--- Log opened Thu Mar 09 00:00:05 2023
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01:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ekzyis opened pull request #27232: Use string interpolation for default value of -listen (master...use-string-interpolation-for-default-value-of-listen) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27232
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05:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/23e2bfcbc428...9985013350a2
05:49 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a981af4 Vasil Dimov: gui: use the stored CSubNet entry when unbanning
05:49 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4be57a5 Vasil Dimov: gui: fix comments for BanTableModel and BanTablePriv::refreshBanlist()
05:49 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9985013 Hennadii Stepanov: Merge bitcoin-core/gui#717: Use the stored CSubNet entry when unbanning
05:49 < bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #717: Use the stored CSubNet entry when unbanning (master...gui_unban) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/717
06:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #27233: refactor: Replace GetTimeMicros by SystemClock (master...2303-time-🎁) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27233
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07:40 < achow101> #proposedmeetingtopic host website using GitHub pages or similar
07:41 < vasild> amiti_: lightlike: addrman Select() can decide to randomly skip the address even if it has found it after a "long" search. In the benchmark from #27214 I observe that sometimes it can visit 3k (bucket,pos) before returning the address and sometimes it can visit 180k (bucket,pos)
07:41 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27214 | addrman: Enable selecting addresses by network by amitiuttarwar · Pull Request #27214 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:41 < achow101> #proposedmeetingtopic host release binaries using GitHub releases
07:43 < vasild> this makes it challenging to benchmark (and get meaningful results)
07:44 < lightlike> vasild: it works in a probabilistic way: it starts at a random bucket/position, then cycles through the rest of that bucket deterministically. But if it hasn't found anything, it will pick the next bucket at random again and do the same thing - so there is no "skipping" because the buckets aren't processed in a deterministic order.
07:44 < vasild> (the theoretical maximum size of addrman is 80k)
07:47 < vasild> lightlike: that too, but I am talking about this skipping:
07:47 < vasild> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/9985013350a249a26bbb5daa51c6af1572dbb202/src/addrman.cpp#L775-L776
07:48 < vasild> it is definitely a waste of resources if it visits the same bucket again, but this is a separate topic/issue
07:51 < vasild> anyway, my point is that benchmarking this is like benchmarking "sleep(random())"
07:52 < vasild> and yet, I want to see how much slower is the new code ;-X
07:53 < lightlike> shouldn't taking many samples and building an average still work though?
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07:58 < lightlike> If I remember correctly, the situation where we have just 1 address  of a specific network in an otherwise full addrman and query for that network, was slower by a factor of ~5 compared to the situation where we have just 1 address in an otherwise empty addrman and do a normal Select(). We thought the reason for that was that in the first case we additionally need to make many lookups to existing address, just to find out that their 
07:58 < lightlike> network isn't the one we want.
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08:10 < vasild> lightlike: you used the benchmarks from the PR?
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08:12 < martinus> When I configure with "./configure CXX=clang++ CC=clang --with-incompatible-bdb --enable-suppress-external-warnings" and then compile, I get a bunch of warnings due to the tracing macros, e.g. "validation.cpp:2379:5: warning: must specify at least one argument for '...' parameter of variadic macro [-Wgnu-zero-variadic-macro-arguments]". Does anyone else get this, or is there a way I can disable these warnings?
08:13 < lightlike> vasild: yes, I think so: AddrManSelectByNetwork covers the first situation (1 I2P, many IPV4), AddrManSelectFromAlmostEmpty the second one (1 IPv4, otherwise empty)
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08:16 < vasild> "shouldn't taking many samples and building an average still work though?" -- probably yes, I had to change the bench to: bench.minEpochIterations(300).run(... to achieve that, without that the results vary too much to drive any conclusion
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08:25 < lightlike> vasild: I didn't verify this yes, but are you sure that the other skipping is relevant to the bench tests at all? It's there to deprioritize selection of addresses that were tried recently or those that have failed attempts, but in the context of the bench tests I'd say neither of these should be the case: info.GetChance() should always return 1, and we should never skip addresses at this point.
08:26 < lightlike> *yet
08:28 < vasild> "are you sure that the other skipping is relevant" -- no ;)
08:32 < vasild> you are right, chance is always 1, that is irrelevant
08:39 < amiti_> oh!! great point about GetChance being 1 from the tests lightlike! 
