--- Log opened Thu Feb 16 00:00:45 2023
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01:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/54742532ce34...424fc603d86a
01:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9066314 Greg Sanders: s/transcation/transaction/
01:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 424fc60 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26997: psbt: s/transcation/transaction/
01:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #26997: psbt: s/transcation/transaction/ (master...transcation) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26997
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01:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/424fc603d86a...cbf511b3f4dc
01:42 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master aafa5e9 laanwj: Remove laanwj from trusted-keys
01:42 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cbf511b fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#27054: Remove laanwj from trusted-keys
01:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #27054: Remove laanwj from trusted-keys (master...remove-laanwj-key) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27054
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01:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #26731: test: add coverage for invalid parameter in `keypoolrefill` (master...2022-12-keypool-invalid-parameter) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26731
02:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 13 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cbf511b3f4dc...fb82d91a9c34
02:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 22c5b00 Antoine Poinsot: miniscript: satisfaction support
02:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f5deb41 Pieter Wuille: Various additional explanations of the satisfaction logic from Pieter
02:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4242c1c Pieter Wuille: Align 'e' property of or_d and andor with website spec
02:02 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24149: Signing support for Miniscript Descriptors (master...miniscript_wallet_signing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24149
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02:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #27107: doc: remove mention of "proper signing key" (master...remove_signing_key) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27107
02:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #26985: explicit `-d/--delete` argument for verifybinaries/verify.py (master...explicit_delete_arg_verifybinaries) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26985
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04:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fb82d91a9c34...3995c88e43a7
04:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5669afb sinetek: fs: drop old WSL1 hack.
04:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3995c88 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25898: util: remove WSL 1 workaround in fs
04:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #25898: util: remove WSL 1 workaround in fs (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25898
04:37 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #25523: build: Fail early and show actionable messages if autogen deps are missing (master...autogen-assert-deps) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25523
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04:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Hyunhum opened pull request #27109: Script explained (master...script-explained) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27109
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06:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3995c88e43a7...3a68e194f5e9
06:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 741908a Sebastian Falbesoner: test: previous releases: add v24.0.1
06:04 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3a68e19 merge-script: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26586: test: previous releases: add v24.0.1
06:04 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #26586: test: previous releases: add v24.0.1 (master...add_prevreleases_v24) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26586
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06:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3a68e194f5e9...98042a045693
06:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 304ae6d fanquake: doc: remove mention of "proper signing key"
06:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 98042a0 merge-script: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#27107: doc: remove mention of "proper signing key"
06:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #27107: doc: remove mention of "proper signing key" (master...remove_signing_key) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27107
06:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/98042a045693...437dfe1c26e7
06:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7a83aa0 brunoerg: test: add coverage for unparsable `-maxuploadtarget`
06:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 437dfe1 merge-script: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26714: test: add coverage for unparsable `-maxupload...
06:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #26714: test: add coverage for unparsable `-maxuploadtarget` (master...2022-12-maxuploadtarget-parse-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26714
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06:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/437dfe1c26e7...75f0e0b607cd
06:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c572eae Murray Nesbitt: update the freebsd build doc to reflect recent changes to DB4 install proc...
06:50 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 75f0e0b fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26773: doc: FreeBSD build doc updates to reflect rem...
06:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #26773: doc: FreeBSD build doc updates to reflect removal of install_db4.sh (master...use_db4_on_freebsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26773
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07:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to 22.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6fd35e2cb18d...a896f61290fb
07:43 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x c21e6a9 MarcoFalke: Add missing includes to fix gcc-13 compile error
07:43 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x ea584a6 fanquake: 23.x Add missing includes to fix gcc-13 compile error
07:43 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/22.x a896f61 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26927: [22.x] Backports
07:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #26927: [22.x] Backports (22.x...22_2_backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26927
08:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 6 commits to 23.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dd04f2dda5fa...0567787f5ef9
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08:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x fd94bef Martin Zumsande: hash: add HashedSourceWriter
08:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x 412cd1a Martin Zumsande: addrdb: Only call Serialize() once
08:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x 3987687 MarcoFalke: Add missing includes to fix gcc-13 compile error
08:02 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #26921: [23.x] Backports (23.x...23_2_backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26921
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08:41 < achow101> MacroFake: do you have a doc somewhere that contains all of your canned responses?
