintainers once installed 12:42 < michaelfolkson> They seem orthogonal to me 12:43 < laanwj> yeah... 12:43 -!- Guest63 [~Guest63@37.111.201.32] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:44 < michaelfolkson> But there was discussion on the trusted keys PR for Gloria which I think was mostly productive. So doing that again for vasild seems like the way to go 12:44 < michaelfolkson> (if there is anything to discuss) 12:44 < cfields> agreed. i'm sure they'll speak up again there. 12:45 < vasild> So I guess I open PR and see what happens there? 12:45 < jarolrod> i hope we don't move towards too much bureaucracy with how the project moves/works 12:45 < jarolrod> ^ in relation to documenting the exact role of maintainers 12:47 < laanwj> sgtm 12:48 < laanwj> any other topics? 12:48 < jonatack> i have some ideas about maintainership standards that would be in the spirit of carrying on laanwj's style in a possibly more decentralized way, but that's for another day 12:48 < jonatack> ack vasild for me in any case 12:48 < laanwj> jonatack: +1 12:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] furszy opened pull request #25869: wallet: remove UNKNOWN type from OUTPUT_TYPES array (master...2022_fix_output_type_fuzz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25869 12:49 < laanwj> if nothing else, that concludes the meeting for today 12:49 < laanwj> #endmeeting 12:49 <@core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt 12:49 <@core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Aug 18 19:49:24 2022 UTC. 12:49 <@core-meetingbot> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-08-18-19.00.moin.txt 12:49 < michaelfolkson> Thanks! 12:51 * vasild zZzZ 12:55 < jonatack> (the "couple others" i was referring to above are dongcarl and cfields, but i'm not sure) o/ 13:04 -!- ___nick___ [~quassel@cpc68289-cdif17-2-0-cust317.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:08 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:13 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:24 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 13:35 < jeremyrubin> > there were lots of concerns around process last time. have those somehow dried up, or are those people simply not here today? 13:36 < jeremyrubin> simply not present; i had a real-world obligation today 13:38 < jeremyrubin> w.r.t. the docs being put forth, i'm not sure what document michaelfolkson is looking at, but the docs i wrote up were trying to handle the elements that were being discussed, and not orthogonal stuff. majority of the docs are around process for adding maintainers 13:39 < jeremyrubin> the point of "what maintainers do once installed" is that we had offered up people as scoped maintainers, as vasild is being proposed to be, and then it was clear that was not actually a defined thing, so the notion of a scoped maintainer is basically "undefined behavior" 13:40 < jeremyrubin> as such, a guide trying to document what an installation process is had to also do the lift of defining what the role people are being installed into is 13:41 < jeremyrubin> people balked at a new document containing both descriptive of status quo and new process, so those have been split up with #25839 being just a minimal description of what is done today 13:41 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25839 | [WIP] Minimal MAINTAINERS.md file by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #25839 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub 13:43 < jeremyrubin> i am personally strongly opposed to adding _any maintainer_ at this time, although i have minimal qualms with vasild, i dont think we are setting our project up for success by adding maintainers in the manner we are doing it presently 13:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a8f69541ad53...888628cee00c 13:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 416ceb8 w0xlt: descriptor: check if `rawtr` has only one key. 13:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 888628c Andrew Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25827: descriptor: check if `rawtr` has only one key. 13:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #25827: descriptor: check if `rawtr` has only one key. (master...expr_rawtr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25827 14:07 -!- brunoerg [~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:a9a2:24bf:6e1a:da04] has quit [] 14:17 < jeremyrubin> I've opened up a Call For Maintainer process here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25870 14:29 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:30 -!- _andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37 < michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: So you would like to consider jonatack as a possible alternative to vasild although you have minimal qualms with vasild. Ok I guess question to jonatack. Would you like to put your name forward as a possible alternative to vasild? 14:39 < michaelfolkson> jonatack has ACKed this 14:39 < michaelfolkson> If he had misgivings and thought he would be better for this role I doubt he would have ACKed it 14:44 < michaelfolkson> Ok so the 2 man band in the issue are fine with vasild but would like to propose jonatack as an additional maintainer after that 14:46 < michaelfolkson> So we're still in the position where vasild should open his trusted keys PR for further discussion there. And the two man band can propose jonatack for a maintainer role in the meeting next week where that can be considered/discussed 14:48 < michaelfolkson> (I actually agree that jonatack would be an excellent candidate for maintainer also but that wasn't the subject of today's meeting) 14:51 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:00 -!- Guest63 [~Guest63@37.111.201.32] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 15:11 -!- evanlinj1 [~root@gateway/tor-sasl/evanlinjin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12 -!- evanlinj1 [~root@gateway/tor-sasl/evanlinjin] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:28 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:29 < achow101> I do not think we should discuss any further on whether a particular person is a good fit for maintainer before they have stated that they are willing to be a maintainer 15:29 < achow101> as otherwise we may put undue pressure (in either direction) on that decision 15:30 < achow101> remember that maintainership is a position people volunteer for, not be appointed to 15:33 -!- Guest27 [~Guest27@58.97.230.246] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:33 -!- Guest27 [~Guest27@58.97.230.246] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34 < michaelfolkson> achow101: Agreed 15:44 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:46 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:50 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59 -!- kouloumos [uid539228@id-539228.tinside.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:08 -!- _apex2_ [~apex@dynamic-acs-24-144-190-15.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:17 -!- sipsorcery [~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:19 -!- ScoobyDooby_ [~ScoobyDoo@160-2-18-42.cpe.sparklight.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:19 -!- ScoobyDooby [~ScoobyDoo@160-2-18-42.cpe.sparklight.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:23 -!- ScoobyDooby_ [~ScoobyDoo@160-2-18-42.cpe.sparklight.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:30 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:37 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39 -!- bomb-on [~bomb-on@user/bomb-on] has quit [Quit: aллилѹіа!] 16:43 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:59 -!- mimmy [~mimmy@2604:a880:cad:d0::3e:1001] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:12 < jeremyrubin> Nominating is different from Volunteering someone -- for example if I said "who here thinks they are the best c++ programmer in Bitcoin", we'd probably dunning-kruger ourselves into the best person being too humble to put themselves out there. Smart people are shy oftentimes! A nomination process "who do you think is the best C++ programmer in 17:12 < jeremyrubin> Bitcoin?" invites more personality types to be put forward, and eliminates the social awkwardness of self promotion/confidence. 17:12 < jeremyrubin> If I ask who thinks they are the best c++ programmer, and then Alice says it is her, and Alice is popular, that might discourage Bob from tossing their name out because they don't want to challenge Alice. Or, maybe Bob likes Alice and wants to keep things nice between them. A nomination process + Q&A is superior because if someone -- anyone -- 17:12 < jeremyrubin> thinks Bob might be better than Alice, they can put the name forward for discussion without it being a challenge. 17:12 < jeremyrubin> Further, a nomination process doesn't preclude the idea that you can turn down a nomination, it is still a volunteer role. If you don't want to do it no one is pressuring you. This isn't harry potter and the goblet of fire after all! One can also ask a potential nominee if they would prefer not to be nominated before publicly nominating, if you're 17:12 < jeremyrubin> worried about social tact. 17:12 < jeremyrubin> I do not have a determination on if jonatack or vasild would be "better". 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