08:39 < amiti_> "I had to change the bench to: bench.minEpochIterations(300).run" << yes makes sense, I was uncertain what the default config should be in the bench test, because I saw some of the "unstable results" on existing benches too.
08:41 < vasild> martinus: that is on master? I do not get any warnings
08:43 < vasild> martinus: as a workaround to sweep it under the carpet you can do: export NOWARN_CXXFLAGS="-Wno-gnu-zero-variadic-macro-arguments"
08:46 < martinus> vasild: yes on master, I've been getting that warning for quite a while now
08:51 < vasild> ENABLE_TRACING is not defined for me, this explains why I dont get any warnings, but CI should be running with -Werror and ENABLE_TRACING, no?
08:56 < martinus> the warning comes in /usr/include/sys/sdt.h:281:9: note: macro '_SDT_ASM_BODY' defined here
08:56 < martinus> #define _SDT_ASM_BODY(provider, name, pack_args, args, ...)                   \
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08:57 < martinus> maybe something changed in the linux kernel include, I'm on kernel 6.1.14-200 right now
08:57 < vasild> warnings from files in /usr/include are suppressed by default by the compiler itself even without our --enable-suppress-external-warnings
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09:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9985013350a2...f7bdcfc83f57
09:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3fa1185 willcl-ark: github: Switch to yaml issue templates
09:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f7bdcfc glozow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#27025: github: Switch to yaml issue templates
09:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow merged pull request #27025: github: Switch to yaml issue templates (master...yaml-issue-templates) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27025
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09:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge opened pull request #27235: Avoid integer overflow in CheckDiskSpace (master...2023-03-system-ub) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27235
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11:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
11:00 < kanzure> hi
11:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard aureleoules b10c BlueMatt brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge dongcarl fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jonatack josibake kallewoof kanzure kouloumos kvaciral laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr MacroFake Murch phantomcircuit pinheadmz promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa theStack vasild
11:00 < brunoerg> hi
11:00 < hebasto> hi
11:00 < Murch> Hi
11:00 < achow101> There are 2 preproposed meeting topics this week. does anyone have any last minute topics to add?
11:00 < furszy> hi
11:01 < pinheadmz> hi
11:01 < willcl_ark> hi
11:01 < jonatack> hi
11:01 < achow101> let's start with the usual
11:01 < achow101> #topic high priority for review
11:01 < achow101> anything to add/remove/merge? https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1
11:02 < pinheadmz> #27101 can be removed, concept is ACKed, waiting for review
11:02 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27101 | Support JSON-RPC 2.0 when requested by client by pinheadmz · Pull Request #27101 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:02 < achow101> pinheadmz: do you want to move it to blockers?
11:02 < pinheadmz> i thought blockers are for PRs that are blocking other PRs?
11:03 < achow101> blockers are for things that are blocking your work
11:03 < pinheadmz> theres no follow ups to that, so no. 
11:03 < achow101> including the "final" pr
11:03 < achow101> it's just generally the actual high priority for review list
11:04 < pinheadmz> ok then!
11:04 < pinheadmz> #27039 is also ready for review
11:04 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27039 | blockstorage: do not flush block to disk if it is already there by pinheadmz · Pull Request #27039 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:05 < achow101> you only get one on blockers
11:05 < pinheadmz> hahaha ok
11:05 < pinheadmz> blockstore then plz & ty ;-)
11:06 < achow101> done
11:06 < achow101> anything else to add?
11:07 < darosior> hi
11:08 < achow101> #topic host website using GitHub pages or similar (achow101)
11:08 < achow101> currently the website is hosted on a server administrated by someone who is no longer really involved in the project, and it occasionally stops working, requiring us to pester that person to fix it
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11:09 < jamesob> hi
11:09 < achow101> since the site is basically just static pages, I think it would make sense for us to move its hosting to a static site host
11:09 < achow101> one such possibility is github pages
11:09 < achow101> any thoughts on this?
11:10 < hebasto> content is static mostly, right?