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08:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #27113: rpc: Use a FlatSigningProvider in decodescript to allow inferring descriptors for scripts larger than 520 bytes (master...decodescript-flatsigningprovider) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27113
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10:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/75f0e0b607cd...73966f75f67f
10:48 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a804f3c Seibart Nedor: wallet: extract and reuse RPC argument format definition for outputs
10:48 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c0ebb98 Seibart Nedor: wallet: add `outputs` arguments to `bumpfee` and `psbtbumpfee`
10:48 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4c8eccc Seibart Nedor: test: add tests for `outputs` argument to `bumpfee`/`psbtbumpfee`
10:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #25344: New `outputs` argument for `bumpfee`/`psbtbumpfee` (master...bumpfee-extra-outputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25344
11:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
11:00 <@core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 16 19:00:42 2023 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
11:00 <@core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
11:01 < brunoerg> hi
11:01 < kanzure> hi
11:01 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard b10c BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd 
11:01 < achow101> phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
11:01 < hebasto> hi
11:01 < pinheadmz> hi
11:01 < instagibbs_> hallo
11:01 < furszy> hi
11:01 < LarryRuane> Hi
11:01 < sipa> hi
11:01 < achow101> There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. Does anyone have any last minute topics?
11:01 < _aj_> hi
11:01 < sipa> (miniscript was merged, yay!)
11:02 < jonatack> hi
11:02 < instagibbs_> \o/
11:03 < achow101> #topic high priority for review
11:03 <@core-meetingbot> topic: high priority for review
11:03 < achow101> https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1
11:03 < Murch> Hey
11:03 < achow101> anything to add/remove/merge?
11:04 < pinheadmz> guess im chasing concept ack on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27101
11:05 < achow101> pinheadmz: added
11:07 < achow101> anything else to talk about?
11:07 < jonatack> #25325 may have been de-risked quite a bit by the fuzzing in #27011 (merged with significant cpu applied by sipa iiuc), have been running that patch for a few months, might be good to merge early enough in the release cycle once it has seen more acks
11:07 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25325 | Add pool based memory resource by martinus · Pull Request #25325 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:07 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27011 | Add simulation-based `CCoinsViewCache` fuzzer by sipa · Pull Request #27011 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:07 < _aj_> for anyone interested, inquisition's updated to 24.0 and now has PRs for op_vault and annex datacarrier open
11:07 < MacroFake> hi
11:08 < MacroFake> Can I have a topic?
11:08 < achow101> MacroFake: go ahead
11:08 < MacroFake> #proposedmeetingtopic copyright headers
11:08 < achow101> #topic copyright headers (MacroFake)
11:08 <@core-meetingbot> topic: copyright headers (MacroFake)
11:08 < MacroFake> So currently some files have headers, and others don't. Not sure what ppl think about this and what should be done, if anything
11:09 < MacroFake> Most cpp files have headers, but not all
11:10 < sipa> See #26817 ?
11:10 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26817 | doc: Remove copyright years (headers only) by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #26817 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:10 < MacroFake> sipa: No this is not about the years
11:10 < kanzure> do whatever maximizes the allowance for people to copy and distribute the files?
11:10 < MacroFake> It is about the header (at all)
11:10 < achow101> Is there a reason for either direction?
11:10 < sipa> Oh, ok.
11:11 < fanquake> achow101: one reason for removal could be that legally they are entirely pointless (still being debated), and just present maintenance burden
11:11 < sipa> I see the desire for avoiding the stupid (and apparently pointless) yearly dance of people wanting to bring the year numbers up to date.