11:10 < jamesob> (for high-prio) I guess #24008 would be my request (now that the au.complete PR has been merged, thanks to all involved)
11:10 < jonatack> Just to be sure, this site? https://bitcoincore.org
11:10 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24008 | assumeutxo: net_processing changes by jamesob · Pull Request #24008 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:10 < achow101> jamesob: added
11:10 < achow101> jonatack: yes
11:11 < jamesob> achow101: thanks
11:11 < pinheadmz> is the site being hosted in a certain country or on certain equipment or anything special like that for any reason?
11:11 < lightlike> if there are good alternatives, maybe it might makes sense to prefer one of those, so that if github should ever decide to kill the repo, at least the website would still be functional?
11:11 < jamesob> so the risk, IIUC, of having Github host that is that that site hosts sensitive files like expected binary checksums. But I guess the alternative risk is that we have to sort of trust whoever else would be hosting that site. And those files should be checked against signatures anyway
11:12 < achow101> pinheadmz: not that I'm aware of
11:12 < willcl_ark>  I did come across an issue related to SigStore recently which, if we moved to a more GitHub-based release process, could be worth integrating now that SigStore is up and running? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21524
11:12 < willcl_ark> (to kind of act as a checksum against whatever is being hosted by GH)
11:12 < willcl_ark> a cross reference, sorry
11:13 < achow101> jamesob: but those are protected by signatures, so I don't think it particularly matters?
11:13 < jamesob> I wonder if we could segment the general information on that site away from the even-maybe-sensitive file hosting; the former being easily hosted on GH
11:13 < jamesob> Although maybe-sensitive stuff might be subtle, e.g. hyperlinks to download certain files
11:14 < jamesob> but yeah in general achow101 I agree, everything should be checked against signatures anyway
11:14 < achow101> I think that would be trivial by having a subdomain for the binaries
11:14 < jamesob> yup
11:15 < pinheadmz> where would we host the binaries?
11:15 < jamesob> inscriptions ;)
11:15 < jamesob> jkjk
11:15 < achow101> that leads into the second (part of the) topic where I'm wondering whether we could switch to hosting the binaries on github itself?
11:15 < achow101> since there is a releases page where release binaries can be uploaded
11:16 < kanzure> having users trained to download and verify from another source might be better than hosting both code and releases on the same system
11:16 < jamesob> I guess that seems as good a place as any; we could also encourage people to use torrents
11:16 < achow101> the issue with release binaries currently is that only a few people can upload the binaries, and none of them are the current maintainers
11:17 < achow101> lightlike: I think there are decent alternatives, but github pages is definitely the lowest barrier to entry
11:17 < sdaftuar> achow101: can we give some of the current maintainers access to upload binaries to the current site?  
11:17 < jamesob> we could also link to alternative mirrors, like many linux distros do, hosted by well known individuals (a la DNS seeds)
11:18 < achow101> having mirrors would be good in general
11:19 < jamesob> I wonder if people who do the guix.sigs operation could optionally attach metadata declaring that they're hosting the binaries that they built... sounds maybe out of scope for this discussion though
11:19 < achow101> sdaftuar: maybe, I think someone has asked but got a noncommital response? or it's kind of annoying to setup?
11:20 < achow101> my understanding is that uploading binaries to the website is non-trivial process for whatever reason even though it seems like it shouldn't be that hard
11:21 < sdaftuar> if it's annoying to setup i think it's by design, to minimize the attack surface for rogue binaries being distributed from the official site due to someone being hacked
11:23 < sdaftuar> i would tend to think that having a secure site for distribution of our binaries makes sense? but given that the operational hassle falls on you and the other maintainers, it is tough or me to say what that process should be.
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11:23 < jamesob> one part of me is inclined to say "doesn't matter where you get it from, check the sigs" but the more pragmatic part of me knows that there are probably a lot of people who download and run without checking signatures
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11:25 < sdaftuar> yes i think that is undoubtedly the case
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11:26 < pinheadmz> in that case the *link* to download the binaries is also just as vulnerable
11:26 < pinheadmz> i.e. if we host the website on GH we mine as well host binaries there too
11:27 < jonatack> In general, it seems good to avoid increased integration with github (who likely want to increase project dependence on github by offering practical lock-in features) if anything else can be somewhat practical.