11:11 < fanquake> the fact that we have never maintained any coherent policy around them also means they are likely further meaningless.  i.e files missing them, dates completely incorrect anyways etc.
11:12 < kanzure> "This code was written by some bitcoin developers in 2023. They still did that in 2023, even if you are in 2024!"
11:12 < sipa> I'm really not convinced that just dropping the years is the right thing to do legally (as I've commented in that PR). I'd be even more concerned about dropping the headers at all.
11:13 < fanquake> we also don't want some nonsense like, "you can't refactor a file until you figure out which dates need to get put into which files afterwards" etc
11:13 < MacroFake> Right, I am not sure if dropping the headers is good, but if there is value in them, shouldn't they apply to all/most files consistenly?
11:13 < jonatack> right. main point iiuc is whether that would de-risk (or increase it) WRT the absurd upcoming legal jurisprudence  
11:13 < MacroFake> fanquake: Yeah, not sure what to do about the years
11:13 < kanzure> generally speaking, it would be good to investigate better ways to preserve the open nature of the project, and copyright headers are only one tool in that shed
11:13 < kanzure> further improvements will not necessarily be forthcoming in a meeting without more legal knowledge present
11:14 < fanquake> I'm not advocating for removing headers, only dates, given we've got at least some legal opinions sayings that's perfectly fine, as they mean nothing 
11:14 < fanquake> no point deferring to non-lawyers software engineering opinions here
11:14 < sipa> I'd like to get actual legal advice about this (more than a fly-by comment from a lawyer who explicitly mentions they're not our lawyer).
11:14 < MacroFake> If ppl find it too risky, we can (1) de-bump the years, (2) Make the range -present, (3) or just close the pull.
11:14 < sipa> I can reach out to someone from BLDF?
11:14 < fanquake> sipa: yea, I think we can get some slilghtly more official
11:14 < MacroFake> I think at least for new files we can not add them?
11:15 < kanzure> (contributor license agreements may be more impactful, to the extent that they have any meaning, for contributors of new files)
11:15 < instagibbs_> things are copyrighted whether or not you claim copyright (but yes, ask for actual advice)
11:15 < sipa> From my understanding, we should definitely not have the copyright years for new files.
11:15 < MacroFake> kanzure: yeah, this is the actual topic I was trying to suggest :)
11:16 < MacroFake> Not sure how easy it is to set up a CLA, but I think we can approximate it with a CI check
11:16 < kanzure> i dunno, CLAs might have some wacky problem like CLAs not working unless there's an entity you license into
11:16 < achow101> I have no strong opinion, and a good lawyer could probably argue it both ways in court
11:17 < MacroFake> #27100
11:17 < furszy> why do they present a maintenance burden if they can (all) be updated by an scripted-diff once per yer? The PR shouldn't conflict with any other PR.
11:17 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27100 | ci: Add copyright header check by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #27100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:18 < MacroFake> furszy: Yeah, I don't think the maintenance burden is an actual goal to optimize for
11:18 < achow101> furszy: because numerous randos make drive by prs updating the years and that's extrmemely annoying
11:19 < MacroFake> So back to the CLA. We already have https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#copyright 
11:19 < sipa> I think the issue is mostly the meta-overhead of yearly discussions "do we really need these?".
11:19 < sipa> ;)
11:20 < furszy> k, then it's a layers question more than a devs topic. I guess
11:20 < fanquake> Also no point dancing some meaningless dance, if it's all pointless, and the existence of "copyright updating scripts" in this repo are just more random things up for pointless refactor and"improvements"
11:20 < fanquake> might as well nuke it all if possible
11:20 < MacroFake> furszy: About the years, I also raised the question, because *if* they are relevant, we wouldn't be allowed to legally bump them either?
11:21 < sipa> Maybe, I'm not sure.
11:22 < MacroFake> I think having copyright headers where possible could makes it harder for someone to violate copyright by accidentally submitting third party work as their own?
11:23 < instagibbs_> how does copyright lifetimes even work with multiple contributors?
11:23 < _aj_> get actual advice from an international copyright lawyer about whether removing the per-file notices or the years is okay, then, if it is, do it?
11:23 < instagibbs_> who has to die + 50 years before copyright expires :)
11:23 < _aj_> instagibbs_: depends which change you're copying
11:23 < achow101> instagibbs_: I think it works on a line by line basis
11:23 < achow101> probably character by character actually
11:23 < fanquake> probably with some garbage like the top of these files: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/packages/bioinformatics.scm?id=1b4f6286df13505cd17b3060fe4da7f03f39ba59
11:24 < sipa> i don't the speculation here is very useful
11:24 < sipa> *think
11:24 < instagibbs_> I was mostly joking
11:24 < fanquake> or at least, that's what the software engineers probably believe
11:26 < achow101> we should definitely consult lawyers, but even then, we probably won't know until some case involving copyright headers is actually tried in a court
11:27 < _aj_> even after one case, a different court can rule differently, especially if they're in a different country
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11:27 < MacroFake> I suspect you won't find a lawyer to give you an answer to rely on
11:27 < kanzure> kind of interesting how tricky it is to ~give away source code
11:27 < MacroFake> kanzure: The giving away part is easy. The not getting sued part, not so
11:27 < sipa> Also note that just winning any potential disputes in court isn't the necessarily the only goal. Avoiding legal action in the first place is pretty desirable too.
11:28 < MacroFake> sipa: Right
11:28 < _aj_> also, dealing with courts and lawyers is probably much more annoying that closing random spam prs and running a script once a year...
11:29 < jonatack> +1 on reaching out to BLDF
11:29 < achow101> any other topics to discuss?
11:31 < achow101> #endmeeting
11:31 <@core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
11:31 <@core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Feb 16 19:31:41 2023 UTC.  
11:31 <@core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2023/bitcoin-core-dev.2023-02-16-19.00.moin.txt
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11:32 < achow101> also, I'm cleaning up the meeting pings list. If you're not on it and want to be, let me know. likewise if you're on it and don't want to be.
11:32 < pinheadmz> <- not on it, want to be 
11:32 < pinheadmz> <3
11:33 < brunoerg> achow101: wanna be as well
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11:35 < kanzure> where did MarcoFalke go
11:35 < _aj_> he got faked by a macro
11:35 < sipa> :D
11:36 < kanzure> guess it's ok even if Marco != Macro
11:38 < jonatack> _aj_: congrats on bitcoin inquisition 24 and its op_vault and annex datacarrier PRs
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12:20 < ariard_> sorry for missing the meeting today, busy - would be good to land #25725 at some point
12:20 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25725 | consensus: Remove mainnet checkpoints by sdaftuar · Pull Request #25725 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #27114: p2p: Allow whitelisting outgoing connections (master...2023-02-outgoing-whitelist) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27114
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13:09 < MacroFake> [17:41] <achow101> MacroFake: do you have a doc somewhere that contains all of your canned responses?
13:09 < MacroFake> Sure, see pastebin: https://drahtbot.space/temp_scratch/templates.txt 
13:09 < sipa> The proper name for such a document would be "the can".
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23:59 < vasild> MacroFake: fwiw, at Oracle there was a similar discussion wrt copyright headers and whether they are needed given that there is a top-level COPYING. It was taken to the legal department and their conclusion was to keep it in each file and update the copyright years when files are modified (MySQL is under GPLv2). They explicitly disallowed my idea to automatically update all files on Jan 1 with 
23:59 < vasild> the current year (my logic was that changing the copyright year is a modification of itself which warrants the change of the year). Also FreeBSD has the header in each file e.g.: https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/main/sys/amd64/amd64/io.c
--- Log closed Fri Feb 17 00:00:46 2023