11:27 < sdaftuar> pinheadmz: yes i think i'd be nervous about that
11:28 < achow101> but also not hosting with github also raises other questions about who's owns the hosting and who's paying for it
11:28 < achow101> that is currently an issue which I actually don't know the answer to
11:28 < jamesob> achow101 right
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11:28 < willcl_ark> Would bitcoincore.org be fully deprecated (404) if we migrated?  
11:28 < achow101> willcl_ark: no, it would just be a dns change
11:29 < jonatack> Seems not unimaginable for github to, for instance, be requested by govt agencies to disallow access to our binaries by people in certain locations
11:29 < willcl_ark> OK great, was just wondering if both might co-exist for some time which could be confusing
11:30 < achow101> jonatack: that would be a problem with any hosting provider, whether that's a service or a person
11:30 < darosior> Would be good to know if there was a reason for having the website back when it was created, other than Github not being able to distribute binaries (or was it?)
11:30 < BlueMatt[m]> <achow101> "that leads into the second (part..." <- I'd think that's a really bad idea - github is already a huge potential target, and we've seen dev accounts for such things compromised (not bitcoin specifically, but generally). I'd prefer we do multisig binary upload on our own hardware.
11:31 < BlueMatt[m]> <achow101> "the issue with release binaries..." <- uhhh, i think its literally only one, we should change that tho!
11:31 < BlueMatt[m]> the issue is the vast majority of people will just download the binary they find first and run it with no verificaiton
11:31 < lightlike> achow101: sure, the thing is that if the website goes down, people could always use the repo as an alternative, and vice versa. If everything is in one place, likely both would be shut down at the same time.
11:31 < BlueMatt[m]> so any mirror we add needs to be carefully considered to ensure we can secure it
11:32 < BlueMatt[m]> given we now need to redo binary upload access with wladimir moving on, we should make it multisig like the rest of the website machine access is.
11:33 < achow101> BlueMatt[m]: it's mildly annoying that we have to poke you in order to make some website changes, or when it goes kaput
11:33 < achow101> afaik you are a required part of the multisig access currently?
11:33 < BlueMatt[m]> we should update the access list tho
11:33 < BlueMatt[m]> you dont, many others have access, its just that none of them can be bothered
11:33 < BlueMatt[m]> well, many others have access all via multisig
11:34 < BlueMatt[m]> nope
11:34 < BlueMatt[m]> its 2-of-N
11:34 < BlueMatt[m]> i think N is 5 but I'd have to check
11:35 < pinheadmz> how does that work? multisig ssh ?!
11:35 < BlueMatt[m]> yep!
11:35 < pinheadmz> dope.
11:37 < BlueMatt[m]> anyway, if y'all get an updated access list with yubikeys and ssh keys we can redo the access set and give an intro to how it works.
11:37 < pinheadmz> how about the DNS / DNSSEC ?
11:37 < achow101> BlueMatt[m]: cool, will chat on signal about that
11:37 < BlueMatt[m]> what about it? yes, dnssec is on?
11:37 < pinheadmz> how many people can change the A records ?
11:38 < pinheadmz> are the dnssec keys held privately?
11:38 < BlueMatt[m]> sg
11:38 < BlueMatt[m]> I'll explain to the access list folks when we get there :)
11:39 < achow101> if the current maintainers can get access to the existing infra, I guess the topic is moot?
11:39 < achow101> anything else to discuss?
11:39 < jonatack> I'm willing to do website content changes, if helpful. Was doing that for a few years for optech and the review club.
11:40 < BlueMatt[m]> i mean we can revisit the infra, but probably best to first explain how it works on signal or so and then we can chat about if something else is better. I'm more than happy to build something better, but I'm not sure "github" is really that :/
11:40 < BlueMatt[m]> jonatack: fwiw this is a separate access list, that's just the github repo with pgp sigs via the existing core maintainer tools.
11:40 < BlueMatt[m]> the sigs are checked before going live
11:42 < achow101> #endmeeting
11:45 < jonatack> Seems like a good reminder to host a mirror of the binaries (and the git repo?), say, on tor/i2p/cjdns
11:47 < fanquake> martinus: there is an issue open for what your are seeing, re warnings
11:50 < fanquake> clang-16+
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12:02 < andrew_mo_> Do I have my timezone wrong?
12:03 < andrew_mo_> yup I def do
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21:16 < martinus> fanquake: ah right, there's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26916
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 10 00:00:06 